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Sandor Krejaa
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:26:00 -
[1]
I friend of mine decided to try his hand at contract hauling after seeing some luctariv contracts to haul for 2-jumps to a lo-sec location.
Now my first thought was if its too good to be true, then it is. SOmeone was offering 2.5 mil ISK with a 5 million collateral to make a delivery of only 2 jumps of an item of ony 5m3 (and had like 5 contracts up like that.
Well my friend was smart and took a shuttle out to see where the destination was before accepting the contract, and it was a POS in 0.0 and of course he could not get past its sheilds. Fortunately he took off before the sentry guns could lock on.
I am assuming this 'contract' was simply noob bait. A easy way to make 5 million off the death of the noob who took the contract and paid the collateral. It also seems impossible to complete the contract due to the POS shield being up.
I know contract scams are somewhat normal but is it normal for the game to allow contracts to be issued that are impossible to complete? It seems by definition if the destintion is protected an the contract hauler does not have access, that the contract is impossible to complete.
Also is there a guide to contract hauling and interacting w/ a POS in low sec? Obviously there must be LOTS of contract hauling jobs going on in low-sec but how does it work if all the POS are walled off behind their shields keeping the contract haulers out?
Or is all the hauling in low-sec done by trusted sources who know POS sheild codes?
Some illumination in the matter of contract hauling and POS sheilds in lo-sec would be appreciated. Thanks
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Hinterwaeldler
Kombatans
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:31:00 -
[2]
You can not set POS'es as target of hauling contracts, only stations and outposts. If the target of the contract is an outpost or a conquerable station where docking is limited you get a warning.
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Sandor Krejaa
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Posted - 2008.01.08 21:15:00 -
[3]
hmm so then he did do somehting wrong. The place he went to was definatley a POS( I dont know of any other structures that would automatically blow him up).
Im guessing then he warped to the wrong location in the destination system. I will have to quiz him some more about what he saw when he attempted to approach the station.
On that note what sort of docking restrictions can a new hauler expect to find out there amongst the outposts in lo-sec?
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pandymen
The Graduates
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.09 00:01:00 -
[4]
If it is a player owned station...chances are very very good you will not be able to dock there. The alliance that controls the station gets to decide who docks there..and if you don't know them, they probably won't let you dock there.
NPC stations which are owned by an NPC corp in 0.0 can be docked at regardless. Syndicate is an example of NPC 0.0 where there are tons of stations just like in empire.
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Jameroz
Art of War
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Posted - 2008.01.09 00:14:00 -
[5]
If you're unsure then never accept contracts from/to 0.0 system.
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Sandor Krejaa
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Posted - 2008.01.09 02:02:00 -
[6]
Thanks for the tips.
Since the cargo was so small, he went out there in a shuttle (a shuttle + no implants to lose makes for little risk)
Basically he went out to the destination in a shuttle before accepting the contract to see if it was a trap, that way he would not be out 5 mill ISK in collateral plus losing a ship and getting podded. Tis way all he risked was a shuttle and a PK.
Im just trying to recreate where he messed up given that the contract target cannot be a POS. I am trying to figure out how he got the POS location loaded into his autopilot rather than the legitimate target location.
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Artmedis Valben
Gallente
Lobster of Babel
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Posted - 2008.01.09 12:28:00 -
[7]
Hauler contracts dont have in-system docking BMs like missions do.
He can only leave the window with the contract info open, and use the contract link to make sure he docks at the right station.
If it was low-sec (0,1-0,4) then it can't have been a player-held outpost.
Those only exist in 0.0 sec.
To land at a moon and be shot by a POS, you friend must have warped to a moon instead of a station. If it was a random moon, then he must have been very unlucky to land at one with a POS.
Selling: PERFECT PRINTS
T2 SHIPS |
Sandor Krejaa
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Posted - 2008.01.09 16:55:00 -
[8]
hmm well we went last night and revisited the contracts and there was still one left so we retraced his steps and the destination was in fact in 0.0 and it HAD to be a POS..the target station was "Roadkill House of Ill Repute". I am sure there are no NPC stations with a name like that.
I also looked more closely at other contracts and saw other destinations in 0.0 with station names that had to be player created.
This seems to indicate that contracts CAN in fact have a POS as the target for drop off.
ALso if I am not mistaken players CAN anchor a POS in 0.1-0.7 space but ONLY if the one anchoring has something like 8.0 standing with the Empire in question and the POS has a bunch of other limitations as well as to what modules can be attached.
My friend also added that he did receive a message when attempting to dock about not having clearance/high enough standings to dock at the station in question.
Anyway it seems we are back to where we started. Evidence seems to indicate that it is possible to set a sheilded POS as a target for a hauling contract. Is there a a different kind of station a player can operate/name that is not what we typically describe as a "POS"? We are certain now the destination was set correctly and pretty certain the destination was a POS.
I got a clarification too..it was NOT automated station defenses that tried to target him, it was another player on the opposite side of the station. (he was misuisg the term 'sentry' hehe)
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Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2008.01.09 17:08:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Sandor Krejaa
hmm well we went last night and revisited the contracts and there was still one left so we retraced his steps and the destination was in fact in 0.0 and it HAD to be a POS..the target station was "Roadkill House of Ill Repute". I am sure there are no NPC stations with a name like that.
It's not a POS or an NPC station, it's an Outpost.
POS = starbase with guns 0.7-0.4 with standing 0.3-0.0 without
Outpost = players can set who can dock, it doesn't have a shield or guns 0.0 only.
It's not 'shielded' but yes, docking access is restricted, and yes it is possible that you can set a contract to there.
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Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2008.01.09 17:14:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Admiral Nova on 09/01/2008 17:14:21
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Sandor Krejaa
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Posted - 2008.01.09 22:56:00 -
[11]
Well that stinks then...is there any way to tell if the contract target is blocking access w/o first flying all the way there to find out?
It would blow massively to make a 20+ jump haul only to find out you cant access the contract target, and it even blows more that you might have to make the trip twice, once to see if you have access, then a return trip, and then another trip to take the load.
How do haulers deal with this sort of thing? It sure sucks out whatever profit there is in hauling if you have no way to know ahead of time if its going to be a totally wasted trip. It seem any time you take a contract to haul to a outpost you are rolling the dice on wether or not you can even dock.
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Kessiaan
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Posted - 2008.01.10 02:19:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sandor Krejaa
Well that stinks then...is there any way to tell if the contract target is blocking access w/o first flying all the way there to find out?
It would blow massively to make a 20+ jump haul only to find out you cant access the contract target, and it even blows more that you might have to make the trip twice, once to see if you have access, then a return trip, and then another trip to take the load.
How do haulers deal with this sort of thing? It sure sucks out whatever profit there is in hauling if you have no way to know ahead of time if its going to be a totally wasted trip. It seem any time you take a contract to haul to a outpost you are rolling the dice on wether or not you can even dock.
A few rules of thumb:
1) Never accept public contracts that start or finish in 0.0. Period.
2) If you find a nice contract that starts or ends in lowsec, take the contract but wait a while (~12 hours) to actually do it.
3) If it looks shady, it is. If you think you can outsmart them though go for it.
4) Just because the autopilot says to go a certain way doesn't mean you have to.
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Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2008.01.10 12:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sandor Krejaa
Well that stinks then...is there any way to tell if the contract target is blocking access w/o first flying all the way there to find out?
Look at the destination before taking the contract, it will tell you the name of the station and you can see the info on it who 'owns' that station etc. Mostly for 0.0 sec contracts only people who have standings should attempt them, or at least people that know the area if an NPC 0.0 station.
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SaorAlba
0mega Enterprises
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.01.10 17:07:00 -
[14]
A lot of Allaince leaders hate scams. Try contacting the allaince leader or corp leader. Report the inciddent and he well be banned. You could join his corp and accept the contract or ask temporary docking rights
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Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2008.01.10 20:06:00 -
[15]
Of course there's no guarantee it's a scam, since he could have just intended from someone who could dock to deliver whatever it was...
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Sandor Krejaa
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Posted - 2008.01.11 00:04:00 -
[16]
Thanks for all the info. It seems like if I do want to haul in low-sec, the way to do it is contact alliance leaders, etc to get docking access.
It seems then that the contract that sparked this discussion is in fact a scam/ When I look back at it, who would pay 2.5 million to haul something tiny, only 2 hops away. Im glad my friend chose to fly out in a shuttle first to scout the destination before taking the contract.
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Ironass
Amarr
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.11 02:03:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sandor Krejaa
Thanks for all the info. It seems like if I do want to haul in low-sec, the way to do it is contact alliance leaders, etc to get docking access.
It seems then that the contract that sparked this discussion is in fact a scam/ When I look back at it, who would pay 2.5 million to haul something tiny, only 2 hops away. Im glad my friend chose to fly out in a shuttle first to scout the destination before taking the contract.
To understand the reasoning behind this one has to understand the rules of 0.0 outposts. This particular outpost, "Roadkill house of il Repute" is held by "Foundation" of the Roadkill alliance and located in BWF-ZZ, the only station (outpost) 2 jumps away is the one in BND-16, "Roadkill buccaneers den and military surplus store", is held by Ventis Secundis who are also a part of roadkill. What i suspect the 5m3 contract is was a resident wanting to get an item X from a station that he didn't have docking rights with due to faulty standings or just because he isn't actually supposed to have those rights.
Basically: going down to the core, it's not the alliance that sets dockingrights and stuff, it's the individual corps that own the station. Having to set some 20 alliances and corps that are blue to you and should hve the rights, sometimes people get left out.
De-sync Online... =( |
Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2008.01.11 11:12:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sandor Krejaa
who would pay 2.5 million to haul something tiny, only 2 hops away.
That's not alot of isk for some people, and many people have war decs that they don't want to risk. 0.0 contracts should always be treated with suspicion, there's no guarantee they're a scam but then the reward isn't really worth figuring out if they are.
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