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Xavier Iblis	Posted - 2008.01.08 16:05:00 - [1] So, yeah. In my various sundry accounts, I've flown Minmatar ships, Caldari ships and Gallente ships. Never have I flown the pew pew of Amarr ships. So, with a fresh account, an empty skills table and dreams of flashy pew pew, I come to you gentle (HAH!) forumites for suggestions on flying Amarr ships through T1 cruiser, for now. I'm hopin' to stick to the flashy weapons like Missiles and Lasers. I'm content to train up both of these weapons in addition to tanking, fitting, and capacitor skills. So, with a cursory glance it seems the order would be something akin to... Executioner > Punisher > Coercer(Maybe?) > Omen. Looking between the Omen and the Maller, it seems like the Omen will dish more damage with its damage bonus where the Maller is clearly the better tank. I kinda like erring on the side of gank over tank but I wouldn't be above fitting a Maller instead (extra low means one more damage mod?) Mostly this will be PVE/light PVP (making ore thieves pay, clearing rats from belts, the occasional mission, the occasional suicide jaunt into low-sec to get an adrenaline fix and waste some isk) so keep that in mind while giving your suggestions. I appreciate any (quality) replies...
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.01.08 16:09:00 - [2] Unfortunately the tech1 Amarr laserboats below BC aren't that great. Punisher is good, but it's better off with blasters. Arbitrator is good, but it's a droneboat. Some people will vouch for the Maller, and yeah it's got a nice tank but the dps of a wet noodle just doesn't cut it for me. Once you get to the Harbinger, lasers start looking good.
Almarez Setenta Corp	Posted - 2008.01.08 16:45:00 - [3] Originally by: Kruel Unfortunately the tech1 Amarr laserboats below BC aren't that great. Punisher is good, but it's better off with blasters. Arbitrator is good, but it's a droneboat. Some people will vouch for the Maller, and yeah it's got a nice tank but the dps of a wet noodle just doesn't cut it for me. Once you get to the Harbinger, lasers start looking good. Agreed, The Maller is a nice boat but with blasters, just like the punisher. If the Amarr are a colony of ants then CCP is that mean kid with the magnifying glass trying to set the ants on fire.
Ashira Twilight	Posted - 2008.01.08 16:57:00 - [4] My amarr alt had a lot of fun in an omen. It's very very hard to fit, you'll have to use focused medium pulses instead of heavy pulse(and beams are even harder to fit). You'll need a mwd for anything but missions, and if you do fit a mwd you'll need lots of cap relays/rechargers. I was never able to find a fit I was happy with though. The ship is pg gimped and doesn't have all that much cap to play around with, before a mwd is fitted, and afterwards it's even more painful. It's a ship that I want to like, but in it's current form it doesn't deliver enough performance. The zealot on the other hand, IS fun to fly. ------------------------------- The opinions reflected in this post DO reflect the opinions of my corp...of one guy and a bunch of alts.
Ogron Amarr Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.01.08 17:09:00 - [5] Like people have said, Punisher is awesome, but better with non-laser guns. Omen is stupidly hard to fit and ** dps tbh. You would probably be better going special forces with drone skills and playing with the Arbitrator. Mini-curse and can be lots of fun. For slightly longer term, Malediction is awesome fun, the AF's are **. But you can get 166 DPS out of the Crusader with good skills and is not a bad solo Inty to fly. Shame about it's two midslots tho. ---
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition	Posted - 2008.01.08 17:53:00 - [6] Omen has a lot of issues. The punisher and Maller are both good, solid ships, though I'd say autocannon fit them for best returns.
Maeltstome Minmatar D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.08 17:56:00 - [7] Originally by: Kruel Unfortunately the tech1 Amarr laserboats below BC aren't that great. Punisher is good, but it's better off with blasters. Quote: I've actually had more success with Autocannons ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.08 18:22:00 - [8] TBH, if I were training a new Amarr alt, I'd train straight for the Arbitrator (and get semi-decent drone skills) and then move on to the Harbinger. It should be noted that the Zealot is the least skill intensive HAC of them all, if you'd like to skip straight into T2 ships. I may get flamed a bit for this statement, but it's absolutely true. Single weapons system (not even drones), armor, speed, and cap skills... that's it. Yes, that includes things like controlled bursts 5. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Xavier Iblis	Posted - 2008.01.08 18:53:00 - [9] So Lasers are so gimp that they're not worth using at all, huh?
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.08 18:54:00 - [10] Originally by: Xavier Iblis So Lasers are so gimp that they're not worth using at all, huh? No, that's not what anyone said. They said they're not generally worthwhile on anything smaller than a battlecruiser, which is generally true. The Amarrian cruiser line is less than impressive. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Xavier Iblis	Posted - 2008.01.08 19:01:00 - [11] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Xavier Iblis So Lasers are so gimp that they're not worth using at all, huh? No, that's not what anyone said. They said they're not generally worthwhile on anything smaller than a battlecruiser, which is generally true. The Amarrian cruiser line is less than impressive. -Liang Fair enough, I stand corrected.
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.08 19:03:00 - [12] Originally by: Xavier Iblis So Lasers are so gimp that they're not worth using at all, huh? Sort of, mostly its trashing a bonus to even be able to use them that make them sub-pair It's great being Amarr isn't it. Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Xavier Iblis	Posted - 2008.01.08 19:07:00 - [13] I take it the "10% reduction in cap use" on lasers is not because lasers are more damaging than other guns and thus don't need the bonus for damage/RoF, what have you... Correct?
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.08 19:39:00 - [14] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 08/01/2008 19:40:29 Originally by: Xavier Iblis I take it the "10% reduction in cap use" on lasers is not because lasers are more damaging than other guns and thus don't need the bonus for damage/RoF, what have you... Correct? That's the complaint, and it's somewhat justified. Probably not as justified as the whining makes it out to be, but I dunno. It'd be somewhat like increasing the base damage on artillery a bit, and giving a bonus to clip size per level. It's questionably useful, at best. I fully support dropping that bonus in favor of something else. The problem is that the ships would then be pretty much crippled because of cap consumption, so something would have to be done. Maybe 25-30% a cap reduction is in order if they fix that, but any more than that and you're looking at some ridiculous uber pwnage from the Amarrian side of things. All of that to say: YES, Amarr has issues (ESPECIALLY in the cruiser lineup), but they're not worlds behind like they're sometimes made out to be. If you're a competent player, you will excel no matter what race you're flying. -Liang Ed: Also, the bonus is because lasers don't use ammo in a conventional sense. They use capacitor (and lots of it) instead. -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Kather Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.08 19:44:00 - [15] i while back i was trying to work out what was better for gank, omen or maller. you would think the maller, but with a because of the extra heat sink the maller can fit, the omen only does more damage if you include drones. (both ships had mwd and rack of focused medium pulses) maller still had better hitpoints and resists. the omen is poorly lacking :( --------------------------------------------- Long live the Evil Proctologists!
Wayward Hooligan Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.01.08 19:52:00 - [16] Punisher -> Maller -> Geddon is the easiest progression for an Amarr only character. Fit them both out for moderate tanks and use smallest lasers of the appropriate class. Yes Autocannons work better but as an Amarr using lasers kinda the point. I'd skip destroyers and BC altogether if I had it to do over again. Go: Frigate support skills Frigate 4 Frigate laser specs 4 Cruiser support skills Cruiser 4 Cruiser laser specs 4 Battleship support skills Battleship 4 Battleship laser specs 4 Don't start flying a cruiser until you have cruiser support skills at decent levels. Don't start flying a battleship until you have battleship support skills at decent levels. From here you can decide what t2 branch you want to go down. Punisher and Maller are the best of the bunch for Amarr and they still aren't very good. The Geddon is an amazing ship but requires good skills to fly. . .. WELP! .. .
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.08 20:24:00 - [17] Edited by: The Djego on 08/01/2008 20:31:40 Originally by: Kather i while back i was trying to work out what was better for gank, omen or maller. you would think the maller, but with a because of the extra heat sink the maller can fit, the omen only does more damage if you include drones. (both ships had mwd and rack of focused medium pulses) maller still had better hitpoints and resists. the omen is poorly lacking :( Hehe I was the other way around. I only used the Maller 4 Times than i went back to the Omen. With Heavy Puls, a Tracking Computer and a T2 AB it is not as bad for easy and fast Missionrun. Shure you have to drop to a Small T2 Repper but i love the Speed, the Range and the Rof of this Fiting. Including Drones and a Light Missle Luncher it isn¦t that bad for Level 2 Missions if you can live with a very weak Tank. The Maller on the other Hand can Tank quite well and even handle Level 3 Missions. But a little to Slow for my needs and it has no Drones. If you got ISK to burn and you like Frigs take a look at the Amarr Navy Slicer, I flown all exept the Caldari Faction Frig and this is by far the best one. It can fit 3 Medium Puls II and 2 Heat Sinks with a very good tank(Faction Platings are cheap this days). Especialy in plexing/exploration and Low Sec Ratting this Frig does very well and I had a little Duell against a Incusus that melted quite fast. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Kather Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.08 20:52:00 - [18] Originally by: The Djego Edited by: The Djego on 08/01/2008 20:47:31 Originally by: Kather i while back i was trying to work out what was better for gank, omen or maller. you would think the maller, but with a because of the extra heat sink the maller can fit, the omen only does more damage if you include drones. (both ships had mwd and rack of focused medium pulses) maller still had better hitpoints and resists. the omen is poorly lacking :( Hehe I was the other way around. I only used the Maller 4 Times than i went back to the Omen. With Heavy Puls, a Tracking Computer and a T2 AB it is not as bad for easy and fast Missionrun. Shure you have to drop to a Small T2 Repper but i love the Speed, the Range and the Rof of this Fiting. Including Drones and a Light Missle Luncher it isn¦t that bad for Level 2 Missions if you can live with a very weak Tank. The Maller on the other Hand can Tank quite well and even handle Level 3 Missions. But a little to Slow for my needs and it has no Drones. im not sure about for pve, this was for fast moving gank squads before i could use a HAC. in the end i used the omen anyway cos it looks so much better (i used the excuse that it was slightly faster to convince myself of this ) --------------------------------------------- Long live the Evil Proctologists!
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.08 21:02:00 - [19] Originally by: Kather Originally by: The Djego Edited by: The Djego on 08/01/2008 20:47:31 Originally by: Kather i while back i was trying to work out what was better for gank, omen or maller. you would think the maller, but with a because of the extra heat sink the maller can fit, the omen only does more damage if you include drones. (both ships had mwd and rack of focused medium pulses) maller still had better hitpoints and resists. the omen is poorly lacking :( Hehe I was the other way around. I only used the Maller 4 Times than i went back to the Omen. With Heavy Puls, a Tracking Computer and a T2 AB it is not as bad for easy and fast Missionrun. Shure you have to drop to a Small T2 Repper but i love the Speed, the Range and the Rof of this Fiting. Including Drones and a Light Missle Luncher it isn¦t that bad for Level 2 Missions if you can live with a very weak Tank. The Maller on the other Hand can Tank quite well and even handle Level 3 Missions. But a little to Slow for my needs and it has no Drones. im not sure about for pve, this was for fast moving gank squads before i could use a HAC. in the end i used the omen anyway cos it looks so much better (i used the excuse that it was slightly faster to convince myself of this ) Yeah I prefere the Omen on a visual point of view to. Also fitted for Speed and with a Cap Booster\MWD it isn¦t that bad in gangs as long as you don¦t get primary. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Shardrael Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.01.08 21:10:00 - [20] Originally by: Liang Nuren TBH, if I were training a new Amarr alt, I'd train straight for the Arbitrator (and get semi-decent drone skills) and then move on to the Harbinger. It should be noted that the Zealot is the least skill intensive HAC of them all, if you'd like to skip straight into T2 ships. I may get flamed a bit for this statement, but it's absolutely true. Single weapons system (not even drones), armor, speed, and cap skills... that's it. Yes, that includes things like controlled bursts 5. -Liang tbo I started out my amarr char with this philosophy, that amarr were quick to skill cause you only had to skill a few select things, however other races work with most skills at 3 and 4, amarr doesnt really, you need to get the support and main amarr skills to 4 and 5 in all areas before the ship really starts to come together, so I dont know I would class a zealot as easiest to skill for.
Andreask14 Alterum - Infinitus - Fabula Dragons Of Oceans	Posted - 2008.01.08 21:11:00 - [21] I am a native amarr player and i went from punisher to maller to arby, (after getting some drone skills) to geddon. Before i had EFT i thought that the Omen will deal way more damage than the maller, and that was the reason i flew in roaming gangs with the omen only to have myself killed by sniper while not having a tank and being outganked and outsped by thoraxes and stabbers. I eventually changed to an arby for small gang work and it did fine until it died to one too many sniper that i couldnt turret disrupt. Its an awesome NOS boat with fair DPS and a well enough tank for a cruiser.
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.08 21:35:00 - [22] Edited by: The Djego on 08/01/2008 21:39:55 Originally by: Andreask14 I am a native amarr player and i went from punisher to maller to arby, (after getting some drone skills) to geddon. Before i had EFT i thought that the Omen will deal way more damage than the maller, and that was the reason i flew in roaming gangs with the omen only to have myself killed by sniper while not having a tank and being outganked and outsped by thoraxes and stabbers. I eventually changed to an arby for small gang work and it did fine until it died to one too many sniper that i couldnt turret disrupt. Its an awesome NOS boat with fair DPS and a well enough tank for a cruiser. Omen is not that bad it is like a Stabber, you simpy have no tank at all. Stay out of Web Range and Warp when you get shoot. If you don¦t fit a Scram(Tracking Computer ftw) you can give out Damage up to 30km that is not that bad for a Cruiser since you can Track down Frigs and Cruisers in most Cases still preaty good. If you got tackelt and shoot you are screwed but a Carcal or a Stabber will be exactly the same. Tank won¦t save you most of the times, speed and Range can... ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.08 23:48:00 - [23] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 08/01/2008 23:51:09 Originally by: Shardrael tbo I started out my amarr char with this philosophy, that amarr were quick to skill cause you only had to skill a few select things, however other races work with most skills at 3 and 4, amarr doesnt really, you need to get the support and main amarr skills to 4 and 5 in all areas before the ship really starts to come together, so I dont know I would class a zealot as easiest to skill for. TBH, I'm closer over a hundred days closer to a fully skilled Zealot than I am a fully skilled Vagabond or Muninn - and I've been training specifically towards those two ships for several months. (Quite literally all I lack is Amarr Frig 4, Amarr Cruiser 5, Small Lasers 5, Small Pulse/Beam Spec 4, Med Lasers 5, Med Pulse/Beam Spec 4) The difference that not having to train drones, missiles, ewar (for ewar drones), etc makes is astronomical. I didn't deny that you have to have good support skills - but every other HAC requires those as well. The simple fact of the matter is that a Zealot does not require as many skills to fly as the other HACs. The Vagabond, for instance, trades Controlled Bursts 5 (an 8 day skill), Armor Rigging 4, Hull Up 5, Repair Systems 5, Mechanic 5, Armor Comps 4 for Scout Drones 5, Drones 5, Gallente Drone Spec 5, Minmatar Drone Spec 5, Electronics Warfare 4, Electronic Warfare Drone Int 4, Drone Int 4, Combat Drone Op 5, Drone Nav 4, Drone Sharp 4, Missile Launcher Op 5, Rapid Firing 4, Warhead Upgrades 4, Standard Missiles 3, Heavy Missiles 5, Heavy Missile Spec 4, Target Nav Prediction 4, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc (I could go on for quite a while, TBH). Well, I know you're going to say "You don't have to fit a missile launcher in that last high slot". You're right, and I don't. I don't have good missile support skills for it. I don't have to have uber drone skills (because I don't....) for the Vagabond - but it makes it better. The thing about it is that you can much more quickly approach "perfection" in a Zealot than any of the other HACs. A near perfect (reasonable) Zealot will outperform many other HACs where someone is not as skilled for the ship. The threshold for becoming "competent" in a Zealot is much, much lower than the other HACs. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Princess Xenia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.01.09 00:13:00 - [24] Originally by: Liang Nuren The threshold for becoming "competent" in a Zealot is much, much lower than the other HACs. -Liang Until a "competent' and "flexible" non-Amarr HAC WTFBBQ ur "competent" and "narrow-minded" Zealot...
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.09 00:16:00 - [25] Originally by: Princess Xenia Until a "competent' and "flexible" non-Amarr HAC WTFBBQ ur "competent" and "narrow-minded" Zealot... I'm not arguing that the Zealot is not in need of a boost (holy ***** hell, check my posting history please). I'm rather strongly in favor of a fifth turret on the Zealot, in fact. I'm saying that the Zealot is the easiest HAC to skill for - and thus, it's a viable option for the "early game". -Liang -- Originally by:** "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Princess Xenia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.01.09 00:20:00 - [26] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Princess Xenia Until a "competent' and "flexible" non-Amarr HAC WTFBBQ ur "competent" and "narrow-minded" Zealot... I'm not arguing that the Zealot is not in need of a boost (holy ******* hell, check my posting history please). I'm rather strongly in favor of a fifth turret on the Zealot, in fact. I'm saying that the Zealot is the easiest HAC to skill for - and thus, it's a viable option for the "early game". -Liang I know who you are... just making sure our OP does not get the impression that Zealot are above-average (compared to other HACs) since they are "less skill point" intensive...
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.09 00:31:00 - [27] Originally by: Princess Xenia I know who you are... just making sure our OP does not get the impression that Zealot are above-average (compared to other HACs) since they are "less skill point" intensive... Just making sure. =) It's one of the reasons I strongly prefer a fifth turret on the Zealot to the Drone bay, actually... because it would keep it SP Friendly, while at the same time providing a much needed boost. You're very much correct though - once you have enough SP, you should move on from the Zealot to another HAC. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!

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