EVE Search - Trading old useless skills for skillpoints in another skill

All Channels

Skill Discussions

Trading old useless skills for skillpoints in another skill

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Bellon	Posted - 2004.03.24 14:58:00 - [1] I think that there should be a posibility to trade your useless skillpoints for skillpoints in another skill. For example, i don''t mine, so this skill is totally useless for me now. I used to have my own corp, which i don''t have now, so all my Corporation Management skills are also useless. I think that you for say the Miner skill that is a Rank 1 skill and 256.000 skill points, you should be able to trade this for another Rank 1 skill with maybe a 10% loss of skillpoints. If you trade it to a Rank 2 skill you loose 20% of the skillpoints etc etc. The loss is there cause elseway you could just change whenever you want and always be good at everything, so the loss of points is a must, but still a way of getting some sort of use for all those wasted skillpoints. Couldn't this be something for next patch? Kinda sucks having hundreds of thousands of skillpoints that are totally useless! I don't think i am the only one who in the beginning made some bad descissions with my skilltraining.
ElricUK	Posted - 2004.03.24 15:43:00 - [2] Think about what your saying for a moment. Say you go out and take some French language classes. You decide u dont want to know Grench anymore, but German. U cant just convert the stuff you have learnt about French into German, no u have to learn it from scratch.
Bellon	Posted - 2004.03.24 15:48:00 - [3] Quote: Think about what your saying for a moment. Say you go out and take some French language classes. You decide u dont want to know Grench anymore, but German. U cant just convert the stuff you have learnt about French into German, no u have to learn it from scratch. I don't know if anyone told you this, but this is a game! :) The skills are already unrealistic, you can train train train and be good at something the first time you try it. This is not the case in real life. No matter how many lessons i got in the army, the first time i fired my weapon i still wasn't good at it although i knew very well how to use it.
Carmen Priano	Posted - 2004.03.24 15:58:00 - [4] The method of learning is different, though; it's a form of mental programming. So you train, train, train while sitting in a pod -- having the memory engram system create 'memories' of having done various things, memories of training for it. ;)
Bellon	Posted - 2004.03.24 16:20:00 - [5] Damnit, don't argue with me on this one, agree with me! :) This is something we all would benefit from...
Hardin	Posted - 2004.03.24 16:42:00 - [6] Nope its silly I also have Mining 5 and Astrogeology 4 and aint mined for about 4 months... but that is my choice... to convert them into SP in another area is completely illogical... Its like studying for a math's degree and when its awarded its Geography!
Severe McCald	Posted - 2004.03.24 16:42:00 - [7] No we wouldn't. Some people had greater forsight and now have the benefit of it. You and I didn't. Tough TT. If they give you this (which they wont) then I want to swap my attributes around. In fact, I want to swap them around with retrospective effect, so that all the skills I previously trained would be treated as trained under my new attributes. I would then have saved about 5 months of training time AND I want the skill points I would have trained in that time. Oh, and a blow job. Come on devs, make my day. Sev And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land.
Bellon	Posted - 2004.03.24 17:12:00 - [8] You don't think this is a good idea even if there is a loss of points everytime you move the skillpoints to another skill? I think it's fair and realistic. As of now i study computers, if i in 2-3 years change my mind and want to study math, i won't have to start all over since there is math included in computer engineering, just not as much as in a pure math program. Almost same thing, i change direction of my studies with a loss.
Severe McCald	Posted - 2004.03.24 18:06:00 - [9] Dear Bellon, you may have missed my point, due to it having been embedded in sarcasm. If you could reallocate sp's, you would simply train all your skills using your best two attributes (and for a new character, max only two attributes and do only the specific learning skills for those two attributes). The time saving involved would certainly justify switching on this basis, unless the penalty was quite heavy (say 50% plus). In addition, your idea would remove attributes and the choice of them from being relevant to the game. I understand that, at some point, attributes are intended (or may be intended) to have a direct effect on the game. Because of the effect described above, if switching were to be introduced, players who have spent considerable time training skills with poor attributes will have lost out to players who maxed the speed of training only (without necessarily worrying about which skills they trained) and to new players who could adopt the strategy described above. It is for this reason that I make the point that I should be able retrospectively reallocate my attributes and skill points etc. As for your analogy, it might work within classes of skill (eg switching hybrid skill to projectile), but it makes no sense for wholly different skill sets. I can drive a car, so I'm sure preparing this souffle will be easy (no). Severe And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land.
Bellon	Posted - 2004.03.24 18:11:00 - [10] I get your point. But what if the loss was 50% or more then? Of course the loss must be calculated so there is no way of benefiting from training one skill then moving the skillpoints. I could gladly do a loss of up to 90-95% of the skillpoints as long as i would have any use of the useless points. Cause as it is now, i got 100% loss in some skillpoints cause i have no use what so ever for them. I would benefit of any loss below 100%. Players who played beta for a long time knew exactly what to train when Retail was released, i just played beta for some weeks, and when retail was out i was still clueless what to train and just trained crap skills wich i never use today.
Soren	Posted - 2004.03.24 18:13:00 - [11] Bad idea IMO. People with VERY high attributes could train their quick skills, then just transfer the points. Just found a loop, the idea won't even be considered >_< _________________________________________________________
DHU InMe	Posted - 2004.03.24 18:32:00 - [12] Right soren. We should fix a penality of 30-40% to recover/change a skill pts in another. Nice links (updated 20 Dec 04): BP, bugs about them. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way.
DeathBunny	Posted - 2004.03.24 19:39:00 - [13] I'd love to get rid of a character that has 3mil SP on it and transfer it to my current character (yes I restarted due to crappy attrabutes that really sucked time up for training don't ask me as the original owner my friend). I'd love to convert those points on this character but I highly doubt that would happen. It would be nice for a 1 time reason but other then that not worth the time for programing at this time. *Fear The Bunny*
Ezra	Posted - 2004.03.25 01:29:00 - [14] I think it would be a good idea in VERY limited circumstances. Specifically, if a skill is significantly changed in its effect, the player should have the option of unlearning that particular skill (most likely with some sort of penalty). This should be done on a case-by-case basis by CCP. A good example would be acceleration control, a skill that used to be worthwhile to train to Lv5 at rank 4, but is now not even worth training it if were rank 2 instead of the current rank 5. Another possibility would be to allow "respeccing" a skill generically, for a price. (Such as requiring a rare NPC drop.) The two above methods are how DAoC handles the issue of "respecs" - Respecs are granted to a single class if significant changes are made to a that classes' spec lines. Other than that, the only full/partial respecs available are rare drops from tough monsters. (For example, full respec stones only drop from each realm's dragon - which can pwn 200 players attacking it at once with its hand tied behind its back.) ------------ Ezra Cornell pe0n, Xanadu Corporation
Qual	Posted - 2004.03.25 09:34:00 - [15] Actually changing attribs would make more sense... But I hope thats what the Genetic Mutators will be for... As for "trading" skills, its just a plain bad idea that just have to many exploits. example: I train a skill based on mem and int (24 & 19 for me). Now i trade it to a per and wil skill (11 and 14 for me) even with a 10% penalty thats a GOOD trade. No. Its just a bad idea. Head of Xanadu Elite Ships Department
PreTender	Posted - 2004.03.25 10:23:00 - [16] Edited by: PreTender on 25/03/2004 10:27:15 easy way to fix the problem with skill trasnfer and attributes is: * just random numbers * if i have int at 10 and skill has 100points and i want to transfer it to a skill that has 5willpower i would only be able to transfer 50 points then (and the other 50 will be lost because of the lower attributes). Out of that 50you can transfer there might be a 10% penalty so you could only transfer 45skill points so thats the solution to transfer skills around :) with different attributes and different training times pros: - you could change skills without have to worry about attributes cons: - you will lose skill points... actually you will only transfer training time and not the skill points themselfs. __________________________ http://www.eve-extra.com
Bellon	Posted - 2004.03.25 11:25:00 - [17] PreTender: yeah that's a good idea. That is somewhat what i had in mind. Maybe as you say you can transfer your training time with some loss, not the skillpoints, then the attributes won't matter.
PreTender	Posted - 2004.03.25 12:44:00 - [18] Also maybe a limit on how many skills can be changed a day 0-5? (depending on a skill :P) And players wont start hopping with skills because if they do i to much they lose to many points because of the 10% loss each time __________________________ http://www.eve-extra.com
Ezra	Posted - 2004.03.25 17:02:00 - [19] Edited by: Ezra on 25/03/2004 17:04:02 Quote: Actually changing attribs would make more sense... But I hope thats what the Genetic Mutators will be for... As for "trading" skills, its just a plain bad idea that just have to many exploits. example: I train a skill based on mem and int (24 & 19 for me). Now i trade it to a per and wil skill (11 and 14 for me) even with a 10% penalty thats a GOOD trade. No. Its just a bad idea. Add to my aforementioned requirements of having a high cost of some sort for a respec (such as point penalties and requirements of a rare item) penalties based on attributes, similar to what Pretender talked about except in addition to his ideas, have a 20-30% penalty plus a requirement for a rare drop item (or agent reward with rarity similar to implants) for each skill "respecced". Not exploitable, and only used by those that are REALLY desperate. (e.g. if you trained Accel Control up to 5, which is UTTERLY WORTHLESS now - even recovering 25% of those skillpoints would be worthwhile.) ------------ Ezra Cornell pe0n, Xanadu Corporation
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.03.25 20:15:00 - [20] Quote: Edited by: Ezra on 25/03/2004 17:04:02 Quote: Actually changing attribs would make more sense... But I hope thats what the Genetic Mutators will be for... As for "trading" skills, its just a plain bad idea that just have to many exploits. example: I train a skill based on mem and int (24 & 19 for me). Now i trade it to a per and wil skill (11 and 14 for me) even with a 10% penalty thats a GOOD trade. No. Its just a bad idea. Add to my aforementioned requirements of having a high cost of some sort for a respec (such as point penalties and requirements of a rare item) penalties based on attributes, similar to what Pretender talked about except in addition to his ideas, have a 20-30% penalty plus a requirement for a rare drop item (or agent reward with rarity similar to implants) for each skill "respecced". Not exploitable, and only used by those that are REALLY desperate. (e.g. if you trained Accel Control up to 5, which is UTTERLY WORTHLESS now - even recovering 25% of those skillpoints would be worthwhile.) You see the trouble is, which skill is worthless depends on the char, accel control 5 would rock for me, since I fly blaster boats only. Plan your character correctly and there's no need for this kind of thing, mess up and live with it. Game true, but all games have rules and limitations it's to keep a even playing field where the making the right choice pays off. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Muaddid	Posted - 2004.03.26 06:19:00 - [21] tbh it would be a useless and illogical feature or a an exploit heaven... neither looks good from a developpement point of view i bet ;) On vacations (need a new sig too)
PreTender	Posted - 2004.03.26 07:19:00 - [22] whats wrong with my point of view then ? not taking the skill points but taking the training time with a bit of loss ?...if you try to jump skills alot you will lose alot of time and points (Like 10% each time) __________________________ http://www.eve-extra.com
Muspell	Posted - 2004.03.27 23:38:00 - [23] you have 25 perc 20 will... you train surgical strike lvl 5 in a few days move it to astrogeology... and voila! you've exploited, takes a LOT longer time to train that with your 5 int 6 mem or some
Derran	Posted - 2004.04.04 19:01:00 - [24] I'd prefer the ability to delete some skills completely and reduce the cost of my clone, though I've only used a clone once now. Being here almost a year now, I have some skills that I now no longer use due to changes put into the game over the course of the year. There are definitely skills that I have that I could do without.
Ezra	Posted - 2004.04.04 19:41:00 - [25] Quote: Quote: Edited by: Ezra on 25/03/2004 17:04:02 Quote: Actually changing attribs would make more sense... But I hope thats what the Genetic Mutators will be for... As for "trading" skills, its just a plain bad idea that just have to many exploits. example: I train a skill based on mem and int (24 & 19 for me). Now i trade it to a per and wil skill (11 and 14 for me) even with a 10% penalty thats a GOOD trade. No. Its just a bad idea. Add to my aforementioned requirements of having a high cost of some sort for a respec (such as point penalties and requirements of a rare item) penalties based on attributes, similar to what Pretender talked about except in addition to his ideas, have a 20-30% penalty plus a requirement for a rare drop item (or agent reward with rarity similar to implants) for each skill "respecced". Not exploitable, and only used by those that are REALLY desperate. (e.g. if you trained Accel Control up to 5, which is UTTERLY WORTHLESS now - even recovering 25% of those skillpoints would be worthwhile.) You see the trouble is, which skill is worthless depends on the char, accel control 5 would rock for me, since I fly blaster boats only. Plan your character correctly and there's no need for this kind of thing, mess up and live with it. Game true, but all games have rules and limitations it's to keep a even playing field where the making the right choice pays off. All the planning in the world goes out the window when the cost/reward ratio of a particular skill changes significantly. My point was that while training acceleration control 5 is now considered a "mistake", it previously was not. AC5 used to be worth the training time, even to get it to L5 as a Rank4 skill. Now, it is not by any means worth the training time, as the effects of the skill were SEVERELY reduced to an amount that is essentially negligible when Castor came out. As to the later poster giving an example of training one skill where you have 25 in the attribute and switching it to another where you only have 6 - A number of us made the point that the "respec" system should carry heavy penalties and should be attribute-weighted - i.e. if you fully train a skill with 25/25 of an attribute, and switch it to a skill where you have, for example 10/10 attributes, you will only transfer 10/25 of the points in the old skill to the new skill, PLUS a 25-50% penalty. In other words, if respeccing is put into the game, the costs should be extreme (require a rare drop item and carry high SP penalties), making it an option only for those who are DESPERATE to change a skill. (Which in 90% of all cases will be a skill that was changed significantly by CCP, such as the aforementioned acceleration control supernerf.) ------------ Ezra Cornell pe0n, Xanadu Corporation
Project Unknown	Posted - 2004.04.04 23:11:00 - [26] For someone who can't even spell his corp name right (Dead Wieght?) you come up with some whack idea's. What would skills mean if everybody could just switch from one specialization to another?even with a penalty, this isn't gonna work.If you've been a carebear miner for 6 months and finally figured mining Veldspar isn't all that fun, that doesn't mean you can now be an uber pvp'er.Get a second account.
XpoHoc	Posted - 2004.04.05 03:16:00 - [27] Don't like the idea, I would like to keep as much realism as possible in this game.
Darkwolf	Posted - 2004.04.05 05:09:00 - [28] Don't forget kiddies, even with a SP penalty, there's nothing stopping the following scenario... 1. Character with HUGE perception/willpower trains up a battleship skill to level 4. 2. Character swaps those skill points across to a skill he's bad in, in a category he has a low attribute in. 3. Return to step 1, training the same skill up again :)
Veko	Posted - 2004.04.05 08:55:00 - [29] Quote: you have 25 perc 20 will... you train surgical strike lvl 5 in a few days move it to astrogeology... and voila! you've exploited, takes a LOT longer time to train that with your 5 int 6 mem or some That explains it all, no more comments needed Fighting for the perfection of sweets' recepies Yesterday's fiction is today's reality
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.04.05 10:48:00 - [30] Perhaps the skill point transfer could only be done inside each skill class. i.e you can trade gunnery skills skillpoints but only add them to another gunnery skill. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.