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Request for clarification - Dear CCP...

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 13:26:00 - [1] Dear CCP, Kerion, Wrangler, Dev After reading this thread and reading so many comments from people it is a rather disturbing thought that CCP are still actively trying to increase their members-base by doing quite large publicity stunts (a.k.a Steam). Now from a business perspective this is a wonderful concept and will be great if you can pull it off, but from a player and infrastructure perspective this is absolutely hideous with the current state of things. My question is this:- Please can you tell us, the player base, what your future plans are for creating a much more stable infrastructure (server) in both the short and long term. We have seen the 'Need for speed' initiative which seems to have given a rather minor perceptual boost, but nothing more. The Trinity 2 Client i must admit is great - but the server lag is still cutting it short. Jita is still as horrendous as ever and nothing is being done about it in the players eyes. So i implore you CCP, give us a heads up, make us believe in your communication once again because quite frankly most people who understand this concept are rather worried about a large influx of players. Kind Regards ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Jakus Cemendur Caldari The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.23 13:34:00 - [2] Edited by: Jakus Cemendur on 23/01/2008 13:35:09 Useful link: Infiniband If you want the tl;dr version, they're investing in new technology that will basically turn the server cluster into a super computer and will allow the spreading of the load on a node to multiple servers instead of being stuck on 1. And it is being worked on at the moment and according to CCP will be in action sometime this year.
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 13:47:00 - [3] Edited by: Shamen on 23/01/2008 13:46:47 Originally by: Jakus Cemendur Edited by: Jakus Cemendur on 23/01/2008 13:35:09 Useful link: Infiniband If you want the tl;dr version, they're investing in new technology that will basically turn the server cluster into a super computer and will allow the spreading of the load on a node to multiple servers instead of being stuck on 1. And it is being worked on at the moment and according to CCP will be in action sometime this year. Thank you for this and i understand that Infiniband will help but my point being, CCP releases EvE on Steam in the very very near future, Infiniband isn't anywhere near ready - The influx of players will come before any infrastructure deployment as far as I'm aware (note: I'm not privied to all CCP internal messages) Just to give the general scope of this, Steam has an average of 13-15 million users. If just 1-2% of those users come to EvE thats an additional 260000 players (calculated from the 13m). For those who were around during the last player increase before the cluster upgrade you will remember continual server crashes, stuck characters, inflated downtimes and just a nightmare of a game. To me it seems as tho CCP's left foot(commercial) is going at a much faster pace than its right(infrastructure). There needs to be cohesion between the two, all i see is a mess unfortunately. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Grimm Myn Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.01.23 13:50:00 - [4] Confirmation that EvE will NOT require Steam to play The more capital CCP can use = hiring of specialists for infiniband, more hardware, more employees in general = faster process in general. It was a good opportunity for CCP and Valve to work together and both took the chance. Would you say no to the possibility of tapping into a large resource of new users? [404] Signature not found.
knifee Caldari Rage Academy oooh Shiny	Posted - 2008.01.23 13:54:00 - [5] Originally by: Shamen Just to give the general scope of this, Steam has an average of 13-15 million users. If just 1-2% of those users come to EvE thats an additional 260000 players (calculated from the 13m). i hope that steam is a success for CCP, but lets face it there was nothing stopping people from playing the game before this announcement and adding another source for the client d/load isn't going to guarantee any new players, let alone doubling the membership as people keep on saying. www.eve-dev.net - making a good thing better
Armoured C Gallente Globaltech Industries Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2008.01.23 13:54:00 - [6] Originally by: Grimm Myn Confirmation that EvE will NOT require Steam to play The more capital CCP can use = hiring of specialists for infiniband, more hardware, more employees in general = faster process in general. It was a good opportunity for CCP and Valve to work together and both took the chance. Would you say no to the possibility of tapping into a large resource of new users? i dont see what the problem with steam is anyway they make good games ...arnt we a good enough game to be on steam we solopwn all game out there for being the most unique and obviously the best aswell
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 13:56:00 - [7] Originally by: Grimm Myn Confirmation that EvE will NOT require Steam to play The more capital CCP can use = hiring of specialists for infiniband, more hardware, more employees in general = faster process in general. It was a good opportunity for CCP and Valve to work together and both took the chance. Would you say no to the possibility of tapping into a large resource of new users? No where have i stated that Steam will be needed to play eve, it will just join the group of games under the steam umbrella. My point is this:- The server at the moment is very close to reaching its overhead, now we have been in this situation before where the server could pucker up and kiss its overhead and if you see my previous statements you will see the repercussions of that. There were entire weeks where there would be an unscheduled reboot at least once per day, sometimes more than once. I understand your concept of 'Hey more players more money' but with the current player base CCP have more than enough revenue to bring in specialists for Infiniband. Dumbed down point, CCP are jumping into a pool before they can swim - again ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 13:59:00 - [8] Originally by: knifee Originally by: Shamen Just to give the general scope of this, Steam has an average of 13-15 million users. If just 1-2% of those users come to EvE thats an additional 260000 players (calculated from the 13m). i hope that steam is a success for CCP, but lets face it there was nothing stopping people from playing the game before this announcement and adding another source for the client d/load isn't going to guarantee any new players, let alone doubling the membership as people keep on saying. Eve isn't as 'well known' as people who play it perceive. Sure in the MMORPG realm EvE is a frequented name. In the FPS realm which is Steam homeground eve will be heard of little. Admittedly there are a few players who go between MMORPGs and FPS but surprisingly there are pure FPSers out there who haven't ventured into the realm of MMORPGS yet... Great commercial venture, dire infrastructure consequences. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:01:00 - [9] I just have one question for you, Shamen: Don't you think the people at CCP have already considered all these issues? ________________
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn I just have one question for you, Shamen: Don't you think the people at CCP have already considered all these issues? Possibly, and in all honesty i hope to dear god they have. But the detrimental point being, why release eve on steam before the server can handle any kind of influx of players? If they had thought about it why release eve on steam beforehand? ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion

MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:04:00 - [11] I have to agree... CCP can the servers take 100,000 people at once yet? be careful.
Jakus Cemendur Caldari The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:05:00 - [12] Originally by: Shamen Possibly, and in all honesty i hope to dear god they have. But the detrimental point being, why release eve on steam before the server can handle any kind of influx of players? If they had thought about it why release eve on steam beforehand? Money probably. More subscribers = more money = more money to invest in future development and in server upgrade.
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:10:00 - [13] Originally by: Jakus Cemendur Originally by: Shamen Possibly, and in all honesty i hope to dear god they have. But the detrimental point being, why release eve on steam before the server can handle any kind of influx of players? If they had thought about it why release eve on steam beforehand? Money probably. More subscribers = more money = more money to invest in future development and in server upgrade. But is also counter productive... The point is this - The life of a noob Hey great a new game for me to play, lets go try the trial Hey this game is spiffy, quite a large learning curve but that makes it more fun -pays for account- Ummm 'Dear Players please make sure your characters are out of harms way for an unscheduled server reboot' Hey why isn't the server up? Its been down for an hour now why is it still down Umm, my character is stuck, hello... can anyone help me... My guns, they wont active, my shield booster - ohhh no im dead i just lost my ship to lag... -Cancels subscription- Do you see the point? More money for a month possibly, fractionally more money overall, but what new player in their right mind will stay with a game that cant handle the server load? ______________________________________________ Shamen* Dark Angel Battalion
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:10:00 - [14] Originally by: Jakus Cemendur Originally by: Shamen Possibly, and in all honesty i hope to dear god they have. But the detrimental point being, why release eve on steam before the server can handle any kind of influx of players? If they had thought about it why release eve on steam beforehand? Money probably. More subscribers = more money = more money to invest in future development and in server upgrade. No sane company ever invests in advertising / distribution in order to gain funds to improve their service.
Theo Samaritan Gallente Pheonix Reborn	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:13:00 - [15] Speaking to the devs at fanfest, they said the infiniband server will hopefully be up before mid 2008. dont worry about it, they know what they are doing, k? -------------- Templars do not tank Jita so well without a steady supply of Cake.
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:17:00 - [16] Originally by: Theo Samaritan Speaking to the devs at fanfest, they said the infiniband server will hopefully be up before mid 2008. dont worry about it, they know what they are doing, k? It was initially slated for Feb'08, now its mid'08, if you have been here for quite some time you will understand my skepticism. Expect Infiniband in Q3 08 - Valve/Steam will be releasing their commercial venture with CCP in the very near future... go figure. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:42:00 - [17] Originally by: MotherMoon I have to agree... CCP can the servers take 100,000 people at once yet? be careful. If you go by the MIT article that was out last, the largest number I heard was 70,000. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:47:00 - [18] lag in eve is not that bad, it only gets bad in hubs like jita, and in large fleet fights, even if 10k players joined, as long as they did not all go to the same places the server would be ok IMO. the reason im n the allaince im in is becuase small scale pvp is back in town, only last night i had a very fun fight, with over 15 people in total, lag free, lots of fun, its just the grouping and ccps requirment to play in large groups that causes the issues.
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Xtreem lag in eve is not that bad, it only gets bad in hubs like jita, and in large fleet fights, even if 10k players joined, as long as they did not all go to the same places the server would be ok IMO. the reason im n the allaince im in is becuase small scale pvp is back in town, only last night i had a very fun fight, with over 15 people in total, lag free, lots of fun, its just the grouping and ccps requirment to play in large groups that causes the issues. Which is why CCP need to cater to its player base and not the other way around :) ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 16:58:00 - [20] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: MotherMoon I have to agree... CCP can the servers take 100,000 people at once yet? be careful. If you go by the MIT article that was out last, the largest number I heard was 70,000. Can you find this for us please? ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion

Kyra Felann Gallente Elite Storm Enterprises	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:00:00 - [21] Originally by: Armoured C i dont see what the problem with steam is anyway they make good games ...arnt we a good enough game to be on steam Steam doesn't make games any more than Wal-mart does.

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:01:00 - [22] I would suggest you navigate to this (from 18:20 onwards.) It is the recording of Hilmar's speech from Fanfest, detailing where we're heading in the coming months and years. Notably he comments on our burgeoning supercomputing initiatives with IBM and Microsoft, as well as changes to our network architecture to benefit from HPC technologies such as Infiniband, as you have already linked. Whilst it does date from last November, it is still our ongoing vision for both the short and long term. I don't doubt that as new information is available, it will be released to the player base, but at present there simply isn't anything more concrete than re-elaborating upon that which you have already discussed.

Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:05:00 - [23] Originally by: CCP Atropos I would suggest you navigate to this (from 18:20 onwards.) It is the recording of Hilmar's speech from Fanfest, detailing where we're heading in the coming months and years. Notably he comments on our burgeoning supercomputing initiatives with IBM and Microsoft, as well as changes to our network architecture to benefit from HPC technologies such as Infiniband, as you have already linked. Whilst it does date from last November, it is still our ongoing vision for both the short and long term. I don't doubt that as new information is available, it will be released to the player base, but at present there simply isn't anything more concrete than re-elaborating upon that which you have already discussed. So my conclusion that nothing will be done before the Steam-eve rollout is put into action causing another few months of pure hell for eve? ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:13:00 - [24] Pure hell for EVE? I don't find that many issues with server performance when I play. Additionally, the press release states that EVE is going to be available to download through Steam. This doesn't mean that the server is going to explode with new users overnight, so you don't have much to worry about in terms of a sudden drop in performance. We're constantly aiming to improve the server performance and we are working on doing just that. We can't trickle improvements in, one piece at a time, since this results in a continuous maintenance period for TQ, denying people the ability to play. As such, the performance of the server will stay as it is until such a time as we do roll out an update. It will happen, that I can guarantee you, and as a gesture of good faith, I give you the projected time of arrival as SoonÖ.

Shadow Joy	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:14:00 - [25] Originally by: Shamen So my conclusion that nothing will be done before the Steam-eve rollout is put into action causing another few months of pure hell for eve? Since when do pushers care about making junkies lives hell?
Gone'Postal Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:15:00 - [26] Originally by: Shamen So my conclusion that nothing will be done before the Steam-eve rollout is put into action causing another few months of pure hell for eve? Your thinking mirror's my own. CCP: Were like a clock upon a wall, Always moving but never going anywhere.
Nexus Kinnon Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:35:00 - [27] Do you people seriously just sit in Jita all day staring at the station background in 4-4 and whining on the forums? Nothing is perfect. However, I have had absolutely zero problems with lag when outside main hubs. (read: Jita)
phishstik Gallente North Face Force	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:42:00 - [28] Hmmm with all that computing power, how long until Tranquility becomes self aware.....
StickyFingerz Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:44:00 - [29] ill be blatantly honest, my main issue is the lack of avilible space not lag, space really is getting full in empire (and lets face it new users are going to be there), surely CCP have noticed this... i think it really is time for a reworking of the map, and some additional systems, or fixing of some of the agent hubs
Kyreax Neuronix Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:47:00 - [30] More player in Eve is a good idea, from both a business standpoint and development. This game is like a giant beta test....frankly it's fun to be involved. And honestly, if the servers are down for a few hours...go outside and play some football or something. If you don't have the patience to be in a game that's constantly evolving, Eve certainly isn't for you. Evolution has some hiccups. Larger player base = more CCP capital to spend on: a. beer (first priority!) b. Supercomputing servers that melt London c. more employees to make more content And its not like they're all going to log in and high-tail it to Jita right away....is it? --------------------------------------------------- It's a Templar, an Amarr Fighter used by Carriers.

ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:47:00 - [31] The Eve universe is getting way to small while the population just gets bigger I wouldnt mind some new and big regions soon tbh, both high sec, low sec and 0,0
Kyreax Neuronix Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:49:00 - [32] Originally by: StickyFingerz i think it really is time for a reworking of the map, and some additional systems, or fixing of some of the agent hubs I'd be all for a "shrinking" or empire space or a giant stretch of 0.0 in the middle of the empires so people actually had to go to 0.0 to get places... Start random "wormhole" missions so they get tossed to the far reaches of 0.0 during a routine level 1 mission...and they have to make it back thrrough big bad scary 0.0 --------------------------------------------------- It's a Templar, an Amarr Fighter used by Carriers.
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:52:00 - [33] Originally by: CCP Atropos Pure hell for EVE? I don't find that many issues with server performance when I play. Additionally, the press release states that EVE is going to be available to download through Steam. This doesn't mean that the server is going to explode with new users overnight, so you don't have much to worry about in terms of a sudden drop in performance. We're constantly aiming to improve the server performance and we are working on doing just that. We can't trickle improvements in, one piece at a time, since this results in a continuous maintenance period for TQ, denying people the ability to play. As such, the performance of the server will stay as it is until such a time as we do roll out an update. It will happen, that I can guarantee you, and as a gesture of good faith, I give you the projected time of arrival as SoonÖ. So can you explain to me what happens with my prior statistics, with 13-15million steam users. Lets for example say that 250000 of those are eve players already - being over presumptuous here. Thats now down to 14,750,000 Lets half it even and say 50% of those members wont look at the advert. So now we are down to 7,375,000 people who may look at the advert Lets say for arguments sake, that 1% of those people try eve in the first week - Thats 73750 new trial accounts in the first week - and I'm guessing from a business standpoint CCP will increase the amount of concurrent trial accounts allowed on to the server when this hits. So thats 73750 new users, lets say 50% like the game and activate their accounts - thats an additional 36875 players - Lets say 30% of those are European. That means an additional 11062 on at times between 17-19:00 Eve time. Lets say another 30% are American, thats an additional 11062 on at around 21:00 eve time increasing the server load exponentially. These statistics are taken from a very very low estimate, I'm being rather pessimistic here. If anything these statistics will be higher than my estimates. Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Do you people seriously just sit in Jita all day staring at the station background in 4-4 and whining on the forums? Nothing is perfect. However, I have had absolutely zero problems with lag when outside main hubs. (read: Jita) I very very rarely visit Jita or a main hub, i do however engage in fleet combat and travel regions within which fleet combat is occurring. Also you think that new players aren't going to visit trade hubs? See the problems? ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:55:00 - [34] Originally by: Kyreax More player in Eve is a good idea, from both a business standpoint and development. This game is like a giant beta test....frankly it's fun to be involved. And honestly, if the servers are down for a few hours...go outside and play some football or something. If you don't have the patience to be in a game that's constantly evolving, Eve certainly isn't for you. Evolution has some hiccups. Larger player base = more CCP capital to spend on: a. beer (first priority!) b. Supercomputing servers that melt London c. more employees to make more content And its not like they're all going to log in and high-tail it to Jita right away....is it? They provide a service - their priority in providing that service is to make sure that the servers are available for as much time as possible and that each customer gets a good experience. With the influx that is coming they will fail both of those priorities. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Darkstarr DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:59:00 - [35] Bottled Watter : CHECK Canned Foods : CHECK Toilet Paper : CHECK P0rn : ....damn ---FAST FACT--- Exxon Mobil, the U.S.'s largest oil firm, reported annual earnings last year of $36.1 Billion, or $1146 a second, a record for any U.S. corp.
Shimmera M. Corp Academy M. PIRE	Posted - 2008.01.23 18:18:00 - [36] Originally by: Shamen So can you explain to me what happens with my prior statistics, with 13-15million steam users. Lets for example say that 250000 of those are eve players already - being over presumptuous here. Thats now down to 14,750,000 Lets half it even and say 50% of those members wont look at the advert. So now we are down to 7,375,000 people who may look at the advert Lets say for arguments sake, that 1% of those people try eve in the first week - Thats 73750 new trial accounts in the first week - and I'm guessing from a business standpoint CCP will increase the amount of concurrent trial accounts allowed on to the server when this hits. So thats 73750 new users, lets say 50% like the game and activate their accounts - thats an additional 36875 players - Lets say 30% of those are European. That means an additional 11062 on at times between 17-19:00 Eve time. Lets say another 30% are American, thats an additional 11062 on at around 21:00 eve time increasing the server load exponentially. These statistics are taken from a very very low estimate, I'm being rather pessimistic here. If anything these statistics will be higher than my estimates. I very very rarely visit Jita or a main hub, i do however engage in fleet combat and travel regions within which fleet combat is occurring. Also you think that new players aren't going to visit trade hubs? See the problems? You are over-reacting. As was stated before, adding EVE to Steam functions as advertising. All of these potential users have had the chance to encounter and try EVE already. Your statistics are misleading. You have chosen 1-2% of (total Steam users) because it seems like a reasonably small amount, when in actuality, you fail to properly cite these figures, fail to factor in Steam users that already play EVE, and lastly fail to realize the fact that EVE has over 200,000 active subs and peaks at around 35,000 players on weekends, and can support nearly double that amount. Less panic, more logic.
Surreptitious Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 18:20:00 - [37] Originally by: CCP Atropos Pure hell for EVE? I don't find that many issues with server performance when I play. Additionally, the press release states that EVE is going to be available to download through Steam. This doesn't mean that the server is going to explode with new users overnight, so you don't have much to worry about in terms of a sudden drop in performance. We're constantly aiming to improve the server performance and we are working on doing just that. We can't trickle improvements in, one piece at a time, since this results in a continuous maintenance period for TQ, denying people the ability to play. As such, the performance of the server will stay as it is until such a time as we do roll out an update. It will happen, that I can guarantee you, and as a gesture of good faith, I give you the projected time of arrival as SoonÖ. Supposedly the servers are in London but there has to be some kind of major-ass connection coming from Iceland considering thats where ALL the work is done. So while your not sitting next to the server your a hell of alot closer to an uber pipe than the other 99.9% of people playing(IE those not employed by CCP). So yes I believe the connection performs much better for you than the rest, but dont be so ignorant as to assume becuase it runs fine for you it is fine for the rest. And you argue that there wont be an explosion of players overnight but im not sure you have thought that thru either. Steam is a free download, offering a free download of a game that will be free for the first 14 days. You know a truckload of people will sign-in becuase there is nothign to lose. We all know your upgrading the server but I think everyones beef is that after 4+ years of those claims you guys never seem to be able to catch up. The population grows faster than you can improve things. Considering the track record you should almost be afraid to reply. You know its just going to be picked to pieces. But congratulations. I do feel much better after your reply and as always a CCP employee dazzles us with their incredible insight. After all, the game runs fine for you right,,,, Syrup
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 18:21:00 - [38] Originally by: Shimmera Originally by: Shamen So can you explain to me what happens with my prior statistics, with 13-15million steam users. Lets for example say that 250000 of those are eve players already - being over presumptuous here. Thats now down to 14,750,000 Lets half it even and say 50% of those members wont look at the advert. So now we are down to 7,375,000 people who may look at the advert Lets say for arguments sake, that 1% of those people try eve in the first week - Thats 73750 new trial accounts in the first week - and I'm guessing from a business standpoint CCP will increase the amount of concurrent trial accounts allowed on to the server when this hits. So thats 73750 new users, lets say 50% like the game and activate their accounts - thats an additional 36875 players - Lets say 30% of those are European. That means an additional 11062 on at times between 17-19:00 Eve time. Lets say another 30% are American, thats an additional 11062 on at around 21:00 eve time increasing the server load exponentially. These statistics are taken from a very very low estimate, I'm being rather pessimistic here. If anything these statistics will be higher than my estimates. I very very rarely visit Jita or a main hub, i do however engage in fleet combat and travel regions within which fleet combat is occurring. Also you think that new players aren't going to visit trade hubs? See the problems? You are over-reacting. As was stated before, adding EVE to Steam functions as advertising. All of these potential users have had the chance to encounter and try EVE already. Your statistics are misleading. You have chosen 1-2% of (total Steam users) because it seems like a reasonably small amount, when in actuality, you fail to properly cite these figures, fail to factor in Steam users that already play EVE, and lastly fail to realize the fact that EVE has over 200,000 active subs and peaks at around 35,000 players on weekends, and can support nearly double that amount. Less panic, more logic. Did you read my post? I took the the entire eve community amount out of the original figure, then i halved it. Its not a 1-2% of total steam users at all. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Kurtis Lowe	Posted - 2008.01.23 18:21:00 - [39] Originally by: MotherMoon I have to agree... CCP can the servers take 100,000 people at once yet? be careful. NO WAY. This is what is being advertised too, 100,000 on one server. PLEASE! oh PLEASE! Let's be honest with ourselves here CCP, even with top notch hardware running the eve client, most 50v50 or larger fleet battles end up being a slide show. And don't even get me started about eve-premium graphics thrown into that mix, omg. Either way tho it SOUNDS great on PAPER doesn't it ? There gonna be some MAD newbs soon, i fear for the forums' safety.
Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr I-Omniscient-I	Posted - 2008.01.23 18:22:00 - [40] Edited by: Selene Le''Cotiere on 23/01/2008 18:23:04 Originally by: Kyreax And its not like they're all going to log in and high-tail it to Jita right away....is it? What do kids do when you tell them not to touch or do something? Go ahead, tell them not to pee on the fense (go to Jita)... They'll pee on the fence. *** "Some would call me a Demon. Others, a Vampire. But if the truth be told, I'm a child of the moon and a Goddess among men." Free pint of blood for the Dev who agrees


CCP Atropos	Posted - 2008.01.23 18:32:00 - [41] Originally by: Shamen My question is this:- Please can you tell us, the player base, what your future plans are for creating a much more stable infrastructure (server) in both the short and long term. Despite what you stated in the official Steam news-post thread, I have attempted to answer your question. I've given you unarguable information from the CEO of the company, about the areas we are currently researching in cohort with large technological powerhouses such as IBM and Microsoft, and where we are heading with the server design for EVE, in addition to restating out promise that we will reduce the appearance of lag within the game universe. Without being part of the teams currently working on these projects I can't point to something and give you real, hard facts about the performance of the client and server in upcoming releases, but I can tell you from working with the client benchmarking suites we use internally, the client itself is, in general, preforming better with Trinity than it was prior to it's release. The Need for Speed initiative you reference is still ongoing, and it's one of our main goals; to reduce the strain ships and modules place upon the game and the universe as a whole. This can be seen with some of the suggestions that have been discussed regarding such things as drone lag on Carriers and Motherships, all the way through to accessing corporate hangar arrays and POS sieges. Unfortunately there is no one fix that will suddenly make EVE 'perfect' and lag free. However we are aiming to mitigate the effects of running a multi user environment across such a volatile medium as the Internet. It will never be completed, since it's an ongoing battle to improve technology and software that is always bested by the player base; every time you increase the number of people that can fight concurrently, the groups taking part draw more people into their conflicts, whether it's PVE or PVP. People will always want 'bigger and better' and even with HPC technologies this will result in 1000 v 1000 people fights. As such, I can only do what I have done, which is to restate our promise to constantly fight the lag monster, and over time to deliver an ever improving and consistently playable game environment.

Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 18:36:00 - [42] Originally by: CCP Atropos Originally by: Shamen My question is this:- Please can you tell us, the player base, what your future plans are for creating a much more stable infrastructure (server) in both the short and long term. Despite what you stated in the official Steam news-post thread, I have attempted to answer your question. I've given you unarguable information from the CEO of the company, about the areas we are currently researching in cohort with large technological powerhouses such as IBM and Microsoft, and where we are heading with the server design for EVE, in addition to restating out promise that we will reduce the appearance of lag within the game universe. Without being part of the teams currently working on these projects I can't point to something and give you real, hard facts about the performance of the client and server in upcoming releases, but I can tell you from working with the client benchmarking suites we use internally, the client itself is, in general, preforming better with Trinity than it was prior to it's release. The Need for Speed initiative you reference is still ongoing, and it's one of our main goals; to reduce the strain ships and modules place upon the game and the universe as a whole. This can be seen with some of the suggestions that have been discussed regarding such things as drone lag on Carriers and Motherships, all the way through to accessing corporate hangar arrays and POS sieges. Unfortunately there is no one fix that will suddenly make EVE 'perfect' and lag free. However we are aiming to mitigate the effects of running a multi user environment across such a volatile medium as the Internet. It will never be completed, since it's an ongoing battle to improve technology and software that is always bested by the player base; every time you increase the number of people that can fight concurrently, the groups taking part draw more people into their conflicts, whether it's PVE or PVP. People will always want 'bigger and better' and even with HPC technologies this will result in 1000 v 1000 people fights. As such, I can only do what I have done, which is to restate our promise to constantly fight the lag monster, and over time to deliver an ever improving and consistently playable game environment. I am sorry CCP Atropos if you took offense from my post in the Steam thread made by Wrangler, that wasn't my intention. Thank you for giving me an honest reply to the original question but the question has somewhat morphed since i wrote the original post. The question is now what does CCP intend to do to stop eve returning to the RMR stage where there were reboots everyday and lag even when there wasn't fleet battles going on due to the overhead being reached with server capacity. Can we get some statistics on actual overheads with the current server and some assurances that CCP will not allow things to degenerate into the mess that RMR was please? Once again I'm sorry if you got offended by my post in the other thread - Thank you for taking time to reply to me. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Agent Li Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.01.23 18:39:00 - [43] It's noticeably faster for me over the past year, and I remember severe lag problems that I don't experience anymore. That's not to say that Jita is lag free, but it does hold twice as many people as it used to... ------------------ Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire.
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 18:40:00 - [44] Originally by: Agent Li It's noticeably faster for me over the past year, and I remember severe lag problems that I don't experience anymore. That's not to say that Jita is lag free, but it does hold twice as many people as it used to... This is due to server upgrades and an increase in initiatives by CCP to speed things up, my problem is now that CCP are having quite a large advertising campaign with Steam, what happens when the overheads are reached again and it degenerates back into RMR style eve. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2008.01.23 18:41:00 - [45] Originally by: Surreptitious Supposedly the servers are in London but there has to be some kind of major-ass connection coming from Iceland considering thats where ALL the work is done. So while your not sitting next to the server your a hell of alot closer to an uber pipe than the other 99.9% of people playing(IE those not employed by CCP). So yes I believe the connection performs much better for you than the rest, but dont be so ignorant as to assume becuase it runs fine for you it is fine for the rest. And you argue that there wont be an explosion of players overnight but im not sure you have thought that thru either. Steam is a free download, offering a free download of a game that will be free for the first 14 days. You know a truckload of people will sign-in becuase there is nothign to lose. We all know your upgrading the server but I think everyones beef is that after 4+ years of those claims you guys never seem to be able to catch up. The population grows faster than you can improve things. Considering the track record you should almost be afraid to reply. You know its just going to be picked to pieces. But congratulations. I do feel much better after your reply and as always a CCP employee dazzles us with their incredible insight. After all, the game runs fine for you right,,,, Syrup All your points are quite valid; I do play on the work connection, but that doesn't mean I'm sat next to a 'phat pipe'. The line out of the building may be fast, but I still have to use the same fibre connection to the UK as the rest of Iceland. Whilst the usage on the pipe may be a lot less than say, the ones going from North America to London, we still feel the drop in bandwidth when everyone at home fires up their evening Internet sessions. EVE has always been a free download, but with the release on Steam it now has a much larger potential market. I won't pretend to know for sure that we won't receive a massive influx of players overnight, but until it happens neither one of us is right, and we're just discussing possibilities. We have been saying for 4+ years that we are upgrading the servers, and I think it's been proven to be consistently improving. I'm sure there are plenty of veteran players who will remember the days when jump in points were camped with cargo containers to lag out opponents, with only 10 people on grid. Or when a 'large' gang consisted of 5 to 10 people. As the player base has grown, so has the server, hand in hand with the maximum number of people that can be comfortably accommodated in a small skirmish.

Ex0101 Gallente Malicious Intentions The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.23 18:42:00 - [46] Edited by: Ex0101 on 23/01/2008 18:42:57 Originally by: CCP Atropos words I dont think you can be any clearer than you have been, both your answers in this thread have been clear and realistic, not empty statements and speculations, thanks tbh. Some people are just never happy. --
Dominus Aliquem	Posted - 2008.01.23 18:45:00 - [47] first i have to say i think over all the lag wont be felt thru the whole server or servers nodes will be affected first along with the connection bandwidth during high graphics fleet battles missions you will be affectred jita is a testiment to ccp is not close to being ready...first thing that will be affected is bandwidth look at 77 thousand connection add on packet headers the query and ping of connections ccp really needs to get a better backbone first...they also need to work on there internal network.. a fiber optics network with several oc92 or oc192 connections they need to focus 10 years from now hardware wise and get the best they can servers they need to distribute every system over 2 or 3 servers and allow for other servers to pull up on the slack all in all ccp can do things they choose not to honestly they need to rebuild there entire infrastructure from the ground up hardware wise and then test eve on it with like 400,000 accounts and do several fleet battles at over pruportioned size and upgrade till it has no lag then do whatever it takes to get as many ppl to join thanks dominus periculum
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 18:47:00 - [48] Originally by: CCP Atropos Originally by: Surreptitious Supposedly the servers are in London but there has to be some kind of major-ass connection coming from Iceland considering thats where ALL the work is done. So while your not sitting next to the server your a hell of alot closer to an uber pipe than the other 99.9% of people playing(IE those not employed by CCP). So yes I believe the connection performs much better for you than the rest, but dont be so ignorant as to assume becuase it runs fine for you it is fine for the rest. And you argue that there wont be an explosion of players overnight but im not sure you have thought that thru either. Steam is a free download, offering a free download of a game that will be free for the first 14 days. You know a truckload of people will sign-in becuase there is nothign to lose. We all know your upgrading the server but I think everyones beef is that after 4+ years of those claims you guys never seem to be able to catch up. The population grows faster than you can improve things. Considering the track record you should almost be afraid to reply. You know its just going to be picked to pieces. But congratulations. I do feel much better after your reply and as always a CCP employee dazzles us with their incredible insight. After all, the game runs fine for you right,,,, Syrup All your points are quite valid; I do play on the work connection, but that doesn't mean I'm sat next to a 'phat pipe'. The line out of the building may be fast, but I still have to use the same fibre connection to the UK as the rest of Iceland. Whilst the usage on the pipe may be a lot less than say, the ones going from North America to London, we still feel the drop in bandwidth when everyone at home fires up their evening Internet sessions. EVE has always been a free download, but with the release on Steam it now has a much larger potential market. I won't pretend to know for sure that we won't receive a massive influx of players overnight, but until it happens neither one of us is right, and we're just discussing possibilities. We have been saying for 4+ years that we are upgrading the servers, and I think it's been proven to be consistently improving. I'm sure there are plenty of veteran players who will remember the days when jump in points were camped with cargo containers to lag out opponents, with only 10 people on grid. Or when a 'large' gang consisted of 5 to 10 people. As the player base has grown, so has the server, hand in hand with the maximum number of people that can be comfortably accommodated in a small skirmish. I have been playing for 4 years now and i absolutely agree with you. The server has improved - From the times when mines were used to lag, to cargo containers. But i do remember the times when battles of 10v10 were unplayable also since the overhead had been reached and extended downtimes were a daily occurance and the DB used to fail over on a daily basis also. I just don't want to see this happen again and with this huge advertisement I'm rather pessimistic it wont happen again due to infiniband being so far out. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2008.01.23 18:48:00 - [49] Originally by: Shamen I am sorry CCP Atropos if you took offense from my post in the Steam thread made by Wrangler, that wasn't my intention. Thank you for giving me an honest reply to the original question but the question has somewhat morphed since i wrote the original post. The question is now what does CCP intend to do to stop eve returning to the RMR stage where there were reboots everyday and lag even when there wasn't fleet battles going on due to the overhead being reached with server capacity. Can we get some statistics on actual overheads with the current server and some assurances that CCP will not allow things to degenerate into the mess that RMR was please? Once again I'm sorry if you got offended by my post in the other thread - Thank you for taking time to reply to me. -edit- additionally i think people have learned that bigger isn't always better and large power blocks are slowly dying out which is a good thing for the future of eve stability wise. I took no offence from your statement in the other thread, I simply wanted to clarify that I thought I had answered your question already. As for what we're doing to accomplish to keep server overhead as low as possible, our Operations team is constantly monitoring the state of TQ. I don't have any statistics to give you on the state of the cluster, but I can assure you we will do everything we can to avoid a return to the worst of the days of the disconnects. I'll see if I can poke someone to post some details of current server performance though

Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 18:49:00 - [50] Originally by: CCP Atropos Originally by: Shamen I am sorry CCP Atropos if you took offense from my post in the Steam thread made by Wrangler, that wasn't my intention. Thank you for giving me an honest reply to the original question but the question has somewhat morphed since i wrote the original post. The question is now what does CCP intend to do to stop eve returning to the RMR stage where there were reboots everyday and lag even when there wasn't fleet battles going on due to the overhead being reached with server capacity. Can we get some statistics on actual overheads with the current server and some assurances that CCP will not allow things to degenerate into the mess that RMR was please? Once again I'm sorry if you got offended by my post in the other thread - Thank you for taking time to reply to me. -edit- additionally i think people have learned that bigger isn't always better and large power blocks are slowly dying out which is a good thing for the future of eve stability wise. I took no offence from your statement in the other thread, I simply wanted to clarify that I thought I had answered your question already. As for what we're doing to accomplish to keep server overhead as low as possible, our Operations team is constantly monitoring the state of TQ. I don't have any statistics to give you on the state of the cluster, but I can assure you we will do everything we can to avoid a return to the worst of the days of the disconnects. I'll see if I can poke someone to post some details of current server performance though Thank you, that would be hugely appreciated. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion

Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2008.01.23 18:57:00 - [51] I think that they know they may get an influx of players from advertising the game to the Steam userbase, but just how big this influx will be is hard to predict. So they won't splurge on pre-upgrading. They'll probably buy some hardware so that they have reserves just in case, and if it happens that they suddenly shoot to 10 million users, we'll have to suffer a few weeks as they buy hardware with next day delivery and install it asap. But I can tell you that they won't pre-buy hardware for 10 million people before the 10 million are already paying subscribers. You want them to install whatever spare servers they have right now so you can benefit from a few days of less lag, but nobody eats their emergency ratios without an emergency.
Lord Saradomin Gallente Asshats and Alcoholics Minuit.	Posted - 2008.01.23 19:01:00 - [52] Originally by: Shamen Silly words What's this got to do with you anyways? With the time you spend on the forums by the looks of it itÆs not going to affect you To be honest and an attempt at being serious if your lagging out it's because youÆre in a ridiculous fleet of over 250, seriously what's the point? Skills and such are pretty much irrelevant in those fights and there is no fun at the end of the day! Oh wow IÆm on a kill mail with 50 other guysà.whoop-de-sodding-do oh of course you could be in Jita I guess but that really is your own stupid fault! CCP have a server which holds 30k plus regularly I think thatÆs bloody awesome and fair play to them, IÆm looking forward to pew pewing and getting revenge on the CS kids! Good move CCP! ******************************************
Pennwisedom	Posted - 2008.01.23 19:10:00 - [53] I finally got back to this thread, and as I see it exploded. Here was the quote from the article where 70K was mentioned: "Growing user demands have placed increasing pressure on the company's hardware. In 2004, EVE Online switched to solid-state disks in order to avoid the delays introduced by moving mechanical parts in traditional hard drives. In 2006, the company upgraded to 64-bit computing to achieve higher-density storage. CCP Games is now moving its clusters over to IBM blade servers, a system of servers on cards that allows for greater storage density, power efficiency, and communication between servers. Petursson says that he hopes the company's new supercomputing clusters will add enough capacity for 70,000 concurrent users." So apparently I was half right. And the link to the article is right here.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.23 19:11:00 - [54] ^Crap, that was me. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 21:38:00 - [55] Originally by: Pennwisedom I finally got back to this thread, and as I see it exploded. Here was the quote from the article where 70K was mentioned: "Growing user demands have placed increasing pressure on the company's hardware. In 2004, EVE Online switched to solid-state disks in order to avoid the delays introduced by moving mechanical parts in traditional hard drives. In 2006, the company upgraded to 64-bit computing to achieve higher-density storage. CCP Games is now moving its clusters over to IBM blade servers, a system of servers on cards that allows for greater storage density, power efficiency, and communication between servers. Petursson says that he hopes the company's new supercomputing clusters will add enough capacity for 70,000 concurrent users." So apparently I was half right. And the link to the article is right here. Thank you. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Kaar Tath	Posted - 2008.01.23 22:08:00 - [56] If CCP ran the stock exchange you'd get daily updates of stock prices (if not weekly) from the database, not by the millisecond which the stock markets do, with billions of users - OK you got to spend to do it but ????? - clients comps run graphics etc on EVE al they are running is huge database which could do better
San Rintu Asshats and Alcoholics Minuit.	Posted - 2008.01.24 02:56:00 - [57] Speaking merely by induction. The stock exchange is surely only querying a database and also not supporting the load of of HDR front end UI. (Unless that those stock brokers are breaking out to some serious DX10 Techno visualistaions whilst they crunch numbers...) Compare Eve to any other online game. I've worked at one which had issues when more than 1000 were in a server, in fact it was so lagged out we used to have to log in to apologise to the players. In terms of a technical marvel, few people seem to realise the sheer monolothic size of Eve in comparison to it's competitors. It is a marvel that 40k of us can get on tranquility and 90% of us have a really decent playing experience. I'm sure if you went around in any other online MMO in a bubble of 250 players the server would decide that you lot are no longer it's best friend. I think people need to learn to show Eve the respect it is due as the current pinnacle of massively multiplayer online play. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Chasseur Aveugle	Posted - 2008.01.24 05:07:00 - [58] Originally by: Shimmera Originally by: Shamen So can you explain to me what happens with my prior statistics, with 13-15million steam users. Lets for example say that 250000 of those are eve players already - being over presumptuous here. Thats now down to 14,750,000 Lets half it even and say 50% of those members wont look at the advert. So now we are down to 7,375,000 people who may look at the advert Lets say for arguments sake, that 1% of those people try eve in the first week - Thats 73750 new trial accounts in the first week - and I'm guessing from a business standpoint CCP will increase the amount of concurrent trial accounts allowed on to the server when this hits. So thats 73750 new users, lets say 50% like the game and activate their accounts - thats an additional 36875 players - Lets say 30% of those are European. That means an additional 11062 on at times between 17-19:00 Eve time. Lets say another 30% are American, thats an additional 11062 on at around 21:00 eve time increasing the server load exponentially. These statistics are taken from a very very low estimate, I'm being rather pessimistic here. If anything these statistics will be higher than my estimates. I very very rarely visit Jita or a main hub, i do however engage in fleet combat and travel regions within which fleet combat is occurring. Also you think that new players aren't going to visit trade hubs? See the problems? You are over-reacting. As was stated before, adding EVE to Steam functions as advertising. All of these potential users have had the chance to encounter and try EVE already. Your statistics are misleading. You have chosen 1-2% of (total Steam users) because it seems like a reasonably small amount, when in actuality, you fail to properly cite these figures, fail to factor in Steam users that already play EVE, and lastly fail to realize the fact that EVE has over 200,000 active subs and peaks at around 35,000 players on weekends, and can support nearly double that amount. Less panic, more logic. Ok, it peaks at 40k and when it does its not exactly stable for everyone so Im not sure where you get the idea that it can support 70k on at one time. But all in all it should be good for EvE to get some fresh blood and I doubt there will be that many players, CCP already offers free trials and the ability to download the game online so just the advert of "EvE coming soon" should get most of the interested players looking at EVE and if they are interested at all they can start a trial.
Beyond Horizon Caldari Solar Dragons Red Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.24 05:30:00 - [59] Originally by: CCP Atropos Pure hell for EVE? I don't find that many issues with server performance when I play. I've heard Jove space is pretty nice this time of year. Try 200x200 fight systems - BH
MrBadidea	Posted - 2008.01.24 05:45:00 - [60] Looks like I'll finally get Capital Ships 5 trained then. --- MrBadidea's ePeen strikes YOUR EGO Wrecking for EMOCIDE

Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.24 08:01:00 - [61] Originally by: knifee Originally by: Shamen Just to give the general scope of this, Steam has an average of 13-15 million users. If just 1-2% of those users come to EvE thats an additional 260000 players (calculated from the 13m). i hope that steam is a success for CCP, but lets face it there was nothing stopping people from playing the game before this announcement and adding another source for the client d/load isn't going to guarantee any new players, let alone doubling the membership as people keep on saying. I agree. I think that the OP is exagerating the size of the influx and the problems he thinks it will bring. I've been playing Eve for nearly four years and I can't remember any time that it suffered a prolonged period like he describes. There have been half a dozen isolated 'bad server' days and the week or two of instability resulting from the POS bug but that's all. I see no reason to panic. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Kalindra naskan Amarr PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2008.01.24 08:10:00 - [62] Originally by: San Rintu Speaking merely by induction. The stock exchange is surely only querying a database and also not supporting the load of of HDR front end UI. (Unless that those stock brokers are breaking out to some serious DX10 Techno visualistaions whilst they crunch numbers...) Compare Eve to any other online game. I've worked at one which had issues when more than 1000 were in a server, in fact it was so lagged out we used to have to log in to apologise to the players. In terms of a technical marvel, few people seem to realise the sheer monolothic size of Eve in comparison to it's competitors. It is a marvel that 40k of us can get on tranquility and 90% of us have a really decent playing experience. I'm sure if you went around in any other online MMO in a bubble of 250 players the server would decide that you lot are no longer it's best friend. I think people need to learn to show Eve the respect it is due as the current pinnacle of massively multiplayer online play. Can't agree more with this. I actually play the game who's name shalt not be mentioned and in an area known as 'AV', up to 80 people play in the same area. Very often in the past week I've experienced up to 3 second delays in my actions and in that type of gameplay it's not very playable. --- This sig is rated "N" for Nonexistant It's nonexistent btw - Cortes Meh, same thing
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.24 08:11:00 - [63] Edited by: Andrue on 24/01/2008 08:16:08 Originally by: Surreptitious Supposedly the servers are in London There's no 'supposedly' about it. It's easy enough to prove with a trace route. Quote: but there has to be some kind of major-ass connection coming from Iceland considering thats where ALL the work is done. No there doesn't. I mean there probably is a large connection given that London is one of the world hubs but it doesn't have to be major. It has to be big enough to provide a terminal-style connection for the GMs and Devs with a bit extra to allow patches to be pushed. Quote: So while your not sitting next to the server your a hell of alot closer to an uber pipe than the other 99.9% of people playing(IE those not employed by CCP). So yes I believe the connection performs much better for you than the rest, Distance is not the major issue. Networks-especially the Internet-are more complicated than that. The primary factor is usually the end-users ISP. Quote: but dont be so ignorant as to assume becuase it runs fine for you it is fine for the rest. Well you do seem to be an expert on ignorance. Quote: And you argue that there wont be an explosion of players overnight but im not sure you have thought that thru either. Steam is a free download, offering a free download of a game that will be free for the first 14 days. You know a truckload of people will sign-in becuase there is nothign to lose. There is a quota limit on the number of trial accounts that can be logged in. I forget what it is but I think the servers only allow a couple of thousand at a time. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Terminus adacai Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.24 08:47:00 - [64] Originally by: knifee Originally by: Shamen Just to give the general scope of this, Steam has an average of 13-15 million users. If just 1-2% of those users come to EvE thats an additional 260000 players (calculated from the 13m). i hope that steam is a success for CCP, but lets face it there was nothing stopping people from playing the game before this announcement and adding another source for the client d/load isn't going to guarantee any new players, let alone doubling the membership as people keep on saying. Steam has millions of players.... Trust me, this move will generate many new accounts. This fact is good for the game, if CCP is ready for the influx. My only fear is that the sole server we play on is inundated to the point that game play is lagged beyond tolerable. If CCP has not anticipated this and made arrangements, it may go down as the worst decision ever made by the Dev team. As pointed out already by another poster, Steam has millions of player base. If only 1% join the trial, the server is doomed as we know it. Has the influx of new players and the drain on resources been addressed by Devs in any other threads yet? If so, please link it here... Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance.
Neo Triton Amarr Unamed Mofos	Posted - 2008.01.24 09:52:00 - [65] if the problem is calculation all the processes for read-outs (i.e sending the results to the user) Why dont you give the user the option to limit the outputs they need? IF you've ever played COD4 (bare with me here) then a sort of removing the HUD, but u gett better damage. Similiary in this you could remove some of the outputs here to give better performance. So a user can decide to go to say a setting of 'Basics' which removes the user bar on left, removes all the colour on the screen, or whatever it is that isnt specificaly needed. I dont know all thje processes that are used for displaying a fight, but if you were to remove these. Then say a 150 vs 150man fleet, and 200 people do this, then thats 200 less of the processes needed. Nt
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.24 10:07:00 - [66] Edited by: Lazuran on 24/01/2008 10:07:35 Originally by: Terminus adacai If CCP has not anticipated this and made arrangements, it may go down as the worst decision ever made by the Dev team. [...] Not even I believe that the Dev team would make such a decision. ;-) I expect 2 positive consequences from the Steam thing: - the pressure on CCP to fix the lag issues will increase dramatically - even the most ignorant marketing dudes at CCP will realize that generating new users isn't the problem and never was, but delivering what they promise (fleet battles, good service) in order to keep them, is.
Grimm Myn Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.01.24 10:26:00 - [67] I love all these Apocalypse Forseers about how the whole server will crash and pulling facts out their thumbs and playing CCP CEO for a day. Can you prove that even 0.5% of the Steam users will try the Trial? Nope Can you prove that 70000 users is the maximum Tranquility can handle? Nope Can you prove that all the "new" users will jump on the server at the same day, hour and second? Heh. CCP are a company which have been established a while ago, EvE is running fine and has been active for 4 years now. I think they know what they are doing. Oh and just for the fun of it. They dont HAVE to tell you anything unless you are a stakeholder. I say be happy with every piece of info recieved from Devs. [404] Signature not found.
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.24 10:36:00 - [68] Originally by: Grimm Myn I love all these Apocalypse Forseers about how the whole server will crash and pulling facts out their thumbs and playing CCP CEO for a day. Can you prove that even 0.5% of the Steam users will try the Trial? Nope Can you prove that 70000 users is the maximum Tranquility can handle? Nope Can you prove that all the "new" users will jump on the server at the same day, hour and second? Heh. Most of the time when people counter allegations with "you can't prove it!", they turn out to be true. ;-) Quote: CCP are a company which have been established a while ago, EvE is running fine and has been active for 4 years now. I think they know what they are doing. Yup, there is no lag in EVE, players never complain about anything at all and 1000v1000 fleet battles work perfectly all the time. Also, there have never been any Dev posts about lag, bugs, scaling issues, Infiniband etc. and thus it's safe to say that nothing has to be done to accomodate a few 10.000 more users. After all, TQ has never experienced any problems when new concurrent user records were surpassed by 1000-2000. Quote: Oh and just for the fun of it. They dont HAVE to tell you anything unless you are a stakeholder. I say be happy with every piece of info recieved from Devs. Yup, of course keeping the stakeholders happy is more important than keeping the users happy. It's not like the well-being of the former depends on the well-being of the latter.
Yohanes Flame Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.24 11:26:00 - [69] Edited by: Yohanes Flame on 24/01/2008 11:26:50 /sigh Lag ya we all know its bad and kinda the nature of the beast for MMO's Money we all know it is what makes the world goes round so new members are always gonna be the primary goal It is the little things that worry me the most. Players don't even realize are bugs anymore because they have been around so long that they avoid the bug without thinking. a) how many times do you click the jump button more than once when you approach a gate under completely solo and normal circumstances? b)how often do you "select all, repackage, stack all, sort by " c)how many times do you press shortcut keys multiple times to accomplish one thing? d)how often do you cuss out loud for accidentally clicking the wrong item on the market for fear of the load time? e)how do you abort a lock? f)how many times a play session do you have to open you wallet to get an accurate amount vice the mouse over amount? g)how many hours in your eve career have you waited at gates for your gang to reorganize even if you weren't the one being reorganized? It isnt that all of these are bugs or that any of them are important or critical or wtvr but it is the fact that they have been here forever and a day. Simple small tiny little problems that inhibit game play every minute of every day and create lots of micro time and processing sinks. This is not an attempt to troll or to derail the OP but an example of the direction and structuring of priorities in the game, money will always be first i get that but... i dunno...ambulation??? who even thought that was something that belongs in a huge scale universe size game i don't know, but it just seems that CCP is on a different page sometimes and that is were the OP gets the frustration i think. It is that CCP puts out these huge concepts that are oo and ahh when I still have to click the jump gate twice half the time. ____________________________ One Thead to rule them all - Boot.ini pre-patch thread
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.24 11:58:00 - [70] I find it quite difficult to understand why people cant see the issues this may cause... I'm quite saddened by the fact that people are saying 'Well other games cant handle 1000 players let alone 40,000 so why complain' EvE is our game, EvE is a game some of us players have help build, if you have been playing 4 years solid you will understand where i am coming from. Andrue - I'm sorry but if you had been playing 4 years you would remember the immeasurable trouble that came with RMR, the fact the day after it was released the server had to be taken down numerous times. The week after it was down at least once per day for an unscheduled reboot, the fact the database would fail over every hour, there would be node outages across eve and lag was intolerable. EvE is a game that without a doubt has broken many barriers during its time, but it can break more, it can also be possibly one of the most frustrating games out there since players get so immersed in it and spend countless hours/days/months building their empires and for it all to fall due to lag - well, this is the thing that makes large groups leave. This advertisement will bring in an influx of players, i made my statistics as small as i possibly could, i took away the entire community from the total amount of steam users, i then halved it, i then thought that only 1% or so might try the trial account and that amount alone is huge - if my statistics are below what actually happens i will be very shocked. Play your game, speak up about your game - make your game - without us CCP is a mother without its child ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion

Dr Slaughter Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.24 12:43:00 - [71] Originally by: Shamen - without us CCP is a mother without its child Interesting thread. Children grow up and leave home though.... CCP this is not the nerf you are looking for... [a image was here once but it went away]
Anti Protagonist Archron Dusyfe Industries Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.01.24 12:46:00 - [72] Originally by: Kurtis Lowe Let's be honest with ourselves here CCP, even with top notch hardware running the eve client, most 50v50 or larger fleet battles end up being a slide show. I've never had a problem with such sized fights in the past 6 months since they've started improving things. Just last night I was in a 40 vs 80 fight that had absolutely no lag at all. Later that night, local peaked at 200+ and I experienced no lag. The servers can handle more than you give them credit for. They do still have their breaking point, but it's more like 300 invovled parties now days, not 100. I need a sig....
Lindsay Fox	Posted - 2008.01.24 14:50:00 - [73] Edited by: Lindsay Fox on 24/01/2008 14:52:52 What a ghastly thread. Some points: - Steam's 13,000,000 player subscriber list. How many of those are active during any one day? any one month? It sure as hell isn't 100%. I've got two steam accounts and I haven't logged onto either of them for 2 years at least. I'm sure I'm still being counted. - Eve has been around for 4 years, and during that time it has grown to a total of 40k concurrent users at the most. it's not like they've never advertised the game or anything. Pretty much every MMO player who has played more than just WoW already knows a fair bit about it. The idea that exposing it to steam users will suddenly quadruple the concurrent user count is absurd in the extreme. - Pretty much every steam user who is agreeable to the MMO concept is already playing WoW. Only a tiny fraction of those will give up their WoW life to play Eve. I do expect the Steam thing to grow the game but it will be a slow process. - Yes, there probably will be a sudden influx at first. Maybe 15000 new trial accounts in the first week (see, I can pull numbers out of my ass too!). 90% of the people who create trial accounts from Steam will go back to their mates and say Eve is horrible. It's too complex, there are no completely safe areas, noobs can't defend themselves, etc. I am frankly appalled at the negativity in the OP. I swear to god half of eve must have asberger's/autism as it seems any change of any sort to their precious Eve that they apparently own, is greeted by howling and crying with absolutely ZERO actual evidence to go on. Get a grip. CCP doesn't owe you anything.
heheheh Singularity. Talon Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.24 15:55:00 - [74] Originally by: StickyFingerz ill be blatantly honest, my main issue is the lack of avilible space not lag, space really is getting full in empire (and lets face it new users are going to be there), surely CCP have noticed this... i think it really is time for a reworking of the map, and some additional systems, or fixing of some of the agent hubs Or just move out of empire ?
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.24 15:59:00 - [75] Originally by: Lindsay Fox Edited by: Lindsay Fox on 24/01/2008 14:52:52 What a ghastly thread. Some points: - Steam's 13,000,000 player subscriber list. How many of those are active during any one day? any one month? It sure as hell isn't 100%. I've got two steam accounts and I haven't logged onto either of them for 2 years at least. I'm sure I'm still being counted. 13,000,000 to 15,000,000 is the amount i got as active steam users - people who have recently logged in. And do you honestly believe that Steam aren't going to try and put eve in everyones faces as much as possible? The newsletter will go out to all users who have registered and I'm sure it will mention eve, I'm also sure if Steam have a good promotions department it will be listed on multiple other sites also. Quote: - Eve has been around for 4 years, and during that time it has grown to a total of 40k concurrent users at the most. it's not like they've never advertised the game or anything. Pretty much every MMO player who has played more than just WoW already knows a fair bit about it. The idea that exposing it to steam users will suddenly quadruple the concurrent user count is absurd in the extreme. You would be supprized - if you had been around since the beginning of eve and been here to see some of the problems some of these 'adverts' have caused you would see my point. Quote: - Pretty much every steam user who is agreeable to the MMO concept is already playing WoW. Only a tiny fraction of those will give up their WoW life to play Eve. I do expect the Steam thing to grow the game but it will be a slow process. Thats laughable, sorry. Quote: - Yes, there probably will be a sudden influx at first. Maybe 15000 new trial accounts in the first week (see, I can pull numbers out of my ass too!). 90% of the people who create trial accounts from Steam will go back to their mates and say Eve is horrible. It's too complex, there are no completely safe areas, noobs can't defend themselves, etc. If you read the statistics i 'pulled from my ass' you will see that i underestimated in everything i did, i first took away the total amount of eve accounts, then i halved the entire number again. Quote: I am frankly appalled at the negativity in the OP. I swear to god half of eve must have asberger's/autism as it seems any change of any sort to their precious Eve that they apparently own, is greeted by howling and crying with absolutely ZERO actual evidence to go on. Get a grip. CCP doesn't owe you anything. This shows why you fail at making your point, you end up lowering yourself into the pit of name calling. Additionally, CCP owes me and any other 4+ year player an awful lot, CCP created the game, we made it. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Enraged Stoat	Posted - 2008.01.24 16:05:00 - [76] Steam have stats here http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=stats&cc=US Players Online current 398,649, peak 430,100. (from the 48 hours before this post). As a regular Steam user I was really happy to hear Eve was 'coming' to Steam. Great! Probably be better patch deployment, bring my game subscriptions under one roof, etc. Turns out it's just a shopfront, whoop-de-do. So you still have to subscribe directly with CCP (not that it's really a problem), and no change to the existing patch delivery system (not that it's particularly painful - except that one time....). My point is, Eve isn't really 'coming' to Steam, there's no integration at all. Eve is going to be 'sold' by Steam, and that's the end of the deal. Will there be as much fanfare when Amazon starts selling it? Oh, wait....
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.24 16:06:00 - [77] Originally by: Enraged Stoat Steam have stats here http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=stats&cc=US Players Online current 398,649, peak 430,100. (from the 48 hours before this post). As a regular Steam user I was really happy to hear Eve was 'coming' to Steam. Great! Probably be better patch deployment, bring my game subscriptions under one roof, etc. Turns out it's just a shopfront, whoop-de-do. So you still have to subscribe directly with CCP (not that it's really a problem), and no change to the existing patch delivery system (not that it's particularly painful - except that one time....). My point is, Eve isn't really 'coming' to Steam, there's no integration at all. Eve is going to be 'sold' by Steam, and that's the end of the deal. Will there be as much fanfare when Amazon starts selling it? Oh, wait.... These are just people playing the games, not actually using the steam platform. You have to email steam directly for more statistics. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Enraged Stoat	Posted - 2008.01.24 16:37:00 - [78] Edited by: Enraged Stoat on 24/01/2008 16:39:43 Edited by: Enraged Stoat on 24/01/2008 16:39:10 Originally by: Shamen These are just people playing the games, not actually using the steam platform. It's a count of people playing games that are delivered via the Steam platform. IE, actual usage, not some meaningless count of 135823 bazillion accounts 99% of which are idle and/or haven't logged in for 2 years. Shame there's no way to increase the range of that graph from 48 hours to a couple of years, and that the 'Average unique players per month' stats appears broken.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.01.24 16:44:00 - [79] Originally by: CCP Atropos I'll see if I can poke someone to post some details of current server performance though That would be fine. I think CCP have this kind of questions from the community because CCP is twice less vocal than before Trinity. I hope it's not a new strategy, because I liked the old way... I mean : communication about Steam when it's set, vague talks about infiniband, factional warfare as a complete mystery, revelation 3 or no revelation 3... I mean now Trinity is out, future of Eve is only speculations. That is the problem i guess. Anyway, lag is #1 player concern, you know what I mean. When you play Eve "like a customer", you see the lag. I guess when CCP play Eve "like programmers", everything is better than yesterday, or you can find solutions, client optimisations or "that's not our fault" causes to explain lagpeaks. It could be cool to take a few hours to make a list of tricks and client optimisations everyone should do before going to PVP in a fleet. If we have the same referential look about the lag, maybe we could agree :) 2isk
Dr Slaughter Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.24 19:44:00 - [80] Originally by: CCP Atropos I would suggest you navigate to this (from 18:20 onwards.) It is the recording of Hilmar's speech from Fanfest, detailing where we're heading in the coming months and years. Hadn't watched that presentation before. Thanks for the link. Off-topic but let Hilmar know that... Quote: Contrary to popular belief, the oldest working parliament in the world is not in Iceland, but in the Isle of Man, where the Scandinavians ruled for almost 500 years. The Tynwald, established in the 9th century AD, claims to be the worldÆs oldest continuous parliament CCP this is not the nerf you are looking for... [a image was here once but it went away]

Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.24 20:35:00 - [81] I wonder if all the people complaining about Eve have proper computers. On my old computer, which is still pretty good, I'd get lag spikes when a lot was going on. My new machine cleared that up. Moral of the story is that not all lag is server side. A lot of people complain about lag but I just don't encounter it that often. /makes fart noise
Lallante Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.24 20:50:00 - [82] Originally by: CCP Atropos Pure hell for EVE? I don't find that many issues with server performance when I play. Additionally, the press release states that EVE is going to be available to download through Steam. This doesn't mean that the server is going to explode with new users overnight, so you don't have much to worry about in terms of a sudden drop in performance. We're constantly aiming to improve the server performance and we are working on doing just that. We can't trickle improvements in, one piece at a time, since this results in a continuous maintenance period for TQ, denying people the ability to play. As such, the performance of the server will stay as it is until such a time as we do roll out an update. It will happen, that I can guarantee you, and as a gesture of good faith, I give you the projected time of arrival as SoonÖ. Try logging out of LOTRO and into EVE then... Seriously the server issues now are the worse they have been since beta. And thats saying something. Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
Phenia 0-0 Space Squad Culture Shock Initiative	Posted - 2008.01.24 20:52:00 - [83] Originally by: CCP Atropos Originally by: Shamen My question is this:- Please can you tell us, the player base, what your future plans are for creating a much more stable infrastructure (server) in both the short and long term. Despite what you stated in the official Steam news-post thread, I have attempted to answer your question. I've given you unarguable information from the CEO of the company, about the areas we are currently researching in cohort with large technological powerhouses such as IBM and Microsoft, and where we are heading with the server design for EVE, in addition to restating out promise that we will reduce the appearance of lag within the game universe. Without being part of the teams currently working on these projects I can't point to something and give you real, hard facts about the performance of the client and server in upcoming releases, but I can tell you from working with the client benchmarking suites we use internally, the client itself is, in general, preforming better with Trinity than it was prior to it's release. The Need for Speed initiative you reference is still ongoing, and it's one of our main goals; to reduce the strain ships and modules place upon the game and the universe as a whole. This can be seen with some of the suggestions that have been discussed regarding such things as drone lag on Carriers and Motherships, all the way through to accessing corporate hangar arrays and POS sieges. Unfortunately there is no one fix that will suddenly make EVE 'perfect' and lag free. However we are aiming to mitigate the effects of running a multi user environment across such a volatile medium as the Internet. It will never be completed, since it's an ongoing battle to improve technology and software that is always bested by the player base; every time you increase the number of people that can fight concurrently, the groups taking part draw more people into their conflicts, whether it's PVE or PVP. People will always want 'bigger and better' and even with HPC technologies this will result in 1000 v 1000 people fights. As such, I can only do what I have done, which is to restate our promise to constantly fight the lag monster, and over time to deliver an ever improving and consistently playable game environment. You've been talking about faction warfare for almost 3 years, and walking in station for 2. You first mentioned supercomputing maybe 4 months ago. Can we expect it around 2011? -------------------------- Troll? Me?
Qlimax	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:15:00 - [84] Originally by: CCP Atropos Pure hell for EVE? I don't find that many issues with server performance when I play. Additionally, the press release states that EVE is going to be available to download through Steam. This doesn't mean that the server is going to explode with new users overnight, so you don't have much to worry about in terms of a sudden drop in performance. We're constantly aiming to improve the server performance and we are working on doing just that. We can't trickle improvements in, one piece at a time, since this results in a continuous maintenance period for TQ, denying people the ability to play. As such, the performance of the server will stay as it is until such a time as we do roll out an update. It will happen, that I can guarantee you, and as a gesture of good faith, I give you the projected time of arrival as SoonÖ. what u mean u dont find much issues with EVE when u play? i wonder how much u actually play. as for the rest of us players, we REALLY do play. some play for over 15 hours non-stop. hell, i think more than 50% do that, i know i do. or did i should say. heck, i cant do that no more, not when i know that if i lose a t2 fitted HAC which can easily get blown up in a lvl 3 mission and there wont be a chance on earth of EVE that CCP will reimburse it. cus they cant find anything special about it. but yea, CCP does believe us of not fabricating anything fishy, CCP just dont feel like reimbursing it. i need an explanation on that, what does it mean for the game when u can just die and none gives a damn. how do we know that if in a few months, or even after a year CCP will have double the subscribers that it already has now, there will still be good services provided not to mention ship reimbursements. im sure ill be able to live the day when CCP will announce the Reimbursement removal from the list of petitions. i mean u mite as well do it already, cus its just there to thicken the list prolly. and a big sum of it are being turned back negative, right? so once more, why would we the players of EVE today be happy and cheerfull with EVE going to Steam???
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.24 23:37:00 - [85] Originally by: Anti Protagonist Originally by: Kurtis Lowe Let's be honest with ourselves here CCP, even with top notch hardware running the eve client, most 50v50 or larger fleet battles end up being a slide show. I've never had a problem with such sized fights in the past 6 months since they've started improving things. Just last night I was in a 40 vs 80 fight that had absolutely no lag at all. Later that night, local peaked at 200+ and I experienced no lag. The servers can handle more than you give them credit for. They do still have their breaking point, but it's more like 300 invovled parties now days, not 100. Linky for you to read I hope CCP are taking this very seriously. Also guys can i request we remain respectful towards CCP in this thread, they are taking a noticeable amount of interest in what we have to say, we just have to wait for more replies from them. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Lindsay Fox	Posted - 2008.01.25 03:34:00 - [86] Originally by: Shamen This shows why you fail at making your point, you end up lowering yourself into the pit of name calling. Additionally, CCP owes me and any other 4+ year player an awful lot, CCP created the game, we made it. I don't think I called anyone names; I was making a comment about the general eve populace's resistance to any changes, which is a common attribute of people afflicted with the asberger's and autism developmental disorders. No, CCP does not owe you anything. Vote with your wallet. If you have invested so much in the game that you can't leave even when you hate playing it, that's your fault. Interesting that a poster above has mentioned about 400k concurrent steam users. Using that figure...it's about 3% of the subscribers numbers you mentioned earlier. So if, as you believe, we get 260000 new subscribers via steam, we will be looking at an increase of 8000 in terms of concurrent users in Eve. That's a 20% increase. I am pretty sure the existing servers will handle that fine. Lastly, I think an earlier poster is spot on when he says that people may be confusing client-side lag with server-side lag. I will say from experience that he is correct. The lag that occurs during HUGE fleet battles is server-side lag, and it feels completely different than lag you get when your video card chugs rendering 50 or 100 ships on the screen. For a start, server-side lag is NOT a slideshow. I get 70fps while trying to load the grid for 20 minutes, I can pan the camera smoothly, etc. If you are getting a slideshow, that's your computer, not the server. Anyhow, my overall point stands - this thread is full of hysterical nonsense. I have worked in corporations for 20 years and have seen similar reactions to impending restructures or other large-scale changes, and the panic level is always totally out of proportion. This seems about the same.
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.01.25 06:04:00 - [87] Shamen merely an Amarr, busily peddling his own religion of doom so he can promote himself as your prophet and saviour. When it turns out that advertising on Steam recruits only a few thousand new subscribers he'll be blaming the Minmatar for all his problems.
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.25 13:26:00 - [88] Originally by: Lindsay Fox Originally by: Shamen This shows why you fail at making your point, you end up lowering yourself into the pit of name calling. Additionally, CCP owes me and any other 4+ year player an awful lot, CCP created the game, we made it. I don't think I called anyone names; I was making a comment about the general eve populace's resistance to any changes, which is a common attribute of people afflicted with the asberger's and autism developmental disorders. No, CCP does not owe you anything. Vote with your wallet. If you have invested so much in the game that you can't leave even when you hate playing it, that's your fault. Interesting that a poster above has mentioned about 400k concurrent steam users. Using that figure...it's about 3% of the subscribers numbers you mentioned earlier. So if, as you believe, we get 260000 new subscribers via steam, we will be looking at an increase of 8000 in terms of concurrent users in Eve. That's a 20% increase. I am pretty sure the existing servers will handle that fine. Lastly, I think an earlier poster is spot on when he says that people may be confusing client-side lag with server-side lag. I will say from experience that he is correct. The lag that occurs during HUGE fleet battles is server-side lag, and it feels completely different than lag you get when your video card chugs rendering 50 or 100 ships on the screen. For a start, server-side lag is NOT a slideshow. I get 70fps while trying to load the grid for 20 minutes, I can pan the camera smoothly, etc. If you are getting a slideshow, that's your computer, not the server. Anyhow, my overall point stands - this thread is full of hysterical nonsense. I have worked in corporations for 20 years and have seen similar reactions to impending restructures or other large-scale changes, and the panic level is always totally out of proportion. This seems about the same. The servers will not be able to handle another 8000 users and continue as it is (and as it stands the server finds it rather hard to cope with 200 people in the same system fighting at the moment - See prior statements made). If you want to sit back and be taken for a ride and be the kind of person that deals with a problem AFTER it has occurred then be my guest, since we are name dropping i have been working for the largest server provider in the world for quite some time now and our motto is to solve a problem before it arrives so it cannot manifest and develop into an even bigger issue. This should be the motto here, with server issues comes downtime, with downtime comes annoyed customers, with annoyed customers comes bad publicity and loss of said custom. As for server/client side lag - Please give people some credit where it is due, i have just been involved in a skirmish of around 200 people and the lag there was rather noticeable - this was not a sideshow but modules taking quite some time to activate, i had FPS of around about 90-130 throughout the fight the first 30min was absolutely horrendous. I run Intel Core2 Extreme Quad QX6850 Nvidia 8800GTX Black Pearl ASUS Maximus Extreme Republic of Gamers iX38 With 4gb RAM I only upgraded to this about 1 month ago and i can guarantee you, this is not client side lag. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Pan Crastus Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.25 13:49:00 - [89] Edited by: Pan Crastus on 25/01/2008 13:49:03 Originally by: CCP Atropos Pure hell for EVE? I don't find that many issues with server performance when I play. Do you work in the QA department by any chance? EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.25 14:12:00 - [90] Originally by: Lindsay Fox No, CCP does not owe you anything. Vote with your wallet. If you have invested so much in the game that you can't leave even when you hate playing it, that's your fault. Additionally, in response to this I'm afraid you are deluded. CCP acknowledges the fact they would never be where they are today without the people who have put them there, namely us. Without the people who have supported eve since its inception do you really think it would still be running? Answer: No ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion

Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:25:00 - [91] Any more information Atropos? ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Jack Wilder Strategic Solutions Ltd. Solidus Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.26 15:26:00 - [92] Originally by: CCP Atropos Pure hell for EVE? I don't find that many issues with server performance when I play. Every tried to do an L4 mission for Caldari Navy for any agent with positive quality on a saturday afternoon?
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.26 20:23:00 - [93] 20:20:51 Info Dear Players, Jita system is currently quite loaded and we advice players to try to avoid entering or going through the system for the time being. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this has caused and we hope this will be over soon. Best regards, Senior GM Zworm EVE Online Customer Support Team First one iv seen in a long long time... ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.27 14:48:00 - [94] Originally by: Shamen Please do not discuss GM correspondence on the forums - Mitnal You do realize that this was an announcement INGAME and not from a PETITION! Quote: [ 2008.01.26 20:20:51 ] (info) Dear Players, Jita system is currently quite loaded and we advice players to try to avoid entering or going through the system for the time being. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this has caused and we hope this will be over soon. Best regards, Senior GM Zworm EVE Online Customer Support Team ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Hadeeze Debyataur Non-Conformist Amarr Loyalists	Posted - 2008.01.27 14:52:00 - [95] Originally by: Shamen Originally by: Shamen Please do not discuss GM correspondence on the forums - Mitnal You do realize that this was an announcement INGAME and not from a PETITION! Quote: [ 2008.01.26 20:20:51 ] (info) Dear Players, Jita system is currently quite loaded and we advice players to try to avoid entering or going through the system for the time being. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this has caused and we hope this will be over soon. Best regards, Senior GM Zworm EVE Online Customer Support Team lawl @ Mitnal.
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:06:00 - [96] And my point has now been fully made. There is a fleet of about 500 ships in a single system in Delve, there are smaller groups in the region of course, the entire region is lagged, not just the system with the fleet in, the entire region. I am stuck jumping into the delve region and have been for the past 15min. This is several jumps from the fleet and CCP wish to add more people to this mess? Talk about digging your own grave. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Thargat Caldari North Star Networks Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:49:00 - [97] I heard from a friends uncles daughters old roommate that CCPs servers are the TRUE cause of global warming. There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius.
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.30 11:32:00 - [98] Originally by: Thargat I heard from a friends uncles daughters old roommate that CCPs servers are the TRUE cause of global warming. Nice, Can we get stats now please? :D ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Tar om Minmatar Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.30 11:59:00 - [99] Edited by: Tar om on 30/01/2008 12:01:28 Originally by: StickyFingerz ill be blatantly honest, my main issue is the lack of avilible space not lag, space really is getting full in empire (and lets face it new users are going to be there), surely CCP have noticed this... i think it really is time for a reworking of the map, and some additional systems, or fixing of some of the agent hubs or stop clinging to the noob-nursery and move out to 0.0? edit: that's actually too harsh. I'd love to see more space, but it should be 0.0 and lowsec. Empire is big enough. -- DEVS get multiple CPUs/Cores per system and all will be forgiven.
Vladt	Posted - 2008.01.30 12:32:00 - [100] I think CCP Atropos is just a plain old "Carebear" who is on watch to give us "hard" facts about the Lagsitutation. Point one ... there is a simulation Kit as he pointed out. So ther should be number "how many" member can be in one Grid/Node to get Lag times under 1 Minute ! Point two ... he is not directly involved as he can only refer to "official" positions of CCP Point three ... Buddy you will see so much traffic in Jita , when the steam Plattform overs "EVE" that you wish you would be dead Point four ... join a "LARGE" Alli and just sit in the system where they are having a "POS WAR" ... maybe it is a nice experience for you !!!

MOS DEF 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.01.30 14:45:00 - [101] Originally by: CCP Atropos Pure hell for EVE? I don't find that many issues with server performance when I play. Additionally, the press release states that EVE is going to be available to download through Steam. This doesn't mean that the server is going to explode with new users overnight, so you don't have much to worry about in terms of a sudden drop in performance. We're constantly aiming to improve the server performance and we are working on doing just that. We can't trickle improvements in, one piece at a time, since this results in a continuous maintenance period for TQ, denying people the ability to play. As such, the performance of the server will stay as it is until such a time as we do roll out an update. It will happen, that I can guarantee you, and as a gesture of good faith, I give you the projected time of arrival as SoonÖ. May i ask wich game you play and on wich server? It can't be eve - at least not on Tranquility. Nowadays you don't even need to be in one of those blob fights. Our whole gang (just 6 people) got stuck in syndicate a few days ago. The system we jumped in was empty. It sadly shared the node with some fleet battle system though it seems. Our petitions were answered with: sorry we cannot move you. So that game you speak of that is working just fine? How is it called and where can it be bought?
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.31 01:42:00 - [102] And so my fellow pod pilots, it begins. Quote: 01:39:54 Notify Traffic Advisory: Officials have closed the stargates and undocking ramps in I9-ZQZ in the 42-WDG constellation of the Feythabolis region due to heavy congestion. Travellers are advised to seek alternate routes. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.04 12:07:00 - [103] Still waiting for the information... ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Burlock Ironfist M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.02.05 11:30:00 - [104] I seriously believe eve is hitting crittical mass and i dont really want to been a doom sayer but it juts kinda sucks, i know that massive fleet battles will always be a problem but im finding more and more these days simple operations just take along time, even in unpopulated systems, ccp have gone very quite on this side since the announcement at ff (which at the time i thought was awsome news). I honestly think they made the announcement to early and as usuall for ccp they promise something and then it take simply forever to impliment it. I understand that these things take time and i know that what they are doing in mind boggoling complex, but its like dangling a carrot infront of a donkey and making the donkey walk till it utterly collapses before giving it the carrot, and thats the stage eve is almost at utter collapse, they either need to find a faster intermediate solution or make sure this new server comes out soon. Quote: correcting wrongs on the internet is like subtracting 1 from infinity
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.05 12:30:00 - [105] Originally by: Jack Wilder Originally by: CCP Atropos Pure hell for EVE? I don't find that many issues with server performance when I play. Every tried to do an L4 mission for Caldari Navy for any agent with positive quality on a saturday afternoon? No but then why would I need/want to? There's other Caldari corporations that are just as good in every respect. They also tend to be free of lag. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Burlock Ironfist M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.02.05 13:16:00 - [106] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Jack Wilder Originally by: CCP Atropos Pure hell for EVE? I don't find that many issues with server performance when I play. Every tried to do an L4 mission for Caldari Navy for any agent with positive quality on a saturday afternoon? No but then why would I need/want to? There's other Caldari corporations that are just as good in every respect. They also tend to be free of lag. i find that a really bad argument though why should he not be able to do what he want to within a game, to say that people should just do something else to avoid lag is not the right thing. they should be able to do what they want if ccp can not cope with it they should find some way to either improve there service or not offer it within the game. Quote: correcting wrongs on the internet is like subtracting 1 from infinity
ikillmacrominers Caldari Universal Enterprises	Posted - 2008.02.05 14:07:00 - [107] Originally by: CCP Atropos Pure hell for EVE? I don't find that many issues with server performance when I play. Then you don't play.
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.07 20:03:00 - [108] Edited by: Shamen on 07/02/2008 20:04:52 I must say that delve at the moment is g.... r.... e..................a.......t............................. Quote: We from the friendly insurance company Pend Insurance regret the recent loss of your spacecraft. According to the agreement between Pend Insurance and SCC, we hereby grant you a brand new Ibis, fully fitted. Also included is a gratuity gift of Tritanium. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion Shamen easily beat me to an announcement and still did not get a sticky. <3, Navigator


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