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Genius idea to end ISK farming (CCP, I demand a 5% cut as consultance)

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Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.01.11 05:23:00 - [1] Step 1. CCP creates "dummy" ISK selling sites, undercutting every other ISK selling sites in price by a reasonable, yet not obvious margin. "Dummy", in the sense that they are CCP-operated fronts, selling ISK generated at absolutely no effort whatsoever. You should probably hire some extra lawyers and accountants to make the dealings "invisible" from wannabe inquiring RMTers Step 2. Thse sites start getting advertised heavily (just like real ISK selling sites). People that actually buy ISK for USD start flocking to them instead of the "real" RMT sites. RMT-ers start panicking, lowering their rates, while CCP-operated sites slowly but surely keep undercutting them. Again slowly but surely, all RMT traders start falling out of bussiness because their profit margins are becoming way too thin for comfort. Step 3. As soon as the chain effect hits GTC prices badly causing the supply of GTCs available to GENUINE players to dry up, CCP should start using "fake" accounts claiming to sell GTCs for ISK. Of course, it's basically just "free gametime". In order for it to not hurt the bottom line too badly, only a PORTION of the income obtained from the RMT sites will be re-channeled into "free gametime" fake GTC offers, but at BETTER rates as those you could get from the same sites. Example : if the CCP-operated RMT site sells 500 bil ISK at 40 USD per bil in a given day (20k USD revenue), a grand total of 2k "fake" GTC sales are generated (3k USD total value), asking for random amounts between, say, 150 and 200 mil per GTC unit. ___ Sure, it's inflation time first, but then again, you have just driven ALL RMTers off the face of the game with MINIMAL effort, while at the same time pocketing the difference (17k USD daily), while keeping all short-attention-span players you could possibly want (those enabled by the cheap ISK), and at the same time keeping the veterans that CAUSE the short-attention-span guys to NEED to spend ISK in the first place (by hurting them badly and repeatedly for profit). Legal matters aside (which I am sure are plenty), you have to agree with me, it's pure and unadulterated genius. And modest too, by the way ! 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.01.11 05:25:00 - [2] That is...actually not a bad idea. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Draygo Korvan Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.11 05:28:00 - [3] Or you know, they could just require you to join an internet forum for 10$ and generate ISK that way. On a serious point, this isn't a good idea at all really. If CCP wanted to find out who was doing it all they have to do is buy an amount of ISK that is less than it costs to activate an account. Then ban the account that gives the ISK to them and anyone who gave large amounts of ISK to that account. Either way CCP wins. --
Morn Judith Caldari The Singularity Project Rare Faction	Posted - 2008.01.11 05:36:00 - [4] This is a good idea, and something along the lines that I've always thought CCP should do. The only problem is that it would mean that CCP actually cares enough about this problem to essentially create a department for this, which would mean in turn spending money. And they know they'd be spending money when in the end they would lose money, as the many farmers would obviously cancel their accounts. Isk selling is a big problem, and anyone that buys isk should be shot. But it is not a big enough problem to do more than monitor large amounts of isk being transfered and punish the buyers. I wish it were different, but what can you do? I don't like my sig.
nerdragelol	Posted - 2008.01.11 05:42:00 - [5] Do this and write down the people who use CPP's gold buying service and ban them all when the jig is up.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.01.11 05:43:00 - [6] Originally by: Draygo Korvan If CCP wanted to find out who was doing it all The beauty of this idea is that they wouldn't even need to care who was doing it. Nor waste continuous effort on finding out who's doing it again after they banned the first one. They simply bankrupt them ALL, and that's it. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Draygo Korvan Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.11 05:47:00 - [7] Except the method I outlined nets them more money. And will make ISK selling unprofitable. CCP pays 5$ for some ISK from ISK seller y Isk seller y sends 5$ worth of ISK to a CCP alt account. CCP alt account records the username from where the ISK was sent from. CCP looks a journal for said username and determins what farmers sent him the ISK or items to sell for ISK. CCP bans these accounts. For a while ISK seller will want to stay in business so he will buy new accounts, giving CCP more money. CCP already offers a legal way to turn $ into ISK through GTC's. --
Krows Resource Reallocators Incorporated	Posted - 2008.01.11 05:49:00 - [8] Gestapo tactics do not a good game make. Terrible idea, by this thinking CCP might as well go into internet chatrooms and pose themselves as a foreign born man with poor English skills who simply wants to sell isk to make "money for his family" or some other such garbage.
Javeoon	Posted - 2008.01.11 05:49:00 - [9] I approve this message.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.01.11 05:52:00 - [10] Edited by: Akita T on 11/01/2008 05:54:51 Originally by: nerdragelol Do this and write down the people who use CPP's gold buying service and ban them all when the jig is up. The "jig" is never up. It's akin to saying "once we kill all murderers". We've been doing it for hundreds of years. Do we still have murderers ? Yes. We will always have ISK farmers and RMT as long as it's profitable to do it. The only way to get rid of them is make it not profitable. Originally by: Draygo Korvan Except the method I outlined nets them more money. No it doesn't Your method makes CCP gain some money from RMTers attempting to create new accounts until they stop trying. My method shifts a big portion of the current RMT revenue from the farmers to CCP directly. That's a LOT more income (even at not-profitable-for-farmer rates) as the potential income from foiled farmer account subscriptions. And a lot less trouble, and hence a lot less cost for CCP. Originally by: Krows Gestapo tactics do not a good game make. Terrible idea, by this thinking CCP might as well go into internet chatrooms and pose themselves as a foreign born man with poor English skills who simply wants to sell isk to make "money for his family" or some other such garbage. Remind me again (quote please) where in the world have I ever even HINTED at the word "ban" in my OP ? Gestapo ? Hell no. Big corporation ? Hell yes. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Krows Resource Reallocators Incorporated	Posted - 2008.01.11 06:00:00 - [11] Edited by: Krows on 11/01/2008 06:01:21 edit I read your post, it'll be fun to watch at least. My discussion here is done.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.01.11 06:02:00 - [12] How else would I have had possibly interpreted the "Gestapo" reference, pray, do tell ? 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol The Fifth Race	Posted - 2008.01.11 06:19:00 - [13] Posting in soon to be heated thread. _________________ Burn.
Mallikan Gallente Spartan Hoplites Rare Faction	Posted - 2008.01.11 06:33:00 - [14] Haha, this would be great.. And see, it even fits with EVE being a sandbox game model! Now it can be a different kind of sandbox game for CCP. ;) --- lol.. I messed up.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.11 06:43:00 - [15] It honestly wouldn't surprise me if CCP where already posing as GTC buyers using freely spawned ISK to make themselves real cash, and it wouldn't surprise me either if they posed as fake ISK sellers/buyers to gather info about the whole thing. Just to note this is not criticism or tinfoil hattery CCP as company needs cash not just for profits but for investments into theirs and EVEs future. ----------------------------------------------- My new years resolution is to give up nonconstructive posting
Hexman The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2008.01.11 06:55:00 - [16] I dont think CCP cares enough to even consider this, although the idea is not bad. They're being totally reactive instead of proactive in this ISK-selling issue - If they catch you, you're toast. But if not, you're usually home-free. Proof of this is the ammount of local-spamming and mails sent by isk sellers with bang-pudgy-hands-on-keyboard-generated weird names.
Voodoo Mistross Minmatar Cold-Fury Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.11 07:12:00 - [17] I think this is the best idea i have seen brought forth to these wonderous and informned group of individuals. Well done to the OP, well thought out I approve Originally by: Katherine Marx you make a great point. people who play WOW should stay there.
Helen Hunts Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc Red Dragon Industries	Posted - 2008.01.11 07:23:00 - [18] Here in the US, the OP's little idea has a nice name: Entrapment. Quite simply, anyone caught by the proposed CCP ISK-selling site would have a nice little slam-dunk lawsuit if they chose to pursue matters. I don't know about you, but if ANY company I did business with started pulling that crap, I'd be gone as soon as I verified the information. If a CCP exec brought up this little scheme as a serious matter, most of the Legal department would quickly take the guy into a supply closet for a long, excruciating painful discussion. Now if CCP did start making buys from ISK-seller sites and working that route, that's perfectly fine. (and legal) Remember that this is Real Money here. Start selling people stuff, then taking it away, has that nasty 'theft' ring to it. _______________________________ Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money. Any Questions?
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:07:00 - [19] Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn on 11/01/2008 08:08:21 Originally by: Helen Hunts Quite simply, anyone caught by the proposed CCP ISK-selling site would have a nice little slam-dunk lawsuit if they chose to pursue matters. It's pretty hard to file slam-dunk lawsuits against a company based in Iceland when you live halfway around the globe. Most of these farmers-for-profit don't live anywhere in the West. As for the ISK buyers, well, I don't think a lawsuit whining about CCP banning them from CCP's game for breaking CCP's rules (that they agreed to follow) would hold any water, no matter how CCP obtained the intel. In other words, you're wrong. Quote: I don't know about you, but if ANY company I did business with started pulling that crap, I'd be gone as soon as I verified the information. If a CCP exec brought up this little scheme as a serious matter, most of the Legal department would quickly take the guy into a supply closet for a long, excruciating painful discussion. "Did business with"? CCP's business is to provide the game, and people pay to play it. ISK sellers and ISK buyers are violating the EULA, and also profiting off of CCP's intellectual property. Methinks someone gets a lot more ISK with their MasterCard than their Hulk or CNR.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Helen Hunts Here in the US, the OP's little idea has a nice name: Entrapment. Quite simply, anyone caught by the proposed CCP ISK-selling site would have a nice little slam-dunk lawsuit if they chose to pursue matters. I don't know about you, but if ANY company I did business with started pulling that crap, I'd be gone as soon as I verified the information. If a CCP exec brought up this little scheme as a serious matter, most of the Legal department would quickly take the guy into a supply closet for a long, excruciating painful discussion. Now if CCP did start making buys from ISK-seller sites and working that route, that's perfectly fine. (and legal) Remember that this is Real Money here. Start selling people stuff, then taking it away, has that nasty 'theft' ring to it. Good thing CCP operates under Icelandic law which you agreed to as well when you installed the game Also, any judge is just going to laugh you out of the courtroom Originally by: Tarminic Okay, that's it. You are on the KOS list, and you better pray that I don't have access to a locater agent.
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:09:00 - [21] Edited by: Fink Angel on 11/01/2008 08:11:27 Are people reading a different OP to me, or are they just posting their opinions based on they think it's a standard "ban them and remove the ISK from their wallet" thread? The OP is suggesting CCP just undercut the ISK sellers, as CCP have access to basically create as much in game ISK as they like. It's just a way of driving the farmers out of the game, while creating a new revenue stream of extra GTC selling for CCP. There is no punishment for ISK buyers, apart from the fact that veteran players will blow up their newly (cash) bought expensive ships. The players in game will have better market conditions as they won't have to compete with macroers / intensive farmers. The idea gets the thumbs up from me. Edit: Thought I'd actually better mention I agree with it!
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:15:00 - [22] Originally by: Fink Angel There is no punishment for ISK buyers, apart from the fact that veteran players will blow up their newly (cash) bought expensive ships. Yeah, but I wonder if CCP would simply let the ISK buyers slide. I guess they would, since they're paying customers and there are probably a lot of them. Quote: The players in game will have better market conditions as they won't have to compete with macroers / intensive farmers. The idea gets the thumbs up from me. Edit: Thought I'd actually better mention I agree with it! I like the idea, too, but what happens after the farmers leave? CCP would have to keep running the front ISK-selling sites. If they didn't, the farmers would probably come back eventually.
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:31:00 - [23] Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn Yeah, but I wonder if CCP would simply let the ISK buyers slide. I guess they would, since they're paying customers and there are probably a lot of them. My understanding of the OP's idea is that, yes, let them buy ISK, let them stay, let them get blown up by the normal players and they will have a short attention span (which is sorta why they are buying ISK in the first place rather than working for it) and move onto pasteurs new. Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn I like the idea, too, but what happens after the farmers leave? CCP would have to keep running the front ISK-selling sites. If they didn't, the farmers would probably come back eventually. Yes. I guess the general plan is that CCP already indirectly make money from GTC sales, which involve Real Money Trading somewhere in the chain, so they are just being re-aligned higher up the food chain and doing the whole ISK > GTC thing themselves. Kind of an "if you can't beat them, join them" idea.
Mikal Drey ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:36:00 - [24] hey hey whos to say that this isnt already being done ??
Thornat	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:41:00 - [25] Well there is a really big misconception about the so called ISK farmers and there have been a number of reportings done on this type of operation which point out some of these misconceptions. The most notable one is that these people don't really care if they make money or not, they make the ISK as much for themselves as for selling. These aren't organized businesses, but rather groups of players (friends) who love the game and figuire they can put their knowledge of the game in combination of their knowledge of the internet (web space and use of web based tools) to use to make money while they play, and so they do. Macros came along simply to automate ISK farming and increase production to meet the demands of the community who is buying ISK faster then the farmers can sell it. I don't see how the Eve community can pass judgement on them when they are the ones buying the ISK, to me this was always a double standard and quite honestly is a very American mentality that has become the adapted philosophy in the Eve community, but I think people have just stopped thinking. I'm not trying to justify it here but if I was running CCP and was looking to solve the ISK farming problem I would find it hard to justify trying to go after the ISK farmers when so much of the player community supports them with their wallets. I would probobly just like CCP has do absolutly nothing about it.
Thornat	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:47:00 - [26] Originally by: Fink Angel Edited by: Fink Angel on 11/01/2008 08:11:27 Are people reading a different OP to me, or are they just posting their opinions based on they think it's a standard "ban them and remove the ISK from their wallet" thread? The OP is suggesting CCP just undercut the ISK sellers, as CCP have access to basically create as much in game ISK as they like. It's just a way of driving the farmers out of the game, while creating a new revenue stream of extra GTC selling for CCP. There is no punishment for ISK buyers, apart from the fact that veteran players will blow up their newly (cash) bought expensive ships. The players in game will have better market conditions as they won't have to compete with macroers / intensive farmers. The idea gets the thumbs up from me. Edit: Thought I'd actually better mention I agree with it! I don't think anyone disputes that ISK farming negativly affects the game, the question is, who is really responsible for ISK sellers... Is it CCP? or is it the community that is buying the ISK faster then it can be produced? I mean today even if you want to buy ISK there is often a 1 or 2 week wait because these guys are having a hard time keeping up with the demand. I guess what I'm saying is that trying to solve a problem from the production side when clearly it is the consumer side that is the problem is a bit foolish. By selling isk at lower prices CCP would not put the ISK sellers out of business, but they would meet the insane demand that even the ISK sellers can't meet adn whats worse would probobly create even more customers, I mean hell if CCP started selling ISK at even lower prices then what you can get from the farmers I doubt there would be anyone who doesn't buy ISK. It would probobly become just like the idea of Alt accounts, I mean these days if you are even remotly serious about Eve you have to have at least two accounts. I simply don't think anything positive would come out of it.
Chrysalis D'lilth	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:48:00 - [27] You after some cheap isk Akita? ;) Not a bad idea at all really, and to the wanna be forum lawyers, i recommend you actually read Akita's post - don't ever think of practicing law until you learn to read, talk about not reading the small print, lol. Akita doesn't suggest banning accounts, simply undercutting the isk sellers. The smart thing for CCP to do to maintain the integrity of the market would be to adjust tax/insurance to take the extra isk out of the game that they input via selling isk.
Thornat	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:54:00 - [28] Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth You after some cheap isk Akita? ;) Not a bad idea at all really, and to the wanna be forum lawyers, i recommend you actually read Akita's post - don't ever think of practicing law until you learn to read, talk about not reading the small print, lol. Akita doesn't suggest banning accounts, simply undercutting the isk sellers. The smart thing for CCP to do to maintain the integrity of the market would be to adjust tax/insurance to take the extra isk out of the game that they input via selling isk. I think you guys are underestimating how many people would buy ISK. U can expect that the average player will have a few billion ISK in a matter of days after the launch of such a official ISK store. No amount of taxation is going to stop the excess of ISK purchases, I mean people who would never buy from ISK sellers would start buying ISK and I wouldn't blame them. Considering how much time and effort it takes to make ISK, if someone offers an official, legal and secure way to get ISK directly for CCP and at low prices.. hell I know that I would buy a few hundred billion ISK.
Rhuyo	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:56:00 - [29] I like the idea, I rather see CCP getting the money instead of those farmers. More money will mostlikely mean more development for the game and hopefully more fun for us.
Thornat	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:59:00 - [30] Originally by: Rhuyo I like the idea, I rather see CCP getting the money instead of those farmers. More money will mostlikely mean more development for the game and hopefully more fun for us. Yes that would probobly be the only positive thing to come out of such a plan, figuiring that the response to an official ISK store would be overwhelming, they would probobly make a considerable buck on it. In the end though this is the CIA solution to drug trafficking... if you can't beat them, join them...

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