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The Ultimate Project - Turning 5k into 1b in 1 month using market only

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Sphynx Stormlord Gallente Anqara Tech	Posted - 2008.01.17 22:46:00 - [121] Quote: The Goal To turn 5,000 isk into 1,000,000,000 isk over a 1 month period I presume that this means that the goal is to have a wallet balance of 1 bil or over, rather than a NAV?
Katherine Sharpe	Posted - 2008.01.18 00:04:00 - [122] What's a NAV?
Bouncer Ricdic	Posted - 2008.01.18 01:01:00 - [123] Originally by: Block Ukx This needs some clarification as it seems to me you are reporting Projected NAV instead of intrinsic NAV. I value on hand assets at market price (price I could get if i sold them now) I value buy orders at just the capital in use (as I don't own them yet) I value sell orders at market price Prices in the market are always changing so it's impossible to have this 100% accurate but I value it based on the best sell order. Plus I round to the nearest whole number to save my sanity Quote: Are asset valued based on acquisition price, mineral price, average sales price, or projected sales price? Based on what I said above, I would say projected sale price. I could base them off average sale price but I don't have a large enough test bed of sales yet to get a good idea on average pricing (would be a whole lot easier though) Quote: Also, I consider skill boks as expendable and are not part of the NAV. Understood, I won't list it as part of NAV any more.
Bouncer Ricdic	Posted - 2008.01.18 01:08:00 - [124] Originally by: Chribba SCAM! I want my ISK back!! oh wait I haven't even paid anything... Keep up the good work will be interesting to see how you do in the end Posting in a Chribba thread!! Oh wait! Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord I presume that this means that the goal is to have a wallet balance of 1 bil or over, rather than a NAV? No the goal is to have a NAV of 1 billion isk. Basically to turn a 5k noob into someone valued at 1 billion isk. If it were cash it would be a nightmare trying to complete all orders before the operation finished. Originally by: Katherine Sharpe What's a NAV? Info on NAV It's pretty straightforward. It's the simple value of everything I own minus everything I owe. (rent, debt etc) The only real part that can be confused is the way I determine NAV. I basically calculate it as what I should be able to get if I sold everything on the market Thanks for the posts guys
Grayclay Caldari Imperium Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.18 03:42:00 - [125] Have you considered writing a guide on playing the market? I would sure as hell be interested, having only gotten into the whole market business a little while ago myself.
La Hafiz Rubra Libertas Militia Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.18 03:46:00 - [126] I am in complete agreement with Clay. I've never even gotten my feet wet with playing the market, and it all seems so fascinating. It's like a whole new part of Eve I never knew existed. Definitely bookmarked this page, and a guide would be like gold falling from the sky :D
Bouncer Ricdic	Posted - 2008.01.18 04:19:00 - [127] Well I would rather see if I can do it before writing a guide Anyway once it's all over I will organise a live copy of the whole operation so people can see exactly how I done it. It won't show you a few good items, but ways you can make money off almost every single item on the market.
Vested Interest	Posted - 2008.01.18 05:02:00 - [128] Edited by: Vested Interest on 18/01/2008 05:03:20 Before I had Wholesale 4 and Margin Trading 4, essentially playing as a budding trader juggling under 200m, 50-odd orders, and no margin cash reserve to worry about, I made it my mission to have nearly all my cash, and all my orders occupied, when I logged for the night. Waking up to the next 100mil in your wallet is most gratifying. This applies on about any scale, empty orders and cash laying around is like employees lounging around on the clock. It gets quite interesting when you are running with over 100 orders, 200 mil in the bank and almost a billion cash needed on margin. Having a diverse portfolio of fast, medium, and slow moving items is key.
Chu Ran Caldari Challenger Logistics Corporation Momentum Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.18 06:40:00 - [129] Nice... hell, I'd pay 100 mil for that detailed report in the end... eh, on second thought, forget I suggested that. ahem... keep up the good work, I look forward to your summary at the end, especially since my industry/trader alt has finally gotten most of his basic skills down and I'm getting ready to invest about 1.5 bil into the market game, .
Ciuby Gallente Romania Production Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.18 06:53:00 - [130] for the guys that think market play is "cute", wait until you have to update your orders once at every 5 minutes because you are underbid... don't think it's all milk and sugar ;) __________ Freighter for hire!
Vested Interest	Posted - 2008.01.18 08:32:00 - [131] Edited by: Vested Interest on 18/01/2008 08:32:46 Oh how soon that "I'm going to log on and update my positions" becomes I'm going to log on and update my positions and catch up on shipping contracts and go pick that stuff up and probably go over there and update those positions too oh and I'll log that alt and update his positions and do some contracts and transfer some stuff and fly back to Jita and update those positions one more time oh sh*t it's downtime already?
Mtber Caldari Mtber Corp	Posted - 2008.01.18 08:39:00 - [132] Originally by: Ciuby for the guys that think market play is "cute", wait until you have to update your orders once at every 5 minutes because you are underbid... don't think it's all milk and sugar ;) I shudder to think how many new competitors this thread is creating
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.01.18 08:45:00 - [133] Originally by: Ciuby for the guys that think market play is "cute", wait until you have to update your orders once at every 5 minutes because you are underbid... don't think it's all milk and sugar ;) Hey. I think its cute that you totally overreact on these things. But the truth is that just because your underbid, it doesnt mean that you dont sell/buy stuff. I update maybe my orders 4 times a day, my orders rarely DOESNT get filled.
Bouncer Ricdic	Posted - 2008.01.18 08:53:00 - [134] Well yeh it all depends on what you deal with. I usually stay away from the highly traded items simply because I can't be bothered updating my orders every 5 minutes. At this point I check my orders every few hours and out of maybe 40 orders about 5 may need updating. It's also interesting to see the amount of market manipulation being done in Jita on a daily basis. When people say market manipulation they automatically assume minerals but there is so much more than that. I have watched about 9 different items over the last 3 days with blatant market manipulation. Only 2 thus far have held their manipulated values with new sellers holding onto those same prices (or manipulators buying them out). But I have rode both waves a little, and made sure to jump out before the prices have dropped. Thus far not a single item I have purchased has been sold at a loss. I generally don't bother trading the item if the following conditions aren't met: 1) If in same station I look for at least a 5k profit margin 2) If in a 5 jump range I look at at least a 10k profit margin 3) If item in question is valued above 30k I don't trade it unless I can double it's value. At this point I am finally in a position where I can get buy orders down on some extremely fast turnover items, buying at 220k selling at about 560k. These are really helping me close the gap and get enough available capital to break the 10-15m barrier.
Trady Mc'Tradealt	Posted - 2008.01.18 14:34:00 - [135] Jeeze, no wonder my trades have been out of whack the last few days.
Bouncer Ricdic	Posted - 2008.01.18 15:00:00 - [136] Edited by: Bouncer Ricdic on 18/01/2008 15:01:56 End of Day 3 Report Orders Remaining: 6 out of 41 max open Orders<br>Total in Escrow: 4,673,539.99 ISK (additional -0.00 ISK to cover)<br>Base Broker Fee: 1.0% of order value<br>Transaction Tax: 1.0% of sales value NAV Buy Orders - 4,675,560 Cash - 447,325 Assets Jita - 336,000 Assets Other - 443,000 Sell Orders - 7,896,000 Total NAV - 13,797,885 First post has been updated I am starting to feel like I am getting enough capital to spread my wings so tomorrow should be a nicer day
Block Ukx KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2008.01.18 15:34:00 - [137] As of1/18/08 2:29 PM Gross Sales 12,050,576.34 Purchases (6,176,288.39) Transaction Taxes (120,505.82) Broker Fees (343,099.60) Expendables (108,000.00) Net Profits 5,302,682.53 Estimated Inventory 1,822,501.51 Intrinsic NAV 7,125,184.04 Projected Gross Sales 6,982,545.29 Cost of goods (2,693,753.52) Book Value 9,591,474.30 TRADE STATISTICS Total ISK Traded 18,469,864.73 Number of clients 344 NOTE: Ricdic is using projected NAV. There is nothing wrong with publishing projected NAV; its just two different accounting methods. BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.18 20:24:00 - [138] Quote: I do have 1 problem. The bet arose from a noob player stating that they gained 1 billion in a month, or something like that. A BRAND NEW player would not have the expertise to identify the purchase for 1000 ISK and reprocess etc. You are using all your skill and experience built up over time to beat this challenge, I just doubt a truly new player could do it. He's got the same skillsets newbies would have. As for experience, sure, that helps, but if your point is that an inexeperienced player is less advantaged than an experienced one, color me unsurprised. He's trying to show that a brand new out of the box character that takes the time to properly assess the market can make 1b. And really, all this noob would need to do is read the MD and posted guides for a couple days and get a pretty good handle on what to do. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what is worth buying and then reprocessing it, I discovered it completely by accident. As soon as you find one item like that you get a feel for how to find others, and all it takes is a willingness to use spreadhseets and trawl through the item database.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.18 20:29:00 - [139] Quote: i must add. buying underpriced items to reprocess is not really that market related. in the strict sense that market is buy/sell only. but i dont make the rules Howso? That's how I got started. Buy underpriced items, reprocess, sell them. I still see the buy-sell chain in there. It's just really nice for new guys that are just starting out in the market because, well hey, you're pretty well insured against a loss in value of your investments unless suddenly there is a widespread and catastrophic drop in mineral prices.
Lucas Avignon Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.19 05:36:00 - [140] Yeah going from 5k to over 1bn is quite easily doable, I know because by the end of my very first month in Eve I had well over 1bn and paid for my monthly subscription with isk from the very start. Of course when you first start you are very stimulated and during the trial period getting to 1bn was like my first goal. I'm sure you will have no problem and will get there in under 3 weeks or less depending on your experience.
ZOROO	Posted - 2008.01.19 06:34:00 - [141] ready to bit vs any one she can make 1 bill and remmeber ..... she can do itttttt i bit by 10 mill vs any upper number than 100 mill she can sure about it 100%
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.01.19 10:44:00 - [142] Thought I would give you guys a tidbit. Most of my stock in this item is sold and it's profit margins have dropped considerably. Someone manipulated the market in this item and allowed it to hold price (and still reach sales) over a good 1 week. This helped Bouncer Ricdic get from 5k to 700k in 1 day immensely, and there are hundreds of items on the market just like it. Question is, will you find them before I do?
Mtber Caldari Mtber Corp	Posted - 2008.01.19 10:56:00 - [143] Originally by: EBANK Ricdic Thought I would give you guys a tidbit. Most of my stock in this item is sold and it's profit margins have dropped considerably. Someone manipulated the market in this item and allowed it to hold price (and still reach sales) over a good 1 week. This helped Bouncer Ricdic get from 5k to 700k in 1 day immensely, and there are hundreds of items on the market just like it. Question is, will you find them before I do? in my region lowest sell price is 600k and highest(and only) buy order is 1551
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.01.19 11:36:00 - [144] Originally by: Mtber in my region lowest sell price is 600k and highest(and only) buy order is 1551 The terms of my contract deter my ability to take trade beyond Jita. Plus I only have 40 order slots so the idea is to make the most of the limited capacity I have. Probably a good thing to avoid RSI having to update 500 orders every 5 hours or so.
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Frontal Impact	Posted - 2008.01.19 13:02:00 - [145] Edited by: Taikun on 19/01/2008 13:03:14 Posting to confirm Ricdic is actually not using the market to achieve this epic task. I submit the following Local Jita chat entry: [ 2008.01.19 02:20:49 ] Bouncer Ricdic> First person to open a trade window with me and has 58 mill showing, gets my Caracal Navy Issue !!! Tsk tsk tsk... Taikun P.S. For any over eager mods out there just about to moderate my post... it was intended as a joke. You know, that thing that people do when they try to make forums a "warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community". P.S.S. Good luck Ricdic. I have been following this since your first post. Interesting every step of the way. A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.01.19 18:09:00 - [146] Originally by: Ciuby for the guys that think market play is "cute", wait until you have to update your orders once at every 5 minutes because you are underbid... don't think it's all milk and sugar ;) Ding Ding Ding. QFT!!! I know I could accomplish what Bouncer is trying with a trade toon, had the time, and my perscription of adderall filled for the month. Unfortunately I have none of those, so I will have to let BR do it for me. Get It Ricdic!!! All you need to do now is double up every 3.2 - 3.3 days if my numbers are right. Up Up You Go. ____________________________________________________________________________________________ Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider "As me wallet grows so do me balls"
La Hafiz Rubra Libertas Militia Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.19 18:15:00 - [147] Double up in 3-4 days? I haven't even made a 10% profit I just got my feet wet with an initial starting capital of 11 million. I'd appreciate any help with playing the market as I have little idea of what to do right.
Daeva Vios Ares Arms and Modules LLC	Posted - 2008.01.19 19:35:00 - [148] Originally by: Slade Trillgon Originally by: Ciuby for the guys that think market play is "cute", wait until you have to update your orders once at every 5 minutes because you are underbid... don't think it's all milk and sugar ;) Ding Ding Ding. QFT!!! I know I could accomplish what Bouncer is trying with a trade toon, had the time, and my perscription of adderall filled for the month. Unfortunately I have none of those, so I will have to let BR do it for me. Get It Ricdic!!! All you need to do now is double up every 3.2 - 3.3 days if my numbers are right. Up Up You Go. Others do not lack the knowledge that you lack. Sufficiently motivated new players do have all of the tools Ricdic has, and more. He has intentionally handicapped himself. As a new player looking to get into this, I would personally do research on it and give myself every advantage I could. You seem unwilling to believe that this could be done without updating 23/7, but I doubt you've tried very hard to figure out a way.
La Hafiz Rubra Libertas Militia Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.19 23:43:00 - [149] So any updates on the NAV for Day 4 and 5?
Tobin Shalim Vulcan Foundry	Posted - 2008.01.20 00:16:00 - [150] I must say that until I see detailed (when released) reports, I find this to be absolutely impossible. I have been attempting the same thing that Ricdic has been in Jita (hope I haven't been hitting your items ), only to find that after 3 days I STILL have not broken 1mil. Heck, haven't broken 500k. I fail to believe that this is actually happening and (while I'm not calling him a fraud) there is no way he can be making these kinds of profits without outside interference/help or extensive knowledge of the market before he engaged in this act; a noob character fresh out of the box has no way of being able to do what Ricdic is doing. I eagerly await the end of the month data in this case.

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