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I find the current empire war mechanics lacking

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marie blueprint	Posted - 2008.01.20 06:53:00 - [31] Originally by: Vikarion Who in particular are you talking to? I freely admit to being a carebear, myself. the op and his inaine supporters sorry i wasnt clear b4
Vikarion Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.20 06:56:00 - [32] Bleh, no problem. Just wondering if I managed to tick off someone else too. I use CrumpleCorn(tm) Sigs, because they (and he) are awesome!
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.01.20 07:27:00 - [33] Originally by: marie blueprint it gets more silly with each post you makethe current war deck is fine if the ppl you have war dec dont want to play with you dont demand a rule change .ffs u sound like a carebaer.just find ppl who want to play with you.unless your idea of a war is a pvp corp vs a mining corp...is it? shooting barges and haulers to fill your killboard? Where did I say any of this?
Vikarion Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.20 07:46:00 - [34] Probably referring to the other guy, Arj-something. I can't believe I replied to that guy all those times and can't even remember the name... gimme a minute... Ajenia. Yeah, he was probably responding to Ajenia mostly. -------- I use CrumpleCorn(tm) Sigs, because they (and he) are awesome!
Gallant Nose MAFIA	Posted - 2008.01.20 10:08:00 - [35] ajenia's hawwwt thought id do some sh*t poasting itt
TOZI	Posted - 2008.01.20 14:50:00 - [36] the OP needs to just go war dec a 0.0 corp and he can have all the fun he wants. Sounds more like he just wants free ganking at someones elses expence
Ovek Gallente Cosmic Fusion When Fat Kids Attack	Posted - 2008.01.20 15:05:00 - [37] Originally by: Kiiikoooloool the whole Eve is broken imo... wardecs, unability to kill macros, bounties broken, WRZ and so on ... It require balls to fix all that crap Welcome to 2 years ago...today.
Ovek Gallente Cosmic Fusion When Fat Kids Attack	Posted - 2008.01.20 15:06:00 - [38] Originally by: TOZI the OP needs to just go war dec a 0.0 corp and he can have all the fun he wants. Sounds more like he just wants free ganking at someones elses expence I think youwill find a lot of pvp corps will not undock. 0.0 is full of cap spam and whilst to an extent it's fun it's a different kind of pvp. Oh and quality of player does NOT increase when you go empire -> 0.0. They suck just as much.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.01.20 18:39:00 - [39] Originally by: TOZI the OP needs to just go war dec a 0.0 corp and he can have all the fun he wants. Sounds more like he just wants free ganking at someones elses expence The op is in 0.0 go figure but since your the expert I am not an empire war fighter I just asked a few questions
victim 1034378	Posted - 2008.01.20 21:22:00 - [40] Edited by: victim 1034378 on 20/01/2008 21:23:18 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin How do you fight a corp that never needs to undock? How do you stop a corp from selling their wares through the use of npc corp alts? How do you deal with npc corp shuttle scouts? Why is there no penalty to dispand/rejoin How are people allowed to gain funds through the use of a government aligned alt (npc corp mission running alt to fund X corp) Is there really any incentive to surrender? What say you c&p? I've always hated empire wars. You get 1 or 2 good fights then the losing corp plays the rest of the war with thier tail between thier legs, docked and 'afk' as is my current situation. I'm not the one afk and docked just to clarify. Apparently griefer corps dont like being wardecced or we are fighting a sad case. alt posted to protect the guilty
Taraniis MAFIA	Posted - 2008.01.20 23:03:00 - [41] Shoot their POS's it worked a week ago and jesus christ did it work tonight... A little too well if you ask me. Although if we spent more time playing and less time babbling on here we might have made something good of it. Anyhoo All corps need to undock at some point, sooner or later the minerals will run out and they will need new ones or face logging on to waste their time. Most corps that aren't of the pvp variety however, simply split up and do their thing away from the main core of the warzone. Thus you never see them and the ones you do see are probably "afk alts" to keep you there camping someone who was enver going to leave in the first place. You can't stop it unfortunately. To compare it to real life sanctions and such (if you must) it would be like armament deals (I doubt that your average pvp corp will be buying fruit and veg so humour the comparison) and done via a 3rd party middle man so that neither faction ever meets face to face. NPC shuttle scouts? Just warp around the system randomly and then fly out of a jumpgate they would never expect in a million years. Then use the damn map to find another way round, or sit at your jump gate until little scout warps off before you uncloak. The penalty of rejoining would be the fact they become a valid target again no? Simple, alt char "xyz" runs missions for an NPC corp whilst in an NPC corp and then right clicks on their main characters portrait and selects "Give Money" you should really try it sometime. Yes there is, because if you are clever and do your research rather than just looking in "Carebear monthly" and dec'ing the first corp you come to. You will know their movements and operations well in advance and could cause considerable damage in the first few days. In fact if you do it right then you will do so much damage they give up straight away.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.01.21 00:42:00 - [42] ok here is a hypothetical situation lets say there is a corp of traders I wardec them their haulers pilots drop corp and are now in Perkone. Their pilots are now able to transfer the goods to the characters with the marketing skills are still raking it in (not that I have a problem with this it is just a theoretical situation). But now the options left are either start suiciding or just drop it and move on. I'm not sure if you know but the sec status grind is a real ***** What I am aiming for is an ability to cut off supply lines which is currently infeasible with current game mechanics What if its an npc shuttle scout into nuken(a one entry system just listed for arguement reasons)? Suicide them? the loss of sec status is a hefty one and now they know you are out and about. What I mean by disband rejoin is corp a drops and becomes corp b then drops and becomes corp c etc. The question is worded badly. What I am saying is X has mission running alt Y funding corp Z. If I am at war with corp Z but Y is funding them I can not touch Y without the sec hit and the strike force needed to take them out. Multiply that by the number of people that play with the EvE-O character Trinity (The PvP, The Mission Runner, The Hauler) and the problem becomes visible. But can any one do enough damage to get more than extortion money what If a corp has something that is worth more than 10bill. I'm not in the empire war or the extortion business but I do have a pretty good idea that getting multi billion isk assets from any corp going from 1 to 4000 people will result in an lol f-u.
Requiescat True Foundation Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.21 05:51:00 - [43] Originally by: Vikarion stuff Has anyone noticed that this guy started this character in October of '07, and has been in one player corp total in his entire impressive employment history. Remind me again why anyone is listening to him? Look, empire wardecs need to be fixed. Non-starter NPC corps need to be fixed (just ask anyone who has fought Rens 911 or been the victim of a Russian blob (there are no victories against the Russian blob, only victims)). Docking and AFKing need to be fixed. There needs to be more incentive to fight empire wars instead of just sitting in a station. Victory - Honor = Loss
hellsknights RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.21 05:54:00 - [44] Originally by: Kiiikoooloool lol, sorry WTZ warp to zero This mechanic were introduced to counter a server side issue... it is not a gameplay intended feature and that killed lot of fun. Wow, WTZ was a good thing EvE travel was to long anyhow, honestly to good pirates "the ones who can adapt" WTZ changed SH*T ALL!!!
Requiescat True Foundation Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.21 05:58:00 - [45] Originally by: hellsknights Wow, WTZ was a good thing EvE travel was to long anyhow, honestly to good pirates "the ones who can adapt" WTZ changed SH*T ALL!!! OK I GUESS PIRACY HASNT CHANGED OR ANYTHING SINCE WARP TO ZERO I MEAN ITS NOT LIKE SNIPING WAS EVER A BIG PART OF LOW SEC OR ANYTHING Victory - Honor = Loss
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.01.21 06:06:00 - [46] Originally by: hellsknights Originally by: Kiiikoooloool lol, sorry WTZ warp to zero This mechanic were introduced to counter a server side issue... it is not a gameplay intended feature and that killed lot of fun. Wow, WTZ was a good thing EvE travel was to long anyhow, honestly to good pirates "the ones who can adapt" WTZ changed SH*T ALL!!! I challenge you to kill a jump frieghter that is leaving lowsec for empire - possible with idiocy and maybe some sever issues on your side Kill a wartarget shuttle in highsec while avoiding the concordokken - possible with idiocy and maybe some server issues on your side. But warp to zero is not all about the ganks its about avoiding the gank. See smaller ships had the advantage in warp to 15k as they could close the distance to the gate faster than ye olde slowboat bs and bc's giving the runner an advantage. With warp to 15 warping to the station was not always the end of a fight
Mr Twinkie The Bastards	Posted - 2008.01.21 06:23:00 - [47] be a real man... move to low sec ----------------- The Bastards.. Come Visit
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.01.21 06:29:00 - [48] Originally by: Mr Twinkie be a real man... move to low sec please run a locater on me before you post thank you. Also I am not a empire warrior or an extortionist I am simply asking questions.
General Paul Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.21 07:00:00 - [49] An element of empire wars I found lacking post trinity is the inability to set war targets as the sole things showing up on the overview. In 0.0 this is easy as you deselect anything friendly but in an empire environment I couldnt manage to remove neutrals from the overview no matter how many options I tried.. This led inevitably to losses do you incorrect targetting (in very laggy systems) Maybe its just me..
marie blueprint	Posted - 2008.01.21 08:41:00 - [50] Originally by: General Paul An element of empire wars I found lacking post trinity is the inability to set war targets as the sole things showing up on the overview. In 0.0 this is easy as you deselect anything friendly but in an empire environment I couldnt manage to remove neutrals from the overview no matter how many options I tried.. This led inevitably to losses do you incorrect targetting (in very laggy systems) Maybe its just me.. ok now this is a good idea
Flesh Necrosis	Posted - 2008.01.21 11:37:00 - [51] Sounds like some people want war declarations to be personal and enforced by ninjas IRL to make sure the war dec'd log in.
Aslovi Caldari Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.01.21 12:14:00 - [52] This is mainly a reply to the op. If your after empire pvp for the sake of Empire pvp, then war dec someone that will fight there are many out there that will (I can give you a list if you want). If your just war dec'ing nubs and miners for some cheap skills then there has to be a game mechanic that allows them to NOT pvp, lets be honest those "Battle Hulks" aren't that good at taking down a 12 man blob squad. We survie on Empire pvp and as Merc's are fully aware that if a client wants an indie corp dealing with then we're not always going to get hundreds of kills, in fact we have done several contract where we get zero kills but still get the job done. Its about pricing the contract correctly, letting the client know that "Hey these guys are unlikely to undock do you just want them camping to stop them mining etc?" Managing clients expectations is a skill you get from doing the job for a while, keeping them fully updated, letting them know exactly what there isk is paying for. I have little time for Empire griefers, picking on the weak just because you can, there's no skill in that. On the other hand I hate the "if you want pvp go to 0.0" WTF you mean "if you want 100 man blobs and lag central go to 0.0" Not everyone wants to 0.0 pvp, we/ I do it when needed but to be perfectly honest I love the hunt in empire, locater agents, alt spies, probing the mission runners the list goes on. Back to the op, if your target is using NPC alts, then good on them, aren't you doing the same? why should they make it easy for you? hey I love it when they make us work for our isk. One of our current targets keeps bringing a fleet on "nub" ships just so they can pew pew and props to them they make the game play worth while. If your having problems with the market side of the war, if your client has the isk this can be sorted, we have been known to conduct market warfare, costly but easily done. and if there using NPC alts in haulers to move stuff get the client to cover your suicide strikes. I do agree that something could be done to stop the disbanding and reforming of corps and allainces to avoid war. Maybe give every member a war dec flag which transfers to their next corp or alliance unless they agree terms with the agressor would make sorting out surrender terms easier for me. In summary the Empire war mechanics is only broken for the greifers, the Merc's and professional empire war dec'er seem to do just fine and business couldn't be better. Anyway thats my views Aslovi IMAGE REMOVED!!!! :(
Xeronn Amarr Free Market Enterprizes Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.21 12:44:00 - [53] to the OP The things you complain about are generaly an issue with griefer corps aswell (except disbanding/npc corp hopping) , griefers allso dock whenever something with guns above civilian rails and those mighty mining lasers shows up . I can understand that thw purpose of a war is to cripple the enemy NOT have fun fair arena fights with equaly matched opponents , but then (i`m not saying OP whines) if the mechanics are to be messed with , i`d say the docking/jumping time penalty for aggroed plyers must be severaly increased...say 15 min...if you open fire you can`t dock or jump fur 15 min...how bout that? sure there could be repercutions on other game mechanics , so maybe this can be restricted to highsec? (i mean i SHOULD be able to dock in my alliance`s outpost whenever i feel like it...they won`t flag me as a threat for defending it :))
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.01.21 17:19:00 - [54] why is it always "griefer corps"
Ovek Gallente Cosmic Fusion When Fat Kids Attack	Posted - 2008.01.21 17:25:00 - [55] Originally by: Requiescat Originally by: Vikarion stuff Has anyone noticed that this guy started this character in October of '07, and has been in one player corp total in his entire impressive employment history. Remind me again why anyone is listening to him? Look, empire wardecs need to be fixed. Non-starter NPC corps need to be fixed (just ask anyone who has fought Rens 911 or been the victim of a Russian blob (there are no victories against the Russian blob, only victims)). Docking and AFKing need to be fixed. There needs to be more incentive to fight empire wars instead of just sitting in a station. Yes and people talk about how interesting walking in station will be? Great another reason for war targets to stay docked if there wasnt' enough already. "HAY MAN THIS TOTALLY RULES, 10,000ISK FOR A COFFEE".
Requiescat True Foundation Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.21 19:27:00 - [56] Originally by: Ovek Yes and people talk about how interesting walking in station will be? Great another reason for war targets to stay docked if there wasnt' enough already. "HAY MAN THIS TOTALLY RULES, 10,000ISK FOR A COFFEE". When ambulation comes out, I totally support EVE-style shooter combat. Imagine, "Orbit at 5m" and automatically circle-strafing. F1-F2, no tanking, no overpowered speed implants, it'll be PvP reborn! Originally by: Xeronn stuff lol? You must not have very much experience with "griefer" corps. Victory - Honor = Loss

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