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Paragon Renegade
Wyvern Operations
243
   |
Posted - 2012.02.12 20:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ohai
Being disgustingly rich and having nothing else to work towards, would you recommend getting a Loki for PvP? Possibly a Tengu as well, but I was leaning towards a Loki.
Is it any good? Worth it over BS'? etc
I love the allure of getting the most advanced things in the game, barring Titans and supercapital ships
The pie is a tautology |
Sprite Can
25
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Posted - 2012.02.12 20:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
PVP is a pretty vague term for this question. What exactly are you taking part in?
Refreshing Lemon-Lime~ |
Paragon Renegade
Wyvern Operations
243
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 20:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Smashing people in lowsec, usually solo or a small gang
The pie is a tautology |
stoicfaux
749
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 20:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
If you want to forum PvP, then I would say the Tengu is better as in "omgz! nerf teh tengu! noaw!"
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Zimmy Zeta
Battle Force Industries
Tactical Invader Syndicate
821
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 20:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Not a specialist in t3 cruisers here, but a Tengu would be a very good choice if you are filthy rich and can afford to lose a bunch of them.
It is an expensive ship, so people will try to attack it for tears-extraction.
It is often used by carebears, so people will expect an easy fight and are even more likely to engage you in lowsec.
-.- |
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
449
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 20:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm told cloaky Loki is good at popping unsuspecting frigates traveling in lowsec *whistles innocently* |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
312
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 20:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Go with the Tengu.
Loki has the same issue every Minmatar ship has.....POWER deficiency. Also, put on the Interdiction Nullifier and you have an utterly useless Loki.
I use mine for Uber-Probing (lol) and then bring in the Tengu.
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Cybus Max
Bite me inc.
Exhale.
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 20:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
yes loki is VERY good for pvp in fact they all are i mean please just feel the pull of interdictor nullification there not as good as they sound lol |
Kessiaan
Greater Order Of Destruction
Happy Endings
62
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Posted - 2012.02.12 20:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Its your money, but I value cost effectiveness over raw power.
A T3 is really good if you have a good fit and know what you're doing, but you explode 20 hurricanes (or drakes) for the cost of a single T3. A great ship isn't worth much if you're not willing to engage with it except in fights you're already 100% sure to win.
My killboard - http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Kessiaan |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
804
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 20:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Ohai
Being disgustingly rich and having nothing else to work towards, would you recommend getting a Loki for PvP? Possibly a Tengu as well, but I was leaning towards a Loki.
Is it any good? Worth it over BS'? etc
I love the allure of getting the most advanced things in the game, barring Titans and supercapital ships
Tengu: many blahblah about this ship but let me tell you what I think knowing I use thoe in a regular basis pvp/pve
100MN AB pvp tengu you want it buffer for regular pvp basis and the only faction mods worthy to invest are disruptor web and AB.
Active tanking one will require a lot more isk investment but it's nothing to fly with if you don't have enough experience.
Overall it's the most fragile of them if you don't know what you are doing with and requires TOP SKILLS, everything under 5 means you increase your death chances by a big margin.
Loki is the one you want in a regular pvp basis, with good skills is already something awesome to use with top skills it's just an incredible tool and requires you to invest in a good AB/MWD and webs, everything else go for T2.
For pvp loki is clearly above Tengu but requires some choices like a good mix of rapier/cyna, if you ever want to play it all gank like just buy cynas, if you want to play it defensive/offensive then buy rapiers.
Loki is the extreme pvp killing machine if you know what you are doing and have the proper fit/mods. |
Paragon Renegade
Wyvern Operations
243
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 21:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thanks for the input! :D
What about the Legion and Proteus? I never see them, and they're never mentioned anywhere
The pie is a tautology |
ElQuirko
Gravit Negotii
367
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 21:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Thanks for the input! :D
What about the Legion and Proteus? I never see them, and they're never mentioned anywhere
The Proteus is an absolutely beautiful boat for highsec and wormhole warfare. These are my experiences of it - I can see no reason why it would not excel in lowsec as well, except maybe for becoming helpless when stranded off gates and unable to hit anything. The buffer it sports is rivalled only by the Damnation in subcap warfare, but the damnation's lack of DPS makes it a lesser ship when fighting the Proteus. This is from the experience of fighting a damnation - My 1000DPS vs. his 100 DPS. Despite the fact I had 1/3rd the buffer he did, he was melting 10x faster than me. In the end, he called RR and I docked.
This is another thing - undocks are the main preserve of the proteus. If you like highsec war, great. In nullsec, any T3 is useless, and I'm sure that in low the others excel. However, I will fight the proteus' corner all the same.
If we distribute pictures of people, does that mean God can file copyright claims under SOPA? |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
804
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 21:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
I wouldn't be honest if i'd forget to say I didn't used any Proteus since last patch mainly because I don't have that much of occasions where I can use it.
Proteus is Gallente and as such has tremendous drawbacks for little to no advantage:
-Big buffer for sure everyone will tell you that but just a slow brick like every gallente hull, excellent as extreme heavy tackle provided you have at least one Oneiros at your ass, Guardian better because energy remote increases your survability by almost 100%
-of all T3's Proteus is the one that can push the most incredible dps out of it's hull, and probably garmon that is a known excellent solo pvp player for using extreme hulls/fits could probably say it better than me.
The numbers are there, with the same hull in a single version you get out of it these raw numbers:
-120 to 200k EHP starting by T2 fit to faction fit (officer it's just an insane 450k EHP cruiser hull if you add on top slaves set)
-with top gunnery/subs/hull/drones you get out of it from 1K to 1.5K dps starting by T2 fit to faction fit, officer it's just insane.
Now these are just numbers you can pull out of EFT/Pyfa, in reality it's another story:
-cap stability just close to unexistant or only with a lot of faction mods or lol fit.
-dmg selection fixed
-dmg range application slighly increased after ast changes but still under the bridge compared with Loki/Legion short range
-slot layout not adapted, subs slots bonus is not good at all
-sniping sub missing +1 high slot +1 hard point -1 low slot
-drones sub...just lol re lol mega lol and hard core lol?
The points above don't mean this ship is total crap, look at the numbers they're "wow. But ti's ONLY another gate/undock elite pvp'rs tool or a rather medium exploration ship. Out of this, with is about 98% the rest of the game this ship is just an expensive coffin for your toon.
Legion I can't fly those yet so, mouth shut for me I can't have an opinion about other than what some friends tell me about.
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Liam Mirren
253
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Posted - 2012.02.12 21:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Honestly, I wouldn't bother with it until you have a well informed plan and idea that requires a T3. Most of them aren't any good at running missions and the tengu isn't as good as the hype folks will try and make you believe. Don't start PVPing in expensive ships expecting them to help you get kills, they won't. They'll just look nasty on your killboard when you do lose them.
Start cheap, start simple. PVP is more about what you know that what ship you fly.
Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1230
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 22:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
I have seen T3 ships single-handedly take down entire gate camps.
True story.
|
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1349
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 22:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sounds like a good idea ! :)
Especially the "smashing people in lowsec" part.
They'll be TOTALLY unprepared ! I'm sure about that !
Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 00:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Did CCP remove the SP loss when you loose a T3? I can think of better things to PvP in than a ship that is going to lobotimize you if you get ganked. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
338
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 01:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
I use a cloaky nullified tengu when I want to go check out something in nullsec and don't want to be hassled along the way. Gate to gate you are untouchable. That's all I care to use it for though.
PL has some insainly good Tengu pilots. They use them to great success in PvP... so it is a viable PvP ship.
Personally though, I would go with something cheaper for just roaming around solo. I have the extra dime to get a bunch of Tengus, but solo PvP is a lot different than having a few corp mates with you. The best I can do I do with an Onyx. (The Broadsword is also excellent) With a HIC, you really maximize versatility in that all your mids are pretty much free since you have an infini point high so you can pull out all kinds of weird asymmetric attacks with EW, speed, or tank in particular. If I could have 5 small drones w/ my onyx I would neverfly anything else (for PvP). They are a little pricy too though... and there's nothing wrong with a BC. ....and now I'm thinking about awesome frig fits. Where this is going is for the price of a tengu you can fit a nice variety and volume of ships instead that will give you a lot more bang for your buck and keep things fresh. I therefor advise against T3 as a solo PvPer unless you have a lot of isk to burn and don't give a snip. However, if that's the case, why you even askin'? 
|
Ocih
Space Mermaids
Somethin Awfull Forums
80
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 01:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I have seen T3 ships single-handedly take down entire gate camps.
True story.
I did that in a Zealot once too. 10 guys ran like girls. Of course the last time that saw me I was in a 120 man fleet. There was no way they could have known I had left it.
As for T3 someone else pointed out, you lose a substystem if it pops. So say you have them all to 4, thats just under 2 days to get it back.
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Ai Shun
262
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Posted - 2012.02.13 02:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:What about the Legion and Proteus? I never see them, and they're never mentioned anywhere
I have no idea. But after asking in New Player Help about T3 cruisers and the like I ended up with one Legion in my asset list with subsystems that I have no intention to use and that I cannot and will not fly. I'm willing to sell it cheaply if anyone is after one of those  |
Neoexecutor
Skynet Technologies
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 02:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
From what i have read on these forums previously written by people with good knowledge on Loki, it seems that Loki excels in certain areas of pvp such as extremely fast locking + tackling speeds that can be achieved on that hull and also it's rather unique ability to get 30+km range webs that are very important in certain pvp engagements.
My own experience with Loki is PvE only. It's a decent ship that can run lvl 4s but not anywhere close to Vargur in efficiency. Best usage i found for my pve Loki was scanning/site clearing ship all-in-one. |
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
731
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 03:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
If you really were 'disgustingly rich' then you'd already have at least two or three T3 cruisers gathering dust in some hangar.
At best, you could be described as above the plebs.
84,000 AUR ($420) spent on NeX store for Troll and Profit. |
Roosterton
Syndicalis Immortalis
324
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 03:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Did CCP remove the SP loss when you loose a T3? I can think of better things to PvP in than a ship that is going to lobotimize you if you get ganked.
Eject when it becomes apparent that you're going down and you won't lose SP.
Alternatively, man up and accept that 4 days of training time (at most) isn't really worth a big fuss. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
400
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 04:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:Thanks for the input! :D
What about the Legion and Proteus? I never see them, and they're never mentioned anywhere The Proteus is an absolutely beautiful boat for highsec and wormhole warfare. These are my experiences of it - I can see no reason why it would not excel in lowsec as well, except maybe for becoming helpless when stranded off gates and unable to hit anything. The buffer it sports is rivalled only by the Damnation in subcap warfare, but the damnation's lack of DPS makes it a lesser ship when fighting the Proteus. This is from the experience of fighting a damnation - My 1000DPS vs. his 100 DPS. Despite the fact I had 1/3rd the buffer he did, he was melting 10x faster than me. In the end, he called RR and I docked. This is another thing - undocks are the main preserve of the proteus. If you like highsec war, great. In nullsec, any T3 is useless, and I'm sure that in low the others excel. However, I will fight the proteus' corner all the same.
Will add that I have a cloaky Proteus with 650DPS and a 120K tank. You'll not find another cloaky T3 with both that DPS and tank.
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
780
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 05:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:In nullsec, any T3 is useless
 
A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Gnidex
Eclectic Electric
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 10:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:What about the Legion and Proteus? I never see them, and they're never mentioned anywhere
If you want to venture into lowsec/null go with the proteus or loki since they both can do some nice dps even with the covert ops subsystem (especially the proteus). A tengu is a fine choice aswell, but be sure to avoid the legion since it's only good for shiny incursion fleets. Hands down it's covert ops subsystem isn't up to par (cap use bonus lulz) and it could really use another low or mid slot.
In short, the legion is a vastly overpriced zealot with some more tank.
|
Tore Vest
207
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 11:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ask AAA about tengus..
They love that thing....
and hardly loose any of them.... 
Highsec carebear... and proud of it |
Fredfredbug4
Kings of Kill
EVE Animal Control
41
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 11:10:00 -
[28] - Quote
For whatever you do a T3 cruiser is always worth the investment.
Which T3 cruiser you invest in is largely based on what you hope to do with it as there are so many ways to use each one.
|
2bhammered
Perkone
Caldari State
65
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 11:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Thanks for the input! :D
What about the Legion and Proteus? I never see them, and they're never mentioned anywhere
Legion is a great PVE ship.
for PVP I would not use a t3 ship at all. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 11:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:What about the Legion and Proteus? I never see them, and they're never mentioned anywhere I have no idea. But after asking in New Player Help about T3 cruisers and the like I ended up with one Legion in my asset list with subsystems that I have no intention to use and that I cannot and will not fly. I'm willing to sell it cheaply if anyone is after one of those
Legion is nice as an expensive, big Zealot - use it as anything else and it disappoints.
especially the cap bonus on the covert subsystem (as opposed to a damage bonus) is a huge problem for the legion. |
Mr Floydy
The Xenodus Initiative.
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 12:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
Legion's are awesome for wormholes, same with Proteus. They can both fit for high resists and large buffer to be kept alive by logistics and can be very useful to a fleet. Proteus just by putting out immense dps for its mass, and the Legion has 2 nice options for it too:
HAM + bonused neuts - pulls out decent dps with choice of damage type, great passive resist profile and pretty fast and mobile for an armour tanker. Alternatively fit with the tactical targetting sub and lasers and melt frigates ;)
For what the OP wants though, I'd run with something cheaper due to the joyful blob nature of lowsec half the time :p |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
313
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 12:13:00 -
[32] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Did CCP remove the SP loss when you loose a T3? I can think of better things to PvP in than a ship that is going to lobotimize you if you get ganked.
The WORST outcome is only losing one of the Level 5's which is only a 3 1/2 day train. So the f*** what ? You think THAT's painful or something ?? Sheesh............
If it were a Rank 8 Level 5 and a MONTH to train that would be another story, but I mean really...........................
Honestly CCP should up the Rank of all 5 Subsystem skills to at least an 8 - 12 day Level 5. Would cut down at least a bit on the abusive useless uses to which these ships are forced to perform by idiots.
These ships are WAY too easy to get into for what they are.
OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM !
God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
ElQuirko
Gravit Negotii
369
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 13:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
The WORST outcome is only losing one of the Level 5's which is only a 3 1/2 day train. So the f*** what ? You think THAT's painful or something ?? Sheesh............
If it were a Rank 8 Level 5 and a MONTH to train that would be another story, but I mean really...........................
Honestly CCP should up the Rank of all 5 Subsystem skills to at least an 8 - 12 day Level 5. Would cut down at least a bit on the abusive useless uses to which these ships are forced to perform by idiots.
These ships are WAY too easy to get into for what they are.
But then what would happen to the market of selling 4mil SP toons for 3x their value due to the fact they have the basic tengu skills? :OOO
If we distribute pictures of people, does that mean God can file copyright claims under SOPA? |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
783
|
Posted - 2012.02.14 00:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:For whatever you do a T3 cruiser is always worth the investment.
Which T3 cruiser you invest in is largely based on what you hope to do with it as there are so many ways to use each one.
Not true. For most roles, they are ISK inefficient. In a few, they are optimal.
A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Selinate
650
|
Posted - 2012.02.14 02:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
Legion is pretty good with a very specific set of subsystems.
Outside of those subsystems it's ****. |
SpaceSquirrels
263
|
Posted - 2012.02.14 03:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
No they spread lies... Just jump in a carrier and dread alt pair....and one ceptor. |
Nex apparatu5
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
207
|
Posted - 2012.02.14 03:59:00 -
[37] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Ohai
Being disgustingly rich and having nothing else to work towards, would you recommend getting a Loki for PvP? Possibly a Tengu as well, but I was leaning towards a Loki.
Is it any good? Worth it over BS'? etc
I love the allure of getting the most advanced things in the game, barring Titans and supercapital ships
You're clearly not disgustingly rich. I buy ships I can't even fly for fun, and I wouldn't consider myself disgustingly rich.
If you were disgustingly rich, you post would read I bought 3 faction-fitted lokis, can I pvp in them? |
Ai Shun
264
|
Posted - 2012.02.14 04:25:00 -
[38] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Ai Shun wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:What about the Legion and Proteus? I never see them, and they're never mentioned anywhere I have no idea. But after asking in New Player Help about T3 cruisers and the like I ended up with one Legion in my asset list with subsystems that I have no intention to use and that I cannot and will not fly. I'm willing to sell it cheaply if anyone is after one of those Legion is nice as an expensive, big Zealot - use it as anything else and it disappoints. especially the cap bonus on the covert subsystem (as opposed to a damage bonus) is a huge problem for the legion.
Yes, there was a contract in Jita for a very low price for a fitted Legion. Being a total ignoramus around T3 cruisers, I checked the price of the sub-systems and the hull; which was a good 500m ISK above the price on the contract. I asked in New Player Help if you could remove the sub-systems and re-use them; the answer was yes. (Presumably you can with skills? I don't know)
But I purchased it with the intent to break it down into components and sell it. Needless to say, I couldn't and had put half that trade accounts' net worth into the purchase. Said fuckit, dropped it back in a contract for a couple of hundred million ISK more and logged in 10 minutes ago to find it sold after almost 10 days.
Le-phew. |
Selinate
650
|
Posted - 2012.02.14 05:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:Ai Shun wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:What about the Legion and Proteus? I never see them, and they're never mentioned anywhere I have no idea. But after asking in New Player Help about T3 cruisers and the like I ended up with one Legion in my asset list with subsystems that I have no intention to use and that I cannot and will not fly. I'm willing to sell it cheaply if anyone is after one of those Legion is nice as an expensive, big Zealot - use it as anything else and it disappoints. especially the cap bonus on the covert subsystem (as opposed to a damage bonus) is a huge problem for the legion. Yes, there was a contract in Jita for a very low price for a fitted Legion. Being a total ignoramus around T3 cruisers, I checked the price of the sub-systems and the hull; which was a good 500m ISK above the price on the contract. I asked in New Player Help if you could remove the sub-systems and re-use them; the answer was yes. (Presumably you can with skills? I don't know) But I purchased it with the intent to break it down into components and sell it. Needless to say, I couldn't and had put half that trade accounts' net worth into the purchase. Said fuckit, dropped it back in a contract for a couple of hundred million ISK more and logged in 10 minutes ago to find it sold after almost 10 days. Le-phew.
It was probably because you got a legion with the **** subsystems fit like I was talking about earlier. The legion is only really good with a certain set of them. Outside of that set of subsystems, demand is next to nil since they're really not good at all... |
Ai Shun
264
|
Posted - 2012.02.14 08:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
Selinate wrote:It was probably because you got a legion with the **** subsystems fit like I was talking about earlier. The legion is only really good with a certain set of them. Outside of that set of subsystems, demand is next to nil since they're really not good at all...
I'm guessing it wasn't all too bad as I made a 200m ISK profit off it (Less the taxes). Of course, I was hoping for a 700m one; but still! |
Ptraci
StoneWall Metals Productions
Bloodbound.
322
|
Posted - 2012.02.14 11:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
Being able to almost insta-lock people with a proteus sounds nice. |
knobber Jobbler
Seniors Clan
Get Off My Lawn
30
|
Posted - 2012.02.14 13:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
I'd start with a Rifter. Buying a t3 and then going to look for pvp with no experience means you're just a really nice kill mail for the first person to find and tackle you. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
2928
|
Posted - 2012.02.14 14:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:I'd start with a Rifter. Buying a t3 and then going to look for pvp with no experience means you're just a really nice kill mail for the first person to find and tackle you.
Agreed.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic
Tragedy.
1054
|
Posted - 2012.02.14 14:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
100MN Afterburner Tengu.
That is all.
EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
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