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Danjira Ryuujin
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.01.04 10:37:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Danjira Ryuujin on 04/01/2008 10:37:50
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Yeah inline and amarr dont go together in one sentence.
I hope that was intentional.
Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005 |
Compton'Ass Terry
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Posted - 2008.01.04 11:25:00 -
[32]
Oh lord, i go in a thread about black ops battleships, and i end up getting rickroll'd
To be as evil or perhaps even more evil as that. I'm going to say you've all just lost the game.
As to the question why there's no blackops flying around? They're not ships to be flown as a day to day ship, just like capitals, they are to be used in some situations only. Add that to the fact that they're hugely expensive for a pvp ship.
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Teyrala
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.01.04 11:28:00 -
[33]
I saw one (widow) a few days ago, haven't seen any more.
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2008.01.04 12:21:00 -
[34]
Originally by: annoing NO, this is the real reason why Black ops will never be truely popular in Eve under current conditions.. shame on Eve
The irony is what you posted this immediately below. ---- Anything less is wasted effort |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.04 12:27:00 -
[35]
I have invented sin bpc's, have the skills to build them, fly them (actualy can fly all of them), even have materials handy to build them but... I fail to see myself wanting to hop into one atm The lack of covert ops cloak is the main reason... but that wouldn't be that bad if at least you could jumpbridge more ppl.... Not to mention that the redeemer and panther are impossible to fit without most faction modules (low cpu) and even then you should end up with an empty highslot even with the lowest grade t2 guns Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. ... - Cortes honestly now... the sig is 25k :S |
Kaaii
Caldari Kaaii-Net Research Labs
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Posted - 2008.01.04 12:29:00 -
[36]
Ive been flying my widow for several weeks now. Used it to bridge corpmate with about 60B in prints to lowsec, very handy for that....
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
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R3aliti
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Posted - 2008.01.04 13:12:00 -
[37]
ROFL, I bought and trained the Jump Drive skill to LVL 5 about two years ago and it has been sitting there unused. Now I see a future use for it. The real humor here is when I bought the Jump Drive skill it was 82 million. I looked today it is now going for 9 mill NPC. LOL - DOH
Going for a SIN.
R3
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Ace Garpy
Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.01.04 13:30:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kaaii
Ive been flying my widow for several weeks now. Used it to bridge corpmate with about 60B in prints to lowsec, very handy for that....
Great that's one use.....A freighter
Just some of my thoughts. Positive feedback also welcome.
Since you already need a Force Recon to allow it to jump into a system (thereby negating the need for another espionage vessel) the jump itself is pretty useless.
It's weak. Worse than a Scorpion and much, much more expensive to operate. So you wouldn't want to engage another enemy vessel in it particulary?
It's slow. Covert Ops need to be quick and nimble to avoid trouble and to find the enemy. That's what recce is all about.
Where would a fleet commander find any use for it?
Is it a Battleship or is it a Covert Ops?
It would only be vaguely useful if it could jump without the need for a cyno field. Even then I would prefer the Covert Ops (Buzzard) receive this ability.
The Knight said - Oh that is an excellent story of payback, international romance, and James Bondery |
Raneru
Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny
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Posted - 2008.01.04 13:49:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel I'm getting a little nervous. My scientist character invented two 5-run Panther BPC and the first built one will pop out of the oven tomorrow. I am worried that it will not sell. I haven't seen much in the way of market activity for any of the Black Ops ships. A few of the earliest ones sold here and there for 800 mil or so, and the market history is dead since then.
Do I have a half-billion dollar albatross on my hands? Myself, I won't be able to fly one until April or later.
Thats a great marketing tactic! Have you sold them all yet?
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Aneu Angellus
Caldari DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.04 14:03:00 -
[40]
But, you turn your cloak on and its insta MWD! ________________
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000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2008.01.04 14:13:00 -
[41]
Meh, it's a new ship so eventually i want one, why? Just because i can... This is eve, just because u can is enough of a reason. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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MasterEnt
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Posted - 2008.01.04 14:16:00 -
[42]
Well.. I am ahuge Cover/Black Ops pilot and I am major tirned off by the Black Ops BS not supporting Covert Ops cloaks of all things.
Me No use for 800mil.
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Scrubologist
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Posted - 2008.01.04 14:24:00 -
[43]
IMO, CCP is introducing Black Op's ships in an "underpowered' mode, having been burned so many times with new ship introductions that were overpowered.
They'll balance the ships a little better once they realize how poorly the ships sell and how little use they're getting in the game.
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Saladin
Minmatar Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.01.04 14:50:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Saladin on 04/01/2008 14:51:29
Originally by: lofty29 Just a few days til I can use the bridge
The bridge has some amazing graphics, and its the same size as the one the titan generates.
I think the ships are in need of some serious changes, but I don't forsee a un-nerf before summer.
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Agent Li
Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.01.04 14:54:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel I'm getting a little nervous. My scientist character invented two 5-run Panther BPC and the first built one will pop out of the oven tomorrow. I am worried that it will not sell. I haven't seen much in the way of market activity for any of the Black Ops ships. A few of the earliest ones sold here and there for 800 mil or so, and the market history is dead since then.
Do I have a half-billion dollar albatross on my hands? Myself, I won't be able to fly one until April or later.
Build one for me, and I'll pay you for the cost of materials. ------------------
Please note: No Windows System files were harmed during the creation or deployment of this patch. |
Carinus
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Posted - 2008.01.04 14:58:00 -
[46]
I was really interested in the Sin when it first came out. After the "Ohh Ahh!" factor wore off though I realized I'd have no use for it at all as a replacement for my Domi.
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L0st S0ul
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.01.04 15:01:00 -
[47]
It would be nice to be able to check them on this site, am I searching wrong or CCP can't be bothered to update ship database ? -----------------------------------------------
Come on you apes, you wanna live forever?
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Carinus
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Posted - 2008.01.04 15:07:00 -
[48]
Originally by: L0st S0ul It would be nice to be able to check them on this site, am I searching wrong or CCP can't be bothered to update ship database ?
If past experience is anything to go by it will be updated in a couple of years.
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Kaaii
Caldari PixelJuice Design Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.01.04 15:31:00 -
[49]
Yea, its a definite let down.
Mine was relegated to corp BPO moves, of which it does excel. A cyno alt outside a station, a corpmate in a pilgrim, and about 2k of fuel, can drop 100's of billions worth of BPOs anywhere in range. For the mere price of about a 1/2 a billion in ships....
And yes, the animation for the bridge is very cool, eye candy for the win....
I still would like to see the ability of the black ops cyno generator to be fired anywhere. I wrote a nice post about it, but i can't find it now. There were some arguments as to using it like I did, in empire (high sec) but, since its pretty much invulnerable to ganks for moving precious prints, in low sec, i don't see that it would matter much if you added it to high sec as well. I think they would be used alot more in empire wars then.
They are very slow. You can speed it up some by putting poly rigs on, and nano/I stabs, but, i can't see it entering combat anyway. IT would be mostly to just get away....like we need more of that in game ...
The weapons systems are sorely lacking, but its (widow anyway) a very good EW ship, with nice bonuses there. I still haven't had the nerve to take a ship with 1/17th the shields into a combat sitituation, that a carrier would do, at just twice the cost of the BO ship.
And the portal generator is wicked expensive, uses like 12k of zyd to build. I guess the designer of that has toons in the drone regions...
Its new, so maybe in time they will release the choke hold on it, and allow it some real combat capability. I don't mind it being expensive as much as I mind it only being used in null sec, where a carrier and cyno alt can do the same thing it does (carrier bay increase) dropping ANY class ship in the rear instead of the weakest of the recon's.
I was very excited about these ships when they were announced. But like the latest craze up and CCP HQ, its good for subscriptions, not actual game play..
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
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Refazed
Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.01.04 15:38:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Kaaii
Ive been flying my widow for several weeks now. Used it to bridge corpmate with about 60B in prints to lowsec, very handy for that....
careful. If that becomes popular they'll nerf its ability to bridge ships with cargo.
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Anton March
Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.01.04 15:39:00 -
[51]
Saw a Widow on scanners in Syndicate yesterday, but that's the only one I've seen so far.
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Saladin
Minmatar Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.01.04 15:50:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kaaii
And the portal generator is wicked expensive, uses like 12k of zyd to build. I guess the designer of that has toons in the drone regions...
See this is actually not a problem at all. All in all, the cost to build is only 40 mil. The prices it was being sold for in Jita (200 mil and such) were over inflated. The big issue is the topes needed to move ships through.
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Katjia
Minmatar Shadows of Valor Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.04 16:03:00 -
[53]
My widow atm is a pretty peice of dock art. I use it as the momma bomber for bomber fleets as jamming things tends to keep bombers alive longer. But then again bomber fleets haven't been very active lately as well as i am the only crazy fool that brings cyno gens to most fleet combat situations.(hot drops 4tw). If the cyno bridging wasn't so painful might get more use out of it.
I bought a computer with vista and all i got was a "smart" paperweight. |
Kahrek Laume
Gallente Atropos Asylum
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Posted - 2008.01.04 16:06:00 -
[54]
I fly a Sin, ganked my first hauler in it the other day and scared the living daylights out of a ratter too.
Fun things to do in a Sin.
1-) Warp to 10km from a belt, cloak and wait for someone to warp to the belt, soon as you see something warping in on the OV uncloak and wait for the bird to land.
2-) Repeat 1.
The Black Ops currently have a few issues limiting their usefullness overall, they could be summed up as follows.
-4ly jump range (Unless you like pain and trained JDC to 5). -Limited cargohold means you cannot carry enough fuel to be usefull, much less cap boosters and ammo. -Cannot use cov op cloak you cannot warp while cloaking and your scan res gets hit pretty harshly, even with a sensor booster you cannot usualy lock something down before it warps off.
Potential Solutions.
-Increase base jump range to 3ly (So 6ly with JDC4) that would make the black op a viable infiltration platform as it stands 4ly is not even enough to make most jumps between regions and avoid the bottleneck camps.
-Change the fuel requirments or create a seperate fuel hold (Like a POS fuel hold) so as to allow a black ops to carry some ammo and enough fuel to make a couple of jumps (Or jump more than a couple of ships)
-Allow the black ops to use a covert ops cloak or create a black ops cloak (That would require cloaking 5 just to be fair) make that cloak not give a scan res penalty and / or allow for cloaked warp.
Overall black ops have a role they are just very specific and too limited to be commonly seen ships. Personaly i love my sin (Called it Seven Deadly) they just might need some retooling to make them more broadly appealing.
Kahrek.
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Arvald
Caldari House of Tempers
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Posted - 2008.01.04 16:08:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel I'm getting a little nervous. My scientist character invented two 5-run Panther BPC and the first built one will pop out of the oven tomorrow. I am worried that it will not sell. I haven't seen much in the way of market activity for any of the Black Ops ships. A few of the earliest ones sold here and there for 800 mil or so, and the market history is dead since then.
Do I have a half-billion dollar albatross on my hands? Myself, I won't be able to fly one until April or later.
their called black ops, your not supposed to be able to see them ---------------------------
Originally by: Last Wolf I prefer smartass, but I like some variety now and then.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2008.01.04 20:32:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Raneru Thats a great marketing tactic! Have you sold them all yet?
Nope. Not a single bite. Well, one guy posted here offering to buy it for cost. But that's it. -- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Wrayeth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.01.04 20:58:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 04/01/2008 21:02:02 Well, I've had my black ops for a week or two and just finished training for the portal generator last night. My tests following that simply confirmed my experience so far: the black ops battleships are the most pre-nerfed ships CCP has released. If you haven't bought one yet, wait.
* First and foremost, they all have fitting issues. * Secondly, their fuel and ammo share the same hold...and the hold isn't any bigger than a tech 1 battleship's. This results in an inability to run a cap booster setup and still perform their role; it also limits their usefulness on extended operations since you need pretty much the entire hold for fuel. * Thirdly, fuel requirements are insane. When you can only fit enough fuel to jump the black ops itself two times, there's a problem. * Fourth, the portal generator. You thought the fuel requirements for using the ship's own jumpdrive were bad? The portal generator is far, far worse. You see, it takes as much fuel to jump a recon cruiser via the jump portal as it does to jump the black ops battleship itself. EDIT: * Fifth, the cloaking device scan resolution penalty changes the already poor battleship lock time these ships get from slow to craptastically abyssmal.
These are just the general problems that all black ops battleships share. The individual black ops have their own issues. Of the two I can fly, the widow is by far the worst.
If you try to fit it for ECM, your 600-million-ISK battleship will have NO tank. This would not be a problem if the ECM was reliable...but it's not. Vs. larger ships and vs. combat recons (rook with innate 32 sensor strength, anyone?), the widow's jamming will fail often enough to make it a flying coffin, nothing more. Warp it in at long range, you say? A.) the widow does not share the rook's ECM range bonus, just the strength bonus; and B.) black ops are designed to be able to jump in on their enemies. As such, they most definitely won't be at range upon arrival.
Because the ECM was just too unreliable on a ship that expensive, I decided to tank it and use it for the one role its bonuses allow that can't be filled by the falcon (aside from portal generation): DPS. Since it has the raven's RoF and missile velocity bonuses, albeit 1 less launcher slot, I slapped some siege launchers on and tried to fit a decent tank. I first tried an injector tank like I run on a standard raven, but couldn't fit a heavy injector along with 5 siege, MWD, and XL booster. Moreover, the widow needs its cargo hold for fuel. I tried removing the injector and one of the hardeners and replacing them with two cap rechargers; sadly, even when combined with the cap control circuit in my rig slots (the other rig slot is an ancillary current router), they were not sufficient to give my tank any sustainability. Finally, I gave up and fit a craptastic buffer tank with lots of extenders and decent resists; unfortunately, the widow's shield recharge time is such that it's not worth trying to fit for passive regen (especially as you cannot afford to kill your cap recharge with shield power relays), so it's just simply a buffer(and not a particularly good one at that, given how much less hitpoints you get with extenders compared to plates).
Joy.
In any case, it is my considered opinion that, right now, black ops are not worth the ISK. Wait for the boost patch and cross your fingers that they will be un-nerfed. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Morcam
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Posted - 2008.01.04 21:27:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Jei'son Bladesmith
Originally by: annoing NO, this is the real reason why Black ops will never be truely popular in Eve under current conditions.. shame on Eve
d'oh . Pwned
I tip my pod to you sir.
Yep, I fell right into that one
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.01.04 22:03:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 04/01/2008 22:04:37
Originally by: lofty29
Originally by: Guillame Herschel Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 04/01/2008 00:33:58
Originally by: lofty29 Just a few days til I can use the bridge
Contact me in-game for a good deal on a Panther!
(well, as good a deal as you will get - they are expensive to build!)
Why would I fly that big piece of minmatar crap?
Green domi ftw!
I remember killing you in a piece of minmatar crap before CCP nerfed the hurricane... :)
We do have some good ships, at least on the test server for a few weeks until someone at CCP gets ****ed they die to them in their gallente boats. Then the nerf bat comes out to play...
--- Its dead, Jim.
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