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Taryn Ceridwen
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2008.05.09 07:55:00 -
[31]
There has been no communication from Master Tao for over a month and no dividends or payments on either of his ventures in two months. One of the reasons I invested in this plan was that I understood the plan was secured by a Damnation BPO locked down by Ricdic & CRA here
My question therefore is what happens if Master Tao does not reappear? Who takes the decision and responsibility for liquidating and distributing said security? When should this decision be taken? After 3 months, 6, 12?
I've been a regular reader of this forum for some years now and to my recollection such a situation has not arisen before and so I am interested to see what the consensus is.
I am not callin SC** at this point as I think it is still too soon to jump to that conclusion but unfortunately it does Master Tao's credibility no good to be so silent with his investors.
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Raskor
Crossflow Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.05.09 14:05:00 -
[32]
I've been thinking the same thing. He appears to have dropped off the map completely and is now a full 2 months of payments behind. So at what point do we petition Ricdic to liquidate the security and repay the investors?
Note: I'm not advocating a liquidation at this time, but would be interested in a discussion as to when would be an appropriate time. 3 months behind? 6 months?
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2008.05.18 21:52:00 -
[33]
Yup, I have 6bn in SYDR and 4500 SYDI shares so I'm starting to get a little worried.
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2008.05.19 02:07:00 -
[34]
I have all those assets that were being used as security. Let's give him another week before we start liquidating
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Taryn Ceridwen
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2008.05.19 12:03:00 -
[35]
Thanks for the response Ric, it's reassuring to know you are still in control of the assets and willing to liquidate when, and if, necessary.
Personally speaking I'm willing to give this more time and am not in a tremendous rush to write it all off just yet.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.05.20 17:57:00 -
[36]
I'm in no real rush.
I am actually more curious than anything else - given the securities and the initial dividends, I don't think MasterTao set out trying to scam, so I'm wondering what happened to him.
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:47:00 -
[37]
Yeah ditto, not really worried (secured assets anyway!) just kinda surprised tbh.
I'm really not fussed if we wait another couple of months, as long as I know its not going the way of FRPB (which has cost me about 25bn isk....)
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2008.05.23 14:41:00 -
[38]
Yeh well the assets are definetly there. I must say I would be partially responsible for this (at least initially) as there was a considerable delay whilst I had that POS bug in effect.
However since that point I can't see any further contact I have had with MasterTAO.
Happy to wait as long as you guys are comfortable waiting.
Alternatively EBANK are happy to offer a 100% buyback on SYD/SYDI shares for anyone wanting to get out rather than wait. We can fund the costs and have them returned when assets are sold or MasterTao returns. Contact me ingame before sending any shares if you want to do this.
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Sofitia Mourtos
GALAXIAN
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.11 18:31:00 -
[39]
 Originally by: EBANK Ricdic
Let's give him another week before we start liquidating
Ok guys, is it not about time that we do something about this ?
I can not recall how the collateral thing is setup, but my weak memory tells me that he put in more collateral than he received in investment (?).
What is the best/fair way to do it ?
Here is my suggestion.
1. Hire Ray (or another trustworthy person) to handle the liquidating, in return for e.g. 5% of the liquidated amount. This way Ricdic does not have to do much work - He offered to secure the collateral (which he has done), not handle liquidation and any other labor intensive activity.
2. Buy back the shares for the issued value + 5% for each month that this have been out of order.
3. Any surplus isk is refunded to MasterCao (who is proberbly inactive).
How does this sound ?
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Xantheris
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.11 19:05:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Sofitia Mourtos
How does this sound ?
As a shareholder this sounds good to me.  |
Tarun Thred
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:32:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Sofitia Mourtos
Edited by: Sofitia Mourtos on 11/06/2008 19:40:27
Originally by: EBANK Ricdic
Let's give him another week before we start liquidating
How does this sound ?
Sounds fine to me but I would think that as the person entrusted to hold the collateral Ricdic should be making the final decision on this.
tt
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Sofitia Mourtos
GALAXIAN
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:17:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Sofitia Mourtos on 12/06/2008 23:17:16
Originally by: Tarun Thred
I would think that as the person entrusted to hold the collateral Ricdic should be making the final decision on this.
I sort of agree - however I think that he should take shareholders opinions into consideration, and the above post is mine.
It has been what 5-6months now, personally I like my isks invested into something that works rather than just sitting idle in a defunct ipo.
Take my post as a call to Ricdic to start doing something with the colatteral - before he himself goes inactive ;-)
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Taryn Ceridwen
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2008.06.13 07:05:00 -
[43]
Ric has already stated that he is willing to go along with shareholder wishes in this matter.
As a minor shareholder in the three different SYDI projects I vote that we begin the liquidation process.
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2008.06.13 07:19:00 -
[44]
I am going nowhere soon.
I done a bit of research on SYD and SYDI
I will try and clear it up here :
SYDI - 25 billion isk operation. Secured with a Damnation BPO (which was valued at about 18b by MasterTAO)
IPO Share Price = 100k per share
EBANK Buyback Price = 100k per share
----------------------------------------------------------
Bond - 6 billion isk operation. Secured with freighter bpo's. There should be 6000 shares valued at 1 million isk each
Bond Price = 1m per share
EBANK Buyback Price = 1m per share.
------------------------------------------------------------
As securities we aren't here to provide interest to people on these bond/ipo offerings. This 100% offering is simply to buyback any outstanding shares at cost price. Now, if you want to hold onto your shares until MasterTAO comes back you can do so. The Damnation BPO at least won't be sold in the meantime. We will give TAO some time to return, but continue to buyback investors shares in these operations.
In order to subsidise that loss to EBANK, we have hired someone to handle production on the Damnation BPO so we can basically continue to action the buyback at no/minimal loss to ourselves. We also don't believe MasterTAO has scammed so aren't too quick to sell off his goods.
Unless someone can determine a reason as to why we should be paying above 100% then our 100% buyback offer will remain.
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2008.06.13 07:25:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Taryn Ceridwen
As a minor shareholder in the three different SYDI projects I vote that we begin the liquidation process.
Are you sure there are three?
I have found :
SYDI - Damnation BPO
SYDR - 6 freighter bpo's
I might have missed something though as I didn't have a whole lot of time to try and figure out what was what today.
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Xantheris
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.13 10:27:00 -
[46]
So is EBank going ahead and buying back shares? If so can you please list the procedure for any shareholders that would like to sell their shares. |
Raskor
Crossflow Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:39:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Raskor on 13/06/2008 16:45:01
Edited by: Raskor on 13/06/2008 16:43:25
Originally by: EBANK Ricdic
I am going nowhere soon.
SYDI - 25 billion isk operation. Secured with a Damnation BPO (which was valued at about 18b by MasterTAO)
IPO Share Price = 100k per share
EBANK Buyback Price = 100k per share
So are you saying this venture was not 100% secured?
In the original thread, I understood this to be actually 3b of public investment over secured by the Damnation:
Shares-
The Corporation will be created with an initial share of 250,000 Valued at 25b in total. 30,000 shares will be available for purchase by public @ 100,000 each, which will raise 3b in isk. I shall a stake by investing 4b isk and locking the production of a Damnation BPO and value it at 18b (real value of around 25b) for a total of 22b in stake.
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2008.06.13 19:24:00 -
[48]
Yeh I was hoping someone else would shed a bit of light on the issue. My buyback at 100% tells you it was 100% secured, or at least I am willing to cover it at that value as that's the value I was led to believe, but he had that many SYD/SYDI/SYDR/Bond alternatives that I got really confused.
If the BPO is over-secured, then there is nothing saying he can't just provide the shares he holds in order to get his damnation back once this is all cleaned up.
But the important thing right now, how many operations was he running? What were their names, what's the share name, and please provide linkage. It looks like there was one with poor response so it was closed and two more took it's place. |
Marcus Baltar
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Posted - 2008.06.13 21:27:00 -
[49]
Okay, been looking at this as I have some SYDI and SYDB shares.
SYDI and SYDB shares are the shares issued from this thread; 250,000 SYDI for the corporation at 100,000 ISK each, 6,000 SYDB for the bond/loan at 1,000,000 ISK each. No idea how many of the SYDI were actually sold to the public, only 30,000 were supposed to have been.
Not sure what the SYDR shares are as I have none - I presume these are from the freighter IPO? Anyone confirm this? Is it this one?
Now, the SYDI shares were issued on the understanding they were growth shares, ie. no dividends. However the SYDB issued at the same time were promising dividends of 3.5% per two weeks for four months, ie. 28% return over four months. Only one payment of 70,000 per bond/loan share has been made on 2008.03.04 17:06.
Going from RESX dividend records, neither of the two listed corporations, SYDI and SYDR, have paid dividends - expected for SYDI.
That is what I have found so far - think this is all accurate, please post any corrections that you know of.
As BPOs are held for both corporations as security then I think that the possibility to parially liquidate is available, at least to the value of the BPOs. How this would be possible is a problem if no access to the corporate wallet shareholders list is available. I suggest the following;
I imagine it would require a trusted third party to hold the funds from the BPO sales and then people transfer shares to them for the agreed value, all the while keeping a record of who transferred how many. Then if access to the corporate wallet is later available (return of the CEO, or some as yet unknown way) then these additional funds can be distributed, or the shares returned if the corporation continues, or both.
If liquidation is occurring then I feel that the bond/loan (SYDB) should be paid out in full first, as in real life.
Also, if EBANK is going to start producing off of the security Damnation BPO then they should be paying the profits on that to SYDI as it is still their property until a liquidation is decided. Another point; if they want to buy the shares from the market at 100,000 ISK then it is not a buyback, but speculation/general trading. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.13 22:19:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Marcus Baltar
Also, if EBANK is going to start producing off of the security Damnation BPO then they should be paying the profits on that to SYDI as it is still their property until a liquidation is decided.
Here, let me get your a tissue to wipe up that unsightly saliva dripping from your honeyed, yet mistaken, tongue. Part of the actual agreement, for eBank's involvement in brokering the arrangement, was that research and production could be done. You didn't think eBank did this for free did you? How else did you expect to get interest returns on your deposits? Ebank is willing, as Ricdic said, to honor our agreement. We are willing to honor our position as securer to the full tune of the bond not just part of it. I'm sure if we were more glib with our tongues or more adept at spinning things we could come up with some sort of justification for short changing the investors. Oh, wait... we don't do that and that is why we were doing this in the first place. Or why we have so much of your money already. It is not in our best interest to replace the manager of this bond. He's not here, poof he's gone. Dunno why, I hope he is okay. You are getting your investment back plus whatever dividends you did receive while it was paying out. For myself I'll tell it to you simply, this is not up for discussion or debate. We are not CSM members to cajole or bully. You all know just how sympathetic I am to popular opinion so truly told, why not just take the deal that is being fairly offered and stop trying to get more than you are entitled to have in the circumstances. tl;dr - We are going to do right by our word as securer as we see fit, not as your wildest dreams would have us do. |
EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2008.06.14 00:17:00 -
[51]
So much aggression Shar.
I am willing to find a fair ground to meet with the SYDI & SYDR investors. If the BPO is oversecured then maybe we can move a little more than 100%, however it has to be carefully considered as MasterTAO could easily request we buy back all those shares he is holding causing us to result in a considerable net loss. I can't picture him doing this however so the risk is minimal.
Shar's points cover EBANK on a legality issue (MasterTAO did authorise allowance of research & production on his prints however the plan was for him to do these things through the corporations himself so there was no direct agreement that EBANK would be the ones handling production for personal gain etc).
Consider it this way. EBANK are looking to close off these two corporations. We don't want to action liquidation of the Damnation BPO as it is in effect a "unique" item. It can't just be replaced off the NPC market like those freighter bpo's can (being auctioned here). If/when MasterTAO comes back I would rather have the print available to him if possible.
Now, he may not return for 3 months or 2 years for all we know. If EBANK actioned a buyback plus had to leave the bpo idle that would mean funds earning nothing whatsoever, a considerably poor investment. In the interests of meeting our minimum returns we have someone handle production which covers those costs and gets the corporations closed off and finalised.
Sharing of profits off the bpo can't happen. We aren't continuing to run his corporation, we are shutting it down permanently. Securities are generally there to secure your investment, not an investment plus interest. Without knowing how many shares were truly sold, and/or if MasterTAO will come to EBANK asking for a buyback on his portion of the shares, we have to be careful how much we are forking out in returns.
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Taryn Ceridwen
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2008.06.14 07:16:00 -
[52]
I have shares / bonds listed in my wallet for three Synergy Development operations, namely:-
Synergy Development Invention and Production (SYDI) Linkage
Synergy Development Research (SYDR) - Part of above IPO 'division 1' of his overall operation
Synergy Development Bond Holding Corp (SYDB) Linkage
As Marcus has said SYDI was always a growth IPO and did not pay dividends, whereas SYDR and SYDB were both issuing dividends.
Once it is decided how to proceed I will happily transfer shares in all 3 operations to whoever is nominated.
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2008.06.14 07:23:00 -
[53]
I think the best bet is I pay 100% of value on each share and keep a spreadsheet detailing who sent me those shares. This way if MasterTAO returns he can fairly compensate his investors.
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Taryn Ceridwen
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2008.06.15 09:58:00 -
[54]
Which character would you like the shares sent to?
For the record I am perfectly happy with the generous buy back offered by Ric / Ebank. Producing from the locked down print would seem a fair reward for shouldering the responsibility of refunding investors and essentially turning a failed public venture into a secured private loan between MasterTao and Ebank.
Please accept my thanks for offering this buy back.
Best wishes
Taryn
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Marcus Baltar
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Posted - 2008.06.16 14:30:00 -
[55]
Originally by: EBANK Ricdic
So much aggression Shar.
Okay, you are taking possession on the security - as you say, the option to produce off of it was not yours, so to do this you must be regarding it forfeit. Therefore this is surely a forced liquidation? So the Damnation BPO should be sold on the market, and openly, to get the most value? Any money raised should then be divided amongst the shareholders.
This should not be a problem - I am sure that someone could easily handle this - the money raised can be divided by the 250,000 shares (less the six billion to cover the bond). As these (shares and bonds) are handed and recorded to the liquidators their is value returned. As 220,000 are supposed to be in the corporate wallet that would mean that liquidators would retain around 86% of the cash until such time as MasterTAO returned.
In general I do not have a problem with the offering you are making. What worries me is that the shareholders assets (the Damnation BPO) is being used to make a profit while the shareholders receive nothing. Especially as, unless substantially more shares were sold than advertised, it is being used to cover only three billion in public shares (and six billion in bonds/loan) meaning the excess money belonging to the shareholders is in limbo.
What also needs to be sorted is what shares are being bought?
SYDR shares (10,000 @ 1,000,000 ISK)- those relating to the freighter BPOs which are already for sale? (link)
SYDI shares (30,000 of 250,000 @ 100,000 ISK) - those relating to the Damnation BPO (link)
SYDB bonds (6,000 @ 1,000,000 ISK) - those also relating to the Damnation BPO (link)
Player Stock Exchanges;
Eve Galactic Stock Exchange (EGSE) & Real-time EVE Stock Exchange (RESX) |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.16 14:43:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Marcus Baltar
What worries me is that the shareholders assets (the Damnation BPO) is being used to make a profit while the shareholders receive nothing.
This is where the confusion lies. The Damnation BPO was never, ever, a shareholder asset. The only asset that belonged to the shareholders, at any point and time, was isk. You received shares as vouchers/receipts of your isk as proof of your investment. However you invested in Mister Tao's project which was not, I might add, anything related to the Damnation BPO. This BPO was held by us as security to indemnify this bond. This means if the bondholder absconded or disappeared we would pay back the isk that this bond issue generated. We would use the Damnation BPO to soften our own liabilities if the bond was defaulted. Might I also add this point: This is not a liquidation. Though everyone is trying to be nice in the face of no information several payments have been missed. This means the bond is in default and the security option is being exercised by the underwriter. The only thing the investors are entitled to is to receive back cash in equal measure to that which the underwriter, eBank, guaranteed the bond. A liquidation would be something else entirely and would likely be open for discussion. It would also not include the Damnation BPO as it would be held in trust until the liquidation concluded. Right now, this matter is not up for debate. The bond is undeniably in default. We as the underwriters are attempting to inform the investors of this bond about what we are going to do, formulate a plan of how to go about it, and that is pretty much it. In truth, your only real choice is this: Do you turn in your bonds for compensation of this failed bond or do you keep them? Either way I don't care really. Choice #1 is our obligation to you, choice #2 is your choice and keeps isk in our pockets.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Xantheris
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.16 14:49:00 -
[57]
So... is EBank going ahead and paying back bondholders who do want to get out? Or is it still being discussed, formulated, etc, etc?
I'd just like to know if I can send in my shares and get cash back anytime soon...
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Marcus Baltar
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Posted - 2008.06.16 14:58:00 -
[58]
Originally by: MasterTao
Loan(Bond)
6b will be raised as loans in form of bonds. 6000 blocks at 1m each will issued. These have a payout of 3.5% twice a month with a maturity of 4 month. A limited buyback of 95% of initial offering will be availble at end of every month. A seprate corporation will be created to distribute the bonds.
Shares-
The Corporation will be created with an initial share of 250,000 Valued at 25b in total. 30,000 shares will be available for purchase by public @ 100,000 each, which will raise 3b in isk. I shall a stake by investing 4b isk and locking the production of a Damnation BPO and value it at 18b (real value of around 25b) for a total of 22b in stake.
From the original document here.
Which means, how I read it, that MasterTao has bought 220,000 shares using 4 billion cash and the BPO.
Player Stock Exchanges;
Eve Galactic Stock Exchange (EGSE) & Real-time EVE Stock Exchange (RESX) |
Ricdics
Corporate Placement Holding
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Posted - 2008.06.16 15:33:00 -
[59]
Ok guys Ricdics will be the point of contact regarding these shares. I would like any MasterTAO bond/share holders to evemail Ricdics with precisely what shares they are holding along with the corp ticker.
I will then respond (as they come through) with directions as to sending them.
Insured Research and Production Services
Queues |
EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2008.06.16 15:34:00 -
[60]
Confirmation to anyone that doesn't know that Ricdics is one of my family of characters. I refuse to call him an alt as he probably has more SP than most of MD combined 
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