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Flashpoint Providence - AAR - Operation Fedaykin

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The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:04:00 - [151] Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 14/01/2008 19:06:16 Originally by: Keorythe Although we dont plan to doctor our killboards by restating ship losses at "jita mineral" prices like you have done despite constructing everything ourselves. We have not doctored our killboard. It is under construction to accomodate Trinity features and needed a reset to default features - which includes the prices you refer to. That is simply a fact. I'm not getting into a debate about it. Particularly as all these comments about our killboard are actually against the rules of the forums here. Cosmo The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Threv Echandari Caldari Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:04:00 - [152] Good Job Jade, While you might have failed to acheive objectives you certainly showed the validity of the tactic and highlighted waht im[povements could be made. (What was left unsaid could speak Volumes) I noticed more than few people commenting on how a Conventional FLeet could have been used to similar effect. What they dont understand is a Cost benefit analyis should show that Far more could be acheived with far less. Losing a 50 man SB gang configured as yours was is far cheaper than a 50 man Raven fleet. (I assume you didn't lose the SIN?) (With probably similar results except once you lost the Raven your pilots would be loath to lose another one) For "insurgent operations" Cost is a factor. With a little Tweaking and better target selection this is defintely a new tool in the toolbox. (I only wish we could have used it in our campaign first!) Good luck UK and SF!
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:05:00 - [153] Originally by: Jade Constantine I wouldn't expect you guys to enjoy it. Actually, if CVA and SF agree on anything, it's that this perfect game is so enjoyable because it is something that both sides take very "seriously" and even a bit "personally." It's gritty, it's nasty...it's something we can allow ourselves be passionate about, become heated about, and really just care about. It can go too far, does go too far, but at least in a war between our organizations you won't tend to have the cop out of "hahaha, you're taking it seriously so you lose." And besides...beyond the forum drama, I prefer a game of cat and mouse in-game to slide-show any day.
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:22:00 - [154] If you don't know how to argue with an expert in the field, don't argue. You'll look like an idiot. San Matari Official forums
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:30:00 - [155] Originally by: Keorythe I believe every corp/alliance who has done empire war knows how fun it is to "dislodge" an enemy from npc stations. I also believe anyone who has every fought you knows empire war (and stations) is your specialty. Nice try there. We have done it in the past. Just because you might lack the stamina and commitment to do it yourselves doesn't make it "impossible". If you are saying its "no fun" to fight us in empire then you are right. It isn't "fun" for you, but nevertheless its a valuable weapon in our arsenal and something you are eventually going to have to grapple with if you hope to demonstrate yourselves the "holders" of the KBP pipe to Providence. Quote: What you've done Ms. Constantine is helped this alliance separate the wheat from the chaff. Shown us how to settle into a real war footing. Given us experience in combat logistics, rethinking profit strategies, and even how to setup our POS's. We've recruited new members and corporations willing to be involved on such a footing. Everybody says that when they are losing corporations and membership Keorythe. Maybe for you its true. Maybe it isn't. Time will ultimately tell. "I might not have meant anything by it"
Mourn Navarre Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:31:00 - [156] I have to say I very much enjoyed that report. Although I think Jade was crazy to even think about ambushing a dread with that many bombers, I do have to say it is nice to see she at least tried instead of sitting on her butt and watching. I also applaud the quick fallback plan of using the bombers in other ways. After the initial mission failure, the bombers showed some worth afterwards. Too many people get demoralized when the initial plan fails and cannot come up with something else to try, or prefer to sit on their hands and do nothing when things do not work out as planned. As for the 'spin' thing, as an old hand at EVE not to mention someone with a long history in the RP scene (if the UK council hasn't figured out who I am by now they can bend over and kiss a certain part of anatomy:)), most RP alliances do NOT use alt spies so one can only mostly base their information on heresay and plain old observation. So when you start to see members and corporations start to drop off like flies, it does make one feel that things are falling apart.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:32:00 - [157] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Jade Constantine I wouldn't expect you guys to enjoy it. Actually, if CVA and SF agree on anything, it's that this perfect game is so enjoyable because it is something that both sides take very "seriously" and even a bit "personally." It's gritty, it's nasty...it's something we can allow ourselves be passionate about, become heated about, and really just care about. Ah Garreck but thats you. You're the bear we hoped to bait. Its less fun for the Judas Goat "I might not have meant anything by it"
Mourn Navarre Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:37:00 - [158] Edited by: Mourn Navarre on 14/01/2008 19:42:19 Originally by: Jade Constantine Ah Garreck but thats you. You're the bear we hoped to bait. Its less fun for the Judas Goat Don't mind Garreck. He likes to go to sleep at gates so he can get killed. :) Not that much different than the loss Siobhan took once. Now I am starting to feel old thinking about the old days.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:44:00 - [159] Originally by: Mourn Navarre Don't mind Garreck. He likes to go to sleep at gates so he can get killed. :) Not that much different than the loss Siobhan took once. Can't think of that ever having happened to me, to be honest. I do tend to make myself readily available for combat, however. You'll want to create an alt corp or something, though; newb corp postings tend to get nerfed around here...
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:44:00 - [160] Originally by: Spoon Thumb I think -7- are just a bit hacked off at getting told they lost after they just won, after months of fighting in which they had war dec from not only star fraction, but Tri as well for much of that time. This is your problem in perception. Nobody told Sev3rance "they lost". I said that Sev3rance were on the point of breaking down into a defeated force during the TRI intervention against CVA. They were spared by TRI pulling out and leaving CVA free to travel freely and deploy capital ships again in Sev3rance's defense. What the TRI war in Providence proved more than anything is that Sev3rance cannot hold space without significant CVA intervention road the clock. You are going to keep on being annoyed and irritated by my assessments and analysis of the situation Spoon Thumb unless you read what I actually write - rather than what you think (or wish) I'd written. There is a lot of difference between saying X side "lost". And X side were "saved" by circumstance Y and allied force Z. If what you are actually saying is that you think Sev3rance would have survived in KBP without CVA support then thats your opinion. I think its wrong obviously, but at least have the courtesy and courage to come out and say that directly. "I might not have meant anything by it"
Mourn Navarre Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:50:00 - [161] Originally by: Garreck Can't think of that ever having happened to me, to be honest. I do tend to make myself readily available for combat, however. You'll want to create an alt corp or something, though; newb corp postings tend to get nerfed around here... This was several years ago with my original character before I gave him up. This is my main now. In fact, this was back when Yulai was a super highway so it was quite some time ago. And I remember you sitting on the gate in a cruiser so being a war target I shot you but you didn't shoot back so I stopped. But then I figured, if I don't take you out, someone else is going to so I finished off your ship. After all, you were on a travel route towards Rens. Better me than someone else. :)
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:50:00 - [162] Congratulations to SF/UK for having the balls to try something new! You are correct. When faced with a force that looked conventionally inassailable, most groups would simply have slunk away and hid. Instead, you came up with something creative and innovative and gave it a whirl. No, it didn't work. But heck yeah, he who fails to innovate, who fails to try, will never succeed at anything worthwhile. I touch my brow in respect, for the worthiness of the attempt. May you have many more, and be dogged with an unfair abundance of success.
Kovid Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:32:00 - [163] The nice thing about Star Fraction is the opportunity to try out these things. And we are always looking for more creative solutions. And of course it has to be done with style! I've enjoyed the previous phase of our operation, and I will enjoy the upcoming ones. Fedaykin was a blast. And best of all it fits so well within what Star Fraction is. I can't wait to do it again. The scalability is beautiful as well. It easily allows other people to join in who want to join in the fight.
Swamp Ziro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:37:00 - [164] Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 14/01/2008 22:37:10 Originally by: Kovid And best of all it fits so well within what Star Fraction is. stylish, dramatic, but useless? (boosh)
Grishius Amarr HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.14 23:02:00 - [165] This thread needs more goon comments. Somehow I think only they can actually comprehend what they are reading.
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.14 23:03:00 - [166] Originally by: Mistress Suffering No, it didn't work. But heck yeah, he who fails to innovate, who fails to try, will never succeed at anything worthwhile. Well at least made a hell of a video . Any chance we can have this uploaded on eve files or eve tube ???
Daelan Lok'errt OMNYX Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.01.14 23:11:00 - [167] One of the best reports I've read. To learn about the background was nice too. Good luck with your fight.
Octavinus Augustus Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.15 07:49:00 - [168] Originally by: Jade Constantine Some more or less irrelevant argumentation. You clearly avoid (intentionally or not?) to relate to the point of my posting. In the Amarr Loyalist Block we have a lot of OoC respect for the people who are bringing it on ingame and a lot less respect for those who choose to bring their battles onto the forums. You obviously belong to the second group. When you ask how it can be that CVA can respect Tri when they attack and "get defensive" when you do, the answer is simple really. Organisations like TRI, U'K, CI and most others we have fought have brought it ingame and left it there. You tend to bring your socalled psy-ops onto the forums throwing what is plainly spoken a heapload of garbage at your opponents. A clear example is your current "campaign" against Severence, who according to you can't stand on their own feet. It is only a matter of a few weeks since it was the other way round: CVA couldn't survive in Providence without letting Severence and our other "meatshields" do our fighting for us. Whatever your talents are ingame they are clearly overshadowed by your "performance" here on forums. In a post above you asked me the following question: Originally by: Jade Constantine That's the game. Why not play it? I could ask the same of you. Why don't you play the game and leave it at that? Why do you feel the need to come onto the forums the way you do? It is your right to do so of course. CCP will see to it if your overstep your "Forum rights" - but you'd probably know this a lot better than me. But please don't angle for the respect we give to organisations like U'K, Tri, CI and many others given your own forum behaviour. It's like coming onto the forums asking: "Why don't you show me some respect while I disrespect you all?". I really can't put it any simpler than this. If you cannot (or choose not to) understand my point then so be it. I'll leave it at this. Q: How many Amarr does it take to change a light bulb? A: None, we have Minnies to do the menial chores.
Karn Mithralia Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.01.15 08:39:00 - [169] Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 15/01/2008 08:42:38 Octavinus, with respect, I think you've missed the mark in your judgment here. No one would argue Jade is not verbose on forums - thats obvious. But that does not mean Jade or SF don't bring it in game. Far from it. I have seen SF throw themselves against stronger forces relentlessly of late and for that they have earned much respect among U'K. It's a rare trait to find people willing to fight when the odds are stacked against them, SF are one of the few willing to do so. Lets be honest, you too have one of the best spin masters out there - Hardin. Does Hardin's forum presence mean CVA fight any less? Of course not, its just another element to add to the mix, another way you wage war. These two things are not mutually incompatible. -----------------------------------------
Hardin Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.01.15 09:11:00 - [170] silence terrorist dog ;) to all those bothering to argue with jade: don't. fact is it was a good try and op by sf and uk as I acknowledged elsewhere before this thread was even started. similarly there can be no arguing with the fact that sf and uk failed in their objective to kill a cva capital, losing around 50 ships and 7 pos in the process. I would suggest that cva and friends now leave this thread alone now and let jade and co continue their celebrations in peace :) ------------------------------
Kai Zion Amarr The Zion Accounts	Posted - 2008.01.15 10:37:00 - [171] Originally by: Hardin let jade and co continue their celebrations in peace :) That's right, listen to the Slaver Lord and leave those poor Fractionistas alone! Let there be peace in our time! Perhaps to speed things along, we could start negotiations for the temporary handover of Providence to the free captains, so that it may flourish as a beacon of freedom and limitless potential in this oppressive and finite cluster! I know in your heart that you are open to the idea, Hardin old man. Don't hide that inner bear, embrace it. As an uninvolved, impartial third party I volunteer my services in helping oversee. My fee will be the penthouse level of the Inflatable House, and some skittles. Red ones. Congratulating you on taking this first wonderful step forward, Kai Eh? What's that? You feel misrepresented? Well damn...do I still get skittles?
Tecam Hund Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.15 13:09:00 - [172] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus Originally by: Jade Constantine Some more or less irrelevant argumentation. When you ask how it can be that CVA can respect Tri when they attack and "get defensive" when you do, the answer is simple really. Organisations like TRI, U'K, CI and most others we have fought have brought it ingame and left it there. You tend to bring your socalled psy-ops onto the forums throwing what is plainly spoken a heapload of garbage at your opponents. ... Whatever your talents are ingame they are clearly overshadowed by your "performance" here on forums. Forums are part of the game.
Swamp Ziro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.15 13:13:00 - [173] Originally by: Tecam Hund Originally by: Octavinus Augustus Originally by: Jade Constantine Some more or less irrelevant argumentation. When you ask how it can be that CVA can respect Tri when they attack and "get defensive" when you do, the answer is simple really. Organisations like TRI, U'K, CI and most others we have fought have brought it ingame and left it there. You tend to bring your socalled psy-ops onto the forums throwing what is plainly spoken a heapload of garbage at your opponents. ... Whatever your talents are ingame they are clearly overshadowed by your "performance" here on forums. Forums are part of the game. Of course they are. But you still need to win in-game too to capitalize... Else we wouldn't have needed to siege RIT at all!
Tecam Hund Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.15 13:18:00 - [174] Originally by: Swamp Ziro Originally by: Tecam Hund Originally by: Octavinus Augustus Originally by: Jade Constantine Some more or less irrelevant argumentation. When you ask how it can be that CVA can respect Tri when they attack and "get defensive" when you do, the answer is simple really. Organisations like TRI, U'K, CI and most others we have fought have brought it ingame and left it there. You tend to bring your socalled psy-ops onto the forums throwing what is plainly spoken a heapload of garbage at your opponents. ... Whatever your talents are ingame they are clearly overshadowed by your "performance" here on forums. Forums are part of the game. Of course they are. But you still need to win in-game too to capitalize... Else we wouldn't have needed to siege RIT at all! I don't argue with that. Just point out that there is no point in getting worked up when someone brings it out onto the forums. Our opponent doesn't seem to realize that playing the game involves using the forums.
Swamp Ziro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.15 13:21:00 - [175] It's as much their right to call your BS as much as it your right to post it tbh. That's what PR is all about
Virgil Aquilis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.15 13:51:00 - [176] Originally by: Tecam Hund Originally by: Swamp Ziro Originally by: Tecam Hund Originally by: Octavinus Augustus Originally by: Jade Constantine Some more or less irrelevant argumentation. When you ask how it can be that CVA can respect Tri when they attack and "get defensive" when you do, the answer is simple really. Organisations like TRI, U'K, CI and most others we have fought have brought it ingame and left it there. You tend to bring your socalled psy-ops onto the forums throwing what is plainly spoken a heapload of garbage at your opponents. ... Whatever your talents are ingame they are clearly overshadowed by your "performance" here on forums. Forums are part of the game. Of course they are. But you still need to win in-game too to capitalize... Else we wouldn't have needed to siege RIT at all! I don't argue with that. Just point out that there is no point in getting worked up when someone brings it out onto the forums. Our opponent doesn't seem to realize that playing the game involves using the forums. That's okay, we're here to burn and salt the earth for them :D Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Tecam Hund Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.15 16:23:00 - [177] Originally by: Swamp Ziro Of course they are. But you still need to win in-game too to capitalize... Else we wouldn't have needed to siege RIT at all! I don't argue with that. Just saying that there is no point in getting worked up when someone brings it out onto the forums. Our opponent doesn't seem to realize that playing the game involves using the forums.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.15 18:26:00 - [178] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus You clearly avoid (intentionally or not?) to relate to the point of my posting. Not in the least Octavinus. I believe I am addressing what you are actually saying here. And more to the point I'm discussing the issues rather than the personalities involved. If I'm upsetting you that I'm not seeing the need to defend my own name against your personal comments thats simply because I don't consider those comments meaningful or in the least part pertinent to the discussion at hand. Now I notice you are trying your hand at a certain degree of "pseudo psyops spin" yourself by attempting to claim that SF is an organization that doesn't "bring it ingame". Completely ridiculous of course and utterly belied by the campaign results so far that show an estimated 28billion damage to our specific Terminus-Est targets (Sev, CSA, Borg) and an estimated 30billion damage to general Amarrian block providence targets over the timescale of the campaign. I'm seeing ship and capsule losses in the thousands for your allied friends in Providence. I'm not seeing an organization that in any shape or form has failed to "bring it". So in complete lack of material fact to support your allegation that we are a forum-only force I'm forced to conclude that you are deploying some kind of psychological/warfare goading/baiting or whatnot yourself in that post Octavinus which conclusion makes your actual claim deeply hypocritical. Quote: When you ask how it can be that CVA can respect Tri when they attack and "get defensive" when you do, the answer is simple really. Organisations like TRI, U'K, CI and most others we have fought have brought it ingame and left it there. You tend to bring your socalled psy-ops onto the forums throwing what is plainly spoken a heapload of garbage at your opponents. Here I think we're getting the meat of your problem Octavinus. Its not that SF is an organization that fails to bring fights "in-game". Its that we are an organization that fight you with direct action in space and against your allies AND we are fighting a war for the hearts and minds of the region with public relations and counter to your traditional CVA "spin". I do see ALOT of frustration from your side that there is a voice opposed to the status quo and you are now challenged on your traditional home turf in Providence. Quote: A clear example is your current "campaign" against Severence, who according to you can't stand on their own feet. It is only a matter of a few weeks since it was the other way round: CVA couldn't survive in Providence without letting Severence and our other "meatshields" do our fighting for us. Both are true. Sev3rance cannot survive in KBP without CVA support. CVA cannot survive in providence without the allied support of Sev/CSA/Slyph/Paxton/IAC/Goons etc when the chips are down. There is no contradiction in the position you highlight. If its a clear example of anything its in your over-sensitivity to any mention of this reality in the clear light of day. Quote: Whatever your talents are ingame they are clearly overshadowed by your "performance" here on forums. Then I imagine you'll be happy to agree to a spaceship duel with me Octavinus and you can show me just how overrated my talents in space actually are I imagine. Might even be fun? "I might not have meant anything by it"
Centra Spike Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:54:00 - [179] Stealth bombers at dawn? >Truth conquers all chains.
Blitzkrieg Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.01.15 20:09:00 - [180] Ma chere Jade, I did enjoy reading you, I must say, it is this kind of "out of the box" strategies and concepts that keep us on the sharp edge. Although, great in design and execution, it seemed to have yield a mediocre result on the tactical field. Yet, what is most important for any player is the solid presence of a fun element in this sometimes too slow paced pvp game. It Seems like the UK&SF pilots had tons of it. Thank you for your combat reports, a welcome change from the daily substantial void of these forums. Sincerement.

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