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Daddy Xerox	Posted - 2008.02.05 09:45:00 - [1] Taking a character that can fly every BS, and outfit it with T2 across the board, what is the hands down best BS for cakewalking lvl4 missions? Tier 3? Faction Navy? Pirate Faction? T2? Looking at the CNR it seems to support a 'decent' tank and dish out respectable DPS, but are there other ships out there that can work better? I'm willing to consider faction gear for such a boat, but not the bleeding edge overpriced stuff.
Plave Okice Gallente Red.	Posted - 2008.02.05 10:06:00 - [2] One of the Raven variants, which variant and what fittings all comes down to the isk you want to spend Red CEORed Vs Blue
Cpt Hound	Posted - 2008.02.05 10:24:00 - [3] Navy Megathron \o/
NerVee Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.02.05 10:32:00 - [4] In my opinion go with the following. Tier 3 : Abaddon Faction Navy : CNR Pirate Faction : Machariel T2 : Golem / Paladin I use a CNR myself, certainly does the job well, toying with the idea of getting a Golem.
Daddy Xerox	Posted - 2008.02.05 11:05:00 - [5] Originally by: Plave Okice One of the Raven variants, which variant and what fittings all comes down to the isk you want to spend I was easily able to out-DPS and out-Tank a typical T2 kit raven with an equivalently T2 kit Typhoon. Alas, there's no faction analogue to the Typh, so nothing that I've seen can really compare to the CNR. Golem gets that damage bonus, as does the Nightmare, but both of them have less shield & cap than the CNR (and they're shield tankers. The nightmare has the power managment issue with it's lasers. It does, though, get the +125% peak damage bonus on them).
MuffinsRevenger EmpiresMod Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.05 11:09:00 - [6] Nightmare for sansha/blood/drones (epic dps) Golem for the others (i can has looting together with exelent flexibility)
Red Harvest	Posted - 2008.02.05 13:05:00 - [7] CNR (cruise fitted) is apperantly the favorite among the mission runners. Good tank and although the pure DPS is not that great you can switch damage types and deal more dmg on target than most other ships. Nightmare is my personal favorite, tachyon + gist tank setup can clean out most stages in no time. Best ship vs sansha/blood and still quite good vs anything else (only piths take too long due to high em/therm resists on them).
wierchas noobhunter Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.05 13:08:00 - [8] raven domi transformers!! do u see them ?
Herbaliser	Posted - 2008.02.05 13:20:00 - [9] Use a CNR. Just over half the price of a Golem with more tank and more DPS. Then buy an Exequeror / Catalyst to loot and salvage.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.02.05 13:42:00 - [10] Geddon. 7x MP's. (MFC and Microwave). 3x Tracking computers. (range and tracking). Lar, 3xactive hardners, DCU and 3x heatsink II. Drones: Med and Light. Ofcourse, you can't do the missions solo, but it cut's through everything, fast. Even better then a raven in equal setup and support.
Daddy Xerox	Posted - 2008.02.05 23:59:00 - [11] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Geddon. 7x MP's. (MFC and Microwave). 3x Tracking computers. (range and tracking). Lar, 3xactive hardners, DCU and 3x heatsink II. Drones: Med and Light. Ofcourse, you can't do the missions solo, but it cut's through everything, fast. Even better then a raven in equal setup and support. Agreed. In specific encounters a standard tier-1 BS can be used in far better ways than many faction ships. Typhoon can easily tank most missions, and has excellent DPS. Your burngeddon can't tank so well, but rips through most stuff due to ROF bonus alone. Have contemplated a Fleet Tempest as it gets both ROF and DPS bonus with a CNR equivalent tank... and they're dirt cheap comparatively. I have not compared the DPS on them tho. Nightmare is nice for it's effective 10-gun DPS, but no cap-use bonus for those energy hungry lasers, and now it's a shield tank to boot...
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.06 00:34:00 - [12] I myself prefer the domi and the mega, mainly because the mega puts out more dps then a raven (in my experience anyway, similarly fit with similar skills), and both the mega and the domi can armor tank. I <3 armor tanking in missions, mainly because it's much easier to get a cap stable tank (try that with a shield tank and tech II mods...nothing short of faction is gonna perma run), and with the domi, while it doesn't kill as quickly as a thron you can loot as you go, or heck, with 3-4 rails on it it actually outdamages the thron (5-600dps was what I get with named guns and tech I ammo and tech II ogres) Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
WardogX Minmatar Outkasts	Posted - 2008.02.06 00:39:00 - [13] Edited by: WardogX on 06/02/2008 00:42:49 Edited by: WardogX on 06/02/2008 00:42:07 Caldari Navy Raven, Kronos, Paladin, Nigthmare those are prolly the fastest mission killers. PS: (I said CNR over Golem since most people report golem is slightly less effective then a gank setup CNR) PPS: Kronos and Paladin pull off just as much DPS as Nightmare... just a matter of which direction you want to head... benefit of all these 4 turrest 100% dmg bonus ships is easier to fit turrets and less cap consumption... i actually pull off bigger hits with my kronos over paladin)
Law Enforcer Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.06 00:39:00 - [14] Edited by: Law Enforcer on 06/02/2008 00:39:13 Originally by: Daddy Xerox Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Geddon. 7x MP's. (MFC and Microwave). 3x Tracking computers. (range and tracking). Lar, 3xactive hardners, DCU and 3x heatsink II. Drones: Med and Light. Ofcourse, you can't do the missions solo, but it cut's through everything, fast. Even better then a raven in equal setup and support. Agreed. In specific encounters a standard tier-1 BS can be used in far better ways than many faction ships. Typhoon can easily tank most missions, and has excellent DPS. Your burngeddon can't tank so well, but rips through most stuff due to ROF bonus alone. Have contemplated a Fleet Tempest as it gets both ROF and DPS bonus with a CNR equivalent tank... and they're dirt cheap comparatively. I have not compared the DPS on them tho. Nightmare is nice for it's effective 10-gun DPS, but no cap-use bonus for those energy hungry lasers, and now it's a shield tank to boot... with the nightmare you're only firing four turrets compared to six/eight though so the cap reduction bonus isn't needed as much. with around 1180dps you won't need to tank that much as you'll roast most spawns before they get into firing range.
Phil Miller Ocean Dynamics	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Herbaliser Use a CNR. Just over half the price of a Golem with more tank and more DPS. Then buy an Exequeror / Catalyst to loot and salvage. Stop giving away my secrets. ______________________________________
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:02:00 - [16] Geddon. 7 x MP 2 x tracking comp, 1 x hvy cap injector 1 x LAR, 4 x hardeners, 3 x heatsink 2 x aux nanopump, 1 x nanobot accel 4 x Ogre II/sentries, 5 x hobgoblin II
Daddy Xerox	Posted - 2008.02.06 10:21:00 - [17] Okay... I downloaded EFT and ran a list of BS through it, fitting just weapons in high, using the skills set to 'All rank 5' just for uniformity. Where possible fitted with secondary weapons (cruise/siege) that will fit, and carrying 5x Hammerhead II drones. This gives a rough rundown of what can be expected as far as simple DPS/Volley damage for each ship type. Weapons are loaded with their closest range ammo, and launchers with EM missile types. Raven 6x Cruise II & 2x Neutron II & Drones 530/638 6x Siege II & Drones 626/3713 Caldari Navy Raven 7x Cruise II & Drones 464/2888 7x Siege II & Drones 704/4331 Rokh 8x Neutron II & Drones 598/2550 Armageddon 7x MPL & Drones 608/1913 Abaddon 8x MPL II & Drones 640/2732 Apocalypse 8x MPL II & Drones 544/2186 Apocalypse Navy Issue 8x MPL II & Drones 544/2186 Typhoon 4x Siege II & 4x 800mm Auto II & Drones 674/900 Tempest 6x 800mm Auto II & 2x Siege II & Drones 659/1688 Tempest Fleet Issue 6x 800mm Auto II & 2x Siege II & Drones 659/1688 Maelstrom 8x 800mm Auto II & Drones 534/1800 Dominix 6x Electron II & 5x Ogre II 839/1195 6x Electron II & 5x Hammerhead II 601/1195 Megathron 7x Neutron II & 1x Siege II & Drones 699/2789 Megathron Navy Issue 7x Neutron II & 1x Siege II & Drones 699/2789 Hyperion 8x Neutron II & Drones 708/3188 Vindicator 7x Neutron II & 1x Siege II & Drones 699/2789 Nightmare 4x MPL II & Drones 640/2732 Machariel 6x 800mm Auto II & 2x Siege II & Drones 659/1688 Paladin 4x MPL II & Drones 602/2732 Golem 4x Siege & Drones 634/4950 4x Cruise & Drones 423/3300 Kronos 4x Neutron II & Drones 679/3188 Vargur 4x 800mm Auto II & Drones 566/1800 A brief examination shows that the missile boats are quite low in the DPS range but are outstripped by the gunboats. Siege-CNR does well, however. The Dominix, using Ogre IIs, far outstrips everything else with a blaster setup! With the default Hammerhead IIs it falls within the range of the other setups. Granted, Neutrons are an extremely difficult fit with any sort of defense, but this shows that Gallente boats in close are pain incarnate. The Amarr boats, unfortunately, do not fare so well except for Arma and Aba. Not only is their DPS 'par fare', but it's in the range of most resisted damage. Minmatar ships ran close behind the Gallente for sheer DPS, but like Neutrons the heavy fitting reqs of 800mm T2 guns limits defensive setups. Note that many of the faction boats, both Naval and Pirate, do not offer much (if any at all) more damage than their T1 counterparts, but their other advantages extend their survivability rather than their damage dealing potential.
the member Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:05:00 - [18] Originally by: Daddy Xerox 530/638 there is nothing better than hand-picked, well-chosen font colors, causing your pupils suffer from mydriasis Quote: "You're obviously from France." -- Intel CEO Paul Ottelini
Daddy Xerox	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:13:00 - [19] Originally by: the member Originally by: Daddy Xerox 530/638 there is nothing better than hand-picked, well-chosen font colors, causing your pupils suffer from mydriasis Uhr, yeah, I always forget the flat gray the forums use. Green has lousy contrast... sorry.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:55:00 - [20] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 06/02/2008 11:58:38 Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 06/02/2008 11:58:17 Now filter out of that list all ships with ranges of less than 40km, and add in those missing long range fits (arty Matari and Megabeam/Tachy Amarr), and we have something remotely useful for missioning... Though even without listing anything, there is no question that Nightmare, Kronos, Paladin, Golem and CNR are the best mission ships. Which is best for someone specific depends largely on what agents you use. I hear Caldari agents are giving missions against a wide variety of NPCs, here the missile ships win. Amarr otoh give (at least to me) 90% against EM weak stuff, which means Lasers are win. And Gallente is probably where the Kronos comes into its own. The perfect mission ship is imho a combination of Raven/CNR and either Kronos or one of the high damage Laser boats. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Daddy Xerox	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:00:00 - [21] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Now filter out of that list all ships with ranges of less than 40km, and add in those missing lang range fits (arty Matari and Megabeam/Tachy Amarr), and we have something remotely useful for missioning... I was using a uniform fitting of short range and missiles. I could have looked into long range fits, but for the basics of seeing which ships perform better in the DPS (not tankability) arena it's pretty informative. Indeed, sniping mission setups have a completely different schema but I'll leave that for someone else to explore. Since many missions drop you smack into the middle of the mix long range setups have to be approached very differently.
Durzel Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:09:00 - [22] Is a Raven/CNR effective without a ridiculously expensive faction XL booster though (Gist B or X-Type)? I've heard mixed messages about it.
Thora Zoltral	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:22:00 - [23] So why is no one thinking about the Rattlesnake? I fly this one and I must say it's better than my CNR. The Tank is incredible. This ship is a Tankmonster in my opinion. High 6x Dread Guristas Cruise Missile Launcher 1x Tractor Beam (for some cans in missions) 1x Heavy Diminishing NOS (for Nossing Blood Raiders) Med 1x Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster 3x Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field 2x Shield Boost Amplifier T2 Low 2x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control Unit 4x True Sansha Power Diagnostic System Compared with a full Crystal Set you get 1580 Shield every 4 seconds. Everything can run 24/7 what's really needed cause of the large amount of disconnects. I don't have in mind the resistance but everything should be near 80% and above. I like this ship more than the CNR. Maybe not everone is flying that like the CNR The equipment ist not really expensive, maybe the Shield Booster, but the Imp Set prices are horrible... So think about this ship.
Grainsalt Free-Corp Foundation Liberty Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:18:00 - [24] Golem... The only resaon I say that is it is not down to raw DPS. It is ALMOST as good as a CNR.. It is better against BS's but worse against frigs, BUT it effectively has an inbuilt shield booster. But the big advantage is that I used to use a CNR + a Navy Issue Mega for looting but now I only use 1 ship. Takes less time to complete missions and salvage them. = More profit. --- http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=554257
xHUN73R	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:52:00 - [25] This rattlesnake is just underpowered and overtanked. For the same money(what, 2 bils?) the Navy thron will have 20% more DPS(not counting havy/sentry drones, with the - even more) and still tank almost every mission.
Polly Prissypantz	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:08:00 - [26] Golem 4 lyf yo. (I've given up repeating the same arguments)
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:17:00 - [27] Originally by: Daddy Xerox I was using a uniform fitting of short range and missiles. I could have looked into long range fits, but for the basics of seeing which ships perform better in the DPS (not tankability) arena it's pretty informative. No, it's not informative at all. (Notice I both underlined and bolded that ) You did a lot of work for little or no benefit. Not only are there more variables then simple weapon dps, your dps figures aren't even correct at all. Some ships can fit more damage mods with equal tank then others, some ships need enhancement modules where others are covered by bonuses. Fitting the same drones for all ships, regardless of drone bay size and setup doesn't make any sense either. Blasters have the highest dps of shortrange weapons, rails have the lowest dps of longrange weapons (or close to it at least), yet blasters are wortless in missions. Deducing anything from blaster figures is meaningless. If a list like that is to be of any use, first do as Leandro said (removing almost all of your entries), then make a tank requirement and reserve proper slots and fitting costs, then fit appropriate guns, and finish it out with appropriate mods + appropriate drones. Only then will you have something that is sorta informative, or at least sometihng you can work from, to eventually get to a point where you can draw some conclusions.
Lil Mule	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:32:00 - [28] Originally by: Durzel Is a Raven/CNR effective without a ridiculously expensive faction XL booster though (Gist B or X-Type)? I've heard mixed messages about it. Yes. I can perma run my XL SB II. Ive only felt slightly threatened with that setup once or twice. It was very easy however to knock down the warp scramblers given the amount of shields I could perma boost, and then simply warp off. Its a rarity for me to have to warp off. I would reccomend a faction Shield Boost Amplifier however. The DPS of the Raven isnt that hot, but at the same time its a tanking pig, and is relatively easy to pilot, plus if you have just a standard Raven, the threat of losing it is relatively low as its fairly well covered by insurance (compared to Tech II ships). ----------------------------------------------- People enjoy flying Amarr for the same reason they like being tied up in leather, whipped and called names
Red Harvest	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:39:00 - [29] It really depends a lot on the pilots preferences how to fit/fly his BS in a mission. I for example wont use a missile boat (cant stand the waiting time till i get a hit) and unless i know that im jumping right into the middle of the npcs i wont fit anything close range and even then the tachyons have good enough tracking (on the nightmare) to bring anything down larger than a cruiser very fast.
Icarus Starkiller Minmatar	Posted - 2008.02.07 02:58:00 - [30] Qui Shon, I believe it's called a 'hypothetical examination of fixed data across multiple platforms'. If the guy had gone and specifically tried to set up each ship with every friggin configuration available the results would have taken up three pages. But, on the other hand, it is not indicative of how much DPS a particular ship can put out because everyone has their personal cookie cutter setups or FoTM. I, for instance, prefer the Machariel or Fleet Tempest, both of which have the same stats overall. The Mach gets a tracking bonus, and with an Onerios puttering along it can get frig-class tracking from 800mm autos. Heck, I am easily able to get better than cruiser-class tracking from my 1400 T2 arties. So, does that increase the Mach's DPS? Nope... but it lets that monster hit frigs orbiting at 2k with BS guns. - Life is pain...anyone who says differently is selling something.

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