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Low-tech "mini-command ship" for newbs

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Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Spaceways	Posted - 2008.01.14 23:46:00 - [1] Hey I started a new toon to be a corp leader and fleet commander. At this point less than a week old, and can only fly frigates, but has acquired a following of fellow newbies and have run L1 and L2 missions with them (depending on how many frigates in the gang). While they train up to better damage dealers, I want to train a ship that can support and lead the fleet to greater victories. What sort of ship and modules would make a good "mini-command ship" before I reach the battlecruiser stage? I favor Amarr and Gallente stuff, but feel free to share your best setup of any race. Should it be a destroyer or cruiser, and how would you fit it? PVE and PVP setups would be different, I imagine, so go to town on that idea.
Law Enforcer	Posted - 2008.01.15 00:25:00 - [2] no, just no.
Shardrael Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.01.15 00:38:00 - [3] the idea of a flagship type thing is not really in this game, if you want to run missions well though train up a command ship or battleship, commandships and their tech 1 variants provide bonuses to your fleet, however it is a very small bonus until you are maxed on your bonus skills, probably 2.5-3 months training total just for bonuses.
Kaarii	Posted - 2008.01.15 00:41:00 - [4] I think that this is a great topic actually. A great way to start building team-work skills, etc. for future fleet stuff. My ship suggestion: Vexor or arbi with a set of armor/shield repair drones. Then maybe a remote rep, tracking link, energy transfer, whatever 'buff' stuff you can fit to help your brood of frigs :) More of a mini carrier than command ship, but still cool, imho.
MenanceWhite Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.15 00:44:00 - [5] Edited by: MenanceWhite on 15/01/2008 00:46:52 Originally by: Law Enforcer no, just no. Posted by an alt with nothing really constructive in it. There's no real gang boosting modules you can fit, since they all have superhigh CPU need which is reduced by battlecruisers and commandships role bonus. Only thing you can do at this stage is to have highest leadership skills in the gang, then set yourself as fleet booster. TBH few times I did level2 missions on a frig I've found it needing any more than 2 frigs. In support, something that uses remote reps/shielboost or cap transfer. Since you're a new character and wants quick progress, I reccomend just focusing at either leadership + getting battlecruisers + selfsupport skills or the repair modules + selfsupport at first. by selfsupport I mean the ones that adds ships maximum grid, cpu, hp, cap regen --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.01.15 01:21:00 - [6] closest thing to a mini command ship would prob. be a Drake because it has a similar (or better) tank to one. It suffers from very poor DPS however and has to use all it's med/low slots to do this. Still, makes a nice damage absorber in nearly all circumstances. WTS Moros
Wu Jiun	Posted - 2008.01.15 02:01:00 - [7] A logistics is maybe not exactly what you are looking for. But you can turn the tides in a battle or just make life better for your corpmates in pve. Armor or shieldtransfers and also energy transfers have broad application potential for all kinds of gangs in eve imo. Its still a lot to train though. There are t1 versions who do have a (naturally quite limited) support capacity too. Exequeror or augoror might be worth looking at in your situation. Also if you're done you have made a good step towards commandships anyway as the fleet ones require logistics.
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Spaceways	Posted - 2008.01.15 03:12:00 - [8] Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 15/01/2008 03:14:49 Considering that my gang is of frigates but may soon progress to destroyers, and I have a good start on leadership skills, the question is, can I help my fleet more by performing some special role than simply by adding DPS as another fighter? What I want is a fleet that can handle higher level missions and complexes than beginners usually should, maybe even up to the L3 when we have a few destroyers and a cruiser or two. I see a couple of possible strategies: 1) Just be a super duper tanker, warp in first, and allow the fighters to take their sweet time killing stuff. 2) Some kind of logistics/shield repping role. 3) Maybe combine (1) or (2) with salvaging. Probably in PVP I wouldn't bother with any fancy ship setups. If I get into PVP it will likely be by tagging along somebody's big fleet, and my entire corp would probably just play tackler/antitackler. So assuming the above is for PVE, what would you suggest? Destroyer, cruiser, or even industrial? I want a low-cost T1 solution here, as I said in the OP. No battlecruiser or T2 ship.
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.01.15 04:39:00 - [9] maybe you should join the newbie training corp Eve University, they can probably answer all your questions with much detail and more
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Spaceways	Posted - 2008.01.15 06:01:00 - [10] Originally by: L70Rogue maybe you should join the newbie training corp Eve University, they can probably answer all your questions with much detail and more Maybe you think you're special and not just another alt spamming recruitment messages?
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Spaceways	Posted - 2008.01.15 06:06:00 - [11] Let's try asking the question in a different way: I found from practice that four frigates (with 2 or 3 day old characters) can effectively do L2 missions. However, they are going to lose at least one ship a fair portion of the time. As FC (well, SC, to be honest) what can I bring to the fight to reduce the chances of my newbs getting nuked? Should I fit a ship for pure tanking and run in first? If so, what ship and how to fit it? Once we answer that question, then, tell me how would you change the picture for L3 missions?
Pandares Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.01.15 07:07:00 - [12] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker I found from practice that four frigates (with 2 or 3 day old characters) can effectively do L2 missions. However, they are going to lose at least one ship a fair portion of the time. I wouldn't call that effective, tbqh. Or at least not efficient. Depending on your starting skill set, you should be able to fly cruisers within a few hours of character creation. A squad of them would make mince-meat out of any lvl 2 mission and not even think about losing ships. Skip the destroyers, imho. They make great salvage ships but are difficult to fit for combat and are comperatively weak, as far as upgrades go. A mix&match squad could be a fun way to go; a cruiser tank, and some frigs/destroyers as dps. But eventually you'll want a commandship for your role. Before then, benefits will be very limited from specializing for the role (and focussing on them will just slow you down in the early game).
Ess Erbe Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.01.15 17:02:00 - [13] You say you favor Gallente. Passive shieldtanked Myrmidon for droneage + taking aggro in missions. Train up leadership skills to boost your fleet, if you want to.
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Spaceways	Posted - 2008.01.15 17:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Ess Erbe You say you favor Gallente. Passive shieldtanked Myrmidon for droneage + taking aggro in missions. Train up leadership skills to boost your fleet, if you want to. Isn't that a battlecruiser? TBH I don't favor Gallente, I favor Amarr. But Caldari ships are so ugly and Minmatar are too... I don't know. This is good feedback though!
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2008.01.15 17:29:00 - [15] You trained the basic leadership skills? Always a good start.
Merii Kha'sen Amarr Metal Machine	Posted - 2008.01.15 17:32:00 - [16] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Hey I started a new toon to be a corp leader and fleet commander. At this point less than a week old, and can only fly frigates, but has acquired a following of fellow newbies and have run L1 and L2 missions with them (depending on how many frigates in the gang). While they train up to better damage dealers, I want to train a ship that can support and lead the fleet to greater victories. What sort of ship and modules would make a good "mini-command ship" before I reach the battlecruiser stage? I favor Amarr and Gallente stuff, but feel free to share your best setup of any race. Should it be a destroyer or cruiser, and how would you fit it? PVE and PVP setups would be different, I imagine, so go to town on that idea. It's called a battlecruiser. They can fit 1 command module. Have fun with that!
Pan Zhu'Liang	Posted - 2008.01.15 17:41:00 - [17] if you really want to herd frigs through missions and don't want to use a battlecruiser then logistics is the way to go.
Wolfic Minmatar SGN Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.15 17:51:00 - [18] The best thing you could probably do is setup a pure tank frigate to manage aggro. Warp in first get them on you and let yer gang mates deliver the beatdown. If you favor amarr I'd suggest a punisher with AB nos 2xsmall repper, cap relays and cap rechargers. Keep the AB running and orbit close in to the enemies and use the nos to run the tank. Train for the maller as soon as you can though, it has a monster tank.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.15 18:20:00 - [19] U know about forming a fleet and setting urselves as squadcommander? If u have a few leadership skills this is very nice, just buy all the basic leadership skills if u don't have them (siege warfare, skirmish warfare, information warfare and armored warfare) with every level of leadership skill u can add 2 members to ur squad so thats 10 members at L5, they all will gain bonus from ur skills if u set urselves as squadcommander. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.01.15 18:46:00 - [20] playing a ship that is set up solely to tank is indeed a good strategy to help in missions. On the other hand, you should also teach your fellow players about combat. Train them to take note of what is firing on them, to make educated guesses as to whether they can kill these things before their tank breaks, to notice when this breaking of their tank is happening, and to warp out of the mission room to save their ship. Also, I really recommend training for battlecruisers. Especially the Prophecy class Amarr battlecruiser makes for a very fine tank ship and lets you field a gang module. The training path is very short, too - if you're getting into Destroyers, you already have Amarr Frigate 3 and Spaceship COmmand 3. Invest two and a half days, and you have both of them at 4, which you need. Then you only need Amarr Cruiser 3, which should take less than a day and a half. That makes four days of training focus to get into battlecruisers. Medium armor repairers should already be well within your capability, considering they only need Mechanic 2 and Repair Systems 1. The problem with battlecruisers is therefore not the skill training time, but rather the cost of buying the ship - a Prophecy with a basic tank fit will set you back around 25 million ISK, not sure about the warfare link. Consider setting up a fund with your corpmates to help afford the ship if necessary. Until you get there, however, you'll do best in a cruiser. Destroyers have the problem that while they have the firepower of two frigates, they only have the health of one, but they present a target as large as a cruiser. They will die quickly under fire. Look especially for cruisers which have resistance or repair amount bonuses, for example the Maller. These bonuses will help you tank a lot better.
jam6549 Our Leitmotif	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:02:00 - [21] Originally by: Rawr Cristina a Drake because it has a similar (or better) tank to one. lolsilly caldari!
Ogron Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:50:00 - [22] Amarr Pilot: Train for a Prophecy with Battlecruisers lvl4. Train armour tanking skills to use tech 2 medium armour reppers, damage control, and hardeners. Also train the armour compensation skills. Train cap skills to enable you to maintain a constant tank against rats in the missions. Train Drone skills to allow you to use remote repping drones on your team mates. Also perhaps train for remote armour reppers on your ship. Also train leadership and gang bonus skills to not only give your gang advantages but also to run a Warfare mod on your Prophecy. This is probably the closest you will get to a 'mini command ship' prior to spending the 1 yr training to use one well. You warp in, take aggro, tank it. Support your gang using bonuses and drones and let them pewpew away to their hearts content. --- [Reacz] Morsus Mihi - Sit on their thrones sucking the sweet teet of plex running so I've heard.
Joseph 9 Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:12:00 - [23] Taking Ogrons suggestion a step further and into a Drake you could fit (total theory craft ahead be warned) Highs Siege Warfare link - Shield Harmonization Siege Warfare link - Shield Efficiency Siege Warfare link - Active Sheilding 4 free to decide based on skills etc Meds 2 x command processor 2 x invuln field I or mission spec hardeners 2 x large sheild extender I Lows 2 x Co-procs 2 x Reactor control units Swap out the warfare link modules for whatever helps your gang most. As skills improve switch kit over to t2 where apropriate. The big weakness in this setup us the lack of damage, even with all relevant skills at lvl 5 you aren't going to fit 5 heavy missile launchers on there without rigs/implants. I also think by the time you could run this boat efficiently you'd be good for Com ships anyway.
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Spaceways	Posted - 2008.01.15 23:23:00 - [24] Originally by: Ishina Fel Also, I really recommend training for battlecruisers. ... The training path is very short, too ... The problem with battlecruisers is therefore not the skill training time, but rather the cost of buying the ship - a Prophecy with a basic tank fit will set you back around 25 million ISK. I respectfully disagree Ishina. After you've been playing for a couple months, you'll realize how little 25 million ISK really amounts to. I have learned with my other toon that flying a ship well doesn't mean just training the bare minimum skills under Spaceship Command. You need skills for the weapons, tank, energy mangement, electronics, and so on. That's why I've dedicated Joe Starbreaker to being the best small-ship pilot he can be. Thank you for your advice everybody. My plan right now is to train for assault frigates. The way I see it, getting Engineering V, Mechanic V, and Frigate V right away can't possibly be a waste. Then T2 tank, then T2 guns, then the other five races' Frigate V, then maybe some other T2 frigate classes.
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Spaceways	Posted - 2008.01.15 23:27:00 - [25] By the way, all of you are replying with battlecruiser setups. I am not reading these. I really hope that doesn't hurt your feelings, but I quite clearly stated that I'm looking for a solution in the pre-BC stage.
Panch0Villa Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.15 23:57:00 - [26] Edited by: Panch0Villa on 15/01/2008 23:58:48 Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 15/01/2008 03:14:49 I see a couple of possible strategies: 1) Just be a super duper tanker, warp in first, and allow the fighters to take their sweet time killing stuff. This super duper tanker is going to be a BC. Let's skip this then. Quote: 2) Some kind of logistics/shield repping role. You could just use an Osprey for shield repping or an Exequror for armor repping. They both have a 500% bonus to range which is around 30km. Ever heard of a spider tank? It's where everyone brings one remote repper, and everyone reps the person who is being attacked. This only works with bigger ships though, as a single volley of damage may be enough to destroy a small ship in one blow, and your reppers couldn't do anything about that. Energy transfer arrays work the same way for capacitor recharge. Quote: 3) Maybe combine (1) or (2) with salvaging. The exequror only has 4 high slots, but it also has a bonus to cargo capacity, and can reach in excess of 2000 m3 of cargo space. It might do well as a looter/salvager, or perhaps as a dedicated looter in combination with another destroyer pilot handling salvaging and towing wrecks to you. OTOH, you could use a single hauler to loot several missions in a row. Up to you. Quote: Probably in PVP I wouldn't bother with any fancy ship setups. If I get into PVP it will likely be by tagging along somebody's big fleet, and my entire corp would probably just play tackler/antitackler. So assuming the above is for PVE, what would you suggest? Destroyer, cruiser, or even industrial? I want a low-cost T1 solution here, as I said in the OP. No battlecruiser or T2 ship. PvP will be a lot different, and yes, 75% of the battle is just getting the enemy pinned down. Probably the main thing in later missions is managing aggro. If everyone sets off trigger, many different pilots will get aggro'd and it becomes impossible to focus on one person tanking. If aggro is managed carefully, you can get one single person spider tanked and able to hold up an impossibly strong tank, because the npc's are only firing/aggroing this one person.
Law Enforcer	Posted - 2008.01.16 00:21:00 - [27] allowing a noob in anything that resembles a command ship completely defeats the purpose of a command ship.
Sirius Problem Darkness Inc. Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.01.16 00:35:00 - [28] Noob command ship is the same as jumbo shrimp. It's an oxymoron Ok, you want to stay under BC class. Well, that's were gang mods start. I guess the only other thing you can do, as mentioned by others, is take advantage of the various race's cruisers that offer "support" bonuses. The Osprey and shield transfer, for ex. Or you could "try" spider tanking your gang. Everyone fit a remote repper of some sort and support the ship(s) taking damage. The problem will be short range, meaning tight formations. ---- I am Super Cool
Concordokken Plox	Posted - 2008.01.16 00:40:00 - [29] Please quit the game Joe Starbreaker, you do not belong in it.
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.16 04:07:00 - [30] Couldn't it be a rule for Assault-Frigs? Able to fit one Command modul while not that expensive like BC. For exchange it does far less damage and can't tank aswell as a BC but good enough for level 1-2 missions, small mining OP's in highsec (yes, new player/corps do it in highsec) or even small Frig-PvP-gangs (very funny!). Sure, it will take more time to train but price is a problem for mostly new players without 10b ISK in the background. most of you Vets / semi-Vets seam to forget how hard it was to get ISK with just frigs, no highskill miners and bad suport (rep/weapon) skills. The module might be limited to 5 Squad members equal if your skills would allow more.

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