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high sec piracy, failing at

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Pete Higgs	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:06:00 - [31] Edited by: Pete Higgs on 04/02/2008 21:19:50 Originally by: Sslinger As my understanding of the rules, Raven could not shoot the Drake even in a gang. Drake leaves gang (before shot at) and manages to fire off a shot...yet he was not concorded? Ok, here's a quick run down of high sec flagging rules (skip to bottom if it's tl;dr for the answer to your question): Members of the same corp may shoot each other without concord intervention. Members of the same alliance may not shoot each other without concord intervention. Gang members may not shoot each other without concord intervention. Corporations may shoot members of other corporations they are at war with without concord intervention. Anyone in a gang with a corporation that is at war becomes a valid war target for the opposing corporation. When first joining a gang with a corporation that is at war, you are warned that you will become a valid war target by joining the gang. When a new member in a corporation that is at war joins an existing gang, everyone in that existing gang becomes a valid war target for the corporation that the new member is at war with. No warning is presented to the existing gang members, this just suddenly happens with no option to drop from gang. <-Key to this scam working. If you are first fired upon by someone else, you are always allowed to return fire without concord intervention. If you were legally shot at due to being a war target or ganged with a war target, you will remain flagged to the shooter for the next 15 minutes. This is true even if you leave the gang that caused you to become flagged. Remote repairing extends flagging as appropriate. If you repair someone who is being Concorded, you are also Concorded. It works similarly for war targets and loot thieves. So, the sequence of events is thus: Drake is ganged with a member of a corp that is at war with Raven. Drake warps in to Raven. Raven sees Drake as flashy red, and begins to target him. Drake realizes it's a trap, and drops from fleet. Raven locks and starts shooting, even though Drake is now no longer a valid war target. Concord is called in to kill the Raven. Now the Drake is allowed to return fire because the Raven shot at him first. Mad props to Drake for quick fleet dropping clicking. Also search for l0phty scam.
Sslinger Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:23:00 - [32] I saw no indication from the original poster that there was a war dec involved. Had he mentioned this then I would not have an issue with the story. However, he admits that concord was already in the safe spot meaning that the pirate was either tanking concord or that he had died already prior. Also, original poster mentions red flags after being in warp, but not when he accepted a gang invite with a war dec'd partner...wouldnt thazt have been the first red flag? Not saying that this did not happen, but it is starting to smell a bit. having been concorded many times, if they were already there the drake would not have been able to fire. the killmail only shows single concord attacking and oddly enough hit for just short of the ravens hit points.
Pete Higgs	Posted - 2008.02.05 00:12:00 - [33] Originally by: Sslinger I saw no indication from the original poster that there was a war dec involved. No, but this makes sense because the OP probably had no idea there was a wardec involved, that's the whole point of the l0phty scam. Bullet point 7 from above is key here: Quote: When a new member in a corporation that is at war joins an existing gang, everyone in that existing gang becomes a valid war target for the corporation that the new member is at war with. No warning is presented to the existing gang members, this just suddenly happens with no option to drop from gang. The scammer no doubt invited a third gang member that was at war with the raven after the Drake was already in warp. The OP probably never even noticed this extra gang member join up. The first gang invite would be from a character that is Not at war, hence no warning shows up when you are prompted to accept. As for concord already being there, that could be any number of reasons: Previous victims of the scam may have panicked and attacked a fellow gang member (one of the scammers alts no doubt) that they were not flagged to. Or a previous victim may have tried to go back for revenge after they were no longer flagged to the Raven. As for Concord not killing a Raven in a single instantaneous volley... I'd have to do some tests on SiSi since my experiences are a few patches ago (pre concord buff), but this doesn't seem that hard to believe. Concord damage is extremely high, but finite. Plus the 646 damage from the Drake is only a single volley of heavy missiles, which could have been launched immediately after the Raven had agressed him.
Dexion Slayer Minmatar Perpetual Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.05 00:29:00 - [34] I cannot believe a privateer didnt know about this..i mean they are the masters of wardecs ! ..sumwhat anyway..And good job on the CNR i never had it happen to me before but im waiting...waiting for the moment to do some quick fleet dropping CONCORDOKKEN style when they try it on me :P ill think ill just keep the greens :) -Dex
Sicil Fioet Minmatar	Posted - 2008.02.05 01:24:00 - [35] Edited by: Sicil Fioet on 05/02/2008 01:28:12 There was a post here on forums not so long ago someone complaining that he left gang before he got attacked and he was still parted with his ship. People told him that there is a 30 second session change time after you leave gang during which period the warring party can still start shooting at you without consequences. So unless the CNR pilot was waiting and locking for longer than 30 seconds, this post claims this isn't true. So which one is it then? Can you leave gang and become immune right away? Or was this a bug and you still have to wait out your 30 seconds session change time?
Lakut Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.05 02:57:00 - [36] OK, just to clarify some points. I already said that I didn't really read the gang invite somewhere on page one. My fault, but it didn't change the outcome. The concord might, as has been pointed out, been there because some other victim panicked or attempted revenge without killrights. I might have been wrong there though as well, as I was already way into caffeine time (read: goddamn tired) and even more so when I started the thread. Being tired and considering the time that passed between the incident and my forum post, my memory may have blurred a bit, but considering how fast that happened, I hope it is forgivable. The key points are still standing, namely that the guy attempted and failed to gank me in a lame way giving me some nice loot. About me hitting him before he was dead: Concord started scrambling first, then killed him. I managed to get in a volley between him scrambling me and concord lobbing the first volley. Also, for what proof it may be (screw the censoring): The pirates killboard Our alliance killboard Gamelogs, chatlog with the pirate and another victim that I met salvaging at the site, Screenshots of some of the loot (or the contracts of selling it) and the killmail
Sslinger Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.05 09:16:00 - [37] As a Privateer, I certainly know this...I also know that whenever you join gang with a person involved in a war dec it opens a big box (with war targets written in Bold letters) right in the middle of your screen before you can join it. Also, if the third person was in a war it would again open a window to the drake asking him to approve the join. I group up with my alts daily and have to deal with the extra warnings all the time. As far as a 30 second delay in leaving gang..this is not accurate. You can leave with immediate effects. it takes 20 seconds before you can interact with jumping, docking and re-ganging. Original poster mentioned a pile of wrecks not named after npc's, indicating that the raven had been killing without concord for a bit.
Dexion Slayer Minmatar Perpetual Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.05 16:10:00 - [38] Originally by: Sslinger As a Privateer, I certainly know this...I also know that whenever you join gang with a person involved in a war dec it opens a big box (with war targets written in Bold letters) right in the middle of your screen before you can join it. But but..what if you get invited to a gang by a person that is not at war with anyone. Then no warning, reet? reet! Now what if that person invites some one that is at war, then the whole gang can be attacked by the ppl that are at war with the person that last joined. Thus no warnings. atleast thats how i got it :P ill think ill just keep the greens :) -Dex
Meinore Mahn	Posted - 2008.02.05 22:17:00 - [39] Just steal some ore


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