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Request for clarification - Dear CCP...

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 13:26:00 - [1] Dear CCP, Kerion, Wrangler, Dev After reading this thread and reading so many comments from people it is a rather disturbing thought that CCP are still actively trying to increase their members-base by doing quite large publicity stunts (a.k.a Steam). Now from a business perspective this is a wonderful concept and will be great if you can pull it off, but from a player and infrastructure perspective this is absolutely hideous with the current state of things. My question is this:- Please can you tell us, the player base, what your future plans are for creating a much more stable infrastructure (server) in both the short and long term. We have seen the 'Need for speed' initiative which seems to have given a rather minor perceptual boost, but nothing more. The Trinity 2 Client i must admit is great - but the server lag is still cutting it short. Jita is still as horrendous as ever and nothing is being done about it in the players eyes. So i implore you CCP, give us a heads up, make us believe in your communication once again because quite frankly most people who understand this concept are rather worried about a large influx of players. Kind Regards ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Jakus Cemendur Caldari The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.23 13:34:00 - [2] Edited by: Jakus Cemendur on 23/01/2008 13:35:09 Useful link: Infiniband If you want the tl;dr version, they're investing in new technology that will basically turn the server cluster into a super computer and will allow the spreading of the load on a node to multiple servers instead of being stuck on 1. And it is being worked on at the moment and according to CCP will be in action sometime this year.
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 13:47:00 - [3] Edited by: Shamen on 23/01/2008 13:46:47 Originally by: Jakus Cemendur Edited by: Jakus Cemendur on 23/01/2008 13:35:09 Useful link: Infiniband If you want the tl;dr version, they're investing in new technology that will basically turn the server cluster into a super computer and will allow the spreading of the load on a node to multiple servers instead of being stuck on 1. And it is being worked on at the moment and according to CCP will be in action sometime this year. Thank you for this and i understand that Infiniband will help but my point being, CCP releases EvE on Steam in the very very near future, Infiniband isn't anywhere near ready - The influx of players will come before any infrastructure deployment as far as I'm aware (note: I'm not privied to all CCP internal messages) Just to give the general scope of this, Steam has an average of 13-15 million users. If just 1-2% of those users come to EvE thats an additional 260000 players (calculated from the 13m). For those who were around during the last player increase before the cluster upgrade you will remember continual server crashes, stuck characters, inflated downtimes and just a nightmare of a game. To me it seems as tho CCP's left foot(commercial) is going at a much faster pace than its right(infrastructure). There needs to be cohesion between the two, all i see is a mess unfortunately. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Grimm Myn Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.01.23 13:50:00 - [4] Confirmation that EvE will NOT require Steam to play The more capital CCP can use = hiring of specialists for infiniband, more hardware, more employees in general = faster process in general. It was a good opportunity for CCP and Valve to work together and both took the chance. Would you say no to the possibility of tapping into a large resource of new users? [404] Signature not found.
knifee Caldari Rage Academy oooh Shiny	Posted - 2008.01.23 13:54:00 - [5] Originally by: Shamen Just to give the general scope of this, Steam has an average of 13-15 million users. If just 1-2% of those users come to EvE thats an additional 260000 players (calculated from the 13m). i hope that steam is a success for CCP, but lets face it there was nothing stopping people from playing the game before this announcement and adding another source for the client d/load isn't going to guarantee any new players, let alone doubling the membership as people keep on saying. www.eve-dev.net - making a good thing better
Armoured C Gallente Globaltech Industries Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2008.01.23 13:54:00 - [6] Originally by: Grimm Myn Confirmation that EvE will NOT require Steam to play The more capital CCP can use = hiring of specialists for infiniband, more hardware, more employees in general = faster process in general. It was a good opportunity for CCP and Valve to work together and both took the chance. Would you say no to the possibility of tapping into a large resource of new users? i dont see what the problem with steam is anyway they make good games ...arnt we a good enough game to be on steam we solopwn all game out there for being the most unique and obviously the best aswell
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 13:56:00 - [7] Originally by: Grimm Myn Confirmation that EvE will NOT require Steam to play The more capital CCP can use = hiring of specialists for infiniband, more hardware, more employees in general = faster process in general. It was a good opportunity for CCP and Valve to work together and both took the chance. Would you say no to the possibility of tapping into a large resource of new users? No where have i stated that Steam will be needed to play eve, it will just join the group of games under the steam umbrella. My point is this:- The server at the moment is very close to reaching its overhead, now we have been in this situation before where the server could pucker up and kiss its overhead and if you see my previous statements you will see the repercussions of that. There were entire weeks where there would be an unscheduled reboot at least once per day, sometimes more than once. I understand your concept of 'Hey more players more money' but with the current player base CCP have more than enough revenue to bring in specialists for Infiniband. Dumbed down point, CCP are jumping into a pool before they can swim - again ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 13:59:00 - [8] Originally by: knifee Originally by: Shamen Just to give the general scope of this, Steam has an average of 13-15 million users. If just 1-2% of those users come to EvE thats an additional 260000 players (calculated from the 13m). i hope that steam is a success for CCP, but lets face it there was nothing stopping people from playing the game before this announcement and adding another source for the client d/load isn't going to guarantee any new players, let alone doubling the membership as people keep on saying. Eve isn't as 'well known' as people who play it perceive. Sure in the MMORPG realm EvE is a frequented name. In the FPS realm which is Steam homeground eve will be heard of little. Admittedly there are a few players who go between MMORPGs and FPS but surprisingly there are pure FPSers out there who haven't ventured into the realm of MMORPGS yet... Great commercial venture, dire infrastructure consequences. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:01:00 - [9] I just have one question for you, Shamen: Don't you think the people at CCP have already considered all these issues? ________________
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn I just have one question for you, Shamen: Don't you think the people at CCP have already considered all these issues? Possibly, and in all honesty i hope to dear god they have. But the detrimental point being, why release eve on steam before the server can handle any kind of influx of players? If they had thought about it why release eve on steam beforehand? ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion

MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:04:00 - [11] I have to agree... CCP can the servers take 100,000 people at once yet? be careful.
Jakus Cemendur Caldari The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:05:00 - [12] Originally by: Shamen Possibly, and in all honesty i hope to dear god they have. But the detrimental point being, why release eve on steam before the server can handle any kind of influx of players? If they had thought about it why release eve on steam beforehand? Money probably. More subscribers = more money = more money to invest in future development and in server upgrade.
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:10:00 - [13] Originally by: Jakus Cemendur Originally by: Shamen Possibly, and in all honesty i hope to dear god they have. But the detrimental point being, why release eve on steam before the server can handle any kind of influx of players? If they had thought about it why release eve on steam beforehand? Money probably. More subscribers = more money = more money to invest in future development and in server upgrade. But is also counter productive... The point is this - The life of a noob Hey great a new game for me to play, lets go try the trial Hey this game is spiffy, quite a large learning curve but that makes it more fun -pays for account- Ummm 'Dear Players please make sure your characters are out of harms way for an unscheduled server reboot' Hey why isn't the server up? Its been down for an hour now why is it still down Umm, my character is stuck, hello... can anyone help me... My guns, they wont active, my shield booster - ohhh no im dead i just lost my ship to lag... -Cancels subscription- Do you see the point? More money for a month possibly, fractionally more money overall, but what new player in their right mind will stay with a game that cant handle the server load? ______________________________________________ Shamen* Dark Angel Battalion
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:10:00 - [14] Originally by: Jakus Cemendur Originally by: Shamen Possibly, and in all honesty i hope to dear god they have. But the detrimental point being, why release eve on steam before the server can handle any kind of influx of players? If they had thought about it why release eve on steam beforehand? Money probably. More subscribers = more money = more money to invest in future development and in server upgrade. No sane company ever invests in advertising / distribution in order to gain funds to improve their service.
Theo Samaritan Gallente Pheonix Reborn	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:13:00 - [15] Speaking to the devs at fanfest, they said the infiniband server will hopefully be up before mid 2008. dont worry about it, they know what they are doing, k? -------------- Templars do not tank Jita so well without a steady supply of Cake.
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:17:00 - [16] Originally by: Theo Samaritan Speaking to the devs at fanfest, they said the infiniband server will hopefully be up before mid 2008. dont worry about it, they know what they are doing, k? It was initially slated for Feb'08, now its mid'08, if you have been here for quite some time you will understand my skepticism. Expect Infiniband in Q3 08 - Valve/Steam will be releasing their commercial venture with CCP in the very near future... go figure. ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:42:00 - [17] Originally by: MotherMoon I have to agree... CCP can the servers take 100,000 people at once yet? be careful. If you go by the MIT article that was out last, the largest number I heard was 70,000. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:47:00 - [18] lag in eve is not that bad, it only gets bad in hubs like jita, and in large fleet fights, even if 10k players joined, as long as they did not all go to the same places the server would be ok IMO. the reason im n the allaince im in is becuase small scale pvp is back in town, only last night i had a very fun fight, with over 15 people in total, lag free, lots of fun, its just the grouping and ccps requirment to play in large groups that causes the issues.
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 14:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Xtreem lag in eve is not that bad, it only gets bad in hubs like jita, and in large fleet fights, even if 10k players joined, as long as they did not all go to the same places the server would be ok IMO. the reason im n the allaince im in is becuase small scale pvp is back in town, only last night i had a very fun fight, with over 15 people in total, lag free, lots of fun, its just the grouping and ccps requirment to play in large groups that causes the issues. Which is why CCP need to cater to its player base and not the other way around :) ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion
Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 16:58:00 - [20] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: MotherMoon I have to agree... CCP can the servers take 100,000 people at once yet? be careful. If you go by the MIT article that was out last, the largest number I heard was 70,000. Can you find this for us please? ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion

Kyra Felann Gallente Elite Storm Enterprises	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:00:00 - [21] Originally by: Armoured C i dont see what the problem with steam is anyway they make good games ...arnt we a good enough game to be on steam Steam doesn't make games any more than Wal-mart does.

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:01:00 - [22] I would suggest you navigate to this (from 18:20 onwards.) It is the recording of Hilmar's speech from Fanfest, detailing where we're heading in the coming months and years. Notably he comments on our burgeoning supercomputing initiatives with IBM and Microsoft, as well as changes to our network architecture to benefit from HPC technologies such as Infiniband, as you have already linked. Whilst it does date from last November, it is still our ongoing vision for both the short and long term. I don't doubt that as new information is available, it will be released to the player base, but at present there simply isn't anything more concrete than re-elaborating upon that which you have already discussed.

Shamen Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:05:00 - [23] Originally by: CCP Atropos I would suggest you navigate to this (from 18:20 onwards.) It is the recording of Hilmar's speech from Fanfest, detailing where we're heading in the coming months and years. Notably he comments on our burgeoning supercomputing initiatives with IBM and Microsoft, as well as changes to our network architecture to benefit from HPC technologies such as Infiniband, as you have already linked. Whilst it does date from last November, it is still our ongoing vision for both the short and long term. I don't doubt that as new information is available, it will be released to the player base, but at present there simply isn't anything more concrete than re-elaborating upon that which you have already discussed. So my conclusion that nothing will be done before the Steam-eve rollout is put into action causing another few months of pure hell for eve? ______________________________________________ Shamen Dark Angel Battalion

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:13:00 - [24] Pure hell for EVE? I don't find that many issues with server performance when I play. Additionally, the press release states that EVE is going to be available to download through Steam. This doesn't mean that the server is going to explode with new users overnight, so you don't have much to worry about in terms of a sudden drop in performance. We're constantly aiming to improve the server performance and we are working on doing just that. We can't trickle improvements in, one piece at a time, since this results in a continuous maintenance period for TQ, denying people the ability to play. As such, the performance of the server will stay as it is until such a time as we do roll out an update. It will happen, that I can guarantee you, and as a gesture of good faith, I give you the projected time of arrival as SoonÖ.

Shadow Joy	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:14:00 - [25] Originally by: Shamen So my conclusion that nothing will be done before the Steam-eve rollout is put into action causing another few months of pure hell for eve? Since when do pushers care about making junkies lives hell?
Gone'Postal Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:15:00 - [26] Originally by: Shamen So my conclusion that nothing will be done before the Steam-eve rollout is put into action causing another few months of pure hell for eve? Your thinking mirror's my own. CCP: Were like a clock upon a wall, Always moving but never going anywhere.
Nexus Kinnon Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:35:00 - [27] Do you people seriously just sit in Jita all day staring at the station background in 4-4 and whining on the forums? Nothing is perfect. However, I have had absolutely zero problems with lag when outside main hubs. (read: Jita)
phishstik Gallente North Face Force	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:42:00 - [28] Hmmm with all that computing power, how long until Tranquility becomes self aware.....
StickyFingerz Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:44:00 - [29] ill be blatantly honest, my main issue is the lack of avilible space not lag, space really is getting full in empire (and lets face it new users are going to be there), surely CCP have noticed this... i think it really is time for a reworking of the map, and some additional systems, or fixing of some of the agent hubs
Kyreax Neuronix Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2008.01.23 17:47:00 - [30] More player in Eve is a good idea, from both a business standpoint and development. This game is like a giant beta test....frankly it's fun to be involved. And honestly, if the servers are down for a few hours...go outside and play some football or something. If you don't have the patience to be in a game that's constantly evolving, Eve certainly isn't for you. Evolution has some hiccups. Larger player base = more CCP capital to spend on: a. beer (first priority!) b. Supercomputing servers that melt London c. more employees to make more content And its not like they're all going to log in and high-tail it to Jita right away....is it? --------------------------------------------------- It's a Templar, an Amarr Fighter used by Carriers.



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