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Lakut Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 07:48:00 - [1] Today I had my first PvP experience in high sec, with a rather pathetic, failing wannabe creature, that I will henceforth call pirate, lacking a better word. As I was minding my own business in Suroken, getting ready to attempt clearing out lvl2 recon 1/3 in my newly bought and fitted drake (pretty much just for that purpose as all other missions I found were pretty much EZ-Mode in the caracal setup I used, probably the same with recon if you just blitz it, but I don't like to leave rats alive, even if the mission doesn't need me to kill everything), I get messaged by that pirate: Quote: "Pirate" > hey me > hi "Pirate" > I'm having trouble finishing a level 2 mission would you mind helping me do it real quick? me > depends on which one it is ^^ "Pirate" > the blockade me > hm, sure me > blockade is fun "Pirate" > kk me > guristas? "Pirate" > yeah me > awwwwwwwright /me gets fleet invite and accepts "Pirate" > where you go? me > following you into warp? WARNING BELLS ON Blockade is a mission that I find ridiculously easy compared to, lets say, Worlds Collide. But what the hell, the dude might just be mentally challenged, so I go along. When I arrived there, it's immediate Red Alert. A CNR sitting around with some wrecks that are suspiciously not rat-named, a severe lack of guristas and a surprising abundance of CONCORD ships around me drive my pulse and adrenaline levels through the roof. In a few seconds I've brought up the fleet window, and leave that damn fleet. Just in time, the pirate locks me and tries to scram me, and while the damn bugger gets concordokkened I throw in some of my own missiles for good measure. :) I quickly grabbed the loot out of his wreck and warped the hell out (he might have another CNR equipped and has aggro counter on me because of the looting). Aftermath: Quote: me > lol, fail me > srsly, nice try but you like totally failed "Pirate" > lol, dont worry ill get my ship back from GM's me > lol, why would you do that? "Pirate" > i didnt meen to attack you, i had a bugged module shot me > I realized that you'll ganke me after noticing you were in fact no noob "Pirate" > lol me > like you'd need help for blockade in a CNR me > and with a char that old me > srsly, how dumb do you think I am? "Pirate" > lol "Pirate" > dosnt matter to me =) me > same here
Lakut Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 07:48:00 - [2] Edited by: Lakut on 03/02/2008 07:51:46 \o/ CHARLIMIT edited: typo continuation: censored killmail Quote: 2008.02.03 03:39:00 Victim: the pirate Alliance: NONE Corp: his lame corp Destroyed: Raven Navy Issue System: Suroken Security: 0.7 Damage Taken: 36310 Involved parties: Name: CONCORD Police Commander / CONCORD Damage Done: 35664 Name: Lakut (laid the final blow) Security: 0.1 Alliance: Arcane Alliance Corp: EmpiresMod Ship: Drake Weapon: Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I Damage Done: 646 Name: some other poor victim that he got earlier Security: 0.1 Alliance: NONE Corp: [CENSORED] Ship: Tristan Weapon: Compulsive Multispectral ECM I Damage Done: 0 Destroyed items: X-Large Shield Booster II Large Shield Extender I (Cargo) Large Shield Booster II (Cargo) Stasis Webifier I Warp Disruptor I Photonic CPU Enhancer I Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile, Qty: 414 (Cargo) Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile, Qty: 665 (Cargo) Cap Booster 800, Qty: 4 Cap Booster 800, Qty: 5 (Cargo) Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron (Cargo) Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Qty: 4 500W Infectious Power System Malfunction Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Bay Loading Accelerator I Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile, Qty: 700 (Cargo) Shield Recharger II (Cargo) Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile, Qty: 27 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I, Qty: 2 (Cargo) V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix (Cargo) Shield Recharger I, Qty: 2 (Cargo) Dual 180mm 'Scout' Autocannon I (Cargo) Hammerhead I, Qty: 2 (Drone Bay) Dropped items: Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I Large Shield Booster II (Cargo) Ballistic Control System II, Qty: 2 Photonic CPU Enhancer I Caldari Navy Devastator Cruise Missile, Qty: 1000 (Cargo) Shield Power Relay II (Cargo) Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile, Qty: 90 (Cargo) Type-D Power Core Modification: Diagnostic System Shield Boost Amplifier I Medium Shield Extender II (Cargo) Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Qty: 3 Medium Shield Booster II (Cargo) Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile, Qty: 157 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I, Qty: 2 (Cargo) 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I (Cargo) Yeah good luck getting that crap back from GM. I hope they don't die from laughing at you. ^_^ Thanks for the Faction and T2 loot, I had some real good lulz IRL, in alliance chat and on vent. And the money will indeed come in handy after loosing the drake to a real pirate in 0.0 later that night (had to help an alliancemate in a real hurry and went in with a srsly crap fitting, knowing that it's probably suicide). The End.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.02.03 07:52:00 - [3] So in order to be a real pirate you have to be 100% successful at anything you attempt even if you target is on to you?
Kushan	Posted - 2008.02.03 07:57:00 - [4] Pretty funny. You know, it occurs to me that leaving fleet before they finish locking you might be a good way to get some cheap kills. :] "Could you help me in my CNR finish this really hard level 1 mission, please?" "Oh, of course! I'm on my way."
Lakut Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 08:03:00 - [5] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin So in order to be a real pirate you have to be 100% successful at anything you attempt even if you target is on to you? In order to be a "real" pirate you should use some real tactics in lawless space (or at least fun stuff like suicide ganking haulers in high sec) instead of trying to bait newbs in their ratting ships in high sec by abusing their trust and good naturedness, imo. I even have more respect for can flippers and ore stealers and that's pretty hard. PS/DISCLAIMER: I don't have anything against piracy as it is, especially in low sec and 0.0. But what that guy tried and how hard he failed is just pathetic.
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.02.03 08:05:00 - [6] That's odd. I used to think you could attack members of your own fleet free of consequence (was certainly how things were when I first played during Revelations), but now the fleet invite pop-up window says you aren't actually allowed to attack your fleet members. Is the window wrong, or...? ________________
Lakut Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 08:07:00 - [7] Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn That's odd. I used to think you could attack members of your own fleet free of consequence (was certainly how things were when I first played during Revelations), but now the fleet invite pop-up window says you aren't actually allowed to attack your fleet members. Is the window wrong, or...? You certainly can, I was messing around with some corpmates in a fleet a few days ago (stuff like blasting away shields when the other one's not watching, jamming sensors, etc.). Or maybe that was because of being in the same corp? I dunno.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.02.03 08:09:00 - [8] Originally by: Lakut Originally by: Marcus TheMartin So in order to be a real pirate you have to be 100% successful at anything you attempt even if you target is on to you? In order to be a "real" pirate you should use some real tactics in lawless space (or at least fun stuff like suicide ganking haulers in high sec) instead of trying to bait newbs in their ratting ships in high sec by abusing their trust and good naturedness, imo. I even have more respect for can flippers and ore stealers and that's pretty hard. PS/DISCLAIMER: I don't have anything against piracy as it is, especially in low sec and 0.0. But what that guy tried and how hard he failed is just pathetic. So then what is corp theiving classified under?
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.02.03 08:11:00 - [9] Originally by: Lakut Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn Or maybe that was because of being in the same corp? I dunno. Yeah, corp mates are allowed to attack each other freely, even if not in a fleet. Helps with frigate tourneys, tackling practice, etc. ________________
Lakut Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 08:23:00 - [10] Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn Yeah, corp mates are allowed to attack each other freely, even if not in a fleet. Helps with frigate tourneys, tackling practice, etc. Ah, kk. But I'm pretty sure you still can attack fleet members. I doubt he'd have tried to pull that off if it wasn't the case and he was successful before that, too, as the other wrecks (and another one of his victims salvaging wrecks later) at that site showed. Originally by: Marcus TheMartin So then what is corp theiving classified under? Dunno. General thieving? Defraud? Con Artist? I certainly wouldn't call it piracy at all, since it lacks that distinctive pewpew element that's normally associated with that kind of activity.

Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.02.03 08:26:00 - [11] Originally by: Lakut Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn Yeah, corp mates are allowed to attack each other freely, even if not in a fleet. Helps with frigate tourneys, tackling practice, etc. Ah, kk. But I'm pretty sure you still can attack fleet members. I doubt he'd have tried to pull that off if it wasn't the case and he was successful before that, too, as the other wrecks (and another one of his victims salvaging wrecks later) at that site showed. Originally by: Marcus TheMartin So then what is corp theiving classified under? Dunno. General thieving? Defraud? Con Artist? I certainly wouldn't call it piracy at all, since it lacks that distinctive pewpew element that's normally associated with that kind of activity. well lets use a dictionary for piracy shall we Main Entry:pi+ra+cy Pronunciation:\ˈpī-rə-sē\ Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural pi+ra+cies Etymology:Medieval Latin piratia, from Late Greek peirateia, from Greek peiratēs pirate Date: 1537 1: an act of robbery on the high seas; also : an act resembling such robbery 2: robbery on the high seas 3 a: the unauthorized use of another's production, invention, or conception especially in infringement of a copyright b: the illicit accessing of broadcast signals If they trick you to rob you of your loot they aren't pirates? according to that they are
Flamewave Contempt.	Posted - 2008.02.03 08:32:00 - [12] No, you've never been able to attack other members of your fleet unless you're in the same corporation (not alliance) or you're at war with them. Obviously you ganged an alt that's at war with the CNR guy which gave the CNR guy permission to shoot you - until you left fleet, that is. Nice timing leaving fleet. __________
Lakut Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 08:45:00 - [13] Edited by: Lakut on 03/02/2008 08:48:11 Edited by: Lakut on 03/02/2008 08:47:51 \o/ HAIRSPLITTING CONTEST???? Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Marcus TheMartin So then what is corp theiving classified under? Dunno. General thieving? Defraud? Con Artist? Originally by: Lakut I certainly wouldn't call it piracy at all, since it lacks that distinctive pewpew element that's normally associated with that kind of activity. well lets use a dictionary for piracy shall we Main Entry:pi+ra+cy Pronunciation:\ˈpī-rə-sē\ Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural pi+ra+cies Etymology:Medieval Latin piratia, from Late Greek peirateia, from Greek peiratēs pirate Date: 1537 1: an act of robbery on the high seas; also : an act resembling such robbery 2: robbery on the high seas 3 a: the unauthorized use of another's production, invention, or conception especially in infringement of a copyright b: the illicit accessing of broadcast signals If they trick you to rob you of your loot they aren't pirates? according to that they are We're still talking corp thievery? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_trick Quote: A confidence trick or confidence game, also known as a con, scam, swindle, grift, bunko, flim flam, or scheme, is an attempt to swindle a person or persons (known as the "mark") which involves gaining his or her confidence. (For confidence tricks dealing with information theft or computers see social engineering.) Not every act of theft (or robbery) is piracy. Point 3) of your quote means stuff like software and product piracy (the way you get your latest games, the cheap STIHL lookalike chainsaw, and so forth). Not stealing real actual items. In the case of Corp Thieves, the point is gaining trust to rip off gullible victims without the application of violence, which is colloquially called: Something Not Called Piracy[TM]. But that doesn't exactly roll of the tongue now, does it? And I've never said that a pirate can't scam, con or defraud. But he's not pirating his victims in those cases. EDIT: But anyway, this part of the discussion goes offtopic and way too fast at that. Stop? Originally by: Flamewave No, you've never been able to attack other members of your fleet unless you're in the same corporation (not alliance) or you're at war with them. Obviously you ganged an alt that's at war with the CNR guy which gave the CNR guy permission to shoot you - until you left fleet, that is. Ah, that makes sense. I should start bothering to read group invitations, but then again, I was already alarmed in that case though, so I doubt it would've made much of a difference. Originally by: Flamewave Nice timing leaving fleet. Thanks.
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Sp00t	Posted - 2008.02.03 09:47:00 - [14] Originally by: Lakut Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn That's odd. I used to think you could attack members of your own fleet free of consequence (was certainly how things were when I first played during Revelations), but now the fleet invite pop-up window says you aren't actually allowed to attack your fleet members. Is the window wrong, or...? You certainly can, I was messing around with some corpmates in a fleet a few days ago (stuff like blasting away shields when the other one's not watching, jamming sensors, etc.). Or maybe that was because of being in the same corp? I dunno. No, you can't. In order to shoot at each other, you need to be in the same corp. I was helping my bff, Jill, do a lvl 4 when I accidentally targetted him with missiles primed. That's how Concord got my Cerberus killmail. --- Originally by: CCP Zulupark The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of gold...Amarr simply sit there and charge their lasers, secure in their knowledge that God is on their side.
Lakut Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 09:53:00 - [15] Originally by: Bardi MecAuldnis Originally by: Lakut Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn That's odd. I used to think you could attack members of your own fleet free of consequence (was certainly how things were when I first played during Revelations), but now the fleet invite pop-up window says you aren't actually allowed to attack your fleet members. Is the window wrong, or...? You certainly can, I was messing around with some corpmates in a fleet a few days ago (stuff like blasting away shields when the other one's not watching, jamming sensors, etc.). Or maybe that was because of being in the same corp? I dunno. No, you can't. In order to shoot at each other, you need to be in the same corp. I was helping my bff, Jill, do a lvl 4 when I accidentally targetted him with missiles primed. That's how Concord got my Cerberus killmail. Yeah, we already found that out in the last two posts already. Lazyness and newbness on my side there. I plead guilty.
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.02.03 12:25:00 - [16] By the way, getting an 800 million ISK Raven Navy Issue CONCORDOKKENED trying to lure people into a cheesy trap is definitely a huge failure. In fact, it's one of the most epic and profound failures I've heard of recently, especially with that "I'M GONNA PETITION THIS, BAWWWWWWW" thrown into the mix. Dude's out 800 million ISK, and I seriously doubt he made them much off his victims (even 100m would be a stretch). Net loss of time and effort, net loss of ISK, net utter failure. I think EVE needs another PvP option. Currently they only options seem to be fleet blobbing in nullsec and gate camping in lowsec, with a few roaming gang battles thrown in here and there. Give those middle-of-the-road PvP folks something to do, CCP. ________________
Elles D Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.03 15:00:00 - [17] Edited by: Elles D on 03/02/2008 14:59:58 Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn By the way, getting an 800 million ISK Raven Navy Issue CONCORDOKKENED trying to lure people into a cheesy trap is definitely a huge failure. In fact, it's one of the most epic and profound failures I've heard of recently, especially with that "I'M GONNA PETITION THIS, BAWWWWWWW" thrown into the mix. Dude's out 800 million ISK, and I seriously doubt he made them much off his victims (even 100m would be a stretch). Net loss of time and effort, net loss of ISK, net utter failure. I think EVE needs another PvP option. Currently they only options seem to be fleet blobbing in nullsec and gate camping in lowsec, with a few roaming gang battles thrown in here and there. Give those middle-of-the-road PvP folks something to do, CCP. Empire war decs, can flipping, deception to get a 1v1 etc... If you think about it there are plenty of options.
Phoneus Elithion	Posted - 2008.02.03 15:02:00 - [18] The guy lost a Raven Navy Issue? I'll be damned! That ship costs a fortune. Good for you though. A friend of mine wasn't so lucky. He was lured by a guy with a frigate and there were two BS waiting for him.
Brutoth Tain Independant Recon and Intelligence Agency	Posted - 2008.02.03 15:33:00 - [19] Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn By the way, getting an 450 million ISK Raven Navy Issue CONCORDOKKENED trying to lure people into a cheesy trap is definitely a huge failure. In fact, it's one of the most epic and profound failures I've heard of recently, especially with that "I'M GONNA PETITION THIS, BAWWWWWWW" thrown into the mix. Dude's out 800 million ISK, and I seriously doubt he made them much off his victims (even 100m would be a stretch). Net loss of time and effort, net loss of ISK, net utter failure. I think EVE needs another PvP option. Currently they only options seem to be fleet blobbing in nullsec and gate camping in lowsec, with a few roaming gang battles thrown in here and there. Give those middle-of-the-road PvP folks something to do, CCP. Fixed that for you.
Hemroid Diddller Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.02.03 15:55:00 - [20] Originally by: Flamewave No, you've never been able to attack other members of your fleet unless you're in the same corporation (not alliance) or you're at war with them. You used to be able to then they changed it. Also Just becuase you roll around in lawless space doesnt mean your a pirate. (there are some but not many) Real pirates are the ones you see in low sec.

Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.02.03 16:31:00 - [21] Originally by: Lakut words What I was saying is according to definition 1 what he had done was considered piracy. So he is by no means a wannabe. No one is perfect something can always go wrong
Lakut Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 19:31:00 - [22] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Lakut words What I was saying is according to definition 1 what he had done was considered piracy. So he is by no means a wannabe. No one is perfect something can always go wrong ACK, that was. The "wannabe" was refering to him being just a lame noob-baiter and srsly failing at that (including the "I get back from GM" statement). You totally threw me off with mentioning that corp thievery comment, though. Note to self: I shouldn't post in forums after playing through the whole night and morning, might've saved us that rather pointless discussion. Originally by: Brutoth Tain Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn By the way, getting an 450 million ISK Raven Navy Issue CONCORDOKKENED trying to lure people into a cheesy trap is definitely a huge failure. In fact, it's one of the most epic and profound failures I've heard of recently, especially with that "I'M GONNA PETITION THIS, BAWWWWWWW" thrown into the mix. Dude's out 800 million ISK, and I seriously doubt he made them much off his victims (even 100m would be a stretch). Net loss of time and effort, net loss of ISK, net utter failure. I think EVE needs another PvP option. Currently they only options seem to be fleet blobbing in nullsec and gate camping in lowsec, with a few roaming gang battles thrown in here and there. Give those middle-of-the-road PvP folks something to do, CCP. Fixed that for you. Including fitting I'd assume it was worth a lot more than 450m. 800m might've been a good guess.
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.02.03 19:35:00 - [23] Originally by: Brutoth Tain Fixed that for you. 450 million is the absolute cheapest you can get one. But you're right, I was factoring in the cost of better-tan-average quality mods, when in fact the guy was using pretty mediocre mods. ________________
Lakut Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 19:47:00 - [24] Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn on 03/02/2008 19:36:25 Originally by: Brutoth Tain Fixed that for you. 450 million is the absolute cheapest you can get one. But you're right, I was factoring in the cost of better-than-average quality mods, when in fact the guy was using pretty mediocre mods. Originally by: Lakut Including fitting I'd assume it was worth a lot more than 450m. 800m might've been a good guess. Yeah, that was what I was factoring in, but from the killmail I don't think it was 200-300m worth of mods. Makes me wonder why he used a CNR, he could've used something much cheaper with good mods and been just as effective. Look at how many Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launchers he fitted. Check the contracts on those. Lots of ISK right there.
Ishido Hideyori No Fear Buccaneers	Posted - 2008.02.03 19:50:00 - [25] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin What I was saying is according to definition 1 what he had done was considered piracy. So he is by no means a wannabe. No one is perfect something can always go wrong Yeah, something can always go wrong, in this case it was him undocking in a CNR to do a job that could just as easily been done by a standard battleship or battlecruiser. Also, he immediately started talking about going to cry to the GM. Can anyone say "I didn't think this through and now I'm tearing up because this noob got me concorded?"
Letuce	Posted - 2008.02.04 12:28:00 - [26] Haha, I saw your killmail on the alliance killboard and I was kinda wondering what happened. Don't see CNR's popped every day and you jumped to no. 1 with one kill. Pretty fun story.
Lavraen Minmatar Black Podding	Posted - 2008.02.04 14:54:00 - [27] Originally by: Lakut I even have more respect for can flippers and ore stealers and that's pretty hard. And so you should. Lavraen
Pride NL Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.02.04 16:01:00 - [28] Bottomline, never take anything out of cans that arent yours unless you are willing to PVP. The most funny thing that happend to me was a guy in a blackbird, sitting outside station. I docked, fitted ECCM and undocked to grab his can. Sadly i forgot to fit a scram, so he got away. But i bet he was surprised that his ECM didnt work. Can droppers are stupid. Arrive. Raise Hell. Leave.
Wolf Koch	Posted - 2008.02.04 18:08:00 - [29] Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn I think EVE needs another PvP option. Currently they only options seem to be fleet blobbing in nullsec and gate camping in lowsec, with a few roaming gang battles thrown in here and there. Give those middle-of-the-road PvP folks something to do, CCP. Removing all ore (bar Veldspar) from highsec would be a start. ______________________
Sslinger Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.04 18:26:00 - [30] How was it this guy was surrounded by other player wrecks and didnt get concorded? I have to suspect that this post may be slightly false. As my understanding of the rules, Raven could not shoot the Drake even in a gang. Drake leaves gang (before shot at) and manages to fire off a shot...yet he was not concorded? And when you entered the area it was swarming with police already so they would have dropped him the instant he hit F1...not sure you would have gotten a shot off. Either way, he was an idiot if this is real. To put a Navy Raven out there as a gift to the concord gods screams Ebay!!!

Pete Higgs	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:06:00 - [31] Edited by: Pete Higgs on 04/02/2008 21:19:50 Originally by: Sslinger As my understanding of the rules, Raven could not shoot the Drake even in a gang. Drake leaves gang (before shot at) and manages to fire off a shot...yet he was not concorded? Ok, here's a quick run down of high sec flagging rules (skip to bottom if it's tl;dr for the answer to your question): Members of the same corp may shoot each other without concord intervention. Members of the same alliance may not shoot each other without concord intervention. Gang members may not shoot each other without concord intervention. Corporations may shoot members of other corporations they are at war with without concord intervention. Anyone in a gang with a corporation that is at war becomes a valid war target for the opposing corporation. When first joining a gang with a corporation that is at war, you are warned that you will become a valid war target by joining the gang. When a new member in a corporation that is at war joins an existing gang, everyone in that existing gang becomes a valid war target for the corporation that the new member is at war with. No warning is presented to the existing gang members, this just suddenly happens with no option to drop from gang. <-Key to this scam working. If you are first fired upon by someone else, you are always allowed to return fire without concord intervention. If you were legally shot at due to being a war target or ganged with a war target, you will remain flagged to the shooter for the next 15 minutes. This is true even if you leave the gang that caused you to become flagged. Remote repairing extends flagging as appropriate. If you repair someone who is being Concorded, you are also Concorded. It works similarly for war targets and loot thieves. So, the sequence of events is thus: Drake is ganged with a member of a corp that is at war with Raven. Drake warps in to Raven. Raven sees Drake as flashy red, and begins to target him. Drake realizes it's a trap, and drops from fleet. Raven locks and starts shooting, even though Drake is now no longer a valid war target. Concord is called in to kill the Raven. Now the Drake is allowed to return fire because the Raven shot at him first. Mad props to Drake for quick fleet dropping clicking. Also search for l0phty scam.
Sslinger Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:23:00 - [32] I saw no indication from the original poster that there was a war dec involved. Had he mentioned this then I would not have an issue with the story. However, he admits that concord was already in the safe spot meaning that the pirate was either tanking concord or that he had died already prior. Also, original poster mentions red flags after being in warp, but not when he accepted a gang invite with a war dec'd partner...wouldnt thazt have been the first red flag? Not saying that this did not happen, but it is starting to smell a bit. having been concorded many times, if they were already there the drake would not have been able to fire. the killmail only shows single concord attacking and oddly enough hit for just short of the ravens hit points.
Pete Higgs	Posted - 2008.02.05 00:12:00 - [33] Originally by: Sslinger I saw no indication from the original poster that there was a war dec involved. No, but this makes sense because the OP probably had no idea there was a wardec involved, that's the whole point of the l0phty scam. Bullet point 7 from above is key here: Quote: When a new member in a corporation that is at war joins an existing gang, everyone in that existing gang becomes a valid war target for the corporation that the new member is at war with. No warning is presented to the existing gang members, this just suddenly happens with no option to drop from gang. The scammer no doubt invited a third gang member that was at war with the raven after the Drake was already in warp. The OP probably never even noticed this extra gang member join up. The first gang invite would be from a character that is Not at war, hence no warning shows up when you are prompted to accept. As for concord already being there, that could be any number of reasons: Previous victims of the scam may have panicked and attacked a fellow gang member (one of the scammers alts no doubt) that they were not flagged to. Or a previous victim may have tried to go back for revenge after they were no longer flagged to the Raven. As for Concord not killing a Raven in a single instantaneous volley... I'd have to do some tests on SiSi since my experiences are a few patches ago (pre concord buff), but this doesn't seem that hard to believe. Concord damage is extremely high, but finite. Plus the 646 damage from the Drake is only a single volley of heavy missiles, which could have been launched immediately after the Raven had agressed him.
Dexion Slayer Minmatar Perpetual Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.05 00:29:00 - [34] I cannot believe a privateer didnt know about this..i mean they are the masters of wardecs ! ..sumwhat anyway..And good job on the CNR i never had it happen to me before but im waiting...waiting for the moment to do some quick fleet dropping CONCORDOKKEN style when they try it on me :P ill think ill just keep the greens :) -Dex
Sicil Fioet Minmatar	Posted - 2008.02.05 01:24:00 - [35] Edited by: Sicil Fioet on 05/02/2008 01:28:12 There was a post here on forums not so long ago someone complaining that he left gang before he got attacked and he was still parted with his ship. People told him that there is a 30 second session change time after you leave gang during which period the warring party can still start shooting at you without consequences. So unless the CNR pilot was waiting and locking for longer than 30 seconds, this post claims this isn't true. So which one is it then? Can you leave gang and become immune right away? Or was this a bug and you still have to wait out your 30 seconds session change time?
Lakut Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.05 02:57:00 - [36] OK, just to clarify some points. I already said that I didn't really read the gang invite somewhere on page one. My fault, but it didn't change the outcome. The concord might, as has been pointed out, been there because some other victim panicked or attempted revenge without killrights. I might have been wrong there though as well, as I was already way into caffeine time (read: goddamn tired) and even more so when I started the thread. Being tired and considering the time that passed between the incident and my forum post, my memory may have blurred a bit, but considering how fast that happened, I hope it is forgivable. The key points are still standing, namely that the guy attempted and failed to gank me in a lame way giving me some nice loot. About me hitting him before he was dead: Concord started scrambling first, then killed him. I managed to get in a volley between him scrambling me and concord lobbing the first volley. Also, for what proof it may be (screw the censoring): The pirates killboard Our alliance killboard Gamelogs, chatlog with the pirate and another victim that I met salvaging at the site, Screenshots of some of the loot (or the contracts of selling it) and the killmail
Sslinger Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.05 09:16:00 - [37] As a Privateer, I certainly know this...I also know that whenever you join gang with a person involved in a war dec it opens a big box (with war targets written in Bold letters) right in the middle of your screen before you can join it. Also, if the third person was in a war it would again open a window to the drake asking him to approve the join. I group up with my alts daily and have to deal with the extra warnings all the time. As far as a 30 second delay in leaving gang..this is not accurate. You can leave with immediate effects. it takes 20 seconds before you can interact with jumping, docking and re-ganging. Original poster mentioned a pile of wrecks not named after npc's, indicating that the raven had been killing without concord for a bit.
Dexion Slayer Minmatar Perpetual Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.05 16:10:00 - [38] Originally by: Sslinger As a Privateer, I certainly know this...I also know that whenever you join gang with a person involved in a war dec it opens a big box (with war targets written in Bold letters) right in the middle of your screen before you can join it. But but..what if you get invited to a gang by a person that is not at war with anyone. Then no warning, reet? reet! Now what if that person invites some one that is at war, then the whole gang can be attacked by the ppl that are at war with the person that last joined. Thus no warnings. atleast thats how i got it :P ill think ill just keep the greens :) -Dex
Meinore Mahn	Posted - 2008.02.05 22:17:00 - [39] Just steal some ore


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