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Kira Star
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Posted - 2008.01.22 18:14:00 -
[1]
Which one is better and why? Tried to search but couldn't find any good stuff, like why you should pick one and why.
Why I want one? I am looking for a future mission-ship that makes me complete level 4 mission in the shortest amount of time. I am doing level 3's at the moment and want to know what skills I should focus on if I pick one of the above ships (Nightmare, Paladin or CNR).
Also any links to post where the subject has been discussed is welcomed!
Thanks in advance!
Best regards, Kira
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Byzan Zwyth
Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.01.22 18:35:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Byzan Zwyth on 22/01/2008 18:35:01 If you see the ability to loot & salvage during the mission on a single character as a bonus then I'd say the paladin. Not much behind the other two but has the big cargo bay and a tractor beam bonus.
If not then it may be a toss up between the other two. Nightmare having the edge against EM weak factions and style. CNR being versitile in it's ability to pick damage types.
My personal Choice would be the paladin.
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Vanlade
Amarr Blood Holocaust
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Posted - 2008.01.22 18:53:00 -
[3]
If it is for missions, take a CNR. The best would be the Golem.
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Helen
Eve Innovative Technologies
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Posted - 2008.01.22 19:05:00 -
[4]
Ok you say you want to complete missions as fast possible with no regard to looting then go for the Nightmare. Dps is just outstanding and the only thing keeping this ship cheap atm is the fact not many people have good enough skills to fire lasers and keep a shield tank going. Its definitely not a ship for low sp but then neither is the Paladin.
Personally I prefer the Nightmare and it still does Guristas/Angel missions in a comparable time to my old CNR. Paladin like others say is good if you want to loot/salvage on the go but I use one for a oversized salvage boat!
Top Tip - Don't eat yellow snow |
Everyone Dies
Caldari Lucky Tampon
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Posted - 2008.01.22 19:25:00 -
[5]
Golem > Paladin, Nightmare, CNR
Golem has a far superior tank than a CNR and does way more DPS.
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Fon Revedhort
Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion
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Posted - 2008.01.22 19:33:00 -
[6]
The point is that you don't need a great tank for lvl 4, so Nightmare does its job just fine.
That all depends on your style, whether your prefer semi-afk mission grinding or some quick pwnage.
I personally use Nightmare and see no need to train for Paladin, though I might try CNR the other day. Doubt it will impress me though. ---
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zayanka
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Posted - 2008.01.22 20:01:00 -
[7]
I tried all of them and used all of them.
Lets assume that you r going to use all faction/complex setup on your ships, thats what u will get at the end
Nightmare almost unsustainable shield tank, i used it with this setup: 4 tachyons, Gist XL b-type, gist b type amp, 4 hardeners, 1 cap rech t2 (or 3 hardeners and domi web). Rigs CCC rigsTry to fit noses, but in my opinion they dont work too well atm. Does exellent damage. Basicaly if u can shoot everything before it approaches, then it is the best ship. Unfortunately in some missions you get aggro right on top of u.
Paladin fully sustanable tank, does good damage. Used it and still use it with the following setup:
2-3 HS, 3-4 hardeners, Centus A-type rep, 3 cap rech t2, domi web, mega beams t2, 2 salvager, 1 tractor beam
Both of those ships r not very effective at close range and against rats tanking Em/thermal damage.
Navy raven with similar setup to nightmare runs it's tank almost forever, but does rather low damage, but it is effective against any NPC and in any range.
So in my opinion, if you r looking for a semi afk mission running, then go for CNR. Good fun ship with exellent damage go for paladin, If u wish to risk several billions on every day basis, go for nightmare
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Kira Star
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Posted - 2008.01.22 20:27:00 -
[8]
Thanks for the replies so far, many good suggestions why ship "x" should be chosen.
Every ship has it own strengths and faults, and if I could have the best of two worlds, I would have the skillsets to handle both the Golem/CNR and the Paladin/Nightmare. Some day I might, but now ;)...
I like lasers, because you don't have to buy missiles all the time (or even forget them in the hangar for that matter).
Cargo space is always nice to have when salvaging and the Paladin has that.
Tough call yet, need more feedback before I decide what skills and ship I should buy/train.
Cheers!
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.01.22 20:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Everyone Dies Golem > Paladin, Nightmare, CNR
Golem has a far superior tank than a CNR and does way more DPS.
Tank part is true, damage part is not. If you use similar fittings then CNR does more damage than Golem (16 % more on paper, a bit less, but still more in reality). For 'speedrunning' of missions I would estimate CNR advantage over Golem to be roughly 10% or so. In reality both of them can tank missions without needing to warp out also.
Can't comment on others as I don't have good enough Amarr skills.
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zayanka
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Posted - 2008.01.22 20:47:00 -
[10]
TBH i have 2 characters one of them is caldary and the other one is gun based character (this is the only way to enjoy both worlds guns/missiles)
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Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights
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Posted - 2008.01.22 20:53:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Impolite Andevil on 22/01/2008 20:53:24 I fly a nightmare, nighthawk, and raven for lev 4s and usually fly with two friends in CNRs. The Nightmare tanks about the same as the CNR, with the caveat that the cap use from the lasers hurts. An extra midlsot helps deal with that, and I would also suggest that any Nightmare owner ought to be running semiconductor memory cells instead of CCCs. The Nightmare is extremely good vs. enemies without high EM resists and at range. Even against enemies with 60% EM resists I was dropping them 2x as fast as the CNR. Up close, though, it can't hit crap, and I have all gunnery support skills at 5. Maybe a tracking mod would help...
I have my Nightmare set up with Amarr Navy Tachyons and a Gist-B XL shield. It holds fine. Overall cost to outfit it is about equal to a CNR. The extra expense for the ship is offset by only having to buy 4 faction/officer guns.
In response to the above poster that states that a Golem is better than all of these options, I'd really like to know why he says that... The CNR and Nightmare both have better DPS unless you get Mauraders 5, in which case the Nightmare still has much higher DPS that the Golem. The Golem has a better tank, but the reality is that none of those three ships will be in any danger in a lev 4 mission.
A Paladin could be nice, but I like the tracking bonus on the Nightmare that the Paladin lacks.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.22 21:36:00 -
[12]
IF you run Amarr agents, the Nightmare will get you the best isk/time out of all possible ships, as long as you can afford to decline the odd Guristas or Angel mission. With two officer tracking enhancers and one SS tracking comp, it hits even up close enemies fairly well with beams, and it can even hit unwebbed frigs at 8K with pulses. That tracking bonus definitely makes the ship, and the lack of it breaks the Paladin for me.
Only real downside is that for me to run the ship conveniently (that means enough slots to fit AB and SeBo), it needs a Gist XL booster, which is another bil or three.
And as you already said yourself, the best of both worlds is the perfect solution, and that is what I actually do. Nightmare for main running, and CNR for Angels, Guristas and stuff. Soon to be replaced by the Golem, which while having slightly less dps seems to be a much more convenient ride (enough slots and fittings for AB and SeBo too). And the dps difference will be further mitigated by a torp damage implant, while for the CNR I currently fit a PG implant to mitigate my CPU issues (yes, because it allows me to fit a Co-Pro instead of a PDU).
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Helen
Eve Innovative Technologies
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Posted - 2008.01.23 00:00:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Helen on 23/01/2008 00:00:23 I've never had a issue hitting BS under 10km with my tachs on the Nightmare (no tracking mods). If its a no tank mission (UMP is one) then I go all out with tracking comps and the rest and then I get a damage mod of 29.3x and tracking is something like 0.44 or 0.044 (can't remember exact numbers).
As for tanking I've never had a issue but then it does depend on your fit I guess. Controlled bursts helps.
Top Tip - Don't eat yellow snow |
Kira Star
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Posted - 2008.01.23 00:13:00 -
[14]
Once again, thanks for all replies in this thread so far. As Leandro mentioned:
Originally by: Leandro Salazar And as you already said yourself, the best of both worlds is the perfect solution, and that is what I actually do. Nightmare for main running, and CNR for Angels, Guristas and stuff. Soon to be replaced by the Golem, which while having slightly less dps seems to be a much more convenient ride (enough slots and fittings for AB and SeBo too). And the dps difference will be further mitigated by a torp damage implant, while for the CNR I currently fit a PG implant to mitigate my CPU issues (yes, because it allows me to fit a Co-Pro instead of a PDU).
And there we have it, it seems that I need two skillsets ;). I have been reading all replies so far and come to my conclusion that I will aim towards the CNR first and work towards a Nightmare from there. I am happy that there isn't ONE ship to choose from in this game, it makes the game more fun and goal wise alot better :).
Thanks all!
Best regards, Kira
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Kadoes Khan
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Posted - 2008.01.23 03:48:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Kadoes Khan on 23/01/2008 03:52:42
Originally by: Leandro Salazar IF you run Amarr agents, the Nightmare will get you the best isk/time out of all possible ships, as long as you can afford to decline the odd Guristas or Angel mission. With two officer tracking enhancers and one SS tracking comp, it hits even up close enemies fairly well with beams, and it can even hit unwebbed frigs at 8K with pulses. That tracking bonus definitely makes the ship, and the lack of it breaks the Paladin for me.
Only real downside is that for me to run the ship conveniently (that means enough slots to fit AB and SeBo), it needs a Gist XL booster, which is another bil or three.
And as you already said yourself, the best of both worlds is the perfect solution, and that is what I actually do. Nightmare for main running, and CNR for Angels, Guristas and stuff. Soon to be replaced by the Golem, which while having slightly less dps seems to be a much more convenient ride (enough slots and fittings for AB and SeBo too). And the dps difference will be further mitigated by a torp damage implant, while for the CNR I currently fit a PG implant to mitigate my CPU issues (yes, because it allows me to fit a Co-Pro instead of a PDU).
Pretty much agree here, the nightmare against blood/sansha is just amazing once you skill your BS skill up to take advantage of the tracking bonus plus it has a very easy time fitting tachyons so it will burn through ships quite a bit faster than the CNR/Golem as long as you can still track and things that get in close can be dealt with by drones and some manual flying. Although I don't think requiring a Gist XL booster is that big a downside as if you are thinking about a CNR anyways you probably already have one or plan on getting one for the CNR so you can just toss it back and forth between the ships.
Quote: I would also suggest that any Nightmare owner ought to be running semiconductor memory cells instead of CCCs
Well, CCCs produced a better sustained tank than SMC's, whereas the SMC's produce a longer time till capout when running everything full blast(which never happens long when you have DPS as high as a nightmare) so not sure I really agree on that. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
Mastin Dragonfly
Absolutely No Retreat Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.01.23 18:17:00 -
[16]
I know it doesn't mean all that much since you're not gonna passive tank a battleship or something anyway but it annoys me anyway:
Navy Apoc shield hps: 9316 recharge: 2500
Machariel shield hps: 9735 recharge: 2500
Navy Mega shield hps: 9316 recharge: 2500
Nightmare shield hps: 9298 recharge: 2673
3 of the faction battleships that are (generally) armortanked have better basic shield stats than the Nightmare...
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Helen
Eve Innovative Technologies
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Posted - 2008.01.23 19:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly
3 of the faction battleships that are (generally) armortanked have better basic shield stats than the Nightmare...
I'm not bothered, its not a case of shield hp but resist and repair ability. Besides if they tweak that they might tweak out all that lovely PG/CPU its got spare.
Top Tip - Don't eat yellow snow |
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