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Capital ships are not eve.

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Tsu'ko Valley Forge STELLAR LEGION	Posted - 2008.01.19 11:16:00 - [31] Edited by: Tsu''ko on 19/01/2008 11:19:11 Edited by: Tsu''ko on 19/01/2008 11:17:58 Thought capitals already had a weakness, EW, their dps isn't that great. Can tank a carrier with a bs without faction mods even. And about nanoships, think i'll need to train T2 ships to counter them somehow... well about time i start with that training anyway :)
ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.19 11:25:00 - [32] Ive seen a megathron tank a carrier and take its shield out and into its armour before it had to warp off. Capitals can be countered. Deal with it. www.eve-players.com
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.19 11:31:00 - [33] battleships aren't eve, you cant blow them up with a bantam!!!!!! oh and see techzer0's thread in c&p onyx-1 carrier-0
Aeron Wymond Gallente Baptism oF Fire VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.19 13:00:00 - [34] so if i understand your complaint its that you can't beat a capital ship 1 on 1 with a smaller class of ship ... call me naive but isn't that the same for all classes of ship? i mean if i went up against a crusier in a frigate i wouldn't be complaining that i got out my ass kicked in fact i would probably be in rights to be yelled at for being an idiot. so what do you do if you have a bigger nasty ship? gang up and take him down togeather it's how eve has always worked and thats whats good about it that any ship can contribute to damaging any other ship hell even a titan. I mean you don't get that anywhere else can you see this happening in WOW? 10 level 3 charecters taking on a level 50? they wouldn't even hit him where 10 frigates are able to take out a battleship. so capital ships don't need a nerf your IQ needs a buff
Khudo	Posted - 2008.01.19 13:34:00 - [35] in real life, very small units are able to kill very larger units (understand, stop the target) thats the problem in eve: stealth bombers are unable to shut down a cap ship in a couple of hits. In general, eve lack of specialized kill machines.
Amuko Amarr Disturbed Amarrians	Posted - 2008.01.19 14:07:00 - [36] I think everyone is missing the OP's point.
DroneBay Diva Universal Industries Inc	Posted - 2008.01.19 14:37:00 - [37] Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad I bet you'd get better flames in General Discussion. Ships and Modules is too mellow lately for an entertaining thread. =\ I dunno, JoJo wasn't doing too bad _____________________________________________________________________________ Proud to be a Nanofag
lyrenna Caldari Soliders Of Eve The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.19 15:12:00 - [38] das capital
Kia Rash Minmatar The Phalanx Expeditionary Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.19 15:23:00 - [39] Originally by: PriceCheckMax There is no way to win a 10 capitals vs 10 other ships fight. Isn't that fundamentally unbalanced and needs major adjustments? ... that could 1v1 any capital at any moment, and always win. ... see the flaw? anything is kill-able, seeing as atleast 10 die each week i would say its pretty balanced the problem isnt really that there are "i-win" button ships, but that people dont see the "consider yourself countered" button ships.
PriceCheckMax	Posted - 2008.01.19 15:56:00 - [40] Capital ships can be killed by blobbing - that is nothing new, everything can be killed this way. Nanoships can be killed by blobbing as well, but there are no counters, that wouldn't involve 1) blobbing or 2) bringing capital ships. There are variety of counters that exist against nanoships, but in-game modules/ships against capitals have not been designed yet. (PS. the bold parts are made bold for a reason)

PriceCheckMax	Posted - 2008.01.19 16:07:00 - [41] Originally by: Arthur Frayn It's obvious the OP has never flown a capital and I highly doubt he's ever even been in a battle with capitals were involved. If they were allowed in highsec, I might agree with his point. Otherwise it's just one big "omg big scary ship that can pwn me in my useless little battleship with only 10 mill skillpoints!" whine. Completely misinformed and incorrect opinion. Otherwise battleships could be seen as I-win buttons with their enormous weapons, fitting options and strength in numbers. Like the OP said, he thinks it's unfair that you can't beat 10 capitals with 10 non-capital ships. So it must also be unfair if you can't beat 10 battleships with 10 t1 cruisers. Or 10 frigates for that matter! The OP needs to grow a brain and play the game for a while until he spends the months it takes to train up the skills, and works himself to death to build up the resources to get his very own capital, so he can see for himself why they're fine the way they are as a reward for the investment. Or he needs to inject more humour into his trolling. High mineral costs, high skills reqs - anything really. But capitals need direct counters that do not involve 1) blobbing or 2) bringing capitals. Nanoships can be killed by nanoships, or by blobbing. They can also be countered(to a certain extent) by Huginns, Neuts, Faction webs + overheating. Capitals perform similar, as they can be killed by capital ships or be blobbed, but capital-specific counters do not exist.
Kia Rash Minmatar The Phalanx Expeditionary Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.19 16:09:00 - [42] uhm, ive yet to see an capital killer gang without neuts, also, your oppinion is flawed in my eyes, blobbing isnt the answer just by itself, blobbing isnt only caused by the need for more damage, but also the need to counter speccific setups, you could have the whole goonfleet after you, but if youre nanod and they dont have 1 web, that blob wouldnt counter anything. capitals are countered the same way as any other ship, figure out its setup, and specialize against it, seeing as it cant do many fits(ever see a nano or passive shield capital?) its even easier than most things also remember that most capital pilot are experienced, with high skills and knowledge of fitting and pvp. its not just a ship that makes or breaks a fight.
Juha85 Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2008.01.19 16:15:00 - [43] I vote for creating an anti-bs frigate which could engage against any BS and allways win! --------------------------------------- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
PriceCheckMax	Posted - 2008.01.19 16:19:00 - [44] Edited by: PriceCheckMax on 19/01/2008 16:21:57 Edited by: PriceCheckMax on 19/01/2008 16:19:38 Originally by: Kia Rash uhm, ive yet to see an capital killer gang without neuts, also, your oppinion is flawed in my eyes, blobbing isnt the answer just by itself, blobbing isnt only caused by the need for more damage, but also the need to counter speccific setups, you could have the whole goonfleet after you, but if youre nanod and they dont have 1 web, that blob wouldnt counter anything. capitals are countered the same way as any other ship, figure out its setup, and specialize against it, seeing as it cant do many fits(ever see a nano or passive shield capital?) its even easier than most things also remember that most capital pilot are experienced, with high skills and knowledge of fitting and pvp. its not just a ship that makes or breaks a fight. Oh, well, I can't whine rabble/forever... I am just an random alt who is whining about "nanoship whines." I just see some similarities between the big 0.0 alliances whining about nanoships and the way capital ships are at the moment in 0.0 warfare. Capital blobbing is a big problem at the moment in my opinion. Serious suggestion: add a 10-15min pvp delay when capital jumping.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.01.19 16:25:00 - [45] Originally by: ViolenTUK Ive seen a megathron tank a carrier and take its shield out and into its armour before it had to warp off. Capitals can be countered. Deal with it. I've seen a fencer tank a jedi and take his health down before he had to force run 3 out Jedi can be countered. Deal with it
Kiiikoooloool	Posted - 2008.01.19 16:28:00 - [46] Originally by: Khudo in real life, very small units are able to kill very larger units (understand, stop the target) thats the problem in eve: stealth bombers are unable to shut down a cap ship in a couple of hits. In general, eve lack of specialized kill machines. agreed with that!!!
Kia Rash Minmatar The Phalanx Expeditionary Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.19 16:29:00 - [47] well, sadly, capital blobbing is just the new blob, you always want the most powerfull, resilient or role specific ship you can muster to be part of a blob. in it self that isnt such a bad thing, its just that a carrier(wich im guessing what most of these post are about) is just too effective in all 3, at the same time. i was one of the people actually for nerfing the carrier a bit, even though i want one eventually.
Sola Sun Jita Trade Services	Posted - 2008.01.19 16:31:00 - [48] Edited by: Sola Sun on 19/01/2008 16:32:09 1) Make cloaking devices not engaging on a capital ship 2) Make any self-initiated aggro preventing capital docking / jumping for 15 min 3) Make them unable to use POS shields and voila - those cap blobbing noobs will never undock them
Kia Rash Minmatar The Phalanx Expeditionary Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.19 16:32:00 - [49] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: ViolenTUK Ive seen a megathron tank a carrier and take its shield out and into its armour before it had to warp off. Capitals can be countered. Deal with it. I've seen a fencer tank a jedi and take his health down before he had to force run 3 out Jedi can be countered. Deal with it Hahaha, you my good sir, have just won this thread /bow /worship
Serkis Caldari The Funkalistic SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.19 17:03:00 - [50] Originally by: PriceCheckMax Edited by: PriceCheckMax on 19/01/2008 16:08:49 Originally by: Arthur Frayn It's obvious the OP has never flown a capital and I highly doubt he's ever even been in a battle with capitals were involved. If they were allowed in highsec, I might agree with his point. Otherwise it's just one big "omg big scary ship that can pwn me in my useless little battleship with only 10 mill skillpoints!" whine. Completely misinformed and incorrect opinion. Otherwise battleships could be seen as I-win buttons with their enormous weapons, fitting options and strength in numbers. Like the OP said, he thinks it's unfair that you can't beat 10 capitals with 10 non-capital ships. So it must also be unfair if you can't beat 10 battleships with 10 t1 cruisers. Or 10 frigates for that matter! The OP needs to grow a brain and play the game for a while until he spends the months it takes to train up the skills, and works himself to death to build up the resources to get his very own capital, so he can see for himself why they're fine the way they are as a reward for the investment. Or he needs to inject more humour into his trolling. High mineral costs, high skills reqs - anything really. But capitals need direct counters that do not involve 1) blobbing or 2) bringing capitals. Nanoships can be killed by nanoships, or by blobbing. They can also be countered by Huginns, Neuts, Faction webs + overheating. They are by no means ultimate tools for the job, but they do have a drastic effect. Capitals perform similar, as they can be killed by capital ships or be blobbed, but capital-specific counters do not exist. So are you suggesting something like a anti-capital module similar to webifier is used to slow down nano ships? How about "the shrinker"? A module that would shrink the target to same size as your ship. Of course it would have enough fitting req so only BS¦s would be able to use.

Kiiikoooloool	Posted - 2008.01.19 17:09:00 - [51] one torpedo is enough to wreck a carrier in real world.
Andreask14 Alterum - Infinitus - Fabula Dragons Of Oceans	Posted - 2008.01.19 17:28:00 - [52] Fifteen years ago, a game was released called wing commander "armada", in which two players would fihgt for sector dominance by ordering around a carrier ship that could produce smaller fighters. Two of these fighters on each side of the conflict would be able to launch slow and heavy torpedoes that were the only weapons able to destroy the enemy carrier, thereby winning the game. The trick was to get your attack ship close enough for the shot while the enemmy tried to shoot it down with fighters. In EVE, you could include an adv stealth bomber that would be able to fire capital class torpedoes, fulfilling the role of an anti-capital strike ship.
Kiiikoooloool	Posted - 2008.01.19 17:36:00 - [53] Another idea all weapons allow you to shoot while moving because they are mounted on the hull. do you know how the a-10 was designed? Us engineers made a great gun... But had no idea to how to use it. Some one said, great, lets buid a plane around the gun ! It's the birth of the a10. What about capital weapons allowed on frigates (or bigger ships if you prefer)? don't laugh ^ ^. The frigate is built around the gun, so you must be aligned with your target in order to shoot in the right direction. In the other hand, larger ships will need flak.
Andreask14 Alterum - Infinitus - Fabula Dragons Of Oceans	Posted - 2008.01.19 17:38:00 - [54] They really need to bring back snowball launchers.
chrisss0r	Posted - 2008.01.19 19:38:00 - [55] http://www.eve-kill.com/stfin/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=1182 ehehe
Kiiikoooloool	Posted - 2008.01.19 20:10:00 - [56] Originally by: Andreask14 They really need to bring back snowball launchers. why ?
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.01.19 20:28:00 - [57] Originally by: chrisss0r http://www.eve-kill.com/stfin/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=1182 ehehe I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.
Amy Wang	Posted - 2008.01.19 21:23:00 - [58] I wouldnt be so sure if 10 non-capital ships with a budget of 12 Bil (to match the 10 carrier¦s price tag) cant take out 10 carriers tbh.
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.01.19 21:45:00 - [59] Originally by: Amy Wang I wouldnt be so sure if 10 non-capital ships with a budget of 12 Bil (to match the 10 carrier¦s price tag) cant take out 10 carriers tbh. It'd be a stalemate if they brought anything that could outrun the fighters, or the carriers would slowly wear down the opposition with a fighter swarm while remote repping each other. 10 carriers can be a lot of DPS to tank for a battleship, even fully pimped out.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.19 22:22:00 - [60] Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 19/01/2008 22:22:35 I can understand this op's point, but to be honest, I think the opposite. Cap ships are very much "Eve" to me. They bring flavor and tactical aid in an otherwise BS-Primary fest. If you remove cap ships, you might as well remove POSes. I mean, there is only two ways to kill a pos. Blob it or blockaid it until it runs out of fuel, which would also requires a blob. With caps and POSes being gone, player owned stations and 0.0 would need to be removed. Alliances and Corporations need to be deleted from the game as well. It only gives a convienant way to "blob", by making standings easy to identify. Battleships are next. Sure they can be defeated by lone non BS ships, but so can carriers and dreads in specific examples. Battlecruisers follow, then cruisers, destroyers; finally leaving only frigates, empire, and noob corps in a perfectly balanced and blobless Eve. Really, some people seem to not understand Eve or the concept of a "blob".



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