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Irrational Exuberance: Rise of the Tiny Bond

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Shadarle	Posted - 2008.01.03 17:47:00 - [1] It seems we are in a new period of Irrational Exuberance marked by a new trend. People have become more suspicious of larger IPO's lately, which has been good. In the place of large IPO's we now have a lot of tiny bond offerings popping up. I can't even count how many there have been in the last two weeks now. The amazing part is that almost every single one of the has been released by a totally unknown person. People seem very willing to trust these small bonds as they are such little amounts of money. But if you add them all up it becomes a decent amount of ISK. Even somewhat shaky bonds, offering a mere 5%, from an unknown person with unknown abilities and no established trust, are getting people to buy into them instantly. Irrational Exuberance is back and this time it's gone bite sized! Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.03 17:49:00 - [2] I think I've counted 3 in the last 24 hours alone. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Meleil	Posted - 2008.01.03 17:50:00 - [3] I'm just gonna sit back and watch the show. This bubbles gonna burst baby and you know it. ~Mel
Daeva Vios Ares Arms and Modules LLC	Posted - 2008.01.03 17:55:00 - [4] Definitely exciting times!
Myrdyr	Posted - 2008.01.03 18:03:00 - [5] I'm starting a business based on preying upon poorly defended legitimate IPOs. Anyone interested in investing, or do you guys think that too many of the new IPOs are scams?
Daeva Vios Ares Arms and Modules LLC	Posted - 2008.01.03 18:47:00 - [6] I will invest ten thousand Gallentean dollars, roughly equivalent to 10 isk. Tell me where to send the suitcase!
jongalt	Posted - 2008.01.03 18:47:00 - [7] myrdyr, theres only one (1) score you should be setting your sights on (if yer a scammer). if you can pull it off, well, that would be a feat worthy of John Dillinger's name. other than that, there isnt much that hasnt been done before. you are better off being legit (in the long run). -jg.
Myrdyr	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:20:00 - [8] I think you misread my post. I have no interest in scamming, I am interested in parting legitimate IPOs from their isk through legitimate game mechanics. Basically a power brokerage matching mercenaries to under-defended assets.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.01.04 00:03:00 - [9] Originally by: Minerva Vulcan I think I've counted 3 in the last 24 hours alone. I think one of those was the 1.5B loan at 10% I ended up filling. Let's just say that his main had such a solid record as to warrant a collateral-less 1.5B loan, plus he threw in some collateral. So the riskiest looking at a glance was the only one I ultimately decided warranted investment, oh and it's at 10%. I would call this good investing, not irrational exuberance. That said, there's been a lot of ISK flowing into low return and low security shares and we may well be seeing a return of irrational exuberance. ___________________________________________ 5% Mining Implants & 5% Manufacturing Implants *From 110M to 150M
Assens Letta Hunerian Science Institute Pax Atlantis	Posted - 2008.01.04 00:18:00 - [10] Edited by: Assens Letta on 04/01/2008 00:19:36 Originally by: Shadarle It seems we are in a new period of Irrational Exuberance marked by a new trend. People have become more suspicious of larger IPO's lately, which has been good. In the place of large IPO's we now have a lot of tiny bond offerings popping up. I can't even count how many there have been in the last two weeks now. The amazing part is that almost every single one of the has been released by a totally unknown person. People seem very willing to trust these small bonds as they are such little amounts of money. But if you add them all up it becomes a decent amount of ISK. Even somewhat shaky bonds, offering a mere 5%, from an unknown person with unknown abilities and no established trust, are getting people to buy into them instantly. Irrational Exuberance is back and this time it's gone bite sized! i think this new trend is based on ppl understanding that its easier to set a bond operation than a actual IPO, most corps that did this recently (and in am speaking from HUNSI POV and from what i think other corps POV's may be) probably want a fast income of isk in order to do some expandion or to start a small business (market exposure is also an option). That is better suited for a bond operation than a true IPO, IPO means that shareholders own a part of your corp and that they expect dividends (altough it reduces NAV its a good way to make it a looked up share unless youre a "daytrader" if there are ppl doing that in eve exchanges ofc). In my oppinion a IPO should be sold out on a small percentage of the business, allowing for time to expand,to gain market credibility and then to sell more stocks creating more funds for the corp, that ofc takes time etc etc and some ppl dont want to run that kind of business, thus the bond is a loan out to the comunity. lets see if the bubble burts, in time it all helps the market to be more aware of the ups and downs and of the trust capital each person has, pretty much as in RL.
Leowen Industrial Giants	Posted - 2008.01.04 02:36:00 - [11] There's another factor - too much spare ISK. EVE is becoming more ISK-saturated with every passing day, and inflation is almost non-existent. We therefore have lots of people sitting on billions of ISK and little to do with it. The killing-off of the T2 BPO's hasn't helped. These were actually something of an ISK-sink, as they took free cash from the hoarding industrialist, and put it in the hands of the extravagant consumer who then blew it on faction stuff. Simplistic I know but in many cases this was exactly what happened - Joe Industrialist saved all of his ISK, bought T2 BPO from Lucky Devil, who splurged the ISK on random stuff. Now Joe Industrialist is still making lots of ISK from his accumulated investments, but has nothing to spend it on. So we now have lots of people like me with way too much spare ISK floating around, and no real outlet for it. I don't want fancy ships, and there's precious little worth investing in these days. Cap Ship BPO? Pfff. I'd suggest the ten most cash-rich people in EVE are holding close to 1 trillion ISK cash right now. Just the top ten.... Leo
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.01.04 04:08:00 - [12] Edited by: Shadarle on 04/01/2008 04:08:39 Originally by: Leowen I'd suggest the ten most cash-rich people in EVE are holding close to 1 trillion ISK cash right now. Just the top ten.... Leo I don't know if I agree. Anyone smart enough to make hundreds of billions would be smart enough to not have hundreds of billions sitting in their wallet. The person with the most money sitting idle in their wallet is likely not even close to the richest player in the game. So perhaps you are right... but if so then it's a really bad state of affairs. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2008.01.04 04:40:00 - [13] Well, although I recently asked for a 2bill loan on these very forums, I would agree that there is an increase in smaller investments rather than the big investments I was used to seeing here. In my case, however, I'm willing to secure the loan using my assets. I think my name and history are good enough but then again I have a biased opinion about myself ---------------------------------------------- Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way.
Asteroid Bandit NOPHEX PRISIM	Posted - 2008.01.04 06:10:00 - [14] This is not irrational exuberance. That would imply a far more fermented stock and investment system than we currently have in place. I would contend instead that we are in the Gilded Age of EvE. What we are currently seeing in the vast wealth of industrial tycoons funding a wide array of startups and the rising wealth of an EvE "middle class" (multi billionaires) investing out of ability. However there is still so much exclusivity to investing in EvE that this trend is confined to an elite class. In keeping with this analogy you could even call the investments in so many small startups a form of philanthropy. Although I dread making any comparison to RL, economic trends would lend credence to a future crisis of confidence in EvE after enough of these small investments fail and larger ones scam, which you could call a crash (though I doubt anyone will be throwing them selves from windows).
Shuan Jedai Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.01.04 09:35:00 - [15] If scammer can't get away with one big scam, several smaller ones might still provide nice amount of ISK.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.07 02:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Shuan Jedai If scammer can't get away with one big scam, several smaller ones might still provide nice amount of ISK. not if everyone takes more than the few seconds it takes to find who to send the isk to Trashed sig, Shark was here
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.01.07 03:01:00 - [17] Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 07/01/2008 03:02:17 Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Shuan Jedai If scammer can't get away with one big scam, several smaller ones might still provide nice amount of ISK. not if everyone takes more than the few seconds it takes to find who to send the isk to Well at least you're consistently stupid....there are these things called alts. You can create several of them, move them into major corps for years so they look like real players but never train them up or just buy a few for under 10B, pull the scam and sell them off to recoup the cost. Not that that's what I think is happening lately, just saying SiJira is an idiot and on the road to being the new Ufl. 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Trilori Caldari GearBox Fleet Svcs	Posted - 2008.01.07 06:24:00 - [18] Edited by: Trilori on 07/01/2008 06:24:17 Originally by: Kwint Sommer Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 07/01/2008 03:02:17 Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Shuan Jedai If scammer can't get away with one big scam, several smaller ones might still provide nice amount of ISK. not if everyone takes more than the few seconds it takes to find who to send the isk to Well at least you're consistently stupid....there are these things called alts. You can create several of them, move them into major corps for years so they look like real players but never train them up or just buy a few for under 10B, pull the scam and sell them off to recoup the cost. Not that that's what I think is happening lately, just saying SiJira is an idiot and on the road to being the new Ufl. SiJira doesn't seem to resemble UFL at all, seems to resemble Riethe; Riethe is able to provide and respond to questions properly and so does SiJira UFL can't even do that intellectually. Just my observation...
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.07 06:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Trilori SiJira doesn't seem to resemble UFL at all, seems to resemble Riethe; Riethe is able to provide and respond to questions properly and so does SiJira UFL can't even do that intellectually. Just my observation... /me reaches for the draw in the kitchen containing the tinfoil... Or they could all be the same person and the changes in "personality" is all but a ploy of social engineering and misdirection. Just saying, cause its all just as likely as anything else. Hell they could all be my alts. --
Liisa Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2008.01.07 07:12:00 - [20] Originally by: Shadarle Edited by: Shadarle on 04/01/2008 04:08:39 Originally by: Leowen I'd suggest the ten most cash-rich people in EVE are holding close to 1 trillion ISK cash right now. Just the top ten.... Leo I don't know if I agree. Anyone smart enough to make hundreds of billions would be smart enough to not have hundreds of billions sitting in their wallet. The person with the most money sitting idle in their wallet is likely not even close to the richest player in the game. So perhaps you are right... but if so then it's a really bad state of affairs. There are at least three distinct business types in eve. Those who make isk for the sake of making isk, those who make isk in order to fund other things and a mix of the two. The first type will always reinvest in order to push the profits even higher. The second and third type reach a point where the business they run throws off so much isk that they cannot see the point in expanding it anymore as they make more than they will ever be able to spend on their other interests. The excess isk just piles up after a while and might just reach the "hundreds of billions" given enough time. To call them "not smart" because of this is narrow minded. Signature Your signature exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches
Trilori Caldari GearBox Fleet Svcs	Posted - 2008.01.07 07:50:00 - [21] Originally by: Treelox Originally by: Trilori SiJira doesn't seem to resemble UFL at all, seems to resemble Riethe; Riethe is able to provide and respond to questions properly and so does SiJira UFL can't even do that intellectually. Just my observation... /me reaches for the draw in the kitchen containing the tinfoil... Or they could all be the same person and the changes in "personality" is all but a ploy of social engineering and misdirection. Just saying, cause its all just as likely as anything else. Hell they could all be my alts. Multiple personality disorders, yes I know thats a real possibility. You are right, you could be any one of them with the way you go around insulting me tough luck.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.07 08:00:00 - [22] Originally by: Trilori Originally by: Treelox Originally by: Trilori SiJira doesn't seem to resemble UFL at all, seems to resemble Riethe; Riethe is able to provide and respond to questions properly and so does SiJira UFL can't even do that intellectually. Just my observation... /me reaches for the draw in the kitchen containing the tinfoil... Or they could all be the same person and the changes in "personality" is all but a ploy of social engineering and misdirection. Just saying, cause its all just as likely as anything else. Hell they could all be my alts. Multiple personality disorders, yes I know thats a real possibility. You are right, you could be any one of them with the way you go around insulting me tough luck. No intended insult, and if you percieved it that way I am sorry for having not made myself clearer. I was just pointing out that without any substantial proof of any kind there exsist all sorts of intresting potential interconnections of alts, based on observation and conjecture. --
Trilori Caldari GearBox Fleet Svcs	Posted - 2008.01.07 08:10:00 - [23] Originally by: Treelox Originally by: Trilori Originally by: Treelox Originally by: Trilori SiJira doesn't seem to resemble UFL at all, seems to resemble Riethe; Riethe is able to provide and respond to questions properly and so does SiJira UFL can't even do that intellectually. Just my observation... /me reaches for the draw in the kitchen containing the tinfoil... Or they could all be the same person and the changes in "personality" is all but a ploy of social engineering and misdirection. Just saying, cause its all just as likely as anything else. Hell they could all be my alts. Multiple personality disorders, yes I know thats a real possibility. You are right, you could be any one of them with the way you go around insulting me tough luck. No intended insult, and if you percieved it that way I am sorry for having not made myself clearer. I was just pointing out that without any substantial proof of any kind there exsist all sorts of intresting potential interconnections of alts, based on observation and conjecture. Nothing personal, no sorry I didn't make myself clear. I didn't find any of this insulting, but with the fact that you have gone to insult me in another thread and in an ingame you very well could be any of the alts; UFL remember him? :P True I agree that there are the myraid of alts/personalities. I don't think UFL is Riethe or vice versa; but then again who do I know around here? Thats just my opinion.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:12:00 - [24] Edited by: Ricdic on 07/01/2008 10:13:33 Trilori you need to step back a bit mate. You are like one of those people who just found out about MD and the financial sector that you are jumping on things and even trying to undermine people who have been dealing in here for years. It's like an apprentice telling the chef how to cook a steak. You remind me a bit of myself. When I first started with investments (about 2 years ago) I jumped head first into things without knowing a whole lot about the industry. I bought GPSx shares 500% above IPO price, and bought into ventures willy nilly. It wasn't until getting burnt a few times before I slowed down. Now Treelox has been around for a long time. Back when C-R-A was starting (1.5 years ago) he sat down with me and helped write out my business plan giving me advice on how to handle things etc and even to this day he is always around to give advice. Whilst he may not run any public ventures, or broker any funds etc he is seasoned and he has earnt mine and many other's trust through consistency. I don't want to attack you Trilori but you are a new fish in these waters. You really need to get back into your place as you don't realise it is a discredit to yourself with some of those posts. If you are as headstrong as I was/am you will ignore this advice anyway edit: Sorry Trilori this post was meant in some other thread where you and Treelox were going head to head. I can't be bothered moving it but I am sure you will both see it either way http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Tatania Apparition	Posted - 2008.01.07 12:19:00 - [25] Originally by: Trilori SiJira doesn't seem to resemble UFL at all, seems to resemble Riethe; Riethe is able to provide and respond to questions properly and so does SiJira UFL can't even do that intellectually. Just my observation... Anyone who's anyone knows that Riethe = Vedz
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.07 12:54:00 - [26] Originally by: Tatania Apparition Anyone who's anyone knows that Riethe = Vedz Are you being sarcastic? Vedz is a Ufl alt. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Tatania Apparition	Posted - 2008.01.07 13:43:00 - [27] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Tatania Apparition Anyone who's anyone knows that Riethe = Vedz Are you being sarcastic? Vedz is a Ufl alt. I thought so at first too, but Vedz seems a lot more... together... than Ufl and his alt army do, even if they do spew a lot of the same filth.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.07 13:57:00 - [28] Hard to say who's who anymore with the alt-fest that is the forums. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.01.07 14:31:00 - [29] Originally by: Minerva Vulcan Hard to say who's who anymore with the alt-fest that is the forums. This has always been true since before launch. Just every so often you get those few talented people that come along and think they've discovered something new to beat to death with a stick. Think of it like teenagers. Whatever "x" activity is it is only something new to them. For us it's the same old same old with the chance of a new variation here and there. Ho hum. "Be all you can be" is a motto even idiots and jerks live up to... all to often.
Mr Horizontal Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.07 14:44:00 - [30] Catch 22. MD needs fresh ISK influx, but like all nouveau riche, the yuppie mentality kicks in with all the arrogant and ostentatious overtones too.

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