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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.01.26 12:23:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Saerdna16ID
The Level V learning skills on the advance learning skills is useless. When it requires 12 days to train it just to give you 1 single attribute its waste of time. Think about how much +1 attribute will save you in training? I bet way way way less. Like 10 - 15 min max lower on the skills.
IMO its useless keep it at level 4. I currently have all learning skills to level 4 except 3 of them to level 5 (the one it required only like 4 days to make level 5).
What CCP would have done is lets say add +2 on attributes on the advance learning skills if you have completed level 5. ATM they way it is now its useless.
It isn't "useless". It's a very marginal, long term investment as with most skills to level 5, but hardly useless. If you train the 2 stats that you're going to use the most to 5+5, you'll be in "profit" within 2 years, and many people have been playing longer than that. If when you start you want to be a carrier pilot, you're making a 2-year plan. If you're making 2-year plans, then Adv.5 skills should be considered.
No-one's forcing you to train them to 5+5, after all Make a decision and go with your choice. Just because YOU don't want to train them to 5+5 doesn't mean that no-one else should be able to.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Mioelnir
Minmatar
KULT Production
Guardian Federation
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Posted - 2008.01.26 12:25:00 -
[32]
Level 5 advanced learning skills are worth it if you want to have a decent learning rate even without implants. The ability to have that costs you time.
The ROI from a pure sp-amount view is bad at best.
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Jill Antaris
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Posted - 2008.01.26 12:56:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Jill Antaris on 26/01/2008 13:01:49
Edited by: Jill Antaris on 26/01/2008 13:00:00
Well I have them all at 5(ok I skiped Presense 5  for now) and +5 Imps it is realy nice. If you say it never pays off look from my point of view on it. You will loose 1.5 Month in the Start(about 12.5 Days eatch Advanced 4 to 5). So this is about 2.1 M SP you have more in Learning than the rest  . In 12 Month it will be only 1.4 M in 24 Month under a Mill SP. So no big deal. People allways complaining others are 3 years ahead but this is not true. They are 1.5-2 Month ahead and you will catch them in time and you can do a faster specialisation or get ahead when it comes to new Skills in the game.
Advanced Learnings 5 are a good thing if you have the time to do them(especialy in the beginning) and donŠt get bored of to soon. 
You can check this out if you are interested in the Math behind: Skills & Atributtes
Nerf Lasers!
Thay need far to less CPU and Grid to Fit.
Still using not enught Cap and do far to mutch Damage.
O wait... they allready did... =( |
Ursula LeGuinn
Versus Gloria Omnis
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Posted - 2008.01.26 13:10:00 -
[34]
Bottom line for Learning skills is this:
-- Everyone should train all Learning skills to IV as soon as they are able (unless you want to try and skip Charisma entirely; you can always just train it up later before you start a round of Social training).
-- If you want to make a medium-term investment, train some or all of the Rank 1 Learning skills to V. As a rule of thumb, they will have paid themselves off after about a year, after which it's pure profit.
-- If you want to make a long-term investment, you can go ahead and train some of the Rank 3 Learning skills to V. Note that these take three years to pay off as a rule of thumb, and may not be worth it considering the infinitesimal boost you get even after they have paid themselves off (you should have 40-50 million SP after three years if you were diligent, do you really care about an extra 10-20,000 per week, if that?).
________________
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Jane Spondogolo
NoobWaffe
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Posted - 2008.01.26 14:07:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Jane Spondogolo on 26/01/2008 14:07:37
Edited by: Jane Spondogolo on 26/01/2008 14:07:20
I'd really like to see SUPER-ADVANCED learning skills introduced. Even with all my stuff at basic V and advanced IV, some things are still just painful to train.
Because super-advanced learning skills, and a +5 set = Capships here I come baby.
______
Unrepentant Southern Federation Cheerleader.
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Hermosa Diosas
The-Secret-Service
Retribution.
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Posted - 2008.01.26 14:19:00 -
[36]
In alot of instances training level 5 is a total waste of time, think of it this way ive plugged in +4 implants and only made like a coupe of hours difference, so what do you think 1 extra attribute to level 5 does? not a lot.
thats the problem if it was exponential to the level then it would be worth it, like each level gives you the same number of atrribute points back like level 5 gives you 5 points. But it doesnt the time goes up exponentially but the reward doesnt infact the more it goes up the less you seem to actully benefit. However the only time is really does benefit if you are going to train OTHER skills to level 5 as this then takes a decent chunk off but still maybe only a day or so. Unless your truly gong to specialise then for the beginning just train upto level 4 and buy implants.
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Richard Phallus
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Posted - 2008.01.26 14:25:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo
I'd really like to see SUPER-ADVANCED learning skills introduced. Even with all my stuff at basic V and advanced IV, some things are still just painful to train.
Because super-advanced learning skills, and a +5 set = Capships here I come baby.
Super-Advanced learning skills should be rank 128 at least, and have primary stat as charisma. |
Raiz N'Hell
Gallente
Deep Space Ventures
Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2008.01.26 16:47:00 -
[38]
I have played long enough that the basics had to be at 5 to train the advanced. Guess we got gipped.
I formally request that CCP Refund us the 20 Days worth of lost training time for useless skills!
_________________________________
CEO of DeepSpaceVentures
Mining/Industry/PVP/PVE
3+ Mil SP Good Space in Querious Region
Multiple systems to rat and play in. |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.01.26 17:08:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Steve HawkingsYou think i care ?
Everytime you talk like this you get laughed at soo hard by normal people reading these forums.
talk about geek speak[/quote
You're not too good at this are you?
I suggest you take some lessons.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Ishtar1
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.26 17:16:00 -
[40]
its is worth it if you get 2 stats for the price of one imo
atm with +3s and adv 4 i get like 18.70 memory if i had +5s and adv5 in memory i would have 22 insted of 21 due to the atribute points being * by 1.10 (im bad at explaining things  )
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Trepkos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.01.26 17:46:00 -
[41]
Where is the math coming from this 3 yrs to pay off theory?
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Raxxius Maelstrom
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Posted - 2008.01.26 17:49:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Kaar Tath
Edited by: Kaar Tath on 25/01/2008 22:03:23
Edited by: Kaar Tath on 25/01/2008 21:58:07
Edited by: Kaar Tath on 25/01/2008 21:44:30
Where does the 3 years come from 4 months maybe, to learn all learning skills to lvl V takes 172 Days, less if you do it in the right order, then put in +3 implants for everything and knock of 32 days plus from that.
Just ran it through EVEMon.
training for battleship III without skills 28 days 19 hrs - with skills 10 days 16 hours.
for large railgun specialisation pre skill 373 days with training 138 days
so just those 2 save 250 days
Right, but that's not the question, Recalculate for lvl 4 learning skills vs lvl 5.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.01.26 18:21:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Trepkos
Where is the math coming from this 3 yrs to pay off theory?
Assuming that +1 stat = ~5% faster training time
If it takes 4x12.5 days to get the Adv INT/PERC/WILL/MEM skills to 5 then it will take about 4x12.5x20=1000 days to show a 'skillpoint profit'. That's a little less than 3 years. The exact payoff time depends on what your actual stats are, what implants you use, etc.
As I mentioned above, if you just train the 2 stats you use most then your breakeven point is much less than 3 years.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
SiJira
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Posted - 2008.01.26 19:16:00 -
[44]
if you will quit eve in 5 months they may be useless but if you plan to keep playing indefinitely then why not have them all train faster?
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Kaar Tath
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.26 21:52:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Kaar Tath on 26/01/2008 21:53:38
Raxxius - the learning time I quoted is for ALL skills to lvl V - just do the ones for ships/guns etc still work to train to V
NO you cannot have my stuff - go away |
insidion
Caldari
Last of the Technocracy
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.01.26 23:08:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ogul
Edited by: Ogul on 26/01/2008 11:31:32
Originally by: insidion
As an example, it takes me 24d 4h to do logistics 6, approxomately a 1.3m sp investment from L5.
Someone petition this cheater for training a skill to level 6!
LMAO, oh my what an oversight. Obviously what I *meant* to say was logistics 5 from L4 and was noting that it was a rank 6 skill. Thanks for catching that one. ;)
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Rangkai
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Posted - 2008.01.27 06:34:00 -
[47]
Buy a set of +5 implants before training your advanced learning skills to 5.. it will save you a bit more time.
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insidion
Caldari
Last of the Technocracy
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.01.27 06:50:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Rangkai
Buy a set of +5 implants before training your advanced learning skills to 5.. it will save you a bit more time.
Only problem with this is that of course you have to train cyber 5 first, but again I swear you won't regret it. Let's you use any implant in the game, so it's a nice one to get out of the way early. =)
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Ponderous Thunderstroke
Republic War Machine Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.27 07:05:00 -
[49]
Rank 1's to L4
Learning to L4
Rank 3's to L4
Learning to L5
Rank 1's to L5
Never train any learning skill again.
That's the way it was taught to me, at least.
--
"PT, you are a complete and total jerk."
Yes. Yes I am.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.01.27 07:06:00 -
[50]
well I got them all to level 5 so I'll see you all in my dust! hahahaha.
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fgervais
Caldari
Ass Pirates
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Posted - 2008.01.27 07:14:00 -
[51]
Evemon paths
Target Cybernetics I, accept learning skills suggestions.
Train, plug in +3 set.
Target Cybernetics V, accept learning skills suggestions.
Train, plug in +5 set.
Round off any other training skills.
Done.
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MysticNZ
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2008.01.27 08:35:00 -
[52]
Someone worked it out along time ago. You wont see the benefit for around 3 years. I laughed at that, but now this is my 4th year :|
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Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2008.01.27 08:53:00 -
[53]
If you already trained them, theyre far from useless. If youre looking to train them, its sort of a matter of personal choice...more skills now, or more skills in the future.
_________________
[IMAGE REMOVED]
-- aka Cpt Bogus --
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.01.27 09:25:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Andrue on 27/01/2008 09:28:29
Originally by: Malcanis
It isn't "useless". It's a very marginal, long term investment as with most skills to level 5, but hardly useless. If you train the 2 stats that you're going to use the most to 5+5, you'll be in "profit" within 2 years, and many people have been playing longer than that.
/me raises his hand. Even the alt on my second account is older than that.
--
(Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.01.27 09:30:00 -
[55]
After using evemon to design a bunch of specialized character (a specialized level 4 mission runner, specialized miner, specialized production character, trader, etc) ive found that for these sorts of characters you can usually accomplish everything you are wanting to using only basics and advanced to 4 (some times with certain advanced skills only going up to 3! =P)
Moral is, there is no one rule for everyone. Only what would make it faster for you to get where you want to go. If where you want to go is 'everywhere' then max all of them, they will pay off eventualy.
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Arana Tellen
Gallente
The Blackguard Wolves
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2008.01.27 11:14:00 -
[56]
To start "gaining" in the sense of having skills rather than raw skillpoint counts you must actually have an extra skill equal to learning V each one you train since if you had not trained learning V but some other useful skill those SP would be in something "useful".
---------------------------------
Oh noes! |
Hellspawn666
Minmatar
Master Miners
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Posted - 2008.01.27 11:40:00 -
[57]
Was worth it for me wel A because im 3 years+ old and B becuase the time i spent training learning skills i had nothing else i needed to train since the new content i wanted to train wasnt released yet. So it depends on your situation tbh. However i wouldnt recommend doing lvl 5's straight out its the kinda thing at the bottom of the priority training list but its still on the list IMO.
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Ris Dnalor
Minmatar
Ama-gi
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Posted - 2008.01.28 10:17:00 -
[58]
the Advanced Learning skills USED TO REQUIRE the basic learning skills to be trained to level 5. In another boost for the newer players, CCP decided to lower that requirement to level 4. so now it makes sense to at least start training the adv. learning skills before you take the basic ones from 4 to 5. that was not the case before though, so that's why the advice has changed. welcome to eve. nothing stays the same for long.
tralala
--
No love for the Matari |
Shevar
Minmatar
A.W.M
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.01.28 12:38:00 -
[59]
If you intend to play for a year to two years and want to reach as high ammount of usuable SP then the 6 basic learning skills are worth it to get to level5, as well as cybernetics 4 for +4 implants.
If you are intent on playing 6+ years then the advanced learnings will pay off as well.
That being said I would never tell someone to focus on learning skills till he is comfortable in a battlecruiser, what is the point of being ahead in 1 1/2 years time if you get bored of the game after 6 weeks?
---
-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.01.28 13:32:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Shevar
If you intend to play for a year to two years and want to reach as high ammount of usuable SP then the 6 basic learning skills are worth it to get to level5, as well as cybernetics 4 for +4 implants.
If you are intent on playing 6+ years then the advanced learnings will pay off as well.
That being said I would never tell someone to focus on learning skills till he is comfortable in a battlecruiser, what is the point of being ahead in 1 1/2 years time if you get bored of the game after 6 weeks?
Some people (eg: me) just like the idea of improving my character's potential.
Some people (eg: me) realised that they were utterly hooked on EvE within a few minutes of starting to play and consequently made long term plans. I didn't finish the last of my 5+4 set (Learning 5) until about 3.5 months after I started to play (I was ratting in a Raven by then), but I had 5+3s trained very early on.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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