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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.01.14 17:08:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Kadavreski Whoa, i didn't expect half as many responses
OK, i get it now - ta very much for the explaination all! (i fly a caracal so it doesn't really effect me anyway)
Dont understimate the power of the forum-hoes -------------------------------------------
[Video]The Inquisition II - Vanguardian |
Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2008.01.14 18:06:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Hannobaal Well, being able to fit a web on the blaster Catalyst would be nice.
I'd be awesome, awesome, I tell you
Should be done if you ask me anyway. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Twin blade
Minmatar The Triangle Exa Nation
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Posted - 2008.01.14 18:44:00 -
[33]
The thrasher is deadly to any frig T1 or T2 if used right and If used with AC's can get some nice damage maybe kill a poory set up curiser.
Death is great rember where all dying to get there. |
Maeltstome
Minmatar D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.15 23:28:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Twin blade The thrasher is deadly to any frig T1 or T2 if used right and If used with AC's can get some nice damage maybe kill a poory set up curiser.
and before the nos nerf, was an amazingly pesky fly to swat. 7 nos + 1 remote shield trans, medium shield booster II, 2x shield booster amp, fitting / whatever.
me and a friend had some fun with this setup. The hyperion that couldnt kill us however was a little annoyed.
Btw, check the stats - cormorant cant get an opti of about 95km with spike + skills. It's funny -------
[12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2008.01.16 00:20:00 -
[35]
The most fun thing I've seen yet on destroyers is a T1 arty trasher one-volleying an Interdictor when I was flying with a very small random gang and we never thought we could touch him... no scrambling, just "POP!!" and lots of lolz
And with the recent pricefall in t2 equipment it's even cheaper fitting a weak destroyer with some nice guns... But anyway Im sure at least a Harpy is better in almost every aspect than a cormorant - and at aproximately the same cost if fitting T2 equipment (the price of many guns and cheap ship vs few guns and only a little bit more expensive ship) - I'm a nice guy!!
But hook me up with some pew pew, because I'm really bored... |
Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.01.16 00:24:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Pinky Denmark The most fun thing I've seen yet on destroyers is a T1 arty trasher one-volleying an Interdictor when I was flying with a very small random gang and we never thought we could touch him... no scrambling, just "POP!!" and lots of lolz
I usually run an 200mm AC Thrasher. I'll have to try an arty thrasher again. ;-)
-Liang --
Originally by: "QProQ"
When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
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Jester Banks
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Posted - 2008.01.16 12:42:00 -
[37]
Ive been playing a Cormorant for the past week. My main issue is that as a Caldari are we not supposed to be uber missile dudes? And yet you get only one missile bay. Whats that all about?
If I go into 0.5 space - which okay is probably a bit on the dodgy side for me - I can be fighting 4 or 5 rats who are flinging missiles at me non stop. Almost 10 to 15 missiles can hit me between me firing ONE off.
I've never seen any suggested layouts for equiping one either which makes me think that people get them and get rid of them fast.
Be interested to see some builds though.
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Gartel Reiman
Project F3
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Posted - 2008.01.16 13:03:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Jester Banks Ive been playing a Cormorant for the past week. My main issue is that as a Caldari are we not supposed to be uber missile dudes? And yet you get only one missile bay. Whats that all about?
Caldari are the sniper race, as well as the missile race. Look at the Merlin, Cormorant, Moa, Ferox, Rokh, Harpy, Eagle (and to a lesser extent, the Vulture) - all of these are designed as long-range railboats, and they each get at least a 10% bonus to range per level. Gallente and Caldari both use Hybrid turrets, and while the Gallente specialise in blasters for close-in damage (and also use lots of drones), Caldari specialise in railguns for long-range ability (and also use lots of missiles).
Let's face it, if every Caldari ship was just a missile-spewing shield tanker things would get a bit dull. I think your gripe is just that there is only the one destroyer, so you don't have a destroyer-sized brother to the Kestrel, Caracal, Drake and Raven. Given the design brief of destroyers, it makes more sense for them to be long-range turret platforms so this isn't that surprising. If it's any consolation, the T2 destroyer (interdictor) has 6 missile hardpoints and gets bonuses to rockets and light missiles...
Quote: I've never seen any suggested layouts for equiping one either which makes me think that people get them and get rid of them fast.
Be interested to see some builds though.
Ironically, there are three setup threads for the Cormorant in the sticky, which is as many as for all the other destroyers combined. That said, I don't think destroyers have a great deal of subtlety when it comes to fitting. It's all about filling the highs with long-range turrets, and either putting some wimpy shield tank in the mids, or going all-out for a sniper setup. There's a good discussion in the linked threads.
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Tassi
Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2008.01.16 13:07:00 -
[39]
Whats wrong with them?
They get one-volleyed by javelin torps, that is whats wrong with them
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2008.01.16 13:26:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Pinky Denmark The most fun thing I've seen yet on destroyers is a T1 arty trasher one-volleying an Interdictor when I was flying with a very small random gang and we never thought we could touch him... no scrambling, just "POP!!" and lots of lolz
I usually run an 200mm AC Thrasher. I'll have to try an arty thrasher again. ;-)
-Liang
I dislike the disability to fit a buffer (like, MSE) on a arty Thrasher. That said, I use 150mm AC II Thrashers, simply because 150s are dirt cheap unlike 200s which are 0.9M per piece in Rens as we speak.
Someone is jacking up 200mm AC II prices. I used to buy them for 535K a month ago. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2008.01.16 13:32:00 -
[41]
bulls-eye - in general pvp destroyers in general have a worse chance to survive than T1 frigates, being slower than T1 frigates and not pulling enough dps to compete against bigger ships like cruisers.
It's not that bad, it's just worse than most other options around except for a few specialized tasks and about every EVE player would like to strengthen them a little or at least introduce tier 2 destroyers.
Pinky
BTW: Railguns are very usefull and caldari would be severely hampered if we didn't have gunships... - I'm a nice guy!!
But hook me up with some pew pew, because I'm really bored... |
Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2008.01.16 13:37:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Pinky Denmark bulls-eye - in general pvp destroyers in general have a worse chance to survive than T1 frigates, being slower than T1 frigates and not pulling enough dps to compete against bigger ships like cruisers.
Not really. They've got roughly the same survival odds vs a cruiser as a T1 frig (unless we're talking about getting shot up by HMLs), just do double the DPS. DPS of short-range fitted destroyers is preety good, really; but some lack slots to web/scram/speed-mod, etc.
Versus a AF/frig/inty, destroyers fare better then T1 frigs tank-wise, obviously, due to having more buffer.
I would be very scared of going versus a skilled AC (or arty, for that matter) Thrasher pilot in a AF (although, AFs are preety gimped themselves).
Just that one more slot would help them so much. It doesn't make sense they've got less mids/lows then combat frigates, imo.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Mo Steel
Caldari Sanguis vix Dignatio
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Posted - 2008.01.16 14:21:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Number 17 There is nothing wrong with destroyers, they are great salvaging ships. And no, fitting it full of salvagers/tractor beams is NOT an exploit.
I agree; my Amarr Destroyer makes an excellent wreck eater. Need some tech 2 variants plz with bonus to tractor range and salvage cycle rate. -----
Want a sig made? Eve-Mail me, signatures made for 5 million isk each. |
Corstaad
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Posted - 2008.01.16 15:17:00 -
[44]
There is nothing wrong with Dessie's, you just can't figure out how to use them.
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Zun Szu
Amarr CounterMand Nocturnal Legion
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Posted - 2008.01.16 16:17:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Just that one more slot would help them so much. It doesn't make sense they've got less mids/lows then combat frigates, imo.
I agree 100%. It makes no sense at all. They are broken. Looks like people like them for salvaging but that is really it. Some seem to find a niche and use them but I see no need in spending all the isk on the guns for the risk involved. I would much rather fly my bleeder punisher because I feel more confident in surviving in that then the destroyer. ------------------------------ Poncho: You're bleeding, man. Blain: I ain't got time to bleed. [Poncho shoots a bunch of grenades up to the top of the cliff] Poncho: You got time to duck? |
Lil Mule
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Posted - 2008.01.16 16:23:00 -
[46]
Destroyer 1 additional slot campaign of '08 - Im in. Destroyers could be a heck of a lot of fun if they just had one more slot.
Come on CCP, we want Destroy fun!!
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Reto
The Last Resort
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Posted - 2008.01.16 16:51:00 -
[47]
atm they: -deal friglike dmg -need twice the amout of guns for it -have the same hp as frigs -weighing a load more -consequentely are slow and less agile -have a sig radius twice of a frig thus easy to kill.
dessies need more resilence on the battlefield. actually 20-30m less signature radius and 400-500 more base armour/shield.
or less sig and removing their RoF penalty.
Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
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Twin blade
Minmatar The Triangle Exa Nation
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Posted - 2008.01.16 17:04:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Reto atm they: -deal friglike dmg -need twice the amout of guns for it -have the same hp as frigs -weighing a load more -consequentely are slow and less agile -have a sig radius twice of a frig thus easy to kill.
dessies need more resilence on the battlefield. actually 20-30m less signature radius and 400-500 more base armour/shield.
or less sig and removing their RoF penalty.
I agree with a tad more hp and a little less Sig but you remove the ROF penalty andf you risk making them overpowerd.
Take the thrasher its a dam mean little bugger and thats with out maxed skills max them out and with out the ROF drawback you make it overpowerd if used right. Death is great rember where all dying to get there. |
Revocks Bishop
Amarr Slug Storm Squadron
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Posted - 2008.01.16 17:10:00 -
[49]
In all honesty, I've flown destroyers to simply get a destroyer on the killboard. On a 0.0 gatecamp, I'll use it to help pop interceptors, but it still doesn't do enough damage to drop one before a decent pilot jets away from me. Plus being a mega laser boat (Coercer,) the fall-off is quite easy to escape.
They're good for salvaging...
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2008.01.16 17:36:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Reto atm they: -deal friglike dmg
They outdamage AFs. That's not friglike damage.
Originally by: Reto
-need twice the amout of guns for it
True.
Originally by: Reto
-have the same hp as frigs
Not true. They are significantly better HP-wise then frigs, maybe 40-50% total.
Originally by: Reto
-weighing a load more -consequentely are slow and less agile
They're more agile then AFs though, and often slightly faster or matching speed.
Originally by: Reto
-have a sig radius twice of a frig thus easy to kill.
True. Then again, webbed frigates die the same or faster really.
Dessies would be much better if they had the same medium/low slot amount as combat frigates, though. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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vostok
Minmatar Suns Of Korhal deadspace society
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Posted - 2008.01.16 18:03:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Megan Maynard amarr destroyer is actually pretty good, gets nice range with small turrets and great tracking.
I have a problem with the minmatar ship. Even with destroyers V your small auto's don't reach all that far with ranged ammo in even.
Not sure about the other two.
You're meant to use artillery on the Thrasher. Tech 2 250 mms with nuclear ammo, at least one tracking enhancer, a web (in case they come real close), and a target painter.
hmm i dont like the way you said that at all, i dont think your ''meant'' to fit ships in 1 certain way, personally i wouldn't ever fit arty to a thrasher. try something with a little more punch and you may be pleasantly supprised, my fit for a thrasher goes something like:
200mm and launcher in high, with afterburner medium shield extender and ''something'' (maybe an invul field extender, web or whatever) with some power diagnostics or shield power relays in low.
i havent done this fitting in ages but frankly destroyers nulldestroynull level 1 missions where frigates get owned, i believe that alone is enough of a use for one, not to mention their use as salvagers (and here i must say they suck, their capacitors just arent't good enough and a battleship is far better due to larger cargo and the ability to tank and lend firepower int he form of drones - for those lucky enough to have 2 accounts)
destroyers are fine imo, i would really like to see some T2 destroyers however in an AF kind of style designed for destroying and not like the interdictors.
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Galen Silas
Gallente Lucky Hydra Corp SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.16 18:12:00 -
[52]
I like my Catalyst tbh. Destroyers are just one of those ships that need a high skill maintenance to be flown effectively. I have managed to kill cruisers in mine, hard as it is to believe, it's true. There more of a ship that requires not only personal knowledge of how to direct your ships velocity and orbiting distance from your target, high lvl skills in a lot of areas directed for combat are a MUST. all your cap and power skills should be maxed to get the most effectiveness out of them. not to mention the loadout. hardwirings and rigs help out a lot too, but thats optional.
Thats pretty much it. Yes, i love stating my opinion... because people don't like it! |
chrisss0r
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Posted - 2008.01.16 18:15:00 -
[53]
destroyers are overpowered, that is what is wrong with them
nerf destroyers!
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Shaka Quatuic
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Posted - 2008.01.16 18:27:00 -
[54]
actually, there may be a better role for destroyers to play. While I agree that the addition of a single slot be it a mid or a low would help enormously, I just don't see dessies gaining much popularity without a proper fleet role. To this end, I would suggest giving destroyers a bonus specifically to recon probe scan times at least on par with a covops frigate, but preferably better. Think about it... the primary role of a destroyer in a modern navy (at least up to the last 20 years or so... most major navies are handing these jobs off to frigates now) is to ferret out targets that other fleet assets are highly vulnerable to. in the case of modern wet navies those targets are typically submarines and mines. in EvE, those targets would be any target vessel hidden/safespotted in a system.
while this bonus might step on the toes of astrometrics frigates and covops to a degree, it would not apply to scan probes at all, so those pilots (myself included) shouldnt have much to whine over. as a covops pilot myself, I would much rather have a more combat-worthy vessel when taking part in fleet ops, as I feel that a covops frigate should be more of a strategic intelligence platform than a tactical one.
in any case, I like the extra slot idea, as well as the Tier 2... or perhaps a second T2 variant of the existing destroyers to cover the tactical recon role. maybe make them like baby marauders, with reduced turret hardpoints, but higher damage bonuses and tankability, along with tractor and salvage scanner range bonuses to boot.
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Michus Danether
Aristotle Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.16 20:31:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Shaka Quatuic Edited by: Shaka Quatuic on 16/01/2008 18:41:31 actually, there may be a better role for destroyers to play. While I agree that the addition of a single slot be it a mid or a low would help enormously, I just don't see dessies gaining much popularity without a proper fleet role. To this end, I would suggest giving destroyers a bonus specifically to recon probe scan times at least on par with a covops frigate, but preferably better. Think about it... the primary role of a destroyer in a modern navy (at least up to the last 20 years or so... most major navies are handing these jobs off to frigates now) is to ferret out targets that other fleet assets are highly vulnerable to. in the case of modern wet navies those targets are typically submarines and mines. in EvE, those targets would be any target vessel hidden/safespotted in a system.
while this bonus might step on the toes of astrometrics frigates and covops to a degree, it would not apply to scan probes at all, so those pilots (myself included) shouldnt have much to whine over. as a covops pilot myself, I would much rather have a more combat-worthy vessel when taking part in fleet ops, as I feel that a covops frigate should be more of a strategic intelligence platform than a tactical one. Furthermore, a recon destroyer should have accuracy bonuses to it's probes in addition to the scan time bonus - if a destroyer drops a probe, everybody in a system should be afraid, simply because a destroyer is hunting and could be locking somebody in a matter of seconds... covops frigates never do that
in any case, I like the extra slot idea, as well as the Tier 2... or perhaps a second T2 variant of the existing destroyers to cover the tactical recon role. maybe make them like baby marauders, with reduced turret hardpoints, but higher damage bonuses and tankability, along with tractor and salvage scanner range bonuses to boot.
I actually really like the idea of a recon probe specialized (tier 2/tech2?) destroyer. With a CPU use reduction for recon probe launchers only perhaps, just so it will be able to fight/tackle and probe as well. I really like this idea!
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Maeltstome
Minmatar D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.16 20:42:00 -
[56]
silly idea imo. Destroyers, as the name implies, are pure gun platforms. Why bother with Electronics when you could just get another lo or mid for that bit more damagae or range.
Although personally i see exactly where CCP are coming from with destroyer slot layouts - they serve a purpose, and smacking out 200 dps in a 1mil ship i decent enough for nailing frigs. My only gripe is they need more HP's, i'd happily loose a bit of speed for some serious HP increases. -------
[12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF |
Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Spaceways
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Posted - 2008.01.16 21:28:00 -
[57]
What's wrong with destroyers? There are far too few to choose from.
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Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.01.16 21:34:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Maeltstome silly idea imo. Destroyers, as the name implies, are pure gun platforms. Why bother with Electronics when you could just get another lo or mid for that bit more damagae or range.
Although personally i see exactly where CCP are coming from with destroyer slot layouts - they serve a purpose, and smacking out 200 dps in a 1mil ship i decent enough for nailing frigs. My only gripe is they need more HP's, i'd happily loose a bit of speed for some serious HP increases.
I'd like to see assault destroyers... but then again, I have destroyers 5. =/
-Liang
--
Originally by: "QProQ"
When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
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Opertone
Caldari Rulers Of Mankind
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Posted - 2008.01.16 21:39:00 -
[59]
a destroyer can't break a tech 2 ship's tank, i tested it against an enyo assault frigate, i was in 125 mm MWD and rail gun cormorant and i could not do a scratch to it with rail guns. Since cormorant/catalyst can only do thermal/kinetic damage, they are good for taking out non tanked ships. They accomplish lvl 2 missions quick and easily, they can kill a kestrel or a merlin, but their role is unclear. There are no ships that have trouble killing tech 1 untanked, slow going frigates. So why use destroyers?
Maybe a thrasher/catalyst can be good with artilleries or blasters. But still not good enough to do any damage and tackle the target, destroyers have no cap to tank.
I think that the destroyers should not have -25% penalty to rate of fire, a blaster harpy can do more than the destroyers can. I can't understand sniping in PVP. It is either you are not primary and snipe all you want. Or the victim get in close to you and kills you with close range weapons, there is no way to utilize the range bonus on the destroyers in solo PVP. It can be used as anti capsule support only.
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Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.01.16 21:41:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Opertone a destroyer can't break a tech 2 ship's tank, i tested it against an enyo assault frigate, i was in 125 mm MWD and rail gun cormorant and i could not do a scratch to it with rail guns.
I've solo killed a tanked Harpy in my Thrasher.
-Liang --
Originally by: "QProQ"
When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
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