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Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2008.01.07 11:44:00 -
[31]
So, you have to train a specific race to stop a nano-ship? Do you have to train a specific race to stop a shield tanking ship? or armor tanking? Then why should you do it to stop a speed tanking one?
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umop 3pisdn
Minmatar
Fnck the blob.
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Posted - 2008.01.07 11:52:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Speed is not a broken mechanic. Taking it away limits available ship defenses to two: shield or armor tanking, and further limits the diversity of viable ship fittings.
Actually, at the fanfest, speed WAS a broken mechanic. They never intended for 10k/ms Domis etc that we say prior to first speed nerf.
Now nanoships gain 99.99% resist to all missiles when hitting MWD. THis is a broken mechanic in the same way the 10k/ms domi was a broken mechanic
You are the stupidest person i have ever seen tbh, unfortunately the devs listen to your kind.
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Raxxius Maelstrom
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Posted - 2008.01.07 11:52:00 -
[33]
Really the arguement comes from whether HACs and Recons should be able to reach 'ceptor class speeds.
Nano ships don't use speed just for range advantage, they use them to completely avoid damage while dictating range when while it's MWD is on.
largely they vulnerable to Matar recons, heavy neuts and incompetent helmsmen. They don't do MASSIVE dps but can effectively snag a ship and keep it there in scram till the cows come home.
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2008.01.07 11:54:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Estephania
So, you have to train a specific race to stop a nano-ship?
You don't. Here's a few things you should think about:
Shiny module
another shiny module
yet another shiny module
There's even a nice skill here, too.
Minmatar just have a devastatingly effective tool against them.
Rifters!
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Esk Esme
Caldari
Terra Incognita
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Posted - 2008.01.07 11:54:00 -
[35]
yes in fact u do
if u want ubber shields go caldari Nighthawk
if u want ubber armor train galalnte Asarte
minmatar also shield amarr armor ut liek all races it up to the pilot which way they go
like a scorp with 1600 plate and mids filled with EW
or a shield tanking EOS it depends on the pilot
but my little Freind
if u want ships with scram range bonus u TRAIN GALLANTE Azaru/Lachises/ fogot new EW frig name
if u want web bonuses TRAIN Minmatar Huggin/Heyena/Rapier
IF u want nuet bonus TRAIN Ammar ( pointless since nos nurf )personaly dont bother with Ammar so can only name CURSE
If u want EW Train Caldari Rook / Falcon / Kitsune
so to your question should we train 1 race for webs awnser is YES each RACE has a SPEACIAL SHIP BONUS
can the pansy's that want EVERYONE in EvE to b Equal without trainign and cross training like ppl been doing for year's can these pansy's pls go bck to WoW and other Koren mmo's game
yea my spelling sux sue me
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umop 3pisdn
Minmatar
Fnck the blob.
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Posted - 2008.01.07 11:58:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Estephania
So, you have to train a specific race to stop a nano-ship? Do you have to train a specific race to stop a shield tanking ship? or armor tanking? Then why should you do it to stop a speed tanking one?
No? Minmitar are better at it, it's their bonus.
Like caldari have a bonus to ECM
And gallente have a bonus to damps... i mean... warp scramble range...
And amarr have a bonus to... neuts?
A curse will screw over a nano ship as well as a rapier if its fast and any speed fit ceptor with a web can make them have a bad day.
Personally I use a domi when i hunt nanohacs, swiss army knife (plz dont nerf k thx) with neuts and web drones...
Even caldari care bears can take on nanohacs with a drake with dual webs (we've all seen them bait vagas into trying to bump and then double web and pwn them) or with a raven with 6 cruise launchers and 2 large neuts
Or with a neut rokh
Or with a neut scorpion... its not like you need high dps, you just need a webber, scorp actually works decently because it can shut down the hac and let the ceptors web it.
Its not about isk, but if a nanohac pilot invests the time and specific setup to be fast enough to dodge cruise missile damage (which is normally the aim, to kill the filthy belt farmers) then why should a regular setup raven be able to beat that?
If nanohacs bring a specific setup, you should too, try some remote reps and neuts? or is team work beyond most people?
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umop 3pisdn
Minmatar
Fnck the blob.
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Posted - 2008.01.07 12:00:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Estephania
So, you have to train a specific race to stop a nano-ship?
You don't. Here's a few things you should think about:
Shiny module
another shiny module
yet another shiny module
There's even a nice skill here, too.
Minmatar just have a devastatingly effective tool against them.
Thread over
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Semkhet
KR0M
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2008.01.07 12:13:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Estephania
My opinion is that ISK should not allow you to make an unstoppable pwnmobile out of HAC or BS or interceptor. There should be a reasonable limit to how much you can squeeze out of the ship no matter how much ISK you throw at it. HACs going at 15 km/s are just as wrong as would be wrong a frigate that would cost 3 bill, but would be able to fly at 40 km/s, deal 400 dps and have 95/95/95/95 resistances.
Unless you can publish a frap where we see YOU facing a HAC going at 15 Km/sec or a frig doing 400 dps while MWD'ing, you suffer delusions and are in urgent need of psychological help.
I'm sick & tired of players using a bubbling septic tank as brain...
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Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2008.01.07 12:20:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Semkhet
Originally by: Estephania
My opinion is that ISK should not allow you to make an unstoppable pwnmobile out of HAC or BS or interceptor. There should be a reasonable limit to how much you can squeeze out of the ship no matter how much ISK you throw at it. HACs going at 15 km/s are just as wrong as would be wrong a frigate that would cost 3 bill, but would be able to fly at 40 km/s, deal 400 dps and have 95/95/95/95 resistances.
Unless you can publish a frap where we see YOU facing a HAC going at 15 Km/sec or a frig doing 400 dps while MWD'ing, you suffer delusions and are in urgent need of psychological help.
I'm sick & tired of players using a bubbling septic tank as brain...
I mentioned a word "would" when I was talking about the frig. You may want to use the dictionary to find out what it means. It was an example to refute the argument of ppl saying that "snakes are super expensive that's why they should be uber". Try reading this again if the fictional frig example was too hard to understand:
There should be a reasonable limit to how much you can squeeze out of the ship no matter how much ISK you throw at it.
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Malcanis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.01.07 12:25:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Speed is not a broken mechanic. Taking it away limits available ship defenses to two: shield or armor tanking, and further limits the diversity of viable ship fittings.
This. Don't nerf speed, just introduce some more effective counters (modules to increase explosion velocity for missiles, longer range low-reduction webs, etc).
Variety is good.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Raxxius Maelstrom
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Posted - 2008.01.07 12:33:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Raxxius Maelstrom on 07/01/2008 12:33:41
Originally by: Estephania
If nanohacs bring a specific setup, you should too, try some remote reps and neuts? or is team work beyond most people?
Only thing with this is (and I'm not swaying one way or other) that a specific anti HAC fits revolve around Matar recon ships or Battleship neuts. Neuts can chase off a HAC but it's hard to actually kill one unless he's stupid. Anything thats BC or smaller lacks the capacity to fight off or escape from nano HACs. Out tanking a HACs dps only delays the inevitable as the gank squad turns up. Even if your buddys make it in first, unless the HACs a ****** he'll see them in local and disengage.
Again I'm not really saying this is or isn't inbalanced, but the whole nano nerf whine isn't really nerf nanos, its nerf nano-hacs/recons. T2 cruiser dps (okay not so much...) with faster than none 'ceptor frigate speeds.
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Semkhet
KR0M
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2008.01.07 12:35:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Estephania
Originally by: Semkhet
Originally by: Estephania
My opinion is that ISK should not allow you to make an unstoppable pwnmobile out of HAC or BS or interceptor. There should be a reasonable limit to how much you can squeeze out of the ship no matter how much ISK you throw at it. HACs going at 15 km/s are just as wrong as would be wrong a frigate that would cost 3 bill, but would be able to fly at 40 km/s, deal 400 dps and have 95/95/95/95 resistances.
Unless you can publish a frap where we see YOU facing a HAC going at 15 Km/sec or a frig doing 400 dps while MWD'ing, you suffer delusions and are in urgent need of psychological help.
I'm sick & tired of players using a bubbling septic tank as brain...
I mentioned a word "would" when I was talking about the frig. You may want to use the dictionary to find out what it means. It was an example to refute the argument of ppl saying that "snakes are super expensive that's why they should be uber". Try reading this again if the fictional frig example was too hard to understand:
There should be a reasonable limit to how much you can squeeze out of the ship no matter how much ISK you throw at it.
Nope. I knew exactly what you meant, and I'm telling you that your first sentence about the HAC is as idiotic as your sentence about that hypothetic uber frigate.
To go at 15 Km/sec, a HAC would need
1) A faction/officer setup + TWO polycarbs II, count 1.5 bil at least
2) A full HG snake set, count 3 bil
3) All the other speed hardwires, including Shaqil's, count another bil at least.
4) Be in gang with a Claymore pilot with maxed skills and gang mods.
So you tell me when you did face such a mega-pimped HAC in such a gang for the last time. My three cents: PROBABLY NEVER.
Very few ppl actually do that. In fact, I know only 2 players who have the gutts to throw a 5 bil isk nanoHAC/pod on the battlefield while doing pathetic dps.
If we end defining EvE mechanics based on what a microinfinitesimal minority of players do with their isk, we could as well accept a 1-month curfew in RL as soon someone gets killed.
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Heckelgruber
Amarr
Quam Singulari
The Church.
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Posted - 2008.01.07 13:48:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Heckelgruber on 07/01/2008 13:49:14
Instead of nerfing speed, CCP have come up with more counters, props to them. If you hate nano HACs and don't want to invest more serious time training Minnie recons, you now have a throwaway cost T2 frigate that does the job too. Train a Hyena (12 days max?) and get webbin'! Staying out of web range of these ships means almost all nano HACs dps is very severely restricted.
You can't seriously decribe that as "training a whole race" now, can you?
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Raxxius Maelstrom
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Posted - 2008.01.07 14:10:00 -
[44]
maybe HACs just need a mass increase, so they're more in relation to AFs vs Frigates.
(Runs off giggling)
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Gaia Thorn
Villains
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Posted - 2008.01.07 14:50:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Gaia Thorn on 07/01/2008 14:52:41
Im so sick and tired of people whining and screaming bloody murder cause they couldnt kill a higly specced char in a faction/T2 fitted ship with their uber drake of mission running.
Learn howto play, adapt as you people so foundly scream in our faces when CCP bend over to your will/screams in general discussion.
People spend vast amounts of isk to be able to field these ships sure u can get a t2 fitted vaga around 5 - 6 km/s but problem is that any faster and you often overshot your target and miss the scram range.
But you people being so insanely blind to that feature of nano fitting just park their and start lobbing your t1 missiles thinking this guy will go down in a blaze of glory.
No i say stop this sensless killing of the game let people be and fit their exspensive fits and let people pop em to get the loot.
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr
The Imperial Guards
Darkness Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.07 16:15:00 -
[46]
Originally by: umop 3pisdn
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Speed is not a broken mechanic. Taking it away limits available ship defenses to two: shield or armor tanking, and further limits the diversity of viable ship fittings.
Actually, at the fanfest, speed WAS a broken mechanic. They never intended for 10k/ms Domis etc that we say prior to first speed nerf.
Now nanoships gain 99.99% resist to all missiles when hitting MWD. THis is a broken mechanic in the same way the 10k/ms domi was a broken mechanic
You are the stupidest person i have ever seen tbh, unfortunately the devs listen to your kind.
Do you beleive it is acceptable to have a module that when activated, gives you 99.99% resist to all missiles and also gives immunity to turrets if you keep transversal up?
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Duncan Bannatyne
BioDyne Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.07 16:17:00 -
[47]
Speed tanks are the new stabs. Don't want to PVP? Run o/
Duncan Bannatyne
The Dragons Are Taking Over... |
Jonny JoJo
Amarr
The Imperial Guards
Darkness Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.07 16:17:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Gaia Thorn
Edited by: Gaia Thorn on 07/01/2008 14:52:41
Im so sick and tired of people whining and screaming bloody murder cause they couldnt kill a higly specced char in a faction/T2 fitted ship with their uber drake of mission running.
Learn howto play, adapt as you people so foundly scream in our faces when CCP bend over to your will/screams in general discussion.
Please tell me how a Amarr, Caldari or Gallente gang kills a nano gang without nanoships? How would Minmatar kill a nanogang without nanohuggins/rapiers?
Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total) |
Duncan Bannatyne
BioDyne Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.07 16:18:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: umop 3pisdn
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Speed is not a broken mechanic. Taking it away limits available ship defenses to two: shield or armor tanking, and further limits the diversity of viable ship fittings.
Actually, at the fanfest, speed WAS a broken mechanic. They never intended for 10k/ms Domis etc that we say prior to first speed nerf.
Now nanoships gain 99.99% resist to all missiles when hitting MWD. THis is a broken mechanic in the same way the 10k/ms domi was a broken mechanic
You are the stupidest person i have ever seen tbh, unfortunately the devs listen to your kind.
Do you beleive it is acceptable to have a module that when activated, gives you 99.99% resist to all missiles and also gives immunity to turrets if you keep transversal up?
^ What he said. However i await the whine squad about to chat about webifiers, etc. ( ZOMG 1 MODULE WITH A BASE 10KM RANGE :O )
Duncan Bannatyne
The Dragons Are Taking Over... |
Duncan Bannatyne
BioDyne Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.07 16:20:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Gaia Thorn
Edited by: Gaia Thorn on 07/01/2008 14:52:41
Im so sick and tired of people whining and screaming bloody murder cause they couldnt kill a higly specced char in a faction/T2 fitted ship with their uber drake of mission running.
Learn howto play, adapt as you people so foundly scream in our faces when CCP bend over to your will/screams in general discussion.
Oh, i have a highly spec'd Amarr and Gallente char, i can't hit a nanoship with any of my weapons. Not yestaurday i tried to wtfbbq a vaga in my Abso, with the glorious welcome to the "omg you miss" message every 99/100 shots (Yes, i have perfect gunnery skills). Again, nano's are the new warp core stabs.
Duncan Bannatyne
The Dragons Are Taking Over... |
Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2008.01.07 16:27:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 07/01/2008 16:30:44
Originally by: Duncan Bannatyne
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Do you beleive it is acceptable to have a module that when activated, gives you 99.99% resist to all missiles and also gives immunity to turrets if you keep transversal up?
^ What he said. However i await the whine squad about to chat about webifiers, etc. ( ZOMG 1 MODULE WITH A BASE 10KM RANGE :O )
10+3, 10+3... what, it got a 30% range buff and you didn't even say 'thank you'?
At any rate, where are those nano-ships which are immune to turrets? Have you guys actually ever shot at a nano-ship (or interceptor, for that matter) with anything farther-reaching then blasters?
The last few interceptors I blew up/chased off I did with 220mm AC IIs with Barrage M loaded (making them track, in fact, equally good as pulses using T1 ammo which gets better accuracy due to range of Barrage M on unbonused ships anyway) and, in fact, no web. Using a Cyclone (5 guns, lol), to make matters worse 
Chased off a Vaga with it as well. I can preety much attest that nano-ships are far from untrackable.
Then again, JoJo is a mighty forum PvP-er who never appears on any KBs whatever, so he must be right.
Rifters!
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2008.01.07 16:29:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Duncan Bannatyne
Oh, i have a highly spec'd Amarr and Gallente char, i can't hit a nanoship with any of my weapons. Not yestaurday i tried to wtfbbq a vaga in my Abso, with the glorious welcome to the "omg you miss" message every 99/100 shots (Yes, i have perfect gunnery skills). Again, nano's are the new warp core stabs.
Learn to play?
FFS, don't sit there like a idiot, fire your MWD and drop the transversal down as he tries to follow. You do have a MWD on it, don't you?
You weren't trying to use T2 long-range ammo or something? ;)
Rifters!
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Duncan Bannatyne
BioDyne Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.07 16:31:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Duncan Bannatyne on 07/01/2008 16:35:34
Edited by: Duncan Bannatyne on 07/01/2008 16:32:18
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Duncan Bannatyne
Oh, i have a highly spec'd Amarr and Gallente char, i can't hit a nanoship with any of my weapons. Not yestaurday i tried to wtfbbq a vaga in my Abso, with the glorious welcome to the "omg you miss" message every 99/100 shots (Yes, i have perfect gunnery skills). Again, nano's are the new warp core stabs.
Learn to play?
FFS, don't sit there like a idiot, fire your MWD and drop the transversal down as he tries to follow. You do have a MWD on it, don't you?
You weren't trying to use T2 long-range ammo or something? ;)
T2 Pulse, Amarr Navy Multifreq / standard ranged crystals.
Have you ever tried trying to drop the transversal of a much faster target that is in a good orbit, in a ship without a web slot, when you're in a slow as **** command ship? You fail, sir.
Edit: lasers tracking whilst moving? Lawl.
second edit: o/ anyway's i arn't here for a debate, more of stating my dislike for the play style. In comparison with other tanks, there is minimal ways of combating it, therefore, it's imbalanced.
Duncan Bannatyne
The Dragons Are Taking Over... |
Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2008.01.07 16:46:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Duncan Bannatyne
Have you ever tried trying to drop the transversal of a much faster target that is in a good orbit, in a ship without a web slot
Yes, successfully. I think you do not understand how angular velocity works.
Originally by: Duncan Bannatyne
, when you're in a slow as **** command ship? You fail, sir.
This *is* your own problem that your ship is slow. At any rate, every bit of speed helps. Think how orbiting works a bit.
Originally by: Duncan Bannatyne
Edit: lasers tracking whilst moving? Lawl.
Moving affects tracking in any way? Please, do try to understand how angular velocity works. You track MUCH better MWD-ing at, say, 1-1.5km/s in a straight line when a 4km/s nanoship is trying to orbit you then you do when you're standing stationary. L2P.
Originally by: Duncan Bannatyne
In comparison with other tanks, there is minimal ways of combating it, therefore, it's imbalanced.
That is because you're full of fail.
Rifters!
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.01.07 17:38:00 -
[55]
Thanks to the stacking penalty not applying to certain items and there being multiple influencing attributes many cruisers can go fast enough that they can outrun rockets, light drones, and small turret tracking meaning unless the pilot makes a major mistake they are almost invulnerable to damage.
This means that, given a competent pilot, the majority of combats will result in a win or a draw while non-speed set-ups still risk a loss.
Heavy Neuts can clear their capacitor but they can easily float out of scramble range using the current MWD cycle or pure momentum.
Using an MWD of your own will not help unless you can actually go faster than they can.
Their forward speed will also allow them to clear webs which have a very short range and are easy to avoid in the first place. Should you get hit by one, or by one on a Minne recon you can normally float out of range before decelerating.
Overheating your web may surprise an exceptionally dumb pilot, said pilot may even be stupid enough not to float back out of web range.
In short in current PvP if you are worried about losses and/or want to spend a lot of time in the field speed set-ups are an excellent choice. You have all the benefits of a 100% resist tank and non-penalized warp core stabilizer, though it does take a small amount of intellect to extricate yourself from certain situations, or ensure you don't get into them.
Yes, such set-ups are poorly balanced (cruisers outrunning frigate class weaponry is bad), yes, the system is not designed to support such speeds (even with an excellent connection a target will often jump all over the place as the client cannot keep up with their speed and course changes). However since they exist my advice is to take advantage of them, just don't pretend, as so many do, that speed tanking is evenly matched with armor or shield tanking.
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Gaia Thorn
Villains
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Posted - 2008.01.07 17:42:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Duncan Bannatyne
Edited by: Duncan Bannatyne on 07/01/2008 16:35:34
Edited by: Duncan Bannatyne on 07/01/2008 16:32:18
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Duncan Bannatyne
Oh, i have a highly spec'd Amarr and Gallente char, i can't hit a nanoship with any of my weapons. Not yestaurday i tried to wtfbbq a vaga in my Abso, with the glorious welcome to the "omg you miss" message every 99/100 shots (Yes, i have perfect gunnery skills). Again, nano's are the new warp core stabs.
Learn to play?
FFS, don't sit there like a idiot, fire your MWD and drop the transversal down as he tries to follow. You do have a MWD on it, don't you?
You weren't trying to use T2 long-range ammo or something? ;)
T2 Pulse, Amarr Navy Multifreq / standard ranged crystals.
Have you ever tried trying to drop the transversal of a much faster target that is in a good orbit, in a ship without a web slot, when you're in a slow as **** command ship? You fail, sir.
Edit: lasers tracking whilst moving? Lawl.
second edit: o/ anyway's i arn't here for a debate, more of stating my dislike for the play style. In comparison with other tanks, there is minimal ways of combating it, therefore, it's imbalanced.
Do you really think your cmd ship should hit everything ?
if that is the case i want your resist nerfed on you cmd ship cause amarr cmd ships tank like crazy and i cant break your tank with my vaga.
Should be about the same faulty argument as you are applying to this discussion.
and if u cant tank a vaga in your abs othen you really should look over your tactics.
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Ikthorn Balhar
Veto.
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Posted - 2008.01.07 17:44:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Do you beleive it is acceptable to have a module that when activated, gives you 99.99% resist to all missiles and also gives immunity to turrets if you keep transversal up?
You mean, like a racial jammer fitted on a EAF or a caldari recon? 
Oh, sorry, that's 100% immunity to *EVERYTHING* on a specialized ship. Funnily enough, you can take a nanoship out of a fight by perma-jamming them with either of the above ships. How about that?
Some people just don't think before they post...
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr
The Imperial Guards
Darkness Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.07 17:55:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Ikthorn Balhar
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Do you beleive it is acceptable to have a module that when activated, gives you 99.99% resist to all missiles and also gives immunity to turrets if you keep transversal up?
You mean, like a racial jammer fitted on a EAF or a caldari recon?
Oh, sorry, that's 100% immunity to *EVERYTHING* on a specialized ship. Funnily enough, you can take a nanoship out of a fight by perma-jamming them with either of the above ships. How about that?
Some people just don't think before they post...
You are correct that people do not think before they post. After all, you are seriously suggesting that if you ECM jam a nanoship, the ECM will somehow do damage and make the nanoship blow up? Last I checked, ECM just breaks locks and, depending on the type of ECM, prevents relocking for 20 seconds. It does no damage during this time, nor will it make a nano-istar's drones stop shooting you.
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Rua
Temples of Boom
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Posted - 2008.01.07 18:20:00 -
[59]
Everyone has tools that can be used to kill or at least force any of the nano ships into warp.
Minmatar recons are the I-WIN button.
People whine because they are to used to been able to just PUSH BUTAN without thinking and win the fight. Which in turn is why they only ever consider the huggin/rapier as a counter.
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Moraguth
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.01.07 18:43:00 -
[60]
No matter how good your armor tank is, there is a limit to how much it can tank.
No matter how good your shield tank is, there is a limit to how much it can tank.
If you have a good speed tank, there is NO limit to how much you can tank.
(no matter how good your hull tank ..... blah)
This seems .... not equal to me. No ship should be invincible, that's what most PvPers whine about. I tend to agree with them on this.
good game
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