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Why No Khanid BS?

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Min Seong Amarr Brotherhood of the Sword	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:48:00 - [1] I was thinking; because of all the Amarr adjustments and what not latley. Why is there no Khanid BS for the Amarr? I believe it would be the perfect addition to the Amarr fleet and really provide that well rounded feeling that some people have been looking for but currently don't feel with the current selection of ships that are available to them. It would provide this class a ships a slightly different play style from the other Amarr boats just as the smaller Khanid counterparts do. Perhaps do this in place of the Apoc sniper change. So.. why not CCP?
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:50:00 - [2] Because Amarr shoot lazors _________________ Burn. CCP Navigator was here and left some green text and bars _____________ _____________
Xanos Blackpaw Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:51:00 - [3] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Because Amarr shoot lazors khanid is no more amarr than angels are minmatar Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi".
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:53:00 - [4] I will droll over Abaddon with missel bonus. Make it liek Sacrilge pleaze. Armagedon and Apocalpse can be lazor ships. I love to be Amarr. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Min Seong Amarr Brotherhood of the Sword	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:56:00 - [5] Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Because Amarr shoot lazors khanid is no more amarr than angels are minmatar That is NOT true. The Amarr have Khanid ships in thier selection already and are not a full fledged pirate faction with their own ships like the Angels. That is like saying they should add the Angels faction ships to the Minmitar fleet.
Ricardo Phallus	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:57:00 - [6] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I will droll over Abaddon with missel bonus. Make it liek Sacrilge pleaze. Armagedon and Apocalpse can be lazor ships. I love to be Amarr. Epic.
Silas Vitalia Khanid Provincial Vanguard	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:00:00 - [7] /signed Let's get our Khanid Apoc or Khanid Abaddon. Copy the same bonuses as the Sarilege, just swap HAMs for Cruise missles. Done. Silas Vitalia CEO Khanid Provincial Vanguard Public Comm "KhanidPublic"
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:01:00 - [8] The New Armageddon: 5% Bonus to missile damage per level 5% Bonus to Armor Resistances per level -7 Turret Hardpoints, +7 Missile Hardpoints -1 High Slot +1 Mid Slot Thoughts? ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:01:00 - [9] Aren't Sansha technically the Amarr-style pirate faction (like Angels are to Minmatar, Serps to Gallente)? And aren't Khanid ships T2? Not a different faction at all, any more that CreoDron are different to Gallente? ------ Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:06:00 - [10] Originally by: Patch86 Aren't Sansha technically the Amarr-style pirate faction (like Angels are to Minmatar, Serps to Gallente)? And aren't Khanid ships T2? Not a different faction at all, any more that CreoDron are different to Gallente? Sansha is the Amarr pirate faction indeed. But theres a twist to them. Sansha, after the recent update, are shield tankers now. And Khanid is a "breakoff" from Amarr, but they do the T2 amarr ships :) Unlike Amarr, Khanid use split systems between missile and lasers, but they seem to favor missiles.
Tahlma Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:07:00 - [11] No real need to make huge changes to a ship to make it useful to missle spammers. Just give any Amarr BS 7-8 missile turrets. You don't need a bonus just more missile turrets than the Raven. Does it really need to be black? Can't it just say that Khandid helped in the design in the description?
Slade Hoo Amarr Space Research and Development Phoenix Allianz	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:11:00 - [12] just imagine....you all know the EoM-Armageddon Model? its color scheme is like khanid. I'd pay anything to fly a black-blue-coloured geddon mit torps! Amarr supreme!
Silas Vitalia Khanid Provincial Vanguard	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:11:00 - [13] Originally by: Patch86 Aren't Sansha technically the Amarr-style pirate faction (like Angels are to Minmatar, Serps to Gallente)? And aren't Khanid ships T2? Not a different faction at all, any more that CreoDron are different to Gallente? The Amarr-style pirates are the Blood Raiders, using the same Amarr ship models with different color schemes. Sansha's Nation are thier own animal with unique ship models. Ignoring all the lore, Khanid ships can be thought of simply like any other T2 manufacturer, where "x" company ships have similar paint styles and bonuses. So instead of 'Lai Dai' for some Caldari vessels, 'Khanid Innovations' is what you see listed, etc. Silas Vitalia CEO Khanid Provincial Vanguard Public Comm "KhanidPublic"
Silas Vitalia Khanid Provincial Vanguard	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:16:00 - [14] Originally by: LaVista Vista And Khanid is a "breakoff" from Amarr, but they do the T2 amarr ships :) Unlike Amarr, Khanid use split systems between missile and lasers, but they seem to favor missiles. This is correct pre a few patches ago. All of the old Khanid t2 ships were sort of bastard children of amarr and caldari boats, with insufficient slot layouts to be successful as either missle or laser boats, and as either shield or armor tankers. The "Khanid MK II" patch we got like 6 months ago changed things across the board, so khanid ships are now strictly armor tanking missle boats. People are -generally- quite happy with the new changes, as amarr pilots now have plenty of cap to use for things other than lasers, and are having some fun learning HAM and rocket skills. What we -don't- have yet is any amarr ship that can use cruise missles or torpedos. It makes sense logically for there to be a khanid version of an amarr battleship, since we have khanid versions of every other ship class below capitals. Amarr players have one missle/armor tanking option for frigates/interceptors/cruisers/battlecruisers/ but nothing for battleships yet, hence the OP. Silas Vitalia CEO Khanid Provincial Vanguard Public Comm "KhanidPublic"
Danjira Ryuujin Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:24:00 - [15] Originally by: Tarminic The New Armageddon: 5% Bonus to missile damage per level 5% Bonus to Armor Resistances per level -7 Turret Hardpoints, +7 Missile Hardpoints -1 High Slot +1 Mid Slot Thoughts? Seriously? Why change an already good ship. Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005
Min Seong Amarr Brotherhood of the Sword	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:26:00 - [16] Originally by: Silas Vitalia Originally by: LaVista Vista And Khanid is a "breakoff" from Amarr, but they do the T2 amarr ships :) Unlike Amarr, Khanid use split systems between missile and lasers, but they seem to favor missiles. This is correct pre a few patches ago. All of the old Khanid t2 ships were sort of bastard children of amarr and caldari boats, with insufficient slot layouts to be successful as either missle or laser boats, and as either shield or armor tankers. The "Khanid MK II" patch we got like 6 months ago changed things across the board, so khanid ships are now strictly armor tanking missle boats. People are -generally- quite happy with the new changes, as amarr pilots now have plenty of cap to use for things other than lasers, and are having some fun learning HAM and rocket skills. What we -don't- have yet is any amarr ship that can use cruise missles or torpedos. It makes sense logically for there to be a khanid version of an amarr battleship, since we have khanid versions of every other ship class below capitals. Amarr players have one missle/armor tanking option for frigates/interceptors/cruisers/battlecruisers/ but nothing for battleships yet, hence the OP. Thank you Silas. This is exaclty what i was trying to say. I'm a bit short on time to write all that though as I'm at work.
Mr Reeth Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:58:00 - [17] Edited by: Mr Reeth on 05/02/2008 19:58:31 Originally by: Tarminic The New Armageddon: 5% Bonus to missile damage per level 5% Bonus to Armor Resistances per level -7 Turret Hardpoints, +7 Missile Hardpoints -1 High Slot +1 Mid Slot Thoughts? No. Not only does this remove a great, cheap laser ship but it would be a better missile boat than the Raven... which is 1 tier higher BTW. And lets not forget the Geddon has a giant drone bay.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:05:00 - [18] Originally by: Silas Vitalia The Amarr-style pirates are the Blood Raiders, using the same Amarr ship models with different color schemes. Doh, I knew that. Silly me. As an aside, isn't it strange that Minmatar (the race, incidentally, with the piratiest looking ships, and the piratiest play style) are the only one of the four big races to NOT have a pirate faction using their ship models? ------ Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.
Sileam	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:09:00 - [19] Edited by: Sileam on 05/02/2008 20:11:46 Signed for Khanid BS! Im quite disapointed with Caldari and I've been looking forward to play Amarr Khanid faction, altough a gap between HAC and COMMAND SHIP looks ...strange. A torpedo platform would be more than nice IMHO. Go go Khanid Battleships :)
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:11:00 - [20] Originally by: Mr Reeth Edited by: Mr Reeth on 05/02/2008 19:58:31 Originally by: Tarminic The New Armageddon: 5% Bonus to missile damage per level 5% Bonus to Armor Resistances per level -7 Turret Hardpoints, +7 Missile Hardpoints -1 High Slot +1 Mid Slot Thoughts? No. Not only does this remove a great, cheap laser ship but it would be a better missile boat than the Raven... which is 1 tier higher BTW. And lets not forget the Geddon has a giant drone bay. Fair enough, though I think many Amarr pilots would enjoy a battleship that can (completely) choose it's damage types, especially for PvE. The reason I tried changing the 'geddon is because people seem very happy with the recent Apoc changes and the Abaddon seems quite popular as well. What would you suggest as a Khanid battleship, if anything? ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:37:00 - [21] Edited by: Setana Manoro on 05/02/2008 20:39:05 Edited by: Setana Manoro on 05/02/2008 20:37:58 Originally by: Tarminic The New Armageddon: 5% Bonus to missile damage per level 5% Bonus to Armor Resistances per level -7 Turret Hardpoints, +7 Missile Hardpoints -1 High Slot +1 Mid Slot Thoughts? Overpowered and stupid. You give up a high that you don't need for a med that you depserately need. Now if that was -2 lows, +1 med, it would be different. Next, it's the DPS. Raven with bs 5 = 6x1.33 = 7.98 launchers at bs 5 This geddon with bs 5 = 7x1.25 = 8.75 launchers at bs 5. Another reason for the -2 lows, +1 mid instead of keeping the 8 LOWS. Oh, and if such a design would pass, it would be with Torps, as Khanid have no long range missile damage bonus on their ships, it's not in their ships philosophy. Oh, and CCP would probably buff it's CPU, and lower it's PG, but i doubt they would give it the CPU for 7 t2 siege launchers and active armor tank. Apocalypse would probably be better with this change. But it will have to be stuck with 6 Siege launchers.
Mr Reeth Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Mr Reeth Edited by: Mr Reeth on 05/02/2008 19:58:31 Originally by: Tarminic The New Armageddon: 5% Bonus to missile damage per level 5% Bonus to Armor Resistances per level -7 Turret Hardpoints, +7 Missile Hardpoints -1 High Slot +1 Mid Slot Thoughts? No. Not only does this remove a great, cheap laser ship but it would be a better missile boat than the Raven... which is 1 tier higher BTW. And lets not forget the Geddon has a giant drone bay. Fair enough, though I think many Amarr pilots would enjoy a battleship that can (completely) choose it's damage types, especially for PvE. The reason I tried changing the 'geddon is because people seem very happy with the recent Apoc changes and the Abaddon seems quite popular as well. What would you suggest as a Khanid battleship, if anything? Caldari are the PvE missile kings... it defines them. We cannot be better than them at that. Khanid are fastish short range missile users. Get in close as fast as you can then hit hard. So it stands to reason that the Khanid ship should have a damage bonus to torps only. As for the second bonus... it could be +5% speed, +5% resists or +5% cap. The real issue here is tech 2 or not tech 2? I really see no problem with making a new tech 1 Khanid BS. There are enough Amarr BS skins out there that you wouldn't really need to design a whole new ship. And why not let Amarr have 4 BSs? We've got less frigs than every one else, and the Gallente have more industrial ships than everyone else. And while we are making tech 1 Khanid ships... how about we make the Maller a missle boat too! And what the heck... toss in the Proph too.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:42:00 - [23] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 05/02/2008 20:42:13 Originally by: Mr Reeth And while we are making tech 1 Khanid ships... how about we make the Maller a missle boat too! And what the heck... toss in the Proph too. Yes pleaze. I fully supprot this. It is about time we have proper missel ships for PVP. I do fly Amar ships. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:52:00 - [24] Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 05/02/2008 20:55:00 Originally by: Tarminic The New Armageddon: 5% Bonus to missile damage per level 5% Bonus to Armor Resistances per level -7 Turret Hardpoints, +7 Missile Hardpoints -1 High Slot +1 Mid Slot Thoughts? It's not very Khanid-like. Carthum ships get the tank bonuses, Khanid ships get short range missile bonus and some kind of e-war bonus, or something totally out of character like the Arbitrator. Let's use our imagination a bit. How about: 6 missile, 4 turret hardpoints -1 high slot, -1 low slot, +2 mid slot 5% bonus to Torpedo damage per level 15% bonus to RADAR sensor strength per level I've never seen a ship with a sensor strength bonus, but it seems like a rather Khanid thing to have. This Torp spammer would be hard to jam. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
JamnOne Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.05 21:02:00 - [25] Yes a Khanid BS does sound like it would be cool. Right now I am waiting for the changes announced in the Dev Blog to the Amarr ships and see what happens before I jump on any new band wagon for more ships or adjustments to ships. ________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler So, it's all my fault. Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Retreat Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2008.02.05 21:13:00 - [26] Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 05/02/2008 21:14:42 Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 05/02/2008 21:13:33 Originally by: Guillame Herschel It's not very Khanid-like. Carthum ships get the tank bonuses, Khanid ships get short range missile bonus and some kind of e-war bonus, or something totally out of character like the Arbitrator. You may want to check your Khanid ships: Malediction, Vengeance, Sacrilige and Damnation all have +5% resistance/lvl bonuses. Apart from that: I'm all for a khanid torpedo ship.
Steakkbone Helios Incorporated Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.05 21:20:00 - [27] Originally by: Tarminic The New Armageddon: 5% Bonus to missile damage per level 5% Bonus to Armor Resistances per level -7 Turret Hardpoints, +7 Missile Hardpoints -1 High Slot +1 Mid Slot Thoughts? I would cry.
Ivor Gunn No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition	Posted - 2008.02.05 21:24:00 - [28] Originally by: Tarminic The New Armageddon: 5% Bonus to missile damage per level 5% Bonus to Armor Resistances per level -7 Turret Hardpoints, +7 Missile Hardpoints -1 High Slot +1 Mid Slot Thoughts? Trying too hard, tarmy. Surprised so many took it.
Don Juanito	Posted - 2008.02.05 21:24:00 - [29] no. if you want a good place to use your missile skills, train for the sac, or spend a week training caldari bs 4.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.02.05 21:24:00 - [30] Edited by: Tarminic on 05/02/2008 21:25:22 Edited by: Tarminic on 05/02/2008 21:24:56 Originally by: Mr Reeth Caldari are the PvE missile kings... it defines them. We cannot be better than them at that. Bah, I think it would be great if any ship could compete directly with the Raven, though the points made about it being significantly better despite being a tier lower are quite valid. Quote: Khanid are fastish short range missile users. Get in close as fast as you can then hit hard. So it stands to reason that the Khanid ship should have a damage bonus to torps only. As for the second bonus... it could be +5% speed, +5% resists or +5% cap. Makes sense. The speed bonus seems a bit strange on an Amarr ship and the resistance bonus is already on the Abaddon, so I like the 5% cap one. I thought about considering a MWD bonus but that seems more like the Gallente specialization and the capacitor bonus has the effect of canceling out the MWD penalty (in addition to being more useful overall). What about the slot layout? I think that it could stand to sacrifice a high slot for a mid slot. As for hardpoints, would 5 be appropriate for a tier 1 battleship or would that be too few? If it only had 5 launcher hardpoints you could use the extra two for Nos or Neutralizers (that's something to consider - what about a neutralizer range bonus?). Quote: The real issue here is tech 2 or not tech 2? I really see no problem with making a new tech 1 Khanid BS. There are enough Amarr BS skins out there that you wouldn't really need to design a whole new ship. And why not let Amarr have 4 BSs? We've got less frigs than every one else, and the Gallente have more industrial ships than everyone else. Hrm, that's true. I don't think it's especially likely but it would be interesting. Quote: And while we are making tech 1 Khanid ships... how about we make the Maller a missle boat too! And what the heck... toss in the Proph too. Not an expert on either, but I don't see many Prophecies around anymore so it could probably use an improvement. Originally by: Ivor Gunn Trying too hard, tarmy. Surprised so many took it. Actually that was serious. I'm just showing off my noobishness with Amarr. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2

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