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Takimi Star
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Posted - 2008.02.01 15:26:00 -
[1]
what is with the market today? all the items I buy and sell are swinging wildly down on sell price and up on buy price... who is trying to crash the market? *stands with hand on hip trying to look stern*
but seriously, I had to come and complain somewhere cause it sucks....
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Myrdyr
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Posted - 2008.02.01 15:30:00 -
[2]
obviously it's someone who's more diversified than you... Please post constructively. ~Saint |
Midas Man
Caldari Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.02.01 15:32:00 -
[3]
Hehe, no one inparticular, I think the recent increase in posts on how to trade has massively increased competition in some area's. Also I heard something somewhere about a corp trying to create a new Market Hub maybe they feel crashing existing ones will help who knows. A fool and his money are soon parted Better to die with honor than live with shame Diligence is the mother of good fortune Fools rush in where angels fear to tread Trust is the mother of deceit |
Takimi Star
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Posted - 2008.02.01 15:45:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Myrdyr obviously it's someone who's more diversified than you...
that doesn't explain why they would drop their price in 50k-200k increments every time they update their price...
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Myrdyr
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Posted - 2008.02.01 15:48:00 -
[5]
They value time more than you, and again, are more diversified so cutting margins on one item doesn't affect them to the same degree it does you. It's an anti-competitive move. Please post constructively. ~Saint |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.02.01 15:51:00 -
[6]
If you can't handle it, stop trading. If the margins are too low then leave them for someone else.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Takimi Star
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Posted - 2008.02.01 15:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Shadarle If you can't handle it, stop trading. If the margins are too low then leave them for someone else.
Yes, because that is exactly what I was saying.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.02.01 16:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Takimi Star
Originally by: Shadarle If you can't handle it, stop trading. If the margins are too low then leave them for someone else.
Yes, because that is exactly what I was saying.
It's hard to know what you were saying, all I can see is... "Whine Whine Whine... People are pricing things in a way I don't like... Whine Whine Whine"
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Oberon Theros
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Posted - 2008.02.01 16:05:00 -
[9]
Ah, I do that all the time, each time someone undercuts me I drop profitability by 25% with the purpose of destroying their profitability, at one time in the future they will sell all their goods for a 2.5% profit margin then I can bring my own price back up, or if everyone follows suit I'd simply leave the market for you to tie your money in and go into something with a higher margin.
Less capital gains for you means less of your capital in invest into other markets where-in I'm active. *shrug*
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Tallann
Amarr Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.02.01 18:24:00 -
[10]
I am somewhat curious about this myself... I just started trading with about 20m about 2 weeks ago, and now have about 300m in sell orders up in a market. I tend to do things in groups because it makes it a bit easier to organize, although the groups are very diversified.
What I am curious about and what takimi seems to be talking about is this situation:
There are 300 items on market all ranging in small increments from say... 256999.99 to to 356999.99 all the result of small undercuts. Say the item moves about 30 units per day(obviously not jita).
What is the strategy you are going for by then placing some amount items on that market at 210?(a significant % under the current price) It seems to me there are a few options here:
1. Your hoping to dump your items quickly in a normal manner(although with a low turnover this isn't likely to happen). 2. Your hoping someone will "buy you out" to keep you from crashing the market, or because they know they can sell at the 256, so they will make 20%(roughly) profit on each of your items(at 210) while ensuring theres get sold. 3. Your deliberately trying to crash the market.
It seems to me in regards to: 1) In An actively traded but not huge turnover item all your going to do is crash the market, unless there are very few players involved, someone is going to undercut you again, which means your back in the inevitable small isk order change, your going to lose money on the item as the market crashes completely.(If you then do a huge drop again) 2)This seems like a pretty reasonable position, although I haven't tested the viability of it. 3) Unless your trying to do some market manipulation for your own gains I don't really see the point.(You will make some people lose money, but others will make money off the crash making it a zero-sum game for you that just wastes energy unless your profiting directly)
I am by no means an economist, or expert trader(Although I have done ok for myself in the limited time I have done it) so these are just my opinions. I am by no means complaining or whining as I diversify to a large enough degree that I still make a healthy profit unless everything I am trading tanks. Any thoughts from the more experienced market people?
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cosmoray
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Posted - 2008.02.01 18:50:00 -
[11]
Takimi I just realised your Ricdics little apprentice in his 5K to 1B in a month project.
Don't come here and whine because you are in a good position to learn a lot about the market.
Any takers on a bet that this project DOESN'T meet the goal!!
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Ricdic's Hoe
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Posted - 2008.02.01 19:09:00 -
[12]
Originally by: cosmoray Takimi I just realised your Ricdics little apprentice in his 5K to 1B in a month project.
Don't come here and whine because you are in a good position to learn a lot about the market.
Any takers on a bet that this project DOESN'T meet the goal!!
I don't think he meant it as a whine. Either way go easy on the guy
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Lorravan
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Posted - 2008.02.01 19:25:00 -
[13]
There are a few reasons people will do this:
1. Crash the market and force others out. 2. They bought for a lot less than you did so they can sell at a lower price to guarantee their goods move. 3. They believe the market is going to crash and are trying to get out without a loss.
You should treat this situation the same way you would treat a falling share price in the stock market. If you believe the item is going to regain it's former price then watch for the opportunity to buy at a discount and hold your stock until the upswing in price. On a good item the price will eventually correct itself and buy and sell orders will do the same. If you think the price is not going to stabilize or you don't want to tie up your funds until it does then dump your stock and move elsewhere.
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Tallann
Amarr Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.02.01 19:31:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Tallann on 01/02/2008 19:36:05 Wouldn't doing #2 be an awful big assumption because a) You have no idea who the other players in a given market are unless you buy up 1 each of there goods b)Even if you know who it is you have no idea if they are more diversified or got there goods cheaper than you. Couldn't you be effectively pricing yourself out? Assuming you didn't get it for 1.0 isk? I guess there is some amount of calculated risk involved.
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Takimi Star
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Posted - 2008.02.01 19:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: cosmoray Takimi I just realised your Ricdics little apprentice in his 5K to 1B in a month project.
Don't come here and whine because you are in a good position to learn a lot about the market.
Any takers on a bet that this project DOESN'T meet the goal!!
I was going to respond to this thread with a snide comment or something of that sort, but after careful consideration I guess its just better that I stop posting in MD. Too much hatred for me, or newbies, or maybe just people in general. I don't see how being Ricdic's apprentice automatically volunteered me as the target, but so be it. I don't need to post here to get my enjoyment out of the game.
And for the record, I made this thread with the intention of getting a conversation going with like-minded individuals... guess I failed
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Lorravan
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Posted - 2008.02.01 19:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tallann Edited by: Tallann on 01/02/2008 19:36:05 Wouldn't doing #2 be an awful big assumption because a) You have no idea who the other players in a given market are unless you buy up 1 each of there goods b)Even if you know who it is you have no idea if they are more diversified or got there goods cheaper than you. Couldn't you be effectively pricing yourself out? Assuming you didn't get it for 1.0 isk? I guess there is some amount of calculated risk involved.
It is one of the possible causes for a price drop. For example someone bringing items from regional buy orders to a trade hub to offload them. They may be pricing way below the current sell price but to them it is still a profit and their isk would be freed up quicker.
The dangerous part is assuming this is the case when you have done no research to back it up. For example have similar price changes occurred in other regions? Are there any announced changes that would impact this item? If you do your homework price fluctuations like this usually bring you opportunities.
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cosmoray
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Posted - 2008.02.01 20:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Takimi Star
Originally by: cosmoray Takimi I just realised your Ricdics little apprentice in his 5K to 1B in a month project.
Don't come here and whine because you are in a good position to learn a lot about the market.
Any takers on a bet that this project DOESN'T meet the goal!!
I was going to respond to this thread with a snide comment or something of that sort, but after careful consideration I guess its just better that I stop posting in MD. Too much hatred for me, or newbies, or maybe just people in general. I don't see how being Ricdic's apprentice automatically volunteered me as the target, but so be it. I don't need to post here to get my enjoyment out of the game.
And for the record, I made this thread with the intention of getting a conversation going with like-minded individuals... guess I failed
No hatred, no jealousy. This type of post never really goes down well here in MD, as you will never get any sympathy and everyone is looking to profit from each other and mistakes.
Some friendly advice. You have landed in a uniqiue spot for a new player, where you have the potential to learn a great deal from a seasoned trader.
Later down the line you may come back to the forum for capital for your own business and potential investors will pull up your entire history and your posts to look at your personal character and trustworthiness. When markets change and you need help go to Ricdic for advice, keep your head down and come out a winner.
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Lorravan
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Posted - 2008.02.01 20:12:00 -
[18]
Takimi this is an internet forum, which means every thread must meet a required quota of flames, trolling, insults and stupidity. If you want to have a conversation on an internet forum you have to learn to filter out some of the noise. You have also linked yourself to a very visible project, every post you make is going to be scrutinized more closely than others.
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2008.02.01 20:39:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Takimi Star I was going to respond to this thread with a snide comment or something of that sort, but after careful consideration I guess its just better that I stop posting in MD. Too much hatred for me, or newbies, or maybe just people in general. I don't see how being Ricdic's apprentice automatically volunteered me as the target, but so be it. I don't need to post here to get my enjoyment out of the game.
And for the record, I made this thread with the intention of getting a conversation going with like-minded individuals... guess I failed
Don't let people bother you.
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Cushan
Anti Sweden Defense Force
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:31:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lorravan Takimi this is an internet forum, which means every thread must meet a required quota of flames, trolling, insults and stupidity. If you want to have a conversation on an internet forum you have to learn to filter out some of the noise. You have also linked yourself to a very visible project, every post you make is going to be scrutinized more closely than others.
Words of wisdom. Reading any internet forum is like mining for gold... in a pit of sewage. Sometimes the gold is worth it. But if you think it's bad here, I suggest you try CAOD...
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Jack Freely
Caldari Trading Corp
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Posted - 2008.02.02 02:45:00 -
[21]
I buy my items at 500-1,000 isk and move them into jita. So under cutting me isn't going to happen, best you can do is make me sit on my items as I go run lvl 4 missions somewhere to build rep.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.02.02 03:02:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Takimi Star I was going to respond to this thread with a snide comment or something of that sort
We're all so glad you refrained.
Originally by: Takimi Star And for the record, I made this thread with the intention of getting a conversation going with like-minded individuals...
Correction, that is how you should have made this thread. It is not how you made it. You came here lecturing people on how they should trade because you don't like the way they are doing it now.
Originally by: Takimi Star guess I failed
Indeed.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Uncle Mo
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Posted - 2008.02.04 04:13:00 -
[23]
To interject, I never ever buy from people who undercut buy a "penny". I'll always go for the original seller and so should you. No good reason, just because I say so. Undercutting by .01 ISK is so cheeky.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.02.04 04:23:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Uncle Mo To interject, I never ever buy from people who undercut buy a "penny". I'll always go for the original seller and so should you. No good reason, just because I say so. Undercutting by .01 ISK is so cheeky.
If what you're getting at is what I think, you're actually just paying undercutters an extra 0.01 isk when you're purchasing.
'Coz in case you didn't realise, your Buy order will be filled by the lowest sell order first (if there are sell prices for lower than what you are buying for).
And no, just because you right-click on a higher priced sell order and click "Buy" doesn't mean you're buying from that seller.
Improve Market Competition! |
Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.02.04 04:37:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Uncle Mo To interject, I never ever buy from people who undercut buy a "penny". I'll always go for the original seller and so should you. No good reason, just because I say so. Undercutting by .01 ISK is so cheeky.
I fail to understand how anyone who has played this game for a little bit can not realise that it does not work like this at all.
No matter which price you select, the item comes from and the isk goes to the lowest priced seller, ALWAYS. --
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.02.04 04:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Uncle Mo To interject, I never ever buy from people who undercut buy a "penny". I'll always go for the original seller and so should you. No good reason, just because I say so. Undercutting by .01 ISK is so cheeky.
I fail to understand how anyone who has played this game for a little bit can not realise that it does not work like this at all.
No matter which price you select, the item comes from and the isk goes to the lowest priced seller, ALWAYS.
I have to believe people post this as a joke these days... if not then I feel sorry for them. Wait, no I don't. I feel pity.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.02.04 05:02:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Treelox on 04/02/2008 05:03:11
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Uncle Mo To interject, I never ever buy from people who undercut buy a "penny". I'll always go for the original seller and so should you. No good reason, just because I say so. Undercutting by .01 ISK is so cheeky.
I fail to understand how anyone who has played this game for a little bit can not realise that it does not work like this at all.
No matter which price you select, the item comes from and the isk goes to the lowest priced seller, ALWAYS.
I have to believe people post this as a joke these days... if not then I feel sorry for them. Wait, no I don't. I feel pity.
I particularly enjoy when my transaction log shows someone buying the same item from me 5 tmies at 5 gradually increasing prices. Even though I only have a single and the lowest order for that item. They must think, "OMG this Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party, has taken over the market". Seriously I see this at least once a day in my transaction logs, and the only explanation I can think of is that the person is checking the market to see who his competiion is, and attempting to buy from the 5 lowest orders. I have only really noticed this happening often since invention entered the game, I guess thank god it introduced more market nubbins for us to make profit on.
edit-- typo and grammer issues --
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ZeroZero Merchant
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Posted - 2008.02.04 12:43:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Uncle Mo To interject, I never ever buy from people who undercut buy a "penny". I'll always go for the original seller and so should you. No good reason, just because I say so. Undercutting by .01 ISK is so cheeky.
Please continue doing this.
Thanks.
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Confuzer
Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.04 12:43:00 -
[29]
I hate updating sell and buy orders, so I always crash the market if someone undercuts me. You steal my profit? I pay you back ^^ (and that way I still get a profit, instead of nothing) ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
Danari
Amarr Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.04 14:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: cosmoray everyone is looking to profit from each other and mistakes.
Not me. Hint: Uncut
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