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1400mm''s Changed on TQ

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GFLTorque	Posted - 2004.03.25 03:09:00 - [1] What changes were made to 1400mm's Projectiles on TQ? My best damage has dropped considerably. 10 Days ago, hits of 1300, wrecking shots while chaining about every 15-20 minutes. Now the hits are 200-300 points less, wrecking shots 1 per hour or so. I have conferred with other very experienced users of this gun, that have made the same observation. What changes were made to either the gun, the mods, or the skills? Anyone else noticing these changes feel free to keep this thread alive, until its observed. 4 out of 3 people have trouble with fractions
ShadowHawk	Posted - 2004.03.25 06:24:00 - [2] I've seen a drop in damage as well as a drop in hit/miss ratio... I used to hit about 80% of the shots, now it's more like 40%... in addition, the overall damage went from 3-400 regular to 2-300 Your 280mm 'Scout' Artillery I perfectly strikes Sansha's Scavenger, wrecking for 264.3 damage.
Estios	Posted - 2004.03.25 11:11:00 - [3] I heard a rumour that Tracking comp's were fubar'd , perhaps this could explain. I always use a tracking comp with 1400's coz they miss so much. FFS I hope they havent just changed a gun without telling anyone. Every other gun/ammo change usually gets a thread of its own and testing on Chaos so Id be surprised if this nerf you speak of really has occurred. So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
Mitram	Posted - 2004.03.25 11:12:00 - [4] Is there any change in the info of your 1400's? I wonder if there is an unanounced adjustment. Not necessarily at the weapon but maybe at the ship bonus, skill bonus, or dmg/tacking mod bonus.
Rancid Mare	Posted - 2004.03.25 12:49:00 - [5] Quote: FFS I hope they havent just changed a gun without telling anyone. change an integeral part of a lot of peoples set ups with out telling them ? CCP wouldnt do such a dastardly thing would they ? opps they allready did and often. do not be surprissed if this is the case. and dont bother to complain as you will only envoke the sukkers to flame you in ccp defence. Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals. Our Webby Recruitement Videos here
XpoHoc	Posted - 2004.03.25 16:16:00 - [6] Edited by: XpoHoc on 25/03/2004 16:16:48 They have decreased the optimal range of the guns, but maybe it's just a skill bug. 1400mm are screwed totally, they hit for nothing, a lot of misses.
Soulstinger	Posted - 2004.03.25 16:52:00 - [7] Im not sure if I was just having a bad day, but my Tachs were doing greatly reduced damage yesterday as well. . Surgical 4 Large Energy 4 and couldnt get a hit in for over 380 (wrecking too)
Admiral IceBlock	Posted - 2004.03.25 16:58:00 - [8] good news for the cruiser users! "We brake for nobody"
DeathBunny	Posted - 2004.03.25 17:09:00 - [9] Its not a ship skill. I'm getting my hits what I normal do for it. Been playing with 800mm's for the past few days but on Sunday when I was using the 1400's it was doing great. *Fear The Bunny*
ShadowHawk	Posted - 2004.03.25 18:20:00 - [10] Edited by: ShadowHawk on 25/03/2004 18:21:35 I checked the stats on my 1400mms last night together with an optical tracking computer... range was added correctly when the tracking comp was on, but tracking was the same as without the tracking comp... then I fired a few shots, switched off the tracking comp and switched it back on, now the tracking benefit was there... will do some more tests tonight to see if there is a pattern. Your 280mm 'Scout' Artillery I perfectly strikes Sansha's Scavenger, wrecking for 264.3 damage.
XpoHoc	Posted - 2004.03.25 18:22:00 - [11] The tracking computers are bugged sinse Eve exists, I've told it about 100 times, wrote bug reports. But that's not the point, I don't use them and the 1400mm are crap now.
GFLTorque	Posted - 2004.03.25 19:17:00 - [12] I've not run a tracking computer much in the last few days. However, I've noticed such a change and have now fired so many 1400 rounds post patch, that its obvious something has been altered/fixed/nerfed. Would be nice to get a BH, or DEV to reply. Was there an issue, or did Joshua's crying over 1400mm's bring out the nerf bat? (Tongue N Cheek) ty 4 out of 3 people have trouble with fractions
Angry Sheep	Posted - 2004.03.25 21:19:00 - [13] I suspect it has not ben changed, but rather a previous bug in tracking itself has been fixed... so now 1400 are doing what they were supposed to. I can't hit sh1t, but it is funny, then I get a diddy gun on and wham, the little npc frigates go blam.. any how now its the turn of a new weapopn to be uber, I supose its back round to blasters... It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
GardenerOfEden	Posted - 2004.03.26 01:06:00 - [14] This issue may also be linked to the bug fix for high level skills previously applying at level 1. What I am suspicious of is the way CCP has coded some bonuses to be negative numbers while others are positives - obviously if the algorithm in question makes a bonus adjustment in one direction but the bonus data has the opposite sign then the adjustment is in fact made in the wrong direction. This would explain the change in damage occurring now and why the feedback on this thread has been mixed ie because it depends upon the skills of the character in question. It would also mean that the same error could be occurring for other weapons it's just that the numbers for the 1400mm are larger hence the error is more pronounced and noticeable. Anyway just a thought - there may be something to it but we will never know unless a Developer with access to the code checks it and comments one way or the other ... EVE is a massive social experiment of human interaction facilitated by computer technology
ZeaL dRaGoN	Posted - 2004.03.26 04:46:00 - [15] Can confirm this, the dmg on my 1400mm dropped since the patch. My normal wreckings were around 1200-1300dmg, now i have hardly any wreckings above 1000dmg. Excellent and well aimed hits are far below my prepatch "normal" dmg.
Aelius	Posted - 2004.03.26 10:58:00 - [16] I read somewhere that they (ccp) were going to change the wreckning hits and the eventuality of them happening. I also read that they were going to change the "to hit" percentage, not only by speed of the target, but also due to the signature radius. I don't know if this was already applied because i'm out of eve right now but it might be this. PS: Don't quote me on this because i'm not certain cheers Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station
Star's Muppet	Posted - 2004.03.26 13:17:00 - [17] Quote: What changes were made to 1400mm's Projectiles on TQ? My best damage has dropped considerably. 10 Days ago, hits of 1300, wrecking shots while chaining about every 15-20 minutes. Do you think it was fair that you get wrecking hits of 1300 ? ... I personally don't. I got decent skills in Hybrids / BS level, and there is no way I can do that with 425 Railguns or Blasters. I've seen damage modifiers over 10 with just a few Gyrostabilizer II's and 1 Tracking Enhancer II, and to me, that's just unfair. The bloody guns take no cap, while my Blasters / 425's do, and all I do is ~200 normal damage, and somethimes wrecking hit's of ~ 350 max. So I'm glad you won't get that damage anymore, as it's unfair anyway ???
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2004.03.26 13:51:00 - [18] Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 26/03/2004 14:06:21 Quote: Is there any change in the info of your 1400's? I wonder if there is an unanounced adjustment. Not necessarily at the weapon but maybe at the ship bonus, skill bonus, or dmg/tacking mod bonus. who the hell can tell? 90% of the time the gun info doesn't show numbers that indicates it gives a flaming &$(@>!! about my skills, not to mention the persitent "i don't feel like using your modules either" bug. edit - it isn't size, at least not completely. Went to one of those still-inactive new scenario sites and locked up one of the great thumping huge silos. With various ammo types at various outside/at/inside Optimal ranges, never broke 500. More than 5-10k outside optimal misses a LOT, plus the added bonus of a plethora of "2.6" and "80" glancing blows. since yesterday was a disconnectfest i didn't get to test for too long. But i did notice that my fallofff range was not altered one bit, tho i have the skill for it. However, within 10k of optimal for ammotype, and with NO damage or tracking mods of any kind, hits were consistently in the 200 - 350 range (depending on ammotype). I am assuming the Silo provides either raw numbers or base "vs armor" but who knows. More misses than i would have liked, but also streaks of consistent 5-7 normal hits in a row at approx. 225 each. Am i annoyed that the days of the uber 1400s are done now that i'm trying a creative Tempest config? Well, yeah. I want a nice wrecking shot for my sig too ya know Would i rather they be reined in to other top-level guns rather than wait until the screaming masses causes an ubernerf? Hell yeah. And maybe combat can last 10 seconds longer now . Now that that's done, FIX THE SKILL AND MODULE BONUSES PLEASE. I didn't spend all this freakin' time on the damn things just to go into combat with the mistaken belief that i can hit something at X range, only to lose a ship to year-old bugs. Please get it sorted. and confirmation of a change would be nice. this ain't a Sanka commercial. You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
Star Nove	Posted - 2004.03.26 13:52:00 - [19] Edited by: Star Nove on 26/03/2004 13:53:29 Star's Muppet, you could be making alot more dmg with them (for instance try gettin your skills up), and of course 425 mm's fire a lot more rapidly, and hit more often. And the cap requirement has been reduced to almost nothing. -nove ------------------------- The great comic WDA
Star's Muppet	Posted - 2004.03.26 14:06:00 - [20] True, we (the Hybrid users) did got some lovin' , and I very much appreciate that. (especiallly on the less cap usage) ... I just think's it's strange that people do shots over 1000 damage (with one gun); while even a Torpedo does much much less... and missiles have a lot more factor's depending if it will hit the enemy or not (bumping to another object, running out of time, etc etc.) .
Mitram	Posted - 2004.03.26 16:14:00 - [21] Back to the topic: Can Polaris or a DEV confirm that there were changes/bugfixes in tacking and/or skills regarding tracking?
XpoHoc	Posted - 2004.03.26 16:59:00 - [22] My guess: TomB said that we will have a look on the tracking / optimal range / hitting formulas. He messed it up.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.03.26 19:38:00 - [23] If the 1400mm did get stealth nerfed, I think this is a good thing. On a Tempest it is much more powerful than most any other gun, sure the base stats on the 1400mm isn't very good, but the damage mod is very very high and the poor ROF can be compensated for. Compare a 1400mm to a Tachyon on an Apocalypse, kind of obvious which is better, and which gun is using 125 cap per shot and which is using 3 per shot? ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
foster	Posted - 2004.03.26 20:19:00 - [24] topics like this need the gm's to comment on!
Stomper	Posted - 2004.03.26 20:27:00 - [25] Edited by: Stomper on 26/03/2004 20:29:43 Something funky is going on, did some testing vs small rats (TQ) 2004.03.26 20:19:28combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I places an excellent hit on Blood Follower, inflicting 263.6 damage. 2004.03.26 20:12:14combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I hits Blood Follower, doing 177.1 damage. 2004.03.26 20:12:06combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I is well aimed at Blood Follower, inflicting 202.0 damage. Not one miss, but far less dmg than I used to be getting, this was within optimal, with EMP ammo. 1400 dmg mod is 8.85x, so normal hits on shields should be in the 275 range, no? edit: also got a wrecking of 220 last night vs npc rat
GFLTorque	Posted - 2004.03.26 22:41:00 - [26] Edited by: GFLTorque on 26/03/2004 22:45:23 Do you think it was fair that you get wrecking hits of 1300 ? ... I personally don't. I got decent skills in Hybrids / BS level, and there is no way I can do that with 425 Railguns or Blasters. I've seen damage modifiers over 10 with just a few Gyrostabilizer II's and 1 Tracking Enhancer II, and to me, that's just unfair. So I'm glad you won't get that damage anymore, as it's unfair anyway ???[end/quote] Yes, in the nearly 11 months I've been training my 10million + skill points with a focus on pvp, I think its totally fair. When you discuss modules ONLY in your reply, you leave out the Surgical Strike level V, I spent a month on and the other skills and time. Do you hear me complaining about how much ore per cycle you can suck out of a rock? 4 out of 3 people have trouble with fractions
Sun Sliver	Posted - 2004.03.26 23:08:00 - [27] BUMP ok devs lets hear it, whats up?
Left	Posted - 2004.03.26 23:54:00 - [28] Quote: More than 5-10k outside optimal misses a LOT, plus the added bonus of a plethora of "2.6" and "80" glancing blows. Was this the normal for 1400's? Im not sure how things are supposed to be but if this is new, it could be because they were acting abnormally before. I personally have never used 1400's so thats why I ask. 425s have a very severe drop off in hits after thier optimal. You can go 1k over optimal and doing huge amounts of 1.2 dmg scratches. It could be that they are trying to adjust 1400s some, and make the penalty after optimal more in line with other guns. Just my guess.
dalman	Posted - 2004.03.26 23:58:00 - [29] Quote: Edited by: Stomper on 26/03/2004 20:29:43 Something funky is going on, did some testing vs small rats (TQ) 2004.03.26 20:19:28combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I places an excellent hit on Blood Follower, inflicting 263.6 damage. 2004.03.26 20:12:14combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I hits Blood Follower, doing 177.1 damage. 2004.03.26 20:12:06combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I is well aimed at Blood Follower, inflicting 202.0 damage. Not one miss, but far less dmg than I used to be getting, this was within optimal, with EMP ammo. 1400 dmg mod is 8.85x, so normal hits on shields should be in the 275 range, no? edit: also got a wrecking of 220 last night vs npc rat BUT LOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLL A blood follower doesn't have more than 160 total hp, so you can't hit for more than 160 damage against them... You kill them in one shot. You can't do any testing on so small rats. Find a battleship to shoot at. And yes, 8.85x with EMP L against shield gives 285 as a normal hit. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Stomper	Posted - 2004.03.27 00:25:00 - [30] Quote: Quote: Edited by: Stomper on 26/03/2004 20:29:43 Something funky is going on, did some testing vs small rats (TQ) 2004.03.26 20:19:28combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I places an excellent hit on Blood Follower, inflicting 263.6 damage. 2004.03.26 20:12:14combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I hits Blood Follower, doing 177.1 damage. 2004.03.26 20:12:06combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I is well aimed at Blood Follower, inflicting 202.0 damage. Not one miss, but far less dmg than I used to be getting, this was within optimal, with EMP ammo. 1400 dmg mod is 8.85x, so normal hits on shields should be in the 275 range, no? edit: also got a wrecking of 220 last night vs npc rat BUT LOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLL A blood follower doesn't have more than 160 total hp, so you can't hit for more than 160 damage against them... You kill them in one shot. You can't do any testing on so small rats. Find a battleship to shoot at. And yes, 8.85x with EMP L against shield gives 285 as a normal hit. Absolutely correct, guess I shouldn't post when not having slept for 27 hrs

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