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Ecnav Gallente The Hate Foundation.	Posted - 2008.01.29 21:59:00 - [1] Edited by: Ecnav on 29/01/2008 21:59:56 Edited by: Ecnav on 29/01/2008 21:59:27 If matter can neither be created or destroyed, what made the universe? Even the Big Bang theory begins with the fact that a huge, dense, and hot object was all the universe was in the beginning, and that something caused it to explode. Well what the heck caused that huge object to form? __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ A ship while docked is safe... But that isn't what ships were made for.
Joseph 9 Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:01:00 - [2] Internally self consistent quantum fluctuation with a net enegy of zero. Happy now?
Calderio Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:01:00 - [3] The Flying Spaghetti Monster Click The Power Of BOB Compells you
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:01:00 - [4] Answer: No one knows. No, seriously. We have no idea, though there are a few theories floating around. Unfortunately we won't be able to test any of these theories for a couple thousand years. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Dark Shikari Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:10:00 - [5] Hint: gravity is negative energy (due to the fact that it takes energy to leave a gravitational field). Hint 2: the total positive energy of an object is equivalent to the negative energy of its gravitational field. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Last Wolf Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:11:00 - [6] This is why religions and beliefs of God(s) is so common around the world. There are so many things that science can't explain, but a "Higher Power" could.
Last Wolf Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:12:00 - [7] Originally by: Dark Shikari Hint: gravity is negative energy (due to the fact that it takes energy to leave a gravitational field). Hint 2: the total positive energy of an object is equivalent to the negative energy of its gravitational field. I dunno about that. I know a lot of depressing/lazy fat people. Depending on how you interpret "Positive Energy"
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:16:00 - [8] Currently about the earliest cosmologists can speculate on is about 10^-43 seconds after the big bang went bang. This is known as the Planck Epoch and represents the smallest timeslice measurable. In reality theorizing even back to that moment is dicey at best but with today's knowledge that seems to be a hard limit. While that is a very teeny moment post big bang it seems to place a hard limit on looking past it to the big bang singularity itself. As mentioned there are some theories. While those theories are informed by what we know today they really are just educated guesses at this point. No one knows exactly. Also realize that thinking back to "before" the big bang is meaningless for us. Space and indeed time itself were born at the moment of the big bang. There is no "before" so describing it is literally impossible for us (would be like asking what is north of the north pole).
Orgos Khenn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:19:00 - [9] Maybe it was formed by the crunch of the last universe collapsing on itself. ---- In before Jonny JoJo turns this into an Amarr whine
Last Wolf Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:29:00 - [10] Edited by: Last Wolf on 29/01/2008 22:29:27 Big Bang theory is crap TBH. Last time i lit a fire*****er I didn't get a universe. Even Darwin noted how it was nearly mathematically impossible for an eye to be made from evolution, not to mention reproducing that eye in nearly every living animal that lives above ground. Not to mention, That there is a certain matter that behaves differently than all other matter on earth. and without this ONE.. I repeat this ONE exception out of all the other millions of molecular structures life would not exist. Water EXPANDS as it gets colder, not denser. If it wasn't for this, ice would sink, and rivers, oceans, and lakes would freeze from the bottom up, killing the organisms that produce 75% of the oxygen on Earth. That is way more than just coincidence. edit: crac\|<er is censored? LOL
Joseph 9 Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:29:00 - [11] Originally by: Dark Shikari Hint: gravity is negative energy (due to the fact that it takes energy to leave a gravitational field). Hint 2: the total positive energy of an object is equivalent to the negative energy of its gravitational field. Isn't that what I said... and what happens to items with negative charge. Anyway it's probably wrong as the expansion of the universe is accelerating which implies it has to have a positive net energy in some way.
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:31:00 - [12] There is a perfectly logical explanation. Unfortunately it is not observable from our position. EVE CCG Trinity Booster
Joseph 9 Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:31:00 - [13] Originally by: Last Wolf Edited by: Last Wolf on 29/01/2008 22:29:27 Big Bang theory is crap TBH. Last time i lit a fire***er I didn't get a universe. Even Darwin noted how it was nearly mathematically impossible for an eye to be made from evolution, not to mention reproducing that eye in nearly every living animal that lives above ground.** Not to mention, That there is a certain matter that behaves differently than all other matter on earth. and without this ONE.. I repeat this ONE exception out of all the other millions of molecular structures life would not exist. Water EXPANDS as it gets colder, not denser. If it wasn't for this, ice would sink, and rivers, oceans, and lakes would freeze from the bottom up, killing the organisms that produce 75% of the oxygen on Earth. That is way more than just coincidence. edit: crac\|<er is censored? LOL And I'm afraid I'm going to get scientific on your ass here. Reference for the bolded text please.
Dark Shikari Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:35:00 - [14] Originally by: Last Wolf Not to mention, That there is a certain matter that behaves differently than all other matter on earth. and without this ONE.. I repeat this ONE exception out of all the other millions of molecular structures life would not exist. Water EXPANDS as it gets colder, not denser. If it wasn't for this, ice would sink, and rivers, oceans, and lakes would freeze from the bottom up, killing the organisms that produce 75% of the oxygen on Earth. That is way more than just coincidence. Anthropic principle. If the universe wasn't created in such a way as to allow life to exist, we wouldn't be here, and therefore nobody would be around to ask "why are we here?" Therefore, it is stupid to wonder "why does the universe have just the right physical properties to allow life?" If it didn't, we wouldn't be here to ask the question. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Last Wolf Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:36:00 - [15] Originally by: Joseph 9 Originally by: Last Wolf Edited by: Last Wolf on 29/01/2008 22:29:27 Big Bang theory is crap TBH. Last time i lit a fire***er I didn't get a universe. Even Darwin noted how it was nearly mathematically impossible for an eye to be made from evolution, not to mention reproducing that eye in nearly every living animal that lives above ground.** Not to mention, That there is a certain matter that behaves differently than all other matter on earth. and without this ONE.. I repeat this ONE exception out of all the other millions of molecular structures life would not exist. Water EXPANDS as it gets colder, not denser. If it wasn't for this, ice would sink, and rivers, oceans, and lakes would freeze from the bottom up, killing the organisms that produce 75% of the oxygen on Earth. That is way more than just coincidence. edit: crac\|<er is censored? LOL And I'm afraid I'm going to get scientific on your ass here. Reference for the bolded text please. First link of a google search. http://www.carm.org/evo_questions/darwineye.htm As it goes on to explain, it seems I too had seen the quote out-of-context and remembered it as such. Still my last point still stands.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:37:00 - [16] Originally by: Last Wolf Edited by: Last Wolf on 29/01/2008 22:29:27 Big Bang theory is crap TBH. Last time i lit a fire***er I didn't get a universe. Wow, you aren't really familiar with the actual theory, are you? Quote: Even Darwin noted how it was nearly mathematically impossible for an eye to be made from evolution, not to mention reproducing that eye in nearly every living animal that lives above ground. 1. Entirely different and unrelated theory 2. Eyes did not evolve instantly, primitive multi-celled organisms had light-sensitive organs that could determine their vertical orientation in an ocean. Eventually these organs evolved and became concave and more accurate, allowing creatures to detect movement changes in light. Quote:** Not to mention, That there is a certain matter that behaves differently than all other matter on earth. and without this ONE.. I repeat this ONE exception out of all the other millions of molecular structures life would not exist. Water EXPANDS as it gets colder, not denser. If it wasn't for this, ice would sink, and rivers, oceans, and lakes would freeze from the bottom up, killing the organisms that produce 75% of the oxygen on Earth. That's because water, when it freezes, crystallizes. It's not by magic or anything, and plenty of other materials do the same thing. However, none of those materials are liquid above at temperatures common on Earth's surface. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:39:00 - [17] Originally by: Last Wolf Not to mention, That there is a certain matter that behaves differently than all other matter on earth. and without this ONE.. I repeat this ONE exception out of all the other millions of molecular structures life would not exist. Water EXPANDS as it gets colder, not denser. If it wasn't for this, ice would sink, and rivers, oceans, and lakes would freeze from the bottom up, killing the organisms that produce 75% of the oxygen on Earth. You really should go back to your chem class. You are correct that if water did not do this nifty trick life would likely not exist on earth. You are however completely wrong that water is the only thing that does this. Silicon, Bismuth, Antimony and Gallium come to mind as other things that do this. You just do not encounter them as much.
Last Wolf Templars of Space	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:40:00 - [18] Originally by: Dark Shikari Anthropic principle. If the universe wasn't created in such a way as to allow life to exist, we wouldn't be here, and therefore nobody would be around to ask "why are we here?" Therefore, it is stupid to wonder "why does the universe have just the right physical properties to allow life?" If it didn't, we wouldn't be here to ask the question. So Scientists have to get Philosophical to explain what they can't Explain? Makes since to me.
Dark Shikari Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:46:00 - [19] Originally by: Last Wolf Originally by: Dark Shikari Anthropic principle. If the universe wasn't created in such a way as to allow life to exist, we wouldn't be here, and therefore nobody would be around to ask "why are we here?" Therefore, it is stupid to wonder "why does the universe have just the right physical properties to allow life?" If it didn't, we wouldn't be here to ask the question. So Scientists have to get Philosophical to explain what they can't Explain? Makes since to me. You're asking a philosophical question, not a scientific one. Therefore, one cannot answer scientifically. Any question that, at least now, we have no way of gathering any evidence about, is not scientific; it is philosophical. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:53:00 - [20] You tell people the Answer, and they ignore it. EVE CCG Trinity Booster
Elliot Reid Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Last Wolf Originally by: Dark Shikari Anthropic principle. If the universe wasn't created in such a way as to allow life to exist, we wouldn't be here, and therefore nobody would be around to ask "why are we here?" Therefore, it is stupid to wonder "why does the universe have just the right physical properties to allow life?" If it didn't, we wouldn't be here to ask the question. So Scientists have to get Philosophical to explain what they can't Explain? Makes since to me. If there were an infinite number of parallel universes and each of these universes were different in some way from each other, the law of averages would suggest that eventually a universe would be created that'd be perfect for carbon based lifeforms and have lots of, massively coincidental, sets of conditions met for that life to form and evolve. __________________________________
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.29 23:01:00 - [22] Originally by: Last Wolf Originally by: Dark Shikari Anthropic principle. If the universe wasn't created in such a way as to allow life to exist, we wouldn't be here, and therefore nobody would be around to ask "why are we here?" Therefore, it is stupid to wonder "why does the universe have just the right physical properties to allow life?" If it didn't, we wouldn't be here to ask the question. So Scientists have to get Philosophical to explain what they can't Explain? Makes since to me. You use "philosophy" like it is somehow counter-science. Science is, in its purest form, merely the application and verification of philosophical principles in a quantifiable manner. For questions asked where it is impossible to answer with verification or proof (such as the one in the OP), you are, by default, talking philosophy. ------ Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2008.01.29 23:03:00 - [23] Originally by: Cmdr Sy You tell people the Answer, and they ignore it. I agree, If you expounded upon it, this thread would go 30 pages at least! I will take M theory and parallel universes for 2000 alex! _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Mtthias Clemi Gallente The Space Bastards	Posted - 2008.01.29 23:26:00 - [24] Just because things happened in a certain way and we are here, does not mean that if they hadn't happened we wouldn't be here... If you get me?
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.29 23:28:00 - [25] And faced with logical evidence, the "zomg big bang is dumb" poster immediately retreats. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2008.01.29 23:55:00 - [26] Originally by: Tarminic And faced with logical evidence, the "zomg big bang is dumb" poster immediately retreats. Yeah, thats because the big bang is where science and religion finally meet. Creation from something you cant see. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Joseph 9 Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.01.29 23:56:00 - [27] Originally by: Tarminic And faced with logical evidence, the "zomg big bang is dumb" poster immediately retreats. Thats unfair tbh, if he's in the Europe he's probably gone to bed. I know I should have. And when I forced him to reference a quote he used he was intellectually honest and admitted he hadn't fully read the quote before and had misquoted.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.30 00:06:00 - [28] Originally by: Joseph 9 Originally by: Tarminic And faced with logical evidence, the "zomg big bang is dumb" poster immediately retreats. Thats unfair tbh, if he's in the Europe he's probably gone to bed. I know I should have. And when I forced him to reference a quote he used he was intellectually honest and admitted he hadn't fully read the quote before and had misquoted. Fair enough...should he return I will rescind my statement. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Joseph 9 Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.01.30 00:10:00 - [29] Edited by: Joseph 9 on 30/01/2008 00:12:49 Originally by: Dark Shikari It is much like asking a Christian to prove that his God exists--or just as much, asking an atheist to prove that God does not. These are in fact different. This is a logical fallicy, specifically proof of non-existence, grabbing a random quote from google as I can't be bothered to type. (http://www.nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm specifically) When an arguer cannot provide the evidence for his claims, he may challenge his opponent to prove it doesn't exist (e.g., prove God doesn't exist; prove UFO's haven't visited earth, etc.). Although one may prove non-existence in special limitations, such as showing that a box does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence, or non-existence out of ignorance. One cannot prove something that does not exist. The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims. P.S. I think we've completely derailed your thread Ecnav. Sorry.
Ecnav Gallente The Hate Foundation.	Posted - 2008.01.30 00:51:00 - [30] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Last Wolf Not to mention, That there is a certain matter that behaves differently than all other matter on earth. and without this ONE.. I repeat this ONE exception out of all the other millions of molecular structures life would not exist. Water EXPANDS as it gets colder, not denser. If it wasn't for this, ice would sink, and rivers, oceans, and lakes would freeze from the bottom up, killing the organisms that produce 75% of the oxygen on Earth. That is way more than just coincidence. Anthropic principle. If the universe wasn't created in such a way as to allow life to exist, we wouldn't be here, and therefore nobody would be around to ask "why are we here?" Therefore, it is stupid to wonder "why does the universe have just the right physical properties to allow life?" If it didn't, we wouldn't be here to ask the question. Life grew and evolved with these conditions already in place, we just used them. These conditions did not decide to just show up after life existed. __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ __ A ship while docked is safe... But that isn't what ships were made for.

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