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Conspectus
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Posted - 2008.01.22 00:06:00 -
[1]
Hi
I can currently fly Caldari battlecruisers but my combat skills (SP and experience wise) are still in their childhood. My corpies suggested I'd train up to fly a Falcon as to be support in small gang warfare since they are already high SP characters. Using Evemon I've calculated that it should take me about 60 days to fly a Falcon + a quality fitting.
My concern is that people keep telling me "oh you'll be prime'd all the time, you'll blow up very quickly..."
Now does the Falcon actually stand somewhat of a chance and is the Falcon actually useful?
Looking forward to your opinions.
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Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.01.22 00:09:00 -
[2]
the falcon is (bar none and hands down) the best recon ship in the game. it's entirely reasonable with merely decent skills to permajam 3-4 battleships with it.
the trick is to wait until the fight gets started and then uncloak and jam everyone.
-liang
--
If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt.
Consider yourself warned. ^_^ |
maihem
TBC
VENOM Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.22 00:16:00 -
[3]
jam the ships that can jam you or dampen you first. then the battleships
I dont jog, it makes the ice cubes jump right out of my glass. |
Mo Steel
Caldari
Sanguis vix Dignatio
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Posted - 2008.01.22 00:19:00 -
[4]
I'd argue the Rook is far more likely to die than the Falcon, simply because of the lack of Covert Ops Cloak.
-----
Want a sig made? Eve-Mail me, signatures made for 5 million isk each. |
Athar Mu
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Posted - 2008.01.22 00:20:00 -
[5]
The Falcon is a pretty good boat, it can be very useful in small roaming gangs. But it does take more thought to fly it and keep it in one piece.
With racial jammers you should have an optimal over 100km (if my memory serves me right). The way I fly them is to stay cloaked most of the time and be apart from the rest of the gang, when warping to a fight make sure you are as far away as your jammers will let you, align and uncloak and listen to who your FC wants you to jam. If anyone even looks like they are coming close, cloak, warp and come back in to a different place and repeat. Don't expect to do any damage.
Thats how I would fly it, just be aware you have no tank and no ability to tackle so don't come anywhere close to your opponent! If you are too close and tackled you are pretty much toast in about 10 seconds...fun boat to fly!!
If I was you I would buy a bunch of Blackbirds and a very cheap T1 fitting and join in with your corp mates in gangs to have a practice. Should cost you less than 10 million for the ship and fittings and you can see if you like it...Oh if you do want to put a small-ish tank on you can plate it but it I personally wouldn't.
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Conspectus
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Posted - 2008.01.22 00:32:00 -
[6]
Sounds fun!
So how would you guys fit it with the recent changes to ECm etc... in mind? (Ideas for the T1 version are always welcome too!)
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.01.22 00:36:00 -
[7]
None of my guys have lost a falcon in months. Maybe even a year. If you lose one, you don't know how to use it TBH.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Waxau
The Fated
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.22 00:42:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Bellum Eternus
None of my guys have lost a falcon in months. Maybe even a year. If you lose one, you don't know how to use it TBH.
As an indication, i (in my head) flame everything Bellum ever says. My mind is blank at this comment.
Ive only ever lost 2 falcons.
1 was to a Thanatos pilot i cyno'd in, and he thought it would be fun to test my tank, with his 13 templars, carrier 5, and fighters 5. I instapopped.
2nd was to a gate camp, where i got rather worried, and clicked the cloak twice (Shakes ftl :S) Ofc, i blame it on lag ;)
But generally speaking - You're the MAIN guy in the gang if you're in a falcon. Your survival insures others...so if you have to stay cloaked whilst one of your guys goes pop - Then fine. The fact that you can then uncloak and jam the other 3-4 is what counts.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.01.22 00:51:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Waxau
As an indication, i (in my head) flame everything Bellum ever says.
Ah, such is forum love. 
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.01.22 00:52:00 -
[10]
What can't lock you generally can't kill you.
As such, unless you make a bad tactical mistake, you should never die.
Pretty much what most of the above posters have already said anyway.
1|2|3|4|5. |
Tovarishch
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.01.22 01:00:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Tovarishch on 22/01/2008 01:01:50
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
None of my guys have lost a falcon in months. Maybe even a year. If you lose one, you don't know how to use it TBH.
This is completely false. If you bring a Falcon to a fleet fight all it takes is an observant enemy to lock you after you begin jamming ships... then call you primary.
Other than that a poor tactical decision or some bad luck can also mean a dead Falcon.
Edit - People who have Falcon's survive for months (assuming the use them everyday) aren't taking any appreciable risk in them. Falcons are very high (and likely #1) on the target calling list.
My crusade for faster missiles. |
R3s1d3nt 3v1L
Port Royal Independent Kontractors
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.01.22 01:10:00 -
[12]
In fleet fights falcons aren't preferred due to the fact that lag prevents them from warping out in time if they were to be called primary. An equally unsurvivable (but much more cost-efficient) ECM-ship would be a scorpion.
In small gangs, however, falcons are incredibly powerful. Just be careful when flying against other recon ships. They are very resistant to jamming, can lock you at any range, and are usually fast enough to catch you before you can warp.
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Kalek Astroth
Amarr
A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.01.22 01:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tovarishch
Edited by: Tovarishch on 22/01/2008 01:06:11
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
None of my guys have lost a falcon in months. Maybe even a year. If you lose one, you don't know how to use it TBH.
This is completely false. If you bring a Falcon to a fleet fight all it takes is an observant enemy to lock you after you begin jamming ships... then call you primary.
Other than that a poor tactical decision or some bad luck can also mean a dead Falcon.
Edit - People who have Falcons survive for months (assuming they use them everyday) aren't taking any appreciable risk in them. Falcons are very high (and likely #1) on the target calling list.
this.
try to fly the t1 version first and see if you have fun with it, falcon is pretty skill intensive
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Tovarishch
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.01.22 01:29:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Tovarishch on 22/01/2008 01:31:51
One more thing to add.
Keep in mind, though you state that you'll be running small-gang ops more frequently (this is directed to the OP)... as a covert ship you'll be asked to scout from time-to-time. All it takes is some bad luck at the wrong time to lose a Falcon while scouting for a small gang. I've lost two Falcons... one of those loses was due precisely to this exact reason. The other was in a fleet fight.
Many people always make the ridiculous comment of, 'Well, of course you got blown up in a Falcon... you brought it to a fleet fight.' Well, unlike most people... I don't ask my wingmen and the enemies to wait while I run home to my station system, change ships, and then run back to join the fight. If you're up against a lot of ships, and you're in a Falcon, and your gang goes for it... you'll likely be primary.
In that case people always say, 'Well, you should have cloaked and warped off and returned to the fight after it was well underway.' Ok, well... how much of a contribution is someone who flies a ship that is effective during 50% or 60% of the fight? It's like flying half a ship.
My crusade for faster missiles. |
Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
Knights Of Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.01.22 01:33:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tovarishch
This is completely false. If you bring a Falcon to a fleet fight all it takes is an observant enemy to lock you after you begin jamming ships... then call you primary.
I'm so glad that the entire universe revolves around 250v250 fleet fights. Excepting situations that are chaotic and unpredictable (and often as not, so lag filled that the node crashes), the Falcon performs remarkably well.
Quote:
Other than that a poor tactical decision or some bad luck can also mean a dead Falcon.
This is true of any recon.
Quote:
Edit - People who have Falcons survive for months (assuming they use them everyday) aren't taking any appreciable risk in them. Falcons are very high (and likely #1) on the target calling list.
I'd argue that there's very little reason to engage if you know you're going to be barbecued. If the fight is even approaching 'reasonable' for your gang, the Falcon will but you firmly over the top.
A falcon can put an entire small gang out of commission - mean while a Rapier can web one or two targets, an Arazu can damp one target, and the Curse can tracking disrupt less than one target.
Barring circumstances that are far beyond your control (like the node-crash-fest that MC and friends gets into), the Falcon is a very reasonable ship that will last ages if treated properly.
At this point, as much as I really don't like to admit it, I think you're just trying to provide a counterbalance to the 'rave' reviews that everyone's giving the Falcon (presumably to keep it from being nerfed).
-Liang
--
If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt.
Consider yourself warned. ^_^ |
Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
Knights Of Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.01.22 01:37:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tovarishch
Ok, well... how much of a contribution is someone who flies a ship that is effective during 50% or 60% of the fight? It's like flying half a ship.
While I'm not disagreeing with your use of the ship (I tend to lose ships in the same manner), I will say that it's more than made up for by being the equivalent of 4-5 ships in the mean time.
-Liang
--
If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt.
Consider yourself warned. ^_^ |
Tovarishch
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.01.22 01:52:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Tovarishch on 22/01/2008 01:55:26
Edited by: Tovarishch on 22/01/2008 01:54:01
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Tovarishch
This is completely false. If you bring a Falcon to a fleet fight all it takes is an observant enemy to lock you after you begin jamming ships... then call you primary.
I'm so glad that the entire universe revolves around 250v250 fleet fights. Excepting situations that are chaotic and unpredictable (and often as not, so lag filled that the node crashes), the Falcon performs remarkably well.
Hmm, can you find where in the thread that I stated that combat revolves around 250v250? For some strange reason I don't recall stating that. Oh, I know why. I didn't say it. The above quote of my post clearly states a fairly accurate truth. As I qualified 'fleet fight' in that post I'm not sure why you decided to exaggerate.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Quote:
Other than that a poor tactical decision or some bad luck can also mean a dead Falcon.
This is true of any recon.
Very true. But this thread isn't about those other recons.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Quote:
Edit - People who have Falcons survive for months (assuming they use them everyday) aren't taking any appreciable risk in them. Falcons are very high (and likely #1) on the target calling list.
I'd argue that there's very little reason to engage if you know you're going to be barbecued. If the fight is even approaching 'reasonable' for your gang, the Falcon will but you firmly over the top.
I'd argue that I can't recall a moment in the vast number of fights I've had where I felt compelled to ask the FC to please not engage simply because I didn't feel like losing my ship. EVE is about having fun. Sometimes fun means being vastly outnumbered. Sometimes being vastly outnumbered means losing a ship. It happens. The OP asked for advice regarding the Falcon, I provided a bit from my personal experience.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
A falcon can put an entire small gang out of commission - mean while a Rapier can web one or two targets, an Arazu can damp one target, and the Curse can tracking disrupt less than one target.
Not true. The Falcon has a chance to put a small gang out of commission. Unlike the other means of EW that you bring up... they are not analogs of ECM. ECM is chance based... all the others are not. I have every conceivable skill related to the Falcon at 5... and I've had bad days where I jam one ship out of 4 or 5. Hell, sometimes I'll miss a jam entirely. You don't suffer from that problem with other forms of EW. Comparing the two is a tremendous misrepresentation. Oh, and why exactly can an Arazu damp only one target? That's news to me.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Barring circumstances that are far beyond your control (like the node-crash-fest that MC and friends gets into), the Falcon is a very reasonable ship that will last ages if treated properly.
Why the shot at MC? Regardless, when playing an online game famous for lag during fights I won't discount any possibility. Such issues are a reality of the game... it's part of the equation. Since the OP asked for advice I provided it.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
At this point, as much as I really don't like to admit it, I think you're just trying to provide a counterbalance to the 'rave' reviews that everyone's giving the Falcon (presumably to keep it from being nerfed).
I have no clue what the Hell you're talking about. It's a great ship. I've said it a million times. Up until the recent boost it wasn't nearly as popular. If you think it's some invincible beast the petition the ship. I honestly think it's a fine ship that is strong for its class and well-balanced. God knows it's one of the few very useful Caldari PVP ships.
My crusade for faster missiles. |
Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
Knights Of Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.01.22 02:03:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tovarishch
Hmm, can you find where in the thread that I stated that combat revolves around 250v250? For some strange reason I don't recall stating that. Oh, I know why. I didn't say it. The above quote of my post clearly states a fairly accurate truth. As I qualified 'fleet fight' in that post I'm not sure why you decided to exaggerate.
Exaggerate? They even made an Eve news item regarding how you guys crashed the node.
Quote:
Very true. But this thread isn't about those other recons.
Right, but you seemed to imply that it was somehow more true of the Falcon than the other recons (which is false).
Quote:
I'd argue that I can't recall a moment in the vast number of fights I've had where I felt compelled to ask the FC to please not engage simply because I didn't feel like losing my ship. EVE is about having fun. Sometimes fun means being vastly outnumbered. Sometimes being vastly outnumbered means losing a ship. It happens. The OP asked for advice regarding the Falcon, I provided a bit from my personal experience.
I'd say that it's good to be outnumbered sometimes, but in reality, there's no valid reason to simply throw your 'expensive' ships away for a fight you can avoid. There'll be plenty enough fights that you *CAN'T* avoid.
Quote:
Not true. The Falcon has a chance to put a small gang out of commission. Unlike the other means of EW that you bring up... they are not analogs of ECM. ECM is chance based... all the others are not.
...
Comparing the two is a tremendous misrepresentation.
After the optimal range on damps is reached, they become 'chance based' after a fashion. The optimal on damps is much lower than that of ECM. It's not exactly equivalent, but it's a misrepresentation of the truth to say that all other forms of ewar are guaranteed.
Quote:
Oh, and why exactly can an Arazu damp only one target? That's news to me.
Oh, I don't know.... Maybe when the damp nerf happened? Hell it takes two damps to damp an interceptor out of the fight - and they have notoriously low locking ranges!
Quote:
Why the shot at MC? Regardless, when playing an online game famous for lag during fights I won't discount any possibility. Such issues are a reality of the game... it's part of the equation. Since the OP asked for advice I provided it.
Eh, the shot at MC because of the recent news item regarding how you guys killed a node, and how it's not exactly a one-time thing. TBH, I'm a *HUGE* MC fan.
Quote:
It's a great ship.
...
Up until the recent boost it wasn't nearly as popular.
Because the rook was entirely 'better' until the recent boost. Now it's a much more 'even' playing field.
Quote:
If you think it's some invincible beast the petition the ship. I honestly think it's a fine ship that is strong for its class and well-balanced. God knows it's one of the few very useful Caldari PVP ships.
Why the hell would I petition it? I *FLY* it!
-Liang
--
If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt.
Consider yourself warned. ^_^ |
Stuart Price
Caldari
Havoc Inc
Blood Blind
|
Posted - 2008.01.22 03:36:00 -
[19]
Setup correctly, a Falcon can jam well past 200km. This is very very handy.
"I got soul but I'm not a soldier" |
Tovarishch
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.01.22 05:22:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Tovarishch on 22/01/2008 05:25:45
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Exaggerate? They even made an Eve news item regarding how you guys crashed the node.
A. Feel free to point this news item out for me.
B. Even if it were true, what does this have to do with the thread?
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Right, but you seemed to imply that it was somehow more true of the Falcon than the other recons (which is false).
Other than using the word 'Falcon' feel free, again, to point out where I 'imply' this is more true to the Falcon.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I'd say that it's good to be outnumbered sometimes, but in reality, there's no valid reason to simply throw your 'expensive' ships away for a fight you can avoid. There'll be plenty enough fights that you *CAN'T* avoid.
I'd agree with this sentiment if it were possible to read the future and determine what might happen in 30 minutes or an hour. I fly ships that are fun and fit the job at hand. If a group wants to throw three times the number of pople at us I don't get to pick what ship I get to throw at them. While this may seem strange... many times we fight what's thrown at us... not only the times when it's advantageous for everyone but one person stuck in a recon ship who may not want to lose it.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
After the optimal range on damps is reached, they become 'chance based' after a fashion. The optimal on damps is much lower than that of ECM. It's not exactly equivalent, but it's a misrepresentation of the truth to say that all other forms of ewar are guaranteed.
So your comparison is further misrepresented by saying that ECM is going to be operating inside optimals and any other form of EW is not. More apples and oranges. Those forms of EW are balanced that way for a reason.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Oh, I don't know.... Maybe when the damp nerf happened? Hell it takes two damps to damp an interceptor out of the fight - and they have notoriously low locking ranges!
I disgaree. I have three alts... four characters total. One is dedicated to each race. All of them are over 4 years old and range from 50m to 79m SPs. I fly my Gallente one with a bit of regularity, and while I haven't spent a tremendous amount of time with that character since the change, I don't find myself struggling to effectively damp two or even three ships with my Arazu... which, coincidently, happens to be that character's most focused and specialized ship.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Eh, the shot at MC because of the recent news item regarding how you guys killed a node, and how it's not exactly a one-time thing. TBH, I'm a *HUGE* MC fan.
I honestly have no clue what you are talking about. If you are talking about the BoB Titan incident, we were actually a rather minor player in that episode. Why you would fixate on our rather minor participation is odd... and interesting.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Because the rook was entirely 'better' until the recent boost. Now it's a much more 'even' playing field.
I completely agree. I honestly believe the Falcon needed some love, and was arguably a bit weak before the boost. Now it's a great ship. Easily a top-shelf Caldari PVP ship... which are few and far between.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Why the hell would I petition it? I *FLY* it!
Haha... touche! Got me there.
My crusade for faster missiles. |
Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
Knights Of Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.01.22 05:35:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tovarishch
So your comparison is further misrepresented by saying that ECM is going to be operating inside optimals and any other form of EW is not. More apples and oranges. Those forms of EW are balanced that way for a reason.
With an optimal range of 130km with multispecs and 200km with racials, I'd say that's a pretty damn good bet, actually.
Comparing that to the 45km optimal that an Arazu gets on damps...
-Liang
--
If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt.
Consider yourself warned. ^_^ |
Tovarishch
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.01.22 05:40:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Tovarishch
So your comparison is further misrepresented by saying that ECM is going to be operating inside optimals and any other form of EW is not. More apples and oranges. Those forms of EW are balanced that way for a reason.
With an optimal range of 130km with multispecs and 200km with racials, I'd say that's a pretty damn good bet, actually.
Comparing that to the 45km optimal that an Arazu gets on damps...
Regardless, 100% of all range of ECM is chance-based. That cannot be said for any other form of EW.
Granted, I understand your point, and there is some validity to it. However, there will be days for every Falcon pilot where you are watching your shields and armor melt quickly away thanks to having some bad luck on ECM chance roles... while you know precisely what is going to happen within the predictable, and less useful, range of all other forms of EW.
Honestly, I'll take less useful and more predictable most any day of the week.
My crusade for faster missiles. |
Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
Knights Of Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.01.22 05:55:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tovarishch
Regardless, 100% of all range of ECM is chance-based. That cannot be said for any other form of EW.
While it's true that ECM is 100% chanced based (and thus has an extra layer of chance to it), it's not as though there's nothing you can do to affect those chances (and indeed, those chances are mighty good!)
Quote:
Granted, I understand your point, and there is some validity to it. However, there will be days for every Falcon pilot where you are watching your shields and armor melt quickly away thanks to having some bad luck on ECM chance roles... while you know precisely what is going to happen within the predictable, and less useful, range of all other forms of EW.
It's not as though you can't get under the Arazu's damps lickety split - and tracking disruptors are virtually useless even against turret ships.
Quote:
Honestly, I'll take less useful and more predictable most any day of the week.
TBH, when you can affect those 'chances' as much as you can with the Falcon and Rook, they're just as predictable as those 'guaranteed' forms of ewar.
-Liang
--
If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt.
Consider yourself warned. ^_^ |
Tovarishch
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.01.22 06:00:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
TBH, when you can affect those 'chances' as much as you can with the Falcon and Rook, they're just as predictable as those 'guaranteed' forms of ewar.
We'll have to part ways here... as I'm a cynic and likely pessimistic enough to ever count on what I consider the lack of predictability of ECM when compared to the 100% surety of slightly less powerful forms of EW.
PS. I'm still waiting for those news links on us crashing the server, etc!
My crusade for faster missiles. |
Ariel Dawn
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.01.22 06:09:00 -
[25]
Depends on what you mean by small gang. In regular small gang action (not fleet fitted, etc), the falcon is pretty much invulnerable. Anything with enough speed to close the distance between the fight and the falcon tends to have terrible sensor strength (ceptors, HACs) and can be perma-jammed easily. Warp off at your leisure should you dislike the situation and come back in cloaked and continue harassment.
As a previous poster stated; when properly flown it's next to impossible to kill one. Far better chances of catching a nano-HAC than a Falcon.
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Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
Knights Of Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.01.22 06:14:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tovarishch
We'll have to part ways here... as I'm a cynic and likely pessimistic enough to ever count on what I consider the lack of predictability of ECM when compared to the 100% surety of slightly less powerful forms of EW.
New and improved! Phased Muon Remote Sensor Dampeners, guaranteed to work between 20 and 45km!
Get it while it's hot! Balmer Series Tracking Disruptors, guaranteed to not ever work!
Oh, yeah, that ECM thing. It only sometimes works.. you know, like almost 100% of the time at any range between 0km and 200km. But it has a chance of failing... so it completely sucks.
Quote:
PS. I'm still waiting for those news links on us crashing the server, etc!
I took a look through the news archives, and wasn't able to come up with the link to the news article about MC saving* BOB's Titan (Perhaps a gross overdramatization, but I'm allowed to fanboi a bit). However, I know it was there, and I know that 'you' (collectively) were there.
OTOH, I'm sure a comprehensive search through CAOD and General could find a 'few' more node-deaths that you guys were involved in. Seriously, don't bother trying to deny it - because you guys are involved (whether you're the main culprit or not).
* Flamebait anyone? =)
-Liang
--
If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt.
Consider yourself warned. ^_^ |
Tovarishch
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.01.22 06:54:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Tovarishch on 22/01/2008 06:54:42
Originally by: Liang Nuren
New and improved! Phased Muon Remote Sensor Dampeners, guaranteed to work between 20 and 45km!
Ignoring falloff? Way to go.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Get it while it's hot! Balmer Series Tracking Disruptors, guaranteed to not ever work!
Why make ridiculous exagerrations that make your argument look stupid? Tracking disruptors might not be amazing, but they certainly are significantly effective, particularly against large turrets.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Oh, yeah, that ECM thing. It only sometimes works.. you know, like almost 100% of the time at any range between 0km and 200km. But it has a chance of failing... so it completely sucks.
More emotionally charged exaggeration. Why make such ridiculous overstatements? Certainly you don't believe this nonsense?
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I took a look through the news archives, and wasn't able to come up with the link to the news article about MC saving* BOB's Titan (Perhaps a gross overdramatization, but I'm allowed to fanboi a bit). However, I know it was there, and I know that 'you' (collectively) were there.
Convenient. You can't find it. But you'll believe what you like. Interesting. Sounds like most of CAOD.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
OTOH, I'm sure a comprehensive search through CAOD and General could find a 'few' more node-deaths that you guys were involved in. Seriously, don't bother trying to deny it - because you guys are involved (whether you're the main culprit or not).
Seeing that we're currently involved in one of the largest conflicts in the game on a node known for being unstable I'm not sure why anyone would deny this statement. It takes two (or more) to create such problems. That you like pointing fingers shows your true colors... and possibly age.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
* Flamebait anyone? =)
Seriously, why bother with this childish stuff? Particularly in a Falcon thread where it has nothing to do with anything at hand, or anything that I've said.
My crusade for faster missiles. |
Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.01.22 07:07:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 22/01/2008 07:11:44
Originally by: Tovarishch
Ignoring falloff? Way to go.
Whereas you ignore a 200km optimal? Way to go.
Damps, on the other hand, have zero buffer room. Small and fast ships are 100% immune to damps, and large and slow ships typically have sensor boosters fit anyway.
Hell, you can make a very viable case for fitting a straight ECM fit on your Arazu after the damp nerf - and that really shouldn't be the case.
Quote:
Why make ridiculous exagerrations that make your argument look stupid? Tracking disruptors might not be amazing, but they certainly are significantly effective, particularly against large turrets.
Um, not particularly. The optimal range part of the script is 100% useless (long range guns have a longer optimal, and short range guns don't particularly care about optimal), and the tracking is only questionably useless.
At best, you can save your drones with the tracking script from large turrets - unless they fit a web (which they do).
Quote:
More emotionally charged exaggeration. Why make such ridiculous overstatements? Certainly you don't believe this nonsense?
Actually, ECM is far, far, far and away the best ewar in the game right now. There's no valid case for it not to be. Of course, ECM boats give up alot to obtain the uber ewar status that they obtain - such as all versatility.
-Liang
Ed: I am going to be the 'bigger man' and drop this for the second time. If you really want to go rounds and show how old you are, please continue.
--
If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt.
Consider yourself warned. ^_^ |
Iguanoid
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Posted - 2008.01.22 07:07:00 -
[29]
Falcons are great ships and my personal favourite out of the recon ships i can fly - arazu/lachesis and falcon/rook. Flying solo you have a great chance to escape if you get caught out by bad luck, purely by jamming the lock of the warp scramming hostile and running away. In small gangs just decloaking once the initial contact has been initiated and then jam the crap out of everything. In fleets when you are 170km+ out from the main engagement and decloaking after things kick off it takes a very fast ship to get on you and lock you down, and by the time any support for it has arrived your jamming cycle should have reset and you can unlock yourself and warp. Stay aligned, fit a plate and be rdy to leave the battle if engaged ;)
The only falcon i have ever lost was warped onto while cloaked and afk in a once in a lifetime scenario (i hope) ;)
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Tovarishch
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.01.22 07:19:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Tovarishch on 22/01/2008 07:27:35
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Whereas you ignore a 200km optimal? Way to go.
I did nothing of the sort. I stated earlier that the statistics of falloff and optimal for all EW are a part of their inherent balance and counterbalance. The discussion here is chance based and non-chance based. If you think other forms of EW need a boost then start a thread about it. Stop crying about it in a thread where some innocent guy asked for advice on the usefulness of a Falcon.. and several of us focused specifically on the Falcon... when suddenly 'someone' decided to believe that someone had somehow implied something required an argument regarding something totally off topic.
Also, you stated yourself (rather well, I'll add) that one of the massive counterbalances to ECM effectiveness is how crippling it is on a setup. What it in reality means is no tank... while all other races can run their racial EW and a tank.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Tovarishch
Convenient. You can't find it. But you'll believe what you like. Interesting. Sounds like most of CAOD.
Actually, I dropped it, but you keep egging it on. Hell, I even straight up said in this thread that I rather like Mercenary Coalition.
But no, you won't ******* drop it no matter what. And hell, it's not like there wasn't a news article about it.
Indeed, I did bring it back up, because you dropped it like a hot potato when you likely realized that it was foolish of you to make some off-base, patently false, and utterly ridiculous exaggeration regarding a topic that has zero to do with the thread. You don't slip some petulant comment in like that and then drop it at your convenience when it gets too hot for you.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
WTF? You go randomly smacking and flaming someone's age? When have I brought up age in this discussion? They do say that those who are insecure about something attack it in others.... so are you what, 12 or something?
Delicious irony buried in this statement. Kudos.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Yeah, why are you bothering with this 'childish stuff'. I dropped it - and you won't. I made an entire smack free post, and you bring the smack into it.
Are you wanting an award or a pat on the back for the massive effort it took for you to actually avoid flaming someone? Shouldn't that actually be the status quo and not some incredible feat?
Originally by: Liang Nuren
If you want to smack, that's fine. I'm pretty creative and occasionally enjoy thrashing someone a bit.
Feel free. I have no interest in 'flames'. I came here to discuss the Falcon and you started in with patently false statements that were completely off topic. Regardless, if you want to start some flamefest I don't mind helping someone show their true colors.
My crusade for faster missiles. |
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