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Law Enforcer	Posted - 2008.01.11 14:37:00 - [31] Edited by: Law Enforcer on 11/01/2008 14:40:21 Edited by: Law Enforcer on 11/01/2008 14:37:25 Originally by: DJ P I cannot understand the complains about the lasers. Fit target painters and your problems are solved. I'm actually not complaining about the lasers but the ships cap/power grid/defense. I don't know why everyone keeps posting turret garbage in my thread. I'm happy with the turrets and the tracking. edit: for those who obviously didn't read my thread. I think if the ship got a slightly better armor repair bonus and another mid/low it would be a very good mission ship.
Jims Mistress	Posted - 2008.01.11 14:59:00 - [32] Originally by: Shevar To conclude this thread, the paladin is the most efficient turret based marauder.. The Kronos with 425 IIs or Neutrons is more efficient. Lows 1 Thermic II 1 Explosive II 1 Kinetic II 2 LAR II 2 CPR II 1 100mn AB 3 Cap Charger IIs 4x Neutrons Rigs 2 Aux Nano Pumps 5x Hammerheads Can dish out 721 DPS Defence Efficiency is 861 and stable without AB
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2008.01.11 16:06:00 - [33] I've done every mission my amarr agents throw at me in my Paladin just fine with 3 heatsinks fitted, that includes missions vs Guristas and Angels. Staring at EFT and lamenting not being able to tank the AE bonus room from downtime to downtime is your issue, not an issue with the paladin.
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2008.01.11 16:08:00 - [34] Originally by: Jims Mistress Originally by: Shevar To conclude this thread, the paladin is the most efficient turret based marauder.. The Kronos with 425 IIs or Neutrons is more efficient. Lows 1 Thermic II 1 Explosive II 1 Kinetic II 2 LAR II 2 CPR II 1 100mn AB 3 Cap Charger IIs 4x Neutrons Rigs 2 Aux Nano Pumps 5x Hammerheads Can dish out 721 DPS Defence Efficiency is 861 and stable without AB A mission ship without a single damage mod is ridiculous, talking about watching paint dry...
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 17:31:00 - [35] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly I've done every mission my amarr agents throw at me in my Paladin just fine with 3 heatsinks fitted, that includes missions vs Guristas and Angels. Staring at EFT and lamenting not being able to tank the AE bonus room from downtime to downtime is your issue, not an issue with the paladin. TBH, I don't fly the Paladin, but this is actually kindof the response I expected to see to this thread. Except that whining seems to be so ingrained into Amarrian thinking now that it's just a reflex for a perfectly fine ship. FFS, its tank is fine with four slots (as much as I was surprised to admit it). The Golem (IMO) only comes in second to the Golem because of the Golem's even damage distribution (depending upon sig radius instead of range) and superior tank. There's plenty of times and places where the Paladin will completely dominate the Golem/CNR - even including resists. I should direct you people to the Vargur whine thread; most of you will learn quite alot. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 17:43:00 - [36] Originally by: Law Enforcer if you have to warp out in a t2 battleship for a mission then I wouldn't consider it the "second best". I'm not saying make the paladin uber but at least buff it's tanking bonus a little so you don't have to warp out. a golem can tank an entire room, no problem so all you have to do is mash "f1/f4" and walk away. another thing everyone is forgetting here. you're all saying the paladin has uberomgwtfbbq damage but in reality when you're fighting ANYTHING other then sansha/blood raider you're going to be doing around the same dps as a golem if not a little less because of the insane EM/thermal resists. use a amarr agent you say? sure, they still give gurista missions. Just don't accept it, they also give mercs and angels as well. But those mob types are easy, just refit with pulses since they approach you point blank. I believe you can skip a mission without a status hit every 4 hours or so. Guristas are a useless Mob for an Amarrian to Fight. Lots of ECM, The BS's orbit far away, their resistance is crazy to EM/Therm. The Paladin is the best mission runner if you get missions suited for it, which really isn't that hard to do. Also Blood/Sansha are the better mobtype as well, since they drop melted capacitors quite regularly. For a mission with a healthy number of BSs, go back and salvage them, it'll take like 5-10 minutes, and you'll be about 10 million richer. The Golem/CNR are better all around since they have selective damage types, but the Paladin cranks out more damage overall, so if you fight mobs suited to the Paladin it will complete missions faster. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 17:46:00 - [37] Edited by: Rialtor on 11/01/2008 17:46:27 Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly I've done every mission my amarr agents throw at me in my Paladin just fine with 3 heatsinks fitted, that includes missions vs Guristas and Angels. Staring at EFT and lamenting not being able to tank the AE bonus room from downtime to downtime is your issue, not an issue with the paladin. No way an Amarrian is finishing Gurista in a timely manner. It's better off just not to do it in the 1st place. It's perfectly doable, but you'd probably be able to run 2 if not 3 missions in that time. As far as angels, they're easy cause their ships are made of tissue paper. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Warrio Mining Bytes Inc. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.11 18:02:00 - [38] Originally by: Law Enforcer try going up against anything other then sansha/bloodraiders Why? Do the million mission running Ravens ever leave motsu to go after anyhting other than Guristas? I doubt it. Amarr pilots will generally run amarr missions. Besides, the RP follows an on-going fight between the Amarrians, Sanshas Nation and The Blood Raiders. Why would they build a ship designed to combat an enemy that their allies (the Caldari) are doing a fine job of holding off by themselfs. Sig removed due to being too freaking awsome. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Deckard Cain
KD.Fluffy The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 18:49:00 - [39] I don't know what these amarr pilots are smoking because the paladin is freakin awesome! Seriously, you guys need to give it a break, you quite possibly have the best marauder in game, and you are still crying. It simply boggles my mind.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 18:55:00 - [40] Originally by: Rialtor No way an Amarrian is finishing Gurista in a timely manner. It's better off just not to do it in the 1st place. It's perfectly doable, but you'd probably be able to run 2 if not 3 missions in that time. As far as angels, they're easy cause their ships are made of tissue paper. The Paladin's dropping out 915 turret only DPS. The highest resist Guristas have for EM is 55% (IIRC, and some actual looking at the damage) - and Thermal is like 35% (which is strongly your second damage type). Conservatively estimating a 45% resistance to your damage type, you're dealing 500+ DPS against Guristas. Hell, boosting the resistance to 60% (which would mean a damn near 100% resistance to EM damage, which it certainly is not), we see you dealing 366 effective DPS. For comparison, a typical mission raven deals probably no more than 400 effective DPS to anything. Simply put, the Paladin is amazing. It quite literally burns through everything in its way, and I'd believe that the guy dropped the web because nothing ever survived to get into web range. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2008.01.11 19:00:00 - [41] I wish they hadn't used the apoc hull... ...yea that's my only complaint. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2008.01.11 19:10:00 - [42] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Rialtor No way an Amarrian is finishing Gurista in a timely manner. It's better off just not to do it in the 1st place. It's perfectly doable, but you'd probably be able to run 2 if not 3 missions in that time. As far as angels, they're easy cause their ships are made of tissue paper. The Paladin's dropping out 915 turret only DPS. The highest resist Guristas have for EM is 55% (IIRC, and some actual looking at the damage) - and Thermal is like 35% (which is strongly your second damage type). Conservatively estimating a 45% resistance to your damage type, you're dealing 500+ DPS against Guristas. Hell, boosting the resistance to 60% (which would mean a damn near 100% resistance to EM damage, which it certainly is not), we see you dealing 366 effective DPS. For comparison, a typical mission raven deals probably no more than 400 effective DPS to anything. Simply put, the Paladin is amazing. It quite literally burns through everything in its way, and I'd believe that the guy dropped the web because nothing ever survived to get into web range. -Liang The main reason gurista missions take me noticably longer is the jamming. Anyway, amarr agents give a grant total of 3 missions vs gurista and 2 vs angels, if it really bothers ya you can easily skip them.
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 19:24:00 - [43] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Rialtor No way an Amarrian is finishing Gurista in a timely manner. It's better off just not to do it in the 1st place. It's perfectly doable, but you'd probably be able to run 2 if not 3 missions in that time. As far as angels, they're easy cause their ships are made of tissue paper. The Paladin's dropping out 915 turret only DPS. The highest resist Guristas have for EM is 55% (IIRC, and some actual looking at the damage) - and Thermal is like 35% (which is strongly your second damage type). Conservatively estimating a 45% resistance to your damage type, you're dealing 500+ DPS against Guristas. Hell, boosting the resistance to 60% (which would mean a damn near 100% resistance to EM damage, which it certainly is not), we see you dealing 366 effective DPS. For comparison, a typical mission raven deals probably no more than 400 effective DPS to anything. Simply put, the Paladin is amazing. It quite literally burns through everything in its way, and I'd believe that the guy dropped the web because nothing ever survived to get into web range. -Liang EM and Therm are their 1st and 3rd biggest resist types. Being that I've excellent shot a dire for for like 40-50, I think it's the case. Angels have EM/Therm 1st and 2nd, but again, they're tissue paper so it's not a big concern. However Guristas are not anything Amarrians should be attempting to fly since you can just decline the mission. They are well tanked to your dmg types. Not to mention their EW they use is quite irritating. You're preaching to the choir, I've already said that the Abaddon and Paladin are the 2 best mission runners if you're going for optimal numbers, imo. But, trust me on this, taking Amarr on a Gurista mission is not a good thing to do. You drastically notice how epically slow you're going. You go from shooting down BSes in like 5-7 volleys, to almost double that. Which increases how much you actually have to shoot down since they might rep. If you're in an Abaddon, that's an event bigger problem, it takes you longer to wittle down their dps, so there could be a chance you can't use your gank to lower their dps in time for it to be tankable. Also you'll be burning more cap, and you have to be cap concious in an Abaddon. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Borasao	Posted - 2008.01.11 19:25:00 - [44] Edited by: Borasao on 11/01/2008 19:25:39 Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly The main reason gurista missions take me noticably longer is the jamming. Anyway, amarr agents give a grant total of 3 missions vs gurista and 2 vs angels, if it really bothers ya you can easily skip them. I got offered 5 Gurista missions in a row (and several Gallente missions) over the course of three nights in a row. I turned down what I could but eventually the choice was to not mission and do something else, log out, decline and suffer the standings loss, or just do the mission. I decided to just do the missions... and they sucked.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 19:28:00 - [45] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly The main reason gurista missions take me noticably longer is the jamming. Anyway, amarr agents give a grant total of 3 missions vs gurista and 2 vs angels, if it really bothers ya you can easily skip them. Yeah, like jamming doesn't hurt everyone not an afk drake missile spammer equally. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 19:31:00 - [46] Originally by: Borasao Edited by: Borasao on 11/01/2008 19:25:39 Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly The main reason gurista missions take me noticably longer is the jamming. Anyway, amarr agents give a grant total of 3 missions vs gurista and 2 vs angels, if it really bothers ya you can easily skip them. I got offered 5 Gurista missions in a row (and several Gallente missions) over the course of three nights in a row. I turned down what I could but eventually the choice was to not mission and do something else, log out, decline and suffer the standings loss, or just do the mission. I decided to just do the missions... and they sucked. Ouch the most I ever got was 2 in a row. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 19:33:00 - [47] Edited by: Rialtor on 11/01/2008 19:34:31 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly The main reason gurista missions take me noticably longer is the jamming. Anyway, amarr agents give a grant total of 3 missions vs gurista and 2 vs angels, if it really bothers ya you can easily skip them. Yeah, like jamming doesn't hurt everyone not an afk drake missile spammer equally. -Liang It doesn't, once the window opens up, you can kill them faster since your dmg types are better. That's the big sink. They're Caldari's racial enemy, and weakest to kin, you'd rip up a handful before the cycle started again. I'm sure it's a pain for everyone, but it doesn't effect everyone equally. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 19:34:00 - [48] Originally by: Rialtor EM and Therm are their 1st and 3rd biggest resist types. Being that I've excellent shot a dire for for like 40-50, I think it's the case. You do know that thermal being third worst means that it's second best right? -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 19:35:00 - [49] Originally by: Rialtor It doesn't, once the window opens up, you can kill them faster since your dmg types are better. That's the big sink. Their Caldari's racial enemy, and weakest to kin, you'd rip up a handful before the cycle started again. I'm sure it's a pain for everyone, but it doesn't effect everyone equally. Try running missions in a Maelstrom and talk to me again, please. Best ammo to use against Guristas is PP - which is overwhelmingly thermal damage. I better start my whine train. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 19:37:00 - [50] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Rialtor EM and Therm are their 1st and 3rd biggest resist types. Being that I've excellent shot a dire for for like 40-50, I think it's the case. You do know that thermal being third worst means that it's second best right? -Liang Yea but the primary on Amarr is EM, not Therm. If it was their weakest then it would be less significant. But it's 3rd worst (2nd best), and our 2ndary dmg type. It's hardly a mix for greatness. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 19:48:00 - [51] Originally by: Rialtor Yea but the primary on Amarr is EM, not Therm. If it was their weakest then it would be less significant. But it's 3rd worst (2nd best), and our 2ndary dmg type. It's hardly a mix for greatness. So you're really looking at the Maelstrom doing overwhelmingly less DPS, and still hitting up the Guristas second and third worst resists. The Maelstrom can do missions just fine against Guristas. And then the Paladin is doing the second best and fourth best damage types against Guristas - and its dealing overwhelmingly more overall DPS! And yes, I know what I did there. ;-) In the end, I'm pretty sure that the Paladin will mission better against Guristas than the Maelstrom - and the Maelstrom missions fine against Guristas. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 19:58:00 - [52] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Rialtor It doesn't, once the window opens up, you can kill them faster since your dmg types are better. That's the big sink. Their Caldari's racial enemy, and weakest to kin, you'd rip up a handful before the cycle started again. I'm sure it's a pain for everyone, but it doesn't effect everyone equally. Try running missions in a Maelstrom and talk to me again, please. Best ammo to use against Guristas is PP - which is overwhelmingly thermal damage. I better start my whine train. -Liang How you classify this as a whine I'll never know. I'm telling you for a fact, Gurista is the worst mob an Amarrian can fly. It takes the most time to do their missions. Being that if you're in an Abaddon/Paladin, you're in one of the best mission runners in the game. I'm saying to you that you should skip them and it will only help your isk/hour. Also why does injecting PP ammo into this make any sense? You have multitypes of ammo with varying dmg layouts, so what if it happens to be that your therm based ammo is better cause it deals Therm/Kin, over your kin ammo which deals Kin/Exp/Therm, Exp being 2nd highest tanked. And the Kin ammo being Longer range and less dmg. So many factors play into that. So I don't see how bring it up adds anything to the discussion at hand. We're talking about Amarr, where they are EM/Therm, not Therm/Em. And you're depending on your 2ndary dmg type to get you done with the mission in a timely fashion, against their 2nd best resists? ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 20:01:00 - [53] Edited by: Rialtor on 11/01/2008 20:05:25 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Rialtor Yea but the primary on Amarr is EM, not Therm. If it was their weakest then it would be less significant. But it's 3rd worst (2nd best), and our 2ndary dmg type. It's hardly a mix for greatness. So you're really looking at the Maelstrom doing overwhelmingly less DPS, and still hitting up the Guristas second and third worst resists. The Maelstrom can do missions just fine against Guristas. And then the Paladin is doing the second best and fourth best damage types against Guristas - and its dealing overwhelmingly more overall DPS! And yes, I know what I did there. ;-) In the end, I'm pretty sure that the Paladin will mission better against Guristas than the Maelstrom - and the Maelstrom missions fine against Guristas. -Liang Perhaps, but you miss the point. You're saying the Maelstrom runs them "fine". Which is a very relative term. "fine" for a maelstrom is not fine for an Abaddon, being that it's the superior mission runner on it's racial mobs. And 2nd and 3rd? EM/Exp/Therm/Kin PP does Therm/Kin, granted not much Kin...but it's 2nd and 1st. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 20:33:00 - [54] Originally by: Rialtor How you classify this as a whine I'll never know. I'm telling you for a fact, Gurista is the worst mob an Amarrian can fly. It takes the most time to do their missions. Being that if you're in an Abaddon/Paladin, you're in one of the best mission runners in the game. I'm saying to you that you should skip them and it will only help your isk/hour. Originally by: "OP maybe I'm just another 68mil sp noob but I think the paladin is another example of a horrid amarr ship. The overwhelming majority of this thread has echo'd this sentiment. This sentiment is blatantly false. I will not, however, argue that you should wantonly accept Guristas missions. For sure, they'll be slower going than the other missions you run... but that's rather to be expected. However, should you choose to accept Guristas missions, I'm reasonably sure the Paladin will drastically oudamage cruise ravens (though probably not CNRs and Golems unless you're inside a specific and fairly narrow transversal range). My overall statement is that the Paladin doesn't run Guristas poorly. It simply doesn't run them as efficiently as it runs the others. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2008.01.11 21:04:00 - [55] The problem is not so much the ship, but imbeciles using it against the wrong NPCs. Since I took up missioning again last week, my amarr agents have given me a grand total of ONE mission that was not against EM-weak enemies. That is out of some 30 odd missions completed. If you absolutely have to run against Guristas for some reason, just get a ship suited for that instead of complaining about a hammer not being a good tool to cut paper. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards Darkness Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.11 21:05:00 - [56] Guys guys - If Raven and golem can do sansha mission, then why should Amarr refuse Guristas mission? Asnwer - Because it shows how out of balance lasers are. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(21 total)
Xequecal	Posted - 2008.01.11 21:09:00 - [57] You're using CN missiles for missioning/ratting? WTF is wrong with you? Those are like 3000 ISK per shot, how do you make money?
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2008.01.11 21:10:00 - [58] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Guys guys - If Raven and golem can do sansha mission, then why should Amarr refuse Guristas mission? Asnwer - Because it shows how out of balance lasers are. I am doing Amarr missions in my nightmare atm, alongside a buddy in a CNR. And he really doesn't get to do all that much ;) Sure, Ravenkind are the swiss army knives of EVE PvE and possibly slightly overpowered in PvE, but specialized tools do the job they are suited to even better. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 21:16:00 - [59] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Guys guys - If Raven and golem can do sansha mission, then why should Amarr refuse Guristas mission? Asnwer - Because it shows how out of balance lasers are. You have no idea how much I <3 your sig. I wish you'd post constructively, because I know that you can. But I <3 your sig. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards Darkness Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.11 21:23:00 - [60] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 11/01/2008 21:23:42 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 11/01/2008 21:17:17 Originally by: Jonny JoJo Guys guys - If Raven and golem can do sansha mission, then why should Amarr refuse Guristas mission? Asnwer - Because it shows how out of balance lasers are. I am doing Amarr missions in my nightmare atm, alongside a buddy in a CNR. And he really doesn't get to do all that much ;) Sure, Ravenkind are the swiss army knives of EVE PvE and possibly slightly overpowered in PvE, but specialized tools do the job they are suited to even better. And as for faction ammo, killing the rats faster is often earning you more than the faction ammo costs you, even at 3000 per shot as long as the RoF is slow enough. Not to mention the additional fun from higher damage. Oh Nightmare is good. I have no probls with nightmare. Zip Nada. Remember nightmare has tracking bonus which means you actually do full dps insted of missing 1/5th of shots on orbiting ships. I am eagely savoring my whines for when they nerf the nightmare in the "boost" patch when they figure out that they gave it too much grid for 4 turrets. After all, nightmare and paladin side by side shows how different 2 ships so related are. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(21 total)

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