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salakhar
Gallente
North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.01.10 09:54:00 -
[1]
did u know u could do that?
all u need to do is keep some1's left drones aggroed. one volley every 14 mins should do the trick and u can go on probing them until u or them get bored! now if they think their 15 minute aggro timer is over u can get a free kill!
lost a ship that way and after a petition that i am simply refusing to let go and many efforts a dev finally asked me if that might have been the case.
kudos to CCP for an amazing and intended game mechanic, as they say!
cheers for reading.
PS. any chance a dev can reply here?
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ApaKaka
Lone Starr Corporation
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Posted - 2008.01.10 10:01:00 -
[2]
Yes, webbing and firing on drones is a valid tactic to keep agression.
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Haks'he Lirky
Dominion Imperium
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Posted - 2008.01.10 10:19:00 -
[3]
it doesnt work to abandon a drone that is aggroed?
Havent tested my self, only been on the other end (maintaining aggro by messing with drones).
If you want to run away by docking/jumping then you shouldnt engage with your drones.
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Zephyr Rengate
Racketeers
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Posted - 2008.01.10 10:26:00 -
[4]
I think engaging a wreck also resets the timer giving you 15 more mins of fun.
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Ursula LeGuinn
Versus Gloria Omnis
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Posted - 2008.01.10 10:30:00 -
[5]
There are a quite a few metagame tactics in common use right now ù "bumping," using drones to reset aggro timers, logoffski warping, login traps, can-flipping and related nonsense, etc. ù that are permitted by CCP.
Hopefully, these issues will be addressed sometime in the not-too-distant future (I'm not holding my breath, but it would be nice).
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PhantomVyper
Darkness Inc.
Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.01.10 10:46:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
There are a quite a few metagame tactics in common use right now ù "bumping," using drones to reset aggro timers, logoffski warping, login traps, can-flipping and related nonsense, etc. ù that are permitted by CCP.
Hopefully, these issues will be addressed sometime in the not-too-distant future (I'm not holding my breath, but it would be nice).
How on Earth do you think that can flipping and bumping is metagaming?!
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Ursula LeGuinn
Versus Gloria Omnis
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:10:00 -
[7]
Originally by: PhantomVyper
How on Earth do you think that can flipping and bumping is metagaming?!
Because when looking at these situations from the characters' perspectives (from a loose role playing point of view, if you will), the whole process is a bit illogical and nonsensical. The developers did not actually intend for either of those game mechanics to be used in that way ù in fact, I believe jetcans used to be white upon jettisoning, way back in the day. But people started using them to mine (unintended), the devs decided to label snatching such mining cans as stealing eventually, and here we are today, with pirates using can-flipping to try to force PvP (metagaming, IMO).
It's metagaming because half the time, the pirate isn't even there to actually steal the ore. He's in fact there to annoy the miners and force PvP, if they will take the bait.
As for bumping... well. The reason people take no collision damage in EVE is fairly obvious. But logging into an alt and smacking someone over and over (causing the pinballing / flubber-ship effect) to prevent them from aligning for warp is pure metagaming. I'm quite sure it was never really intended, and while the person who discovered bumping to begin with was clever, it doesn't make sense from a logical standpoint.
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Dristra
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
Originally by: PhantomVyper
How on Earth do you think that can flipping and bumping is metagaming?!
Because when looking at these situations from the characters' perspectives (from a loose role playing point of view, if you will), the whole process is a bit illogical and nonsensical. The developers did not actually intend for either of those game mechanics to be used in that way ù in fact, I believe jetcans used to be white upon jettisoning, way back in the day. But people started using them to mine (unintended), the devs decided to label snatching such mining cans as stealing eventually, and here we are today, with pirates using can-flipping to try to force PvP (metagaming, IMO).
It's metagaming because half the time, the pirate isn't even there to actually steal the ore. He's in fact there to annoy the miners and force PvP, if they will take the bait.
As for bumping... well. The reason people take no collision damage in EVE is fairly obvious. But logging into an alt and smacking someone over and over (causing the pinballing / flubber-ship effect) to prevent them from aligning for warp is pure metagaming. I'm quite sure it was never really intended, and while the person who discovered bumping to begin with was clever, it doesn't make sense from a logical standpoint.
Eve is so hardcore that roleplaying is just silly, sorry to say it, no offence.
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
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PhantomVyper
Darkness Inc.
Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
Originally by: PhantomVyper
How on Earth do you think that can flipping and bumping is metagaming?!
Because when looking at these situations from the characters' perspectives (from a loose role playing point of view, if you will), the whole process is a bit illogical and nonsensical. The developers did not actually intend for either of those game mechanics to be used in that way ù in fact, I believe jetcans used to be white upon jettisoning, way back in the day. But people started using them to mine (unintended), the devs decided to label snatching such mining cans as stealing eventually, and here we are today, with pirates using can-flipping to try to force PvP (metagaming, IMO).
It's metagaming because half the time, the pirate isn't even there to actually steal the ore. He's in fact there to annoy the miners and force PvP, if they will take the bait.
As for bumping... well. The reason people take no collision damage in EVE is fairly obvious. But logging into an alt and smacking someone over and over (causing the pinballing / flubber-ship effect) to prevent them from aligning for warp is pure metagaming. I'm quite sure it was never really intended, and while the person who discovered bumping to begin with was clever, it doesn't make sense from a logical standpoint.
You have to adapt your RP to the game, not the other way around. If you put your mind to it you can find perfectly reasonable RP explanations to those situations.
And since they happen within game and use perfectly valid game mechanics, they can't be called metagaming just because they don't fit your personal notion of what EVEs RP should be...
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Pew Pewk
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:39:00 -
[10]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming
It's definately metagaming.
From a computer game point:
any tactic in a computer or video game that uses one or more features of that game that lie outside the intended gameplay use, or exploit errors in programming structures.
From a roleplaying perspective:
is a term often used to describe players' use of assumed characteristics of the game. In particular, metagaming often refers to having a character act on knowledge that only the player has access to (such as tricking a medusa to stare at a mirror when the character has never even heard of medusas and should not be aware of their petrifying stare)
As long as CCP consider RP a part of EVE and as long as they call this a MMORPG I see at least two reasons to call can-flipping for metagaming.
However, doesn't mean that canflipping is or should be a bannable offense. After all, cheeze tactics is part of EVE. RA and BoB wouldn't have gotten where they were without using cheezy tactics in the first place, not to mention most of the PvPers in this game. It is still metagaming tho.
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PhantomVyper
Darkness Inc.
Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:44:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Pew Pewk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming
It's definately metagaming.
From a computer game point:
any tactic in a computer or video game that uses one or more features of that game that lie outside the intended gameplay use, or exploit errors in programming structures.
From a roleplaying perspective:
is a term often used to describe players' use of assumed characteristics of the game. In particular, metagaming often refers to having a character act on knowledge that only the player has access to (such as tricking a medusa to stare at a mirror when the character has never even heard of medusas and should not be aware of their petrifying stare)
As long as CCP consider RP a part of EVE and as long as they call this a MMORPG I see at least two reasons to call can-flipping for metagaming.
However, doesn't mean that canflipping is or should be a bannable offense. After all, cheeze tactics is part of EVE. RA and BoB wouldn't have gotten where they were without using cheezy tactics in the first place, not to mention most of the PvPers in this game. It is still metagaming tho.
Find me a dev quote that states that can flipping and bumping are not intended game mechanics then...
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Revelation Space
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:49:00 -
[12]
By virtue of that statement, all miners are meta-gamers when they jet-can mine then 
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Zara Xizor
The Xizor Cartel
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
There are a quite a few metagame tactics in common use right now ù "bumping," using drones to reset aggro timers, logoffski warping, login traps, can-flipping and related nonsense, etc. ù that are permitted by CCP.
Hopefully, these issues will be addressed sometime in the not-too-distant future (I'm not holding my breath, but it would be nice).
I see nothing wrong with can flipping. The 'victim' and any of his corp mates can shoot a thiev if they flip a can. If they use jetcans without a combat ship protecting them, then that is their own fault. There are far too many ways to avoid being the victim of a can flip tbh.
The Xizor Cartel - Recruiting Hard Ass PVP'ers |
Drasked
North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:50:00 -
[14]
Originally by: salakhar
did u know u could do that?
all u need to do is keep some1's left drones aggroed. one volley every 14 mins should do the trick and u can go on probing them until u or them get bored! now if they think their 15 minute aggro timer is over u can get a free kill!
lost a ship that way and after a petition that i am simply refusing to let go and many efforts a dev finally asked me if that might have been the case.
kudos to CCP for an amazing and intended game mechanic, as they say!
cheers for reading.
PS. any chance a dev can reply here?
With this mechanic you can simply keep someone aggro'd from downtime till downtime, so kids, dont forget your drones.
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Pew Pewk
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:54:00 -
[15]
Originally by: PhantomVyper
Find me a dev quote that states that can flipping and bumping are not intended game mechanics then...
Reading comprehension? :) Read further up in the thread. Remember how cans used to work? Considered the RP aspect as well (it has to be considered as long as CCP consider that a feature of EVE.. RP forums, mmoRPG, etc)?
Anything that is either a non-intended feature or considered from a RP perspective, is metagaming. Doesn't necessary have to be both.
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Ursula LeGuinn
Versus Gloria Omnis
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Posted - 2008.01.10 11:57:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
By virtue of that statement, all miners are meta-gamers when they jet-can mine then
Fair enough, but then where do we draw the line between metagaming and "regular" gaming?
Do you have to log out of the game for a tactic to be considered metagaming (i.e., logoffski and login traps)? If so, is "metagaming" really an appropriate term to describe those two things?
You don't have to log off to shoot someone's drones and keep them aggroed, and so far it's a permitted tactic, but would you call it metagaming?
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PhantomVyper
Darkness Inc.
Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.01.10 12:10:00 -
[17]
Metagaming is by its own definition, using something that is not part of the game (or part of playing the game), to achieve in-game objectives. Examples of this are: forum spys, log-in traps, hacking a player's account, logoffskies, etc.
You cannot call something "metagame", just because it doesn't fit YOUR definition of RP. Like I said, you can find any number of RP reasons why bumping and can flipping work the way that they do!
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PhantomVyper
Darkness Inc.
Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.01.10 12:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
You don't have to log off to shoot someone's drones and keep them aggroed, and so far it's a permitted tactic, but would you call it metagaming?
No, I would not call it metagaming.
From an RP prespective you could say that the link between the ship and its drones prevents the ship from lowering its treat level (or whatever you consider the aggro timer to be in a RP term).
To turn this on its head on the RPers, how do you RP the act of logging off to save your ship and its disapearance from space when you do?! 
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.10 12:17:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
By virtue of that statement, all miners are meta-gamers when they jet-can mine then
Technically: yes. They have even been ofthen called exploiters for that.
Naturally in a logic world would be possible to erect temporary structures to house the minerals (i.e. secure or not so secure cans) with really huge size and not the risible 3.900 m3 availables today.
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facepalm johnson
a sackful of sacrificial sacrifices
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Posted - 2008.01.10 12:22:00 -
[20]
Metagaming! LOL.
Metagaming is just dumb net kiddie terminology used by people who want others to think they have some kind of fantastic insight and/or knowledge.
Stop poasting on the forums, it's just metagaming. 
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Tia Ra
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Posted - 2008.01.10 12:23:00 -
[21]
I have only one thing to say:
Congratulations CCP!
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Chi'an Peimei
Caldari
Draconian Toymaker Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.10 12:24:00 -
[22]
Hmm... Bumping only work though due to a 30 sec cool down... (I never understood the reason for that, but what ever) Those 30 second cool downs are a core game mechanic that must have been initially added in on purpose.... {on second thought, this might be only valid for docking bumping, but still} So some of these mechanics have to be intentional. The only way I would consider any of this metagaming is if it prevents logoff warping. (And even then its more sploiting than metagame.)
Tobias Creed did tell you all that I am more offensive than he is... Now go do the dishes like your mom is screaming so you can come back to your basement and play more EVE online |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.10 12:26:00 -
[23]
Originally by: PhantomVyper
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
You don't have to log off to shoot someone's drones and keep them aggroed, and so far it's a permitted tactic, but would you call it metagaming?
No, I would not call it metagaming.
From an RP prespective you could say that the link between the ship and its drones prevents the ship from lowering its treat level (or whatever you consider the aggro timer to be in a RP term).
To turn this on its head on the RPers, how do you RP the act of logging off to save your ship and its disapearance from space when you do?!
Seeing as at least in the past the act of shooting wrecks to extend aggro was deemed an exploit, the acat of shooting drones to extend the aggro should be a exploit the same.
On a game mechanic level, the fact that is possible to abandon drones when they are in control range but is not possible to do the same when they are outside control range is a bit strange. I would put them as automatically abandoned when they go outside control range, more so as returnint to the drone, even if not abandoned, will not bring them again under my control.
after days or wweks from the date of abandonement, not sure what firing on thow will do).
BTW: abandoning them change something, or it is only relate to the ownership?
Drones lost in space keep the ownership tags for a long time (days or weeks), from what I know firing on those drones get Concord on you, so it give aggro to the owner too?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.10 12:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Chi'an Peimei
Hmm... Bumping only work though due to a 30 sec cool down... (I never understood the reason for that, but what ever) Those 30 second cool downs are a core game mechanic that must have been initially added in on purpose.... {on second thought, this might be only valid for docking bumping, but still} So some of these mechanics have to be intentional.
The 30 second timers on session changes is dictated by hardware and internet limitations, it is not there to help gankers.
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Drasked
North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.01.10 14:19:00 -
[25]
My corp mate sal left his drones at a gate after a fight, warped from savespot to savespot for the last hour and then logged out, only to find his ship missing the next morning.
response from the GM indicate that this might have happened because his drones that where left in space after having to bail from a fight will reset your aggro timer when shot upon.
If this is an intended game mechanic then it basically possible to keep someone aggressed from downtime till downtime.
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stahmul
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Posted - 2008.01.10 14:29:00 -
[26]
As if they didn't already **** up drones bad enough, this just takes the cake. WTG CCP!!! You are full of 100% win.
I'm sure once it's used to keep a BoB carrier or mothership agressed from downtime to downtime it'll be an exploit though. Quick guys! use it before someone uses it on BoB and it gets banned!
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Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
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Posted - 2008.01.10 14:36:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
I believe jetcans used to be white upon jettisoning, way back in the day. But people started using them to mine (unintended), the devs decided to label snatching such mining cans as stealing eventually, and here we are today, with pirates using can-flipping to try to force PvP (metagaming, IMO).
It's metagaming because half the time, the pirate isn't even there to actually steal the ore. He's in fact there to annoy the miners and force PvP, if they will take the bait.
Only half-right, i'm afraid.
Jet cans didn't used to be labeled at all, as they were considered jetissoning garbage in space, and anyone that happened upon it could freely salvage the contents of this space-trash (incidentally, just like salvage works, now).
Then, Miners starting using jetisson containment fields to temporarily store their minerals when mining, as the fields were large enough to contain a vastly increased capacity - much greater than the mining ships' cargo holds.
Eventually, some less-than-well-intentioned pod-pilots noticed this, and started claiming their salvage rights to clean up this space trash.
The pod-pilot mining consortiums raised such a fuss on the GalNet channels, that they forced CONCORD to develop a tagging mechanism with jetisson containment fields, that would tag the containment fields as "property of" the mining consortiums, and anyone found tampering with them were flagged with temporary global criminal agression rights toward the owner of the containment fields and it's corporate consortium owners.
This caused much celebration among the mining consortiums, until they realized that those less-than-well-intentioned pod-pilots generally had superior combat vessels than the defenseless mining consortiums could provide.
And there, you have the RP background on why "Jetisson containment field agression" is NOT metagaming.
--
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
^^ Woo hoo! Yellow Text!... wait... :( |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.01.10 14:52:00 -
[28]
Shooting an object owned by a player that is not that player in order to keep them aggressed and so not logging out is an exploit.
Petition it.
Include the logs of when you logged and when your ship was destroyed. You will likely be reimbursed.
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Angry Alt
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.01.10 15:24:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Angry Alt on 10/01/2008 15:24:00
Originally by: Pew Pewk
As long as CCP consider RP a part of EVE and as long as they call this a MMORPG I see at least two reasons to call can-flipping for metagaming.
EVE is a MMOG, not a MMORPG.
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ApaKaka
Lone Starr Corporation
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Posted - 2008.01.10 15:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Angry Alt
EVE is a MMOG, not a MMORPG.
Actually, CCP themselves call it a MMPOG - "Massively Multi-Player Online Game"
MMPOG
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Avery Fatwallet
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Posted - 2008.01.10 15:29:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
Originally by: PhantomVyper
How on Earth do you think that can flipping and bumping is metagaming?!
Because when looking at these situations from the characters' perspectives (from a loose role playing point of view, if you will), the whole process is a bit illogical and nonsensical. The developers did not actually intend for either of those game mechanics to be used in that way ù in fact, I believe jetcans used to be white upon jettisoning, way back in the day. But people started using them to mine (unintended), the devs decided to label snatching such mining cans as stealing eventually, and here we are today, with pirates using can-flipping to try to force PvP (metagaming, IMO).
It's metagaming because half the time, the pirate isn't even there to actually steal the ore. He's in fact there to annoy the miners and force PvP, if they will take the bait.
As for bumping... well. The reason people take no collision damage in EVE is fairly obvious. But logging into an alt and smacking someone over and over (causing the pinballing / flubber-ship effect) to prevent them from aligning for warp is pure metagaming. I'm quite sure it was never really intended, and while the person who discovered bumping to begin with was clever, it doesn't make sense from a logical standpoint.
thats a perfectly sensible post.
therefor i expect it to be flamed to oblivion. welcome to eve-o. 
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WarlockX
Amarr
Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.10 15:34:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
By virtue of that statement, all miners are meta-gamers when they jet-can mine then
why do you roll your eyes, that statement is infact correct all miners that use jet-can mining are infact metagaming. in the strictest rp sence any ship shouldn't be able to hold a can that is bigger then its cargo hold, not to mention an infinate supply of cans that are orders of magnitude bigger then thier hold.
-----------------------------------------------
"I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation." |
Angry Alt
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.01.10 15:41:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Angry Alt on 10/01/2008 15:41:48
Originally by: ApaKaka
Originally by: Angry Alt
EVE is a MMOG, not a MMORPG.
Actually, CCP themselves call it a MMPOG - "Massively Multi-Player Online Game"
MMPOG
Massively Multiplayer Online Game. If ccp wants to add more letters who's to stop them.
The point is, either way, there's no Role Playing involved in CCP's definition.
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Shenko Minara
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Posted - 2008.01.10 16:25:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Seeing as at least in the past the act of shooting wrecks to extend aggro was deemed an exploit,
It wasn't deemed an exploit until after BoB used it to kill Cyv0k's Titan. I'm pretty sure they fixed it for the wrecks, and the drones will be next I guess.
--
99% of Eve-o posters should stop posting. This probably includes me, but definitely includes you. |
salakhar
Gallente
North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.01.11 05:38:00 -
[35]
would still like a dev reply here pls. bumbped!!!
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.11 07:22:00 -
[36]
Originally by: WarlockX
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
By virtue of that statement, all miners are meta-gamers when they jet-can mine then
why do you roll your eyes, that statement is infact correct all miners that use jet-can mining are infact metagaming. in the strictest rp sence any ship shouldn't be able to hold a can that is bigger then its cargo hold, not to mention an infinate supply of cans that are orders of magnitude bigger then thier hold.
That is wrong: the jetcan is the equivalent of a nylon bag (or a trash bag). In the space of a normal, reusable, bag, you can keep teens and with some little work hundred of them.
But when you fill 1 of them it will be larger that the whole bag you used to move them.
So the jetcan (that has the resistence of a nylon bag too) if a reasonable item.
Similarly I feel that should exista a group of containers that unanchored can't contain anything as they are collapsed, but when anchored they assemble in a structure larger than the hold of the ship moving them.
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Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2008.01.11 08:02:00 -
[37]
This "feature" has a word BUG written all over it. You engage someone in 0.0. You use everything you can to win the fight (incl drones of course), you are losing and you have to bail out, leaving drones behind. Next station is 20 jumps away, and you log off in space waiting for original aggro timer. In the meantime someone finds your drones and is starting to attack them one volley in 14 min - you are perma-aggroed. It's hard to imagine anything more stupid than that.
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Ralara
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Posted - 2008.01.11 08:15:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Estephania
This "feature" has a word BUG written all over it. You engage someone in 0.0. You use everything you can to win the fight (incl drones of course), you are losing and you have to bail out, leaving drones behind. Next station is 20 jumps away, and you log off in space waiting for original aggro timer. In the meantime someone finds your drones and is starting to attack them one volley in 14 min - you are perma-aggroed. It's hard to imagine anything more stupid than that.
don't log off. if you're going to die, die.
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Morden Nok
Cohortes Vigilum
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.11 08:30:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Goumindong
Shooting an object owned by a player that is not that player in order to keep them aggressed and so not logging out is an exploit.
This is true, but problem is that there are also completely legitimate reason for shooting the drones.
For example, if they were bugged and thus couldn't been scooped. Or if attackers just didn't have enough cargo space to take them. Or if they were t1 drones and not worth the effort to kill. Or...
If the reason drones were shot were any of those, then it's not exploit thus no reimbursement either.
Of course logs will pretty easily tell which one was it, if the drones were shot down in quick succession after OP warped out, then it was legitimate. If attackers killed one every 10 minutes, then exploit. Assuming CCP actually has any logs that actually show anything...
Disclaimer: I, nor anyone I know are not party to this matter.
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Malcanis
5 finger discounteers
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Posted - 2008.01.11 08:59:00 -
[40]
Originally by: salakhar
did u know u could do that?
all u need to do is keep some1's left drones aggroed. one volley every 14 mins should do the trick and u can go on probing them until u or them get bored! now if they think their 15 minute aggro timer is over u can get a free kill!
lost a ship that way and after a petition that i am simply refusing to let go and many efforts a dev finally asked me if that might have been the case.
kudos to CCP for an amazing and intended game mechanic, as they say!
cheers for reading.
PS. any chance a dev can reply here?
Ah, did you have one of those connection problems we hear so much about?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
salakhar
Gallente
North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.01.11 11:37:00 -
[41]
i was actually scanning at the same time with my alt! noticing that my main's ship was still on scan after more than 15 mins had passed, i logged back in. started warping from safe to safe for another 15 mins or so.
logged out once more and kept scanning with my alt - after a short time my main's ship was no more on scanner and i was happy with myself.
after few hours entering logging screen i noticed i was no more in hostile space - didnt take more than a few milisecs to realize what had happened. (at least i had a fresh new pod and no more implants - lol)
what bothers me is that there is this case, where nothing i can do can keep me from loosing my ship and ruining my kill:death ratio, isk offcourse, prestige, extra hustle for new ship blah blah.
u c, i believe that there should b a way that if followed would 100% ensure my safety! thats the reason of the post. in this case, it was all done by the book and according to, at least my own logic, this shouldnt ever have happened.
(the lost time in warping from ss to ss also bothers a lot) my fun time > isk!!!
i dont bloody need a sig really!
|
Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.01.11 11:38:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Angry Alt
Edited by: Angry Alt on 10/01/2008 15:41:48
Originally by: ApaKaka
Originally by: Angry Alt
EVE is a MMOG, not a MMORPG.
Actually, CCP themselves call it a MMPOG - "Massively Multi-Player Online Game"
MMPOG
Massively Multiplayer Online Game. If ccp wants to add more letters who's to stop them.
The point is, either way, there's no Role Playing involved in CCP's definition.
Maybe you should read line two of the EULA:
Originally by: EULA
EVEÖ is a multiplayer role playing game...
----------------
Mr. Science & Trade Institute |
Jannet Montard
|
Posted - 2008.01.11 12:40:00 -
[43]
It seem that for a lot of "uber" PvPer it is inacceptable that someone can survive and avoid them after they have seen him in local.
To repeat it again:
the problem is that after waping away from a combat, running from safespot to safespot for more than 15 minutes to lose aggro, the enemies can keep the aggro active whoting the drones forever (they don't even need to destroy the drones, a single shot froma small gun denting the shield every 14 minues is sufficent)
in 0.0 the targed didn't even get the aggro notification.
|
Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.01.11 19:33:00 -
[44]
Someone may have mentiond this already. I quit reading cos of all the off-topic jetcan crap.
Shooting somebody's can/wreck to keep them aggroed was said to be an exploit. Shooting a drone every 14 minutes for the same purpose doesn't sound any different.
--
Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot |
Angry Alt
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.01.11 19:48:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Maybe you should read line two of the EULA:
And maybe you should read this or this or this, perhaps this or even this.
EVE is and always has been called a MMOG (or as CCP says MMPOG) by CCP.
|
Khanid Kutie
I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp
|
Posted - 2008.01.11 20:19:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate
I think engaging a wreck also resets the timer giving you 15 more mins of fun.
this was fixed like...last year. read patch notes much? or too busy killing newbies to read them?
|
Serious Rikk
Species 5618
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
|
Posted - 2008.01.11 20:21:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Rooker
Someone may have mentiond this already. I quit reading cos of all the off-topic jetcan crap.
Shooting somebody's can/wreck to keep them aggroed was said to be an exploit. Shooting a drone every 14 minutes for the same purpose doesn't sound any different.
To me it does. a drone is used by the player to kill stuff, is owned by the player, and doesn't fade after a couple of hours being abandoned. It can be picked up by the player at any point and used again.
A wreck is an npc ship the player blew up.
More to the point. A wrech is left behind EVERY time a player blows up a ship. A drone is not left behind every time a player warps off, only when said player forgets to pull them in (ie. makes a mistake)
Why not allow the hunter to use the players mistake to their advantage?
--
Noble Scumbag
|
Turin
Caldari
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.01.11 20:37:00 -
[48]
Originally by: PhantomVyper
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
There are a quite a few metagame tactics in common use right now ù "bumping," using drones to reset aggro timers, logoffski warping, login traps, can-flipping and related nonsense, etc. ù that are permitted by CCP.
Hopefully, these issues will be addressed sometime in the not-too-distant future (I'm not holding my breath, but it would be nice).
How on Earth do you think that can flipping and bumping is metagaming?!
So its okay that a Kestrel or Interceptor can knock my carrier or dread around like its made from paper? Please. Use your head.
_________________________________
|
Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2008.01.11 20:59:00 -
[49]
Of course there are reason to attack drones left behind, whether they can't be scooped or what not. But there is no way to justify using a gating pulse cannon on a reaper to take one shot every 14 minutes to 'chain' aggro.
_______________
Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
|
Montague Zooma
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.01.11 21:06:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Angry Alt
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Maybe you should read line two of the EULA:
And maybe you should read this or this or this, perhaps this or even this.
EVE is and always has been called a MMOG (or as CCP says MMPOG) by CCP.
A. I'd say a legal or quasi-legal document like the EULA trumps PR releases.
B. MMORPG is a subset of MMOG. All MMORPGs are MMOGs, but not all MMOGs are MMORPGs. So the fact that CCP has used both terms to describe Eve tells me the game is a MMOG and, more specifically, a MMORPG.
C. Why the hell is this worth arguing about, anyway?
|
Boildo
|
Posted - 2008.01.11 21:15:00 -
[51]
to op:
"The exploit of shooting wrecks or drones owned by other players to reset their aggression timer was fixed some months ago - This is no longer possible."
I had the same deal one day, they shot the drones they couldn't scoop and reset my timer to probe me.
Gm said that it was fixed awhile ago but obviously Eve and it's PVP timer has always been bugged. With a great deal of GM talking they basically said that its untraceable from game mechanics to check if it resets your timer or not.
|
Boildo
|
Posted - 2008.01.11 21:19:00 -
[52]
Also,
When the drone is out in space. CCP will have a very hard time recording who shot the drone and who was on your kill mail.
It can be ANY ONE in Eve shooting your drones.
People who shot your drone may not even be on your kill mail.
Hence why CCP dosn't care to do the investigation about this type of loss. Because its too much work.
|
Hamfast
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.01.11 22:01:00 -
[53]
As a Drone user, I see one problem with the "Shooting Drones to keep Aggro"... and it's not that someone ran away from a fight, got probed, popped and podded, you play with the big boys in scary space, you pay the price... it has to do with consistency...
I warp in to a mission, launch Drones, get into trouble and run away leaving my drones behind... repair, and return... my drones are still there, waiting for me... But I have no control over those drones until I scoop and launch them...
If the Drones are considered abandoned for control reasons, then they should be abandoned for all reasons and shooting them should have no affect... as they are owned, stealing them should flag you like a thief, but shooting them should not.
If they are not abandoned, then shooting them should keep aggro, but if the owner returns and gets within Range, Control should also be reestablished (no need to scoop and launch)
--------*****--------
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
|
Bish Ounen
Gallente
Omni-Core Freedom Fighters
Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.01.11 22:03:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Bish Ounen on 11/01/2008 22:04:48
The stupid thing is, there is an "easy" fix for this. (easy gameplay-wise, not necessarily easy programming-wise)
Once you abandon your drones by either the "Abandon Drones" function, or by flying off, the drones have a 15 minute timer, and then self-destruct. Yes, players will still be able to aggro you for a BIT longer, but not MUCH longer and certainly not from downtime to downtime, as it is now.
This also seriously cuts down on space-junk (and thus less lag) which is always a plus.
EDIT: I also like Hamfast's idea. Being able to regain control of abandoned but still owned drones is a good idea.
|
Deanna Nuchi
|
Posted - 2008.01.11 22:37:00 -
[55]
It is just another drone nerf, left in to discourage people from using them, eventually there will be no drones  and alot of people with alot of useless SPs 
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
|
Posted - 2008.01.11 23:20:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate
I think engaging a wreck also resets the timer giving you 15 more mins of fun.
This is counted as an exploit and you can be banned if someone (correctly) reports you using it.
My research services
Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.01.12 01:26:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Edited by: Bish Ounen on 11/01/2008 22:04:48
The stupid thing is, there is an "easy" fix for this. (easy gameplay-wise, not necessarily easy programming-wise)
Once you abandon your drones by either the "Abandon Drones" function, or by flying off, the drones have a 15 minute timer, and then self-destruct. Yes, players will still be able to aggro you for a BIT longer, but not MUCH longer and certainly not from downtime to downtime, as it is now.
This also seriously cuts down on space-junk (and thus less lag) which is always a plus.
EDIT: I also like Hamfast's idea. Being able to regain control of abandoned but still owned drones is a good idea.
Regain control if you get in range, or abandon them if you are outside the range of control.
|
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2008.01.12 02:14:00 -
[58]
CCP MAKE A JUDGEMENT AND POST FFS
SKUNK
|
Gar'vak Torin
|
Posted - 2008.01.12 02:15:00 -
[59]
Cry more nubkins.
|
Chavu
Ganja Labs
Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.01.12 02:40:00 -
[60]
I would petition that, salakhar. You should get your ship back, might take a few responses, though.
Have you tested abandoning drones? That should work if you abandon drones then wait 15 mins then log.
You could always leave system or kill your own drones but I've been deep in enemy space before and that's not always possible.
|
Feilamya
Minmatar
Against all Rules
SOUL CARTEL
|
Posted - 2008.01.12 02:46:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Feilamya on 12/01/2008 02:47:18
Does it also work with abandoned shuttles and noob ships?
I found Shrike's Impairor. Bookmarks for sale. Convo me for prices 
--
My wishlist to CCP:
If it's not broken, don't break it.
If it's broken, don't **** it up completely. |
salakhar
Gallente
North Face Force
|
Posted - 2008.01.12 17:09:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Chavu
I would petition that, salakhar. You should get your ship back, might take a few responses, though.
Have you tested abandoning drones? That should work if you abandon drones then wait 15 mins then log.
You could always leave system or kill your own drones but I've been deep in enemy space before and that's not always possible.
these drones dont any more appear on the drone overview (not even in distant space)making it impossible to do f_u_c_k all with em
|
Valan
The Fated
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2008.01.12 17:58:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
The developers did not actually intend for either of those game mechanics to be used in that way ù in fact, I believe jetcans used to be white upon jettisoning, way back in the day. But people started using them to mine (unintended), the devs decided to label snatching such mining cans as stealing eventually, and here we are today, with pirates using can-flipping to try to force PvP (metagaming, IMO).
Just to take it a step further back jet can mining wasn't intended either and is metagaming. Thats why stealing is allowed but for risk vs rewards purposes flagging was introduced pretty much on care bear request so they could fight back.
You can't complain about one type of metagaming and then do another.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
salakhar
Gallente
North Face Force
|
Posted - 2008.01.13 05:33:00 -
[64]
dev reply here needed pls.
|
Retsil Evad
Caldari
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.01.13 05:57:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Retsil Evad on 13/01/2008 05:58:05
Originally by: Pew Pewk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming
It's definately metagaming.
From a computer game point:
any tactic in a computer or video game that uses one or more features of that game that lie outside the intended gameplay use, or exploit errors in programming structures.
Until the devs or GM's of this game say that a particular technique, such as the recently banned black ops BS exploit to avoid Concord, is outside intended game mechanics then it IS NOT outside intended game mechanics and therefore not metagaming.
Quote:
From a roleplaying perspective:
is a term often used to describe players' use of assumed characteristics of the game. In particular, metagaming often refers to having a character act on knowledge that only the player has access to (such as tricking a medusa to stare at a mirror when the character has never even heard of medusas and should not be aware of their petrifying stare)
[i]
Bumping and can flipping are well known techniques of Eve Online and therefore do not fall into the definition you quote above.
Quote:
As long as CCP consider RP a part of EVE and as long as they call this a MMORPG I see at least two reasons to call can-flipping for metagaming.
However, doesn't mean that canflipping is or should be a bannable offense. After all, cheeze tactics is part of EVE. RA and BoB wouldn't have gotten where they were without using cheezy tactics in the first place, not to mention most of the PvPers in this game. It is still metagaming tho.
So what you are saying, then, is that most PVPers are cheats? No wonder you are hiding behind an alt. I think that there would be more than one group liing up to take a pot shot at you.
============== Office use ONLY ==============
BRING BACK EVE TV!!!!!!! |
Liathus Firebane
Gallente
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.01.13 06:18:00 -
[66]
I would personally pod anyone in my corp that did this, it is obviously unintended for this to cause aggro, not to mention a lame grief technique. You get 15min of aggro after a fight, thats it, deal with it.
A Dev seriously needs to deem this an exploit immediately, but then again, us drone users are used to being screwed.
|
Liathus Firebane
Gallente
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.01.13 15:16:00 -
[67]
This one really does need a dev response. Still waiting.
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Ilea Celentay
Veiled Justice
|
Posted - 2008.01.13 15:26:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
The developers did not actually intend for either of those game mechanics to be used in that way ù in fact, I believe jetcans used to be white upon jettisoning, way back in the day. But people started using them to mine (unintended), the devs decided to label snatching such mining cans as stealing eventually, and here we are today, with pirates using can-flipping to try to force PvP (metagaming, IMO).
I don't see how flipping a can is forcing them into PvP. As pointed out, jet can mining itself was not in tendered, and as also pointed out it was more the miners that wanted the flagging to allow them to protect their ore.
It's the miners that choose weather to attack or not, unfortunately for them, they fail to do the bare minimum of intel gathering before they jump out the station in their most powerful PvE ship, and inevitably get beaten by a better more experienced opponent.
But again, they choose to do that, they choose to fight, and therefore, if they loose, its their own doing.
Faction Ship Info || Rig Factory |
Bish Ounen
Gallente
Omni-Core Freedom Fighters
Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.01.13 16:56:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Ilea Celentay
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
The developers did not actually intend for either of those game mechanics to be used in that way ù in fact, I believe jetcans used to be white upon jettisoning, way back in the day. But people started using them to mine (unintended), the devs decided to label snatching such mining cans as stealing eventually, and here we are today, with pirates using can-flipping to try to force PvP (metagaming, IMO).
I don't see how flipping a can is forcing them into PvP. As pointed out, jet can mining itself was not in tendered, and as also pointed out it was more the miners that wanted the flagging to allow them to protect their ore.
It's the miners that choose weather to attack or not, unfortunately for them, they fail to do the bare minimum of intel gathering before they jump out the station in their most powerful PvE ship, and inevitably get beaten by a better more experienced opponent.
But again, they choose to do that, they choose to fight, and therefore, if they loose, its their own doing.
You missed the point of the thread. Can-Flipping was simply used by some to explian a "metagaming" function that was later incorporated into proper gameplay.
the problem here is not can-flipping, or anything to do directly with mining. the problem is with Abandoned drones being used to cause Aggro for a user even after their on-screen aggro timer has run out. the op had it used against him and lost a ship due to it. This is reminds me very much of the exploit used against Cyvok that cost him a Titan. (first titan ever killed, was killed using a now removed exploit that caused an aggro timer reset without the players involvement.)
It's a lame exploitation, particularly since the people having it done against them have NO IDEA it's happening. They basically get an invisible aggro timer that is under the control of other players hunting them.
So if you EVER leave a drone for ANY reason, including your own loss of ship, then your enemies can basically keep you aggroed until the next downtime. All they need is someone in a frigate to sit near the abandoned drones and take a single pot-shot at them every 14 minutes. It completely INVALIDATES the "15 minutes agrro timer" function and all the PVP rules that work with that function.
It's unfair, lame, exploitative, and we NEED A CCP RESPONSE on this deeming it an exploit.
|
Feilamya
|
Posted - 2008.01.13 18:28:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
Originally by: PhantomVyper
How on Earth do you think that can flipping and bumping is metagaming?!
Because when looking at these situations from the characters' perspectives (from a loose role playing point of view, if you will), the whole process is a bit illogical and nonsensical. The developers did not actually intend for either of those game mechanics to be used in that way ù in fact, I believe jetcans used to be white upon jettisoning, way back in the day. But people started using them to mine (unintended), the devs decided to label snatching such mining cans as stealing eventually, and here we are today, with pirates using can-flipping to try to force PvP (metagaming, IMO).
It's metagaming because half the time, the pirate isn't even there to actually steal the ore. He's in fact there to annoy the miners and force PvP, if they will take the bait.
As for bumping... well. The reason people take no collision damage in EVE is fairly obvious. But logging into an alt and smacking someone over and over (causing the pinballing / flubber-ship effect) to prevent them from aligning for warp is pure metagaming. I'm quite sure it was never really intended, and while the person who discovered bumping to begin with was clever, it doesn't make sense from a logical standpoint.
You (and others in this thread) are confusing three things here: roleplaying, realism and "what the devs intended". While these three different things are different and have to be considered separately (something you don't do), they have one thing in common: They have nothing to do with the rules of the game, except that they can be used as a rough guideline for designing these rules - which is not your job, so stfu.
Bumping, can flipping, keeping characters perma-aggro'd are all within the rules. You don't have to like it, and you are allowed to whine about it, and you have my gratz when CCP changes these things (even though I don't agree), but until then stop that crap about metagaming, "roleplaying" and what you think the devs may have intended. If you want a game where every possible move and tactic is predictable, intended and approved by the devs, then Tic Tac Toe is the right choice for you. And if you want realism, step out of the door and enjoy RL. Just give me your stuff first.
As for the term "metagaming", whatever Wikipedia may say about it, I believe it has been invented by game devs who are too lazy/greedy to fix the bugs and design flaws in their games and therefore hope that players will play their game in the way it was intended. There was no metagaming before there were computer games. At least I never heard someone ask if it was realistic, from a loose role playing perspective, that Rooks move faster than Knights and whether Queens were intended to be so overpowered. Then again, this could be because I don't troll Chess forums (yet).
|
Ilea Celentay
Veiled Justice
|
Posted - 2008.01.13 19:33:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Stuffs...
Would this not limit the agro to the drown owner and the pilot shooting it? I do agree this shouldn't be the case at all.
But I thought it best to make it clear. It would only be the pilot shooting the drone, assuming all the other agro timed out.
Its not in-avoidable. Its annoying, and obviously rather lame of the would be attacker. But least if its known you can be assured that there would only be one attacker that could maintain the agro.
Therefore, until it is fixed, to which I would believe it would be, (as like the wreck shooting you mentioned), either don't leave drones out, or, be careful if you did.
It would be nice to have a clear indication to those that have agro against you, or agro you have against others.
Faction Ship Info || Rig Factory |
salakhar
Gallente
North Face Force
|
Posted - 2008.01.15 05:45:00 -
[72]
really need a dev reply here pls!
i ll bump this till i get a reply or till devs will have to reply cause of too many petitions!
cheers,
|
salakhar
Gallente
North Face Force
|
Posted - 2008.01.15 19:21:00 -
[73]
pleeeeease ....
|
Liathus Firebane
Gallente
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.01.16 00:33:00 -
[74]
Been days and still no reply on this one... If shooting wrecks was an exploit and fixed this should be as well, either that or make turrets and missile launchers leave shell casings behind that can be shot for aggression.
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jdok
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.01.16 00:40:00 -
[75]
couldn't you just leave the system if you are really worried about it? I'm preeetty sure a session change would cancel out this aggro
___________________________
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TheSystem
Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2008.01.16 01:00:00 -
[76]
C'mon Devs 
|
Robert0288
Caldari
g guild
|
Posted - 2008.01.16 01:30:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
Originally by: PhantomVyper
How on Earth do you think that can flipping and bumping is metagaming?!
Because when looking at these situations from the characters' perspectives (from a loose role playing point of view, if you will), the whole process is a bit illogical and nonsensical. The developers did not actually intend for either of those game mechanics to be used in that way ù in fact, I believe jetcans used to be white upon jettisoning, way back in the day. But people started using them to mine (unintended), the devs decided to label snatching such mining cans as stealing eventually, and here we are today, with pirates using can-flipping to try to force PvP (metagaming, IMO).
It's metagaming because half the time, the pirate isn't even there to actually steal the ore. He's in fact there to annoy the miners and force PvP, if they will take the bait.
As for bumping... well. The reason people take no collision damage in EVE is fairly obvious. But logging into an alt and smacking someone over and over (causing the pinballing / flubber-ship effect) to prevent them from aligning for warp is pure metagaming. I'm quite sure it was never really intended, and while the person who discovered bumping to begin with was clever, it doesn't make sense from a logical standpoint.
1)Look at it this way, back in the day people discovered jet can mining, (yay for miners?lol) anyways within game mechanics they found a way to excell their profession.
2)People who stole ore see a potential source of income, as CCP stated back then jet can mining isn't against the game mechanics yadda yadda, so people got semi-****ed (lots and lots of thread about so called exploits using jet can to mine into and then use hauler to pull mins)
3)People then discovered, if they can use haulers to take mins, why can't I? So then ore thiefs came into existance (yay for ore theifs?lol)
4)Miners are now going ape****, because there a dozens and dozens of people stealing ore from their cans and there isn't anything they can do about it.
5)As a response CCP catered to the miners by letting anyone who steals from a jet can open to relatiation by the miner and their corp, so thats why you now see protected mining ops in high sec.
6)ore theifs and now pvp'ers adapted to the new game mechanics introduced by CCP by now moving from stealing ore to flipping cans for pvp action.
All is within game mechanics and you can see a progression of learning within the different groups.
B/w bumping is awsome, I mean how else are you going to kill staition campers?
|
Robert0288
Caldari
g guild
|
Posted - 2008.01.16 01:30:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Robert0288 on 16/01/2008 01:32:02
double post
|
Malthros Zenobia
The Cold Wind Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.01.16 03:45:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Angry Alt
Edited by: Angry Alt on 10/01/2008 15:24:00
Originally by: Pew Pewk
As long as CCP consider RP a part of EVE and as long as they call this a MMORPG I see at least two reasons to call can-flipping for metagaming.
EVE is a MMOG, not a MMORPG.
No, EVE is a MMORPG. People seem to think that to be RPing you have to develop a specific personality for your character and assume that personality when playing, to be RPing.
The simple fact of the matter is that such belief is wrong. Unless you have cybernetic implants and fly a spaceship via a pod in real life, you're RPing to some extent in EVE.
Be you an empire loyalist, Pirate , Rank and file soldier , or Veldaholic, you're RPing. You have assumed the role of a capsuleer, a unique and powerful person in the EVE cluster. The choice you make is just how in depth you will interact as that character.
Originally by: Ginger (pharaphrase)
There is no RP, only EVE.
You do not pick to RP or not RP, you only decide just how involved and in depth you with be with your EVE character's persona.
As for being on topic, I think Can-flipping is an unexpected, but accepted result of CCP giving players a means of blasting ore thieves. If you want to mine in highsec, use multiple secure cans and can flipping becomes a non-issue. Or mine in a hulk with cargo expanders, and you can just use a can as a medium to transfer directly to the indy (or carry it yourself).
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
|
Posted - 2008.01.16 03:48:00 -
[80]
dont logoffski?
|
7shining7one7
Quafe Paladins
|
Posted - 2008.01.16 04:00:00 -
[81]
doesn't abandoning the drones cause this exploit to be rendered useless, or am i missing something.
offcourse it's not the coolest exploit but it is a logoffski counter at any rate.
i'd appreciate feedback on if abandoning the drones counters this
thx
o/
|
Malthros Zenobia
The Cold Wind Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.01.16 04:44:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Montague Zooma
Originally by: Angry Alt
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Maybe you should read line two of the EULA:
And maybe you should read this or this or this, perhaps this or even this.
EVE is and always has been called a MMOG (or as CCP says MMPOG) by CCP.
A. I'd say a legal or quasi-legal document like the EULA trumps PR releases.
B. MMORPG is a subset of MMOG. All MMORPGs are MMOGs, but not all MMOGs are MMORPGs. So the fact that CCP has used both terms to describe Eve tells me the game is a MMOG and, more specifically, a MMORPG.
C. Why the hell is this worth arguing about, anyway?
Montague, just point them to the title of this link.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2008.01.16 07:46:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate
I think engaging a wreck also resets the timer giving you 15 more mins of fun.
Shooting at wrecks to extend aggro time is a bannable exploit.
This exploit is known for at least half a year and when it got known on the boards some senior GM stated that shooting wrecks to extend the aggro timer is an exploit which can lead to a ban if abused.
So be careful with that 
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Duke Val'Doom
The Watchers Society
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Posted - 2008.01.16 09:51:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Turin
So its okay that a Kestrel or Interceptor can knock my carrier or dread around like its made from paper? Please. Use your head.
Seems like they would be able to fix this easily by using the ships mass as a calculation, since all ships already have mass in the description.
A small ship should just bounce off the larger ship, just like a small boat would bounce off a larger boat in the water. (Assuming they were made of rubber and the larger boat didn't just smash the smaller one.)
_____________________________________________
I Survived Bootini and all they gave me was this stupid forum post |
Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Mercenary Services
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Posted - 2008.01.16 09:53:00 -
[85]
cool didnt knew this one ^^ thanks for sharing
->My Vids<-
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Liathus Firebane
Gallente
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.16 14:44:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate
I think engaging a wreck also resets the timer giving you 15 more mins of fun.
Shooting at wrecks to extend aggro time is a bannable exploit.
This exploit is known for at least half a year and when it got known on the boards some senior GM stated that shooting wrecks to extend the aggro timer is an exploit which can lead to a ban if abused.
So be careful with that [IMAGE REMOVED]
Exactly what I'm getting at, how is shooting at drones left behind any different then shooting at wrecks, It needs to be addressed.
And to the people that keep bringing up can flipping, get your own thread!
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salakhar
Gallente
North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.01.17 05:28:00 -
[87]
still waiting here for a dev reply!~~~~
cheers,
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2008.01.17 05:33:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
dont logoffski?
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salakhar
Gallente
North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.01.18 12:06:00 -
[89]
still waiting for a dev reply here!
thanks
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Trask Kilraen
The Older Gamers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.01.18 12:28:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
As for bumping... well. The reason people take no collision damage in EVE is fairly obvious. But logging into an alt and smacking someone over and over (causing the pinballing / flubber-ship effect) to prevent them from aligning for warp is pure metagaming. I'm quite sure it was never really intended, and while the person who discovered bumping to begin with was clever, it doesn't make sense from a logical standpoint.
Ya really want a reason? Ok, here's one I'm making up on the spot. All ships are fitted with strong anti-collision fields which only interact with other such fields, which is they don't work to stop projectiles, missles etc. They act like giant, very powerful bumpers, but since the field is distributed around the ship, the energy of the impulse is evenly applied to the ship, so no damage is taken from such a collision. The field coupling is such that the repulsive force gets stronger and stronger (almost infinitely strong) as the objects get closer and closer together.
There... satisfied?
P.S. - I do think maintaining aggro by shooting drones is a bit lame though.
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Neesa Corrinne
Black Watch Legionnaires
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Posted - 2008.01.18 12:39:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Drasked
My corp mate sal left his drones at a gate after a fight, warped from savespot to savespot for the last hour and then logged out, only to find his ship missing the next morning.
response from the GM indicate that this might have happened because his drones that where left in space after having to bail from a fight will reset your aggro timer when shot upon.
If this is an intended game mechanic then it basically possible to keep someone aggressed from downtime till downtime.
Don't log in space?
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Frances Ducoir
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.18 13:16:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Don't log in space?
do you realize the stupidity of your comment?
a) there are ships which can not dock
b) imagine this situation: 0.0 system, gates are camped, your fleet has been crushed by the oponent, fc made the call to bail out and you wanted to call it a night anyway... now you cant log, because of the oponent shooting your drones... ffs... people have biological needs, like sleeping, eating, using the toilet and stuff... so not leting them log out after their 15 min timer is up is harrassment imo.
you have brain cells... how about using them from time to time?
*snip* Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch |
Neesa Corrinne
Black Watch Legionnaires
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Posted - 2008.01.18 13:30:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Frances Ducoir
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Don't log in space?
do you realize the stupidity of your comment?
a) there are ships which can not dock
b) imagine this situation: 0.0 system, gates are camped, your fleet has been crushed by the oponent, fc made the call to bail out and you wanted to call it a night anyway... now you cant log, because of the oponent shooting your drones... ffs... people have biological needs, like sleeping, eating, using the toilet and stuff... so not leting them log out after their 15 min timer is up is harrassment imo.
you have brain cells... how about using them from time to time?
Maybe you should have won?
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Fifth Horseman
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Posted - 2008.01.18 13:42:00 -
[94]
There's a really cool bug that goes hand in hand with this aggro effect.
If you dock up, and the ebil swine keeps you aggro'd by scramming your wreck / drone / Jetcan every few minutes, the timer on YOUR screen while in dock, depletes and vanishes, while the nasty man has a new refreshed timer.
When the timer vanishes from your screen, you undock. The timer magically reappears in the top left at the correct time.
If you didn't spot that, you're about to lose what you just undocked in.
It is a stupid mechanic, and I am loving it until they rightfully get rid of it.
---
Fanboi
noun: 1)Person who thinks you should be happy that Eve just got a little bit worse.
2) Idiot.
Fanboiz: Plural of Fanboi
Doorknob: Collective noun for Fanboiz. |
Frances Ducoir
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.18 13:51:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Maybe you should have won?
you fail at trolling
i take this back:
Originally by: Frances Ducoir
you have brain cells...
*snip* Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch |
Darth Felin
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Posted - 2008.01.18 14:03:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Frances Ducoir
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Don't log in space?
do you realize the stupidity of your comment?
a) there are ships which can not dock
b) imagine this situation: 0.0 system, gates are camped, your fleet has been crushed by the oponent, fc made the call to bail out and you wanted to call it a night anyway... now you cant log, because of the oponent shooting your drones... ffs... people have biological needs, like sleeping, eating, using the toilet and stuff... so not leting them log out after their 15 min timer is up is harrassment imo.
you have brain cells... how about using them from time to time?
Did you try to abandon your drones?
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Frances Ducoir
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.18 14:15:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 18/01/2008 14:24:29
don't get me wrong, i never had this problem, i'am just amazed about all the ppl who say "don't log". this advice is as useful, as if you would tell someone who is afraid of being robbed, to never leave his house.
i dont know if abondon drones would work.
*snip* Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch |
Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.01.18 14:21:00 -
[98]
Problems like this will just lead to people who 'don't log' in.
_______________
Pwett
CEO, Founder, & Executor
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.18 17:50:00 -
[99]
Sorry to pollute all this smacktalk with facts, but Imma do it anyway just because I'm like that.
You cannot abandon a drone located on a different grid. Those drones are not on the drone control UI.
You don't always have the option to jump or dock, either because there is no station or because the gates are bubbled and/or camped. Some ships can't dock anyway.
You can't always sit around waiting for a drone to come back when you need to warp out. For example, when your jammer drones disable whoever has you scrammed, do you really want to call them back and let that ship get another scram?
Sorry for the interruption. By all means, continue smacktalking and derailing the thread with the completely off-topic jetcan discussion.
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Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot |
Taedrin
Gallente
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.01.18 17:57:00 -
[100]
Return drones THEN run away. Seriously, Ogre IIs don't come cheap...
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NeoTheo
Caldari
Species 5618
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.01.18 19:09:00 -
[101]
Edited by: NeoTheo on 18/01/2008 19:12:47
right click abandon drone.
ohh wait the disscussion has moved one, ignore me.
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Casino Alkasar
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.01.18 19:40:00 -
[102]
Wow BAD!
That realy makes pvp with drones a risky thing
Any fix in sight? maybe a dev statement?
*rings dev bell*
_________________
itze mine |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.18 19:51:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Casino Alkasar
Wow BAD!
That realy makes pvp with drones a risky thing
Any fix in sight? maybe a dev statement?
*rings dev bell*
[sarcasm] Balance?
You know the old idea that drone are overpowered. And they cause lag too.
So right, relegate them only in the PvE high sec ghetto. [/sarcasm]
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trumansho
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Posted - 2008.01.18 21:05:00 -
[104]
first of all theres no such thing as a exploit. only undocumented game features
i can tell ya of 1 game. think it was called pacman online. friend wrote it. sorry i lost his number and changed mine. my cat ate my cellphone and i moved
anyways i found doing levels in pacman when fighting rats if you used a engine booster and ran in.out 2-3 times back and forth and came back in they never aggroed ya. got it to work bout 70 percent of the time. did this for like 14 months before i couldnt use my mwe (miniature warp engines) ;)
racked up lots of points. i got to fly my ship with near no defensive stuff at all . all offensive. pac-missions ran fast
used to have a pic of some pac-minixes and a pac-a-thron at 14k just sitting there while i shot them all to hell and beyond
ahh i soo much miss playing pacman in space ;)
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2008.01.19 01:39:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Frances Ducoir
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Don't log in space?
do you realize the stupidity of your comment?
a) there are ships which can not dock
b) imagine this situation: 0.0 system, gates are camped, your fleet has been crushed by the oponent, fc made the call to bail out and you wanted to call it a night anyway... now you cant log, because of the oponent shooting your drones... ffs... people have biological needs, like sleeping, eating, using the toilet and stuff... so not leting them log out after their 15 min timer is up is harrassment imo.
you have brain cells... how about using them from time to time?
Don't get backed into corners?
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