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Can deadspace complexes come back?

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Verx Interis Amarr Aurora Security The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.02.03 05:39:00 - [1] From what I understand, some alliances farmed the old deadspace complexes for lots of money. One of my best memories of Eve is running a 6/10 with some alliance mates. I always felt like complexes were the only real PvE in Eve, because ratting and missions were pretty much single player, while Complexes needed several people to run. I know that there's exploration and all.. but how about this: Random complexes coming up with a random level relative to the security of the system, and random loot. Once the complex is cleared it despawns next downtime. This way you can't reliably farm any complex for money. Obviously these wouldn't come up all the time. There should be a higher chance of pirate ones showing up in pirate controlled space, and stuff like that. But they should still be relatively rare. This is kinda like exploration as it is now, but you don't have to scan for these. Of course, there's a lot less profit, but less work involved. Another option would be that the more it's run, the worse the loot gets. After a while, it'll have to sit, untouched, for a long time to go back to dropping what it dropped before. If you ran it daily it would start dropping crap. Basically, I like complexes. They were cool. and fun. -----sig-starts-here------
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.02.03 06:00:00 - [2] my best memory of Deadspace complexes was actually the PvP aspect of them. You actually had to fight for farming rights over them thus they often became an interesting arena for fights. (The no-MWD rule was a nice tactical aspect too, especially back in the Nanophoon era) It really made me sad when CCP just plain removed them for the time-sink, pure solo-PvE carebear venture that is Exploration. I'm sure there could have been other ways for CCP to go about it - reduce the value of overseers thingies, or whatever - but just throwing them out completely took away the only static low-sec area anyone actually visited
Rangkai	Posted - 2008.02.03 06:12:00 - [3] My memory of complexes is being a new player in Eve and wanting to do one with a few friends, and not being able to because it was farmed so much... Even waiting until after downtime, it was a mad dash to get to the gate and the first key, anyone who had a bigger faster tougher ship than me got through and I never did. I decided complexes were not worth my time, I wanted to have fun.. not camp. Now that they have moved to exploration, I can scan one down, get some friends, and run the whole thing and have lots of fun. I see no reason to go back
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 06:13:00 - [4] I do exploration alot with my corpmates, the thing about exploration is that its very time consuming and after about a week you get all of the same stuff. I think there shold be more variety in plexes. And maybe something for those of us who have taken the time to get our probing skills to lvl 5. I would like to see more plexes, I think that some new ones need to be created, and I think we need more drones in the faction areas (this was nerfed a long time ago, but it was nerfed a little too much and i have seen only 1 or 2 drone plexes in the months since the last patch). Also I like the sisters having probes related stuff, but there needs to be more the faction probes are a little much and need to have thier stats adjusted. (I think that the quest probes should also have thier secondary scan stats boosted to make it easier to find unknown plexes) And that the probes should be cheaper (require less isk & lps as compared to other amunition, or at least convert more for the price) Also I have seen some sisters probing implants in the item database, these shold also be avaiable in the lp store. Even i would turn into a mission ***** for a set of those A bigger eve Annndd..Player Factions
Verx Interis Amarr Aurora Security The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.02.03 06:20:00 - [5] Originally by: Rawr Cristina my best memory of Deadspace complexes was actually the PvP aspect of them. You actually had to fight for farming rights over them thus they often became an interesting arena for fights. (The no-MWD rule was a nice tactical aspect too, especially back in the Nanophoon era) It really made me sad when CCP just plain removed them for the time-sink, pure solo-PvE carebear venture that is Exploration. I'm sure there could have been other ways for CCP to go about it - reduce the value of overseers thingies, or whatever - but just throwing them out completely took away the only static low-sec area anyone actually visited Well the fights were good too but it was the only PvE that actually happened in a group consistently. -----sig-starts-here------
Johnny Darkseid Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.02.03 07:24:00 - [6] Yes Plz. I used to run a bunch of low sec 5/10 for spare isk and pvp goodness by ***ing off the farmers and I miss it greatly. Maybe retool static complexes for decent bounty isk only with no overseers effects and faction loots. Just an improved chance at nice named loots. We really* need moar stuff in low sec not less to attract players.
Tiberius Caesar Sothebys	Posted - 2008.02.03 07:30:00 - [7] how many RA/AA titans did the complex exploits net though?
Johnny Darkseid Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.02.03 07:41:00 - [8] That total is best left to the history section locked away for 50 years. I'd only advocate static complexes coming back with no exploit potential.
Verx Interis Amarr Aurora Security The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.02.03 07:59:00 - [9] Okay I don't mean to sound too rude or flaming but someone didn't read the OP: Originally by: Verx Interis Random complexes coming up with a random level relative to the security of the system, and random loot. Once the complex is cleared it despawns next downtime. This way you can't reliably farm any complex for money. Basically, there would be a given amount in the universe, they would appear randomly, and go away after a timer or after they're run. Just like exploration sites, but you don't have to explore for them. -----sig-starts-here------
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.02.03 07:59:00 - [10] How about no. We already have ppl that built their entire alliance well being on farming those plexes non-stop (and abusing some bugs in the process).
Verx Interis Amarr Aurora Security The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.02.03 08:05:00 - [11] Originally by: Estephania How about no. We already have ppl that built their entire alliance well being on farming those plexes non-stop (and abusing some bugs in the process). As I said, reading the whole post FTW? -----sig-starts-here------
Thommy	Posted - 2008.02.03 08:06:00 - [12] I think we need alot of new cosmos complexes to replace the regular complexes that where removed (just so space doesnt feel that empty). Lootwise they should be 1x trough agents so there is no chance to farm them other then for probably higher spawnrates of the npc's . Maybe more "special" buildings and npc's that might drop one of the cosmos bpc's aswell. And some random "hidden" spawnsites, i really like 4x bs spawns, 2.5 mil bs spawns and other such little surprises at any random location in belts, at planets or at moons or even an agent site you have to scan. Guide \| Patch day
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.02.03 08:26:00 - [13] Originally by: Estephania How about no. We already have ppl that built their entire alliance well being on farming those plexes non-stop (and abusing some bugs in the process). Static plexs dont need to be uber lucrative. The fact that alliances were farming 8/10s constantly was because they gave ridiculously disproportional rewards more than anything. The rushing for the key directly after DT wasn't exactly unfixable either. All it would have taken was a little tweaking... I always thought that Exploration was meant to be new content, not replacement content. The MAIN reason I liked static plexs was because I didn't have to mess about with any probes or agents or belt spawns, I could just be roaming through the region at random and decide to visit the local plex to see what's there - casually making a few mil in the process and very possibly having a PvP encounter. It served as a catalyst for PvP and involved no time sinks whatsoever (as with Exploration, which requires you to be logged in for several hours to see any results for your effort)
Tarron Sarek Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.02.03 10:03:00 - [14] Hmm, I kinda agree. Randomization (spawn times), more difficulty (smarter rats, more webbing/scrambling), and perhaps a bit less profit might have been an interesting alternative. ___________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well - Please stop using the word 'nerf' Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters
Verx Interis Amarr Aurora Security The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.02.03 18:47:00 - [15] Originally by: Tarron Sarek Hmm, I kinda agree. Randomization (spawn times), more difficulty (smarter rats, more webbing/scrambling), and perhaps a bit less profit might have been an interesting alternative. That was exactly my idea. As for difficulty: A 6/10 is the smallest that BS can go in, and it takes several BS to complete. A 1/10 is the smallest that frigates can go in, and it takes on frigate. Not right A 1/10 should take several frigates. Complexes should be a group activity. In all cases. What about this as well: When any complex appears, it's a 1/10 or 2/10. If you let it sit, and don't run it, it gets higher and higher. Of course, it takes longer to go from a 3/10 to a 4/10 than it takes to go from a 7/10 to an 8/10. And the random ones can't ever reach 10/10. Getting it up to a 9/10 might mean a month of waiting. -----sig-starts-here------
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 18:54:00 - [16] What I would like to see is those 'xxx ship log 326541651' logs be useful. I would like to kill a rat in a belt and get a log, and actually go to that system and find the plex there. The log would 'generate' the plex so that nobody else could find it, and also give clues to its location in the system so it would take less time to find. A bigger eve Annndd..Player Factions
Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.03 19:10:00 - [17] Why not just explore for them? The plexes are still there if you look. --------------------------- Vanilla Crazy Cake!
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 19:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Kelron Queldine Why not just explore for them? The plexes are still there if you look. There are many problems with exploration, its takes forever to find anything, especially something good. And thats with top skills. Exploration hasnt added content it has only made the older content harder to get to. A bigger eve Annndd..Player Factions
Spacy Tracy	Posted - 2008.02.03 19:59:00 - [19] Originally by: ghosttr There are many problems with exploration, its takes forever to find anything, especially something good. And thats with top skills. Exploration hasnt added content it has only made the older content harder to get to. You're crazy. Exploration has added a ton of content (though I wouldn't complain if they added some new sites). It doesn't take forever to find something. It just takes skill specialization, and practice. That's right - a new form of play that isn't yours. Exploration is awesome.
Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.03 20:03:00 - [20] Originally by: ghosttr Originally by: Kelron Queldine Why not just explore for them? The plexes are still there if you look. There are many problems with exploration, its takes forever to find anything, especially something good. And thats with top skills. Exploration hasnt added content it has only made the older content harder to get to. Ok, I don't know how often these plexes drop good loot, but I know they have a decent chance of dropping some of the most powerful and valuable modules in game. Why should it be easy to find them? --------------------------- Vanilla Crazy Cake!
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 21:17:00 - [21] Originally by: Spacy Tracy Originally by: ghosttr There are many problems with exploration, its takes forever to find anything, especially something good. And thats with top skills. Exploration hasnt added content it has only made the older content harder to get to. You're crazy. Exploration has added a ton of content (though I wouldn't complain if they added some new sites). It doesn't take forever to find something. It just takes skill specialization, and practice. That's right - a new form of play that isn't yours. Exploration is awesome. You musnt have benn playing very long. The old static plexes were far surperior in rewards compared to the current exploration system and were fun. I have all but 1 of my probing skills at lvl 5, and i can tell you that 95% of what i find isnt worth the time, the hour i took to find that plex that only dropped some ****ty module, or some crappy datacores. I could have been ratting and made more isk that exploration. Exploration takes too long, the time/reward ratio doesnt usually work. Every once in a while you will find something good, but most plexes, take a long time to find, drop crappy loot, and can be completed solo. And after about a week or so they start becoming redundant. Plexes need to be adjust so that the time/isk ratio can be more profitable than ratting. I love plexes that are difficult and rewarding, i have found a few that were extremely fun and required multiple bs to complete, and the rewards were usually worth the wait. I have been plexing since rev 2 and I can only recall 3 such encounters. We need more content, that we can find faster, thats more challenging and more rewarding. A bigger eve Annndd..Player Factions
Psorion The Nine Gates	Posted - 2008.02.03 21:52:00 - [22] Originally by: Spacy Tracy Originally by: ghosttr There are many problems with exploration, its takes forever to find anything, especially something good. And thats with top skills. Exploration hasnt added content it has only made the older content harder to get to. You're crazy. Exploration has added a ton of content (though I wouldn't complain if they added some new sites). It doesn't take forever to find something. It just takes skill specialization, and practice. That's right - a new form of play that isn't yours. Exploration is awesome. Yup Exploration > Complexes
Erim Solfara Amarr House of Solfara	Posted - 2008.02.03 22:09:00 - [23] Originally by: ghosttr What I would like to see is those 'xxx ship log 326541651' logs be useful. I would like to kill a rat in a belt and get a log, and actually go to that system and find the plex there. The log would 'generate' the plex so that nobody else could find it, and also give clues to its location in the system so it would take less time to find. that would be brilliant, allow a warp to co-ordinate function, so people can just tell people co-ordinates in fleet chat instead of trying to copy bookmarks and the like. and have the logs generate a random system NEARBY and a location there to warp to. Potentially have half a dozen logs point to the same plex, just to make it a little more competitive/realistic, but it'd be utter win! A new tool in the fight for balance?
Spacy Tracy	Posted - 2008.02.03 22:12:00 - [24] Originally by: ghosttr Exploration takes too long, the time/reward ratio doesnt usually work. Every once in a while you will find something good, but most plexes, take a long time to find, drop crappy loot, and can be completed solo. And after about a week or so they start becoming redundant. Maybe in high-sec. Where I live in the South it's a pretty simple matter to take 3-4 hours and scan down and run 4 or more magnetometric/radar sites per day. It's pretty easy to tally 100 mil+ at that rate. On a good day it can be a LOT more. Granted, it's not immediate liquid isk, but with a proper empire support/trade network it converts in a week or two. Like I said, I wouldn't mind a little more variety in the sites, but they're well worth my time.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.02.03 22:13:00 - [25] Originally by: ghosttr Originally by: Spacy Tracy Originally by: ghosttr There are many problems with exploration, its takes forever to find anything, especially something good. And thats with top skills. Exploration hasnt added content it has only made the older content harder to get to. You're crazy. Exploration has added a ton of content (though I wouldn't complain if they added some new sites). It doesn't take forever to find something. It just takes skill specialization, and practice. That's right - a new form of play that isn't yours. Exploration is awesome. You musnt have benn playing very long. The old static plexes were far surperior in rewards compared to the current exploration system and were fun. I have all but 1 of my probing skills at lvl 5, and i can tell you that 95% of what i find isnt worth the time, the hour i took to find that plex that only dropped some ***ty module, or some crappy datacores. I could have been ratting and made more isk that exploration. Exploration takes too long, the time/reward ratio doesnt usually work. Every once in a while you will find something good, but most plexes, take a long time to find, drop crappy loot, and can be completed solo. And after about a week or so they start becoming redundant. Plexes need to be adjust so that the time/isk ratio can be more profitable than ratting. I love plexes that are difficult and rewarding, i have found a few that were extremely fun and required multiple bs to complete, and the rewards were usually worth the wait. I have been plexing since rev 2 and I can only recall 3 such encounters. We need more content, that we can find faster, thats more challenging and more rewarding. /this I have cov ops 5 with 2 scan time rigs all level 5 probe skills and a 6% scan time implant. It takes about an hour or so to find the crappy sites and muuuuuuch longer to find anything of value. Plus the odds of finding anything are about 90% crappy 8% decent and 2% awesome. If you have most of the day free you might* scan down one of the 2% awesome sites but don't count on it. So unless you hit the paydirt then even low sec ratting has a higher isk per hour than exploration. Yes the paydays can be huge but then again so is the lottery. Bring back static plexs please. Originally by: Nice Guy This means that the writer epicaly fails at english. Irony. So delicious.
ry ry StateCorp Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.03 22:40:00 - [26] there are still some crappy plexes, i did a 2/10 in a stealth bummer for a laugh yesterday.
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Spaceways	Posted - 2008.02.03 23:33:00 - [27] I do the 1/10 complexes frequently in a frigate. The loot is not great, usually just a c-type armor plating or small repper, but the competition is kinda fun. In empire the plexes are usually filled with carebears so I like to take a zippy little frigate (executioner) and grab the key or the loot when they pop the boss or structure. The c-types aren't worth lots of money but are good for outfitting said frigate. As for exploration, I'm training up for it because I'm a CEO, and I need lots of quiet time to study the maps and markets, spam the recruitment channel, network with my corpmates and allies. It seems to me a productive way to spend that time, and offer good PVE experiences for my corp, would be exploration.
Andriela	Posted - 2008.02.03 23:35:00 - [28] Edited by: Andriela on 03/02/2008 23:35:14 Originally by: ry ry there are still some crappy plexes, i did a 2/10 in a stealth bummer for a laugh yesterday. There are still 10/10 static plexes, for example 3GD6-8. And for sure they are runned 23/7 by people, who dominate in that area.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.02.03 23:37:00 - [29] If all you miss is the group action, then just do L5 missions. More or less the same thing. If you miss the 'Phat Lewt', sorry, you have to put in the work (exploration) to get it! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2008.02.04 02:29:00 - [30] Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 04/02/2008 02:29:23 Originally by: Spacy Tracy It's pretty easy to tally 100 mil+ at that rate. On a good day it can be a LOT more. Granted, it's not immediate liquid isk, but with a proper empire support/trade network it converts in a week or two. With the exception of the lucky good spawn, you're almost better running L4 missions - immediate isk, not having to probe, less random gankage save a wardec ... not quite 100m/4h, but with a good ship pretty close.

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