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A thought on Nano HAC's and how to balance them

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Chencherra Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad	Posted - 2008.02.12 11:35:00 - [31] Originally by: sakana There are various counters for nano-ships, but rather than attempt to use them, most people just ask for a nerf. Cause I mean...that worked out well for the Amarr recons didnt it....oh and the Gallente recons........ /signed
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.12 12:59:00 - [32] Originally by: Vanessa Vale Since you had to mention the ship you will notice that the vagabond does in general have to turn off the mwd to make any kind of damage. And that turning off the mwd makes it very very hittable by drones, guns and missiles. You may also notice that each time you switch on and off the mwd put you into closer or further away orbits even for the same set distance. And that its easy to either slip out of disruptor range or get into web range or be too far away to make any kind of damage. CCP should make a fly-a-vagabond week. Reaction to seeing a Vagabond on scan while piloting a Hurricane (or even a passive semi-nano Cyclone which really doesn't tank worth crap): lol, Vagabond on scan. Reaction to seeing a Ishtar/Sacriledge on scan: Hmmm.... let's safe up and align to somewhere. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Jonny MoJo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.12 13:55:00 - [33] Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin Longest range blaster ammo for a mega is Iron Charge L - and with maxed skills, you're STILL only at 14k optimal + 13k falloff (Null is 11k + 16k). Starting at scram range, that's a long ways to be stuck in falloff approaching at 400 m/s with your AB (or 160 w/o ...), assuming you don't have trimark rigs or similar on. In the meantime, the medium range ships like the Raven I mentioned earlier absolutely destroy you with no problems (sorry, I like picking on the Raven because it can achieve near-Mega level damage with a TP). Drones won't help as much as you wish unless you get lucky with an ECM drone cycle. Defenders won't do all that much to save you, even with both hardpoints fitted (and very few Gallente ships have them). Everyone already packs their 10km web, why should they get a 24km I-Win button? Mega sits on gate. Raven jumps in and uncloaks. Both target each other and scramble each other. Locking takes time so by the time the raven locks the mega and slows him to 200m/s, the mega is already at optimal with antimatter. dont kid yourself about this fictional mid range pvp - it does not exist unless you are fighing a afker or a idiot. And a after would die vs noobship so its irrelevant. Warp scrams should scramble MicroWARP drives OR have long range webs. Or nerf mwd. Either way Nano is broken and is forcing everyone to fly nano to fight nano. Bring on 24km webs. Refresh for next Real life CCP Sig(21 Total)
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.02.12 16:50:00 - [34] Originally by: Jonny MoJo Warp scrams should scramble MicroWARP drives OR have long range webs. Or nerf mwd. Either way Nano is broken and is forcing everyone to fly nano to fight nano. Bring on 24km webs. Or nerf amarr. What? It makes no sense? Just like your post. Arguing that warp disruptors should disable mwds just because they have a certain similarity in the same is stupid. --
Valharu	Posted - 2008.02.12 17:17:00 - [35] Or nerf amarr. What? It makes no sense? Just like your post. Arguing that warp disruptors should disable mwds just because they have a certain similarity in the same is stupid. -- [IMAGE REMOVED] The above made no sense. That is like saying putting sugar in the gas tank of a Car wont affect a Plane, just cause they both use a engine and a gas fuel doesnt make them simuliar.
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2008.02.12 17:33:00 - [36] Edited by: Agil TradeAlt on 12/02/2008 17:33:35 Originally by: Vanessa Vale Originally by: Jonny MoJo Warp scrams should scramble MicroWARP drives OR have long range webs. Or nerf mwd. Either way Nano is broken and is forcing everyone to fly nano to fight nano. Bring on 24km webs. Or nerf amarr. What? It makes no sense? Just like your post. Arguing that warp disruptors should disable mwds just because they have a certain similarity in the same is stupid. Let us assume there is no module called MWD in eve. Got that? Now let us add a new module called Nijitsu. Anyone who fits this module can gain almost 100% resist to all missiles and turret tracking, and can travel at speeds between 4k to 15k, depending on how dedicated a Ninjitsu pilot he is. As long as the nijitsu pilot has a brain, he can run away like a ninja after making a cheap gank without commiting to any risky fight. Such is the power of Ninjitsu. THe Ninjitsu module pilots cannot be captured unless they are stupid or lagged or fighting other ninjitsu pilots. Even the Huggin pilots need ninjitsu training otherwise they cannot keep a ninjitsu pilot from running. Sounds unbalanced? Well it is. This "Ninjitsu" module, that turns anyone into Ninja, is called the nano setup. So now that name is out of it, jojo's idea of long Range webs and scrams is better than leaving such a "Ninjitsu" module ingame
Chencherra Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad	Posted - 2008.02.12 17:46:00 - [37] yeh I once hated those pesky vagabonds, I wasnt able to make them stop. So I skilled for the rapier. End. Maybe Im gonna edit my post when everyone uses nanoships.
Jade190	Posted - 2008.02.12 17:49:00 - [38] So if nano gangs are broken, why have I seen them die all the time? It's not that they are broken, it's that you incompetant, ignorant, immature forum whiners can't see the obvious way to kill them. You are too busy throwing the same setup into the same situation and expecting a different outcome (Einstein's definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.) Use your brain and think for once instead of expecting mommy and daddy (CCP in this case) to solve all your problems for you. Stop trying to make your life easier by pooing in your pants and crying like a baby whenever things don't go the way you want. Life's not fair, Eve's not fair.
Pheonix Kanan Caldari TH3 C4K3	Posted - 2008.02.12 17:51:00 - [39] Originally by: Chencherra yeh I once hated those pesky vagabonds, I wasnt able to make them stop. So I skilled for the rapier. End. Maybe Im gonna edit my post when everyone uses nanoships. Curse can do it too. But it takes a little more skill, which is why I like it as a solution -----
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2008.02.12 18:01:00 - [40] Edited by: Agil TradeAlt on 12/02/2008 18:02:39 Originally by: Jade190 So if nano gangs are broken, why have I seen them die all the time? It's not that they are broken, it's that you incompetant, ignorant, immature forum whiners can't see the obvious way to kill them. You are too busy throwing the same setup into the same situation and expecting a different outcome (Einstein's definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.) Use your brain and think for once instead of expecting mommy and daddy (CCP in this case) to solve all your problems for you. Stop trying to make your life easier by pooing in your pants and crying like a baby whenever things don't go the way you want. Life's not fair, Eve's not fair. 12km/s domi's were killed. But a tone more 12k/ms domies survived and thus never came on killboard. So were those 20 km/s typhoons. Remember those? Are you saying that a 20,000m/s typhoon was perfectly acceptable? This was prior to first nano-nerf. Face it - nano is broke. here let me give you an example. How could a gang of amarr, gallente, caldari and minmatar, all in NON-NANO setups fight a nanogang and win? I await your answer.
Jade190	Posted - 2008.02.12 18:16:00 - [41] Originally by: Agil TradeAlt 12km/s domi's were killed. But a tone more 12k/ms domies survived and thus never came on killboard. So were those 20 km/s typhoons. Remember those? Are you saying that a 20,000m/s typhoon was perfectly acceptable? This was prior to first nano-nerf. Face it - nano is broke. here let me give you an example. How could a gang of amarr, gallente, caldari and minmatar, all in NON-NANO setups fight a nanogang and win? I await your answer. Please redefine the question. Are the gangs consisting of only one race or all of them. If they are jst one race, then you are an idiot. That's like brining a sniper rifle into an office building while everyone else has SMGs. OF COURSE YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE. Your gang needs versatility. Beside the obvious stupidity you seem to show, I'll give you the privilege of an answer. USE A DAMN RAPIER. USE A DAMN CURSE. (Neither of which are REQUIRED to fit nano in order to use the nano stopping webs and neuts) There is your answer. Two ships. Two different races. Want more? ECM works well against a lot of things...including nano gangs (and spider tanks). You don't need nano to beat nano, you need planning to beat nano.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.02.12 18:17:00 - [42] There are plenty of counters to nanos. Though I wouldn't mind if precision missiles were a tad more effective. Right now past a certain speed missiles to nothing. As for the "problem" with ships running off... The faster ship should always be able to get away whether it's going 7k/sec or 300m/sec. Some of you sound like you want ships locked into combat until someone pops. Generally big lumbering ships have more armor and/or firepower at the expense of speed and agility. TBH though, I wish MWDs and webs had never been put in the game in the first place. Right now they balance each other out, but there's no mid-speed combat within web range... and if you're not going superfast, you're gonna get webbed. The problem isn't one mod, it's both of em.
Sonya Rayner Unicorn Enterprise Blind Octopus	Posted - 2008.02.12 18:25:00 - [43] Just bring back the old formula for AB/MWD speed bonus, when it was capped at the "Maximum speed bonus" (it used to be maxSpeed or (mass + mwdMassBonus)/mwdThrust - whichever is the lowest), which is clearly stated for any AB/MWD module. This will make polycarbons useable only for heavy ships (like assault frigs, destroyers, BCs - anything that is way-too-heavy for it's class ABs) - whose mass is greater than AB's bonus. ____________________
Chencherra Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad	Posted - 2008.02.12 19:45:00 - [44] Edited by: Chencherra on 12/02/2008 19:45:31 Originally by: Pheonix Kanan Originally by: Chencherra yeh I once hated those pesky vagabonds, I wasnt able to make them stop. So I skilled for the rapier. End. Maybe Im gonna edit my post when everyone uses nanoships. Curse can do it too. But it takes a little more skill, which is why I like it as a solution curse is on my "all-races-ships-skilled"-list. but dunno why it takes a lil more skill ?!?!
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2008.02.12 22:49:00 - [45] Edited by: Agil TradeAlt on 12/02/2008 22:52:40 Originally by: Jade190 Originally by: Agil TradeAlt 12km/s domi's were killed. But a tone more 12k/ms domies survived and thus never came on killboard. So were those 20 km/s typhoons. Remember those? Are you saying that a 20,000m/s typhoon was perfectly acceptable? This was prior to first nano-nerf. Face it - nano is broke. here let me give you an example. How could a gang of amarr, gallente, caldari and minmatar, all in NON-NANO setups fight a nanogang and win? I await your answer. Please redefine the question. Are the gangs consisting of only one race or all of them. If they are jst one race, then you are an idiot. That's like brining a sniper rifle into an office building while everyone else has SMGs. OF COURSE YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE. Your gang needs versatility. Beside the obvious stupidity you seem to show, I'll give you the privilege of an answer. USE A DAMN RAPIER. USE A DAMN CURSE. (Neither of which are REQUIRED to fit nano in order to use the nano stopping webs and neuts) There is your answer. Two ships. Two different races. Want more? ECM works well against a lot of things...including nano gangs (and spider tanks). You don't need nano to beat nano, you need planning to beat nano. Non-Nano gang wont beat nanogang. A non-nanoed curse wont have fitting to fit neuts, but even if it did, it wont beat a nanogang as nanogang will be able to dictate terms. Non-Nano curse is worthless in a gang currently. Non-nano rapier? What you going to do with that vs nanogang? Sit and hope that nanogang members are idiots like NPC's? A non-nano gang cannot win. It can only pray that the nanogang does not engage. Thats about it really. The anti-nano ships you mention such as curse and rapier are actually used in nanosetups in the real world because nanoships are too fast. So I ask you the question again - how does a non-nano gang kill a nanogang? The answer is that until you get a web bubble or long range webs, you cannot.
Jade190	Posted - 2008.02.12 23:03:00 - [46] Originally by: Agil TradeAlt Non-Nano gang wont beat nanogang. A non-nanoed curse wont have fitting to fit neuts, but even if it did, it wont beat a nanogang as nanogang will be able to dictate terms. Non-Nano curse is worthless in a gang currently. Non-nano rapier? What you going to do with that vs nanogang? Sit and hope that nanogang members are idiots like NPC's? A non-nano gang cannot win. It can only pray that the nanogang does not engage. Thats about it really. The anti-nano ships you mention such as curse and rapier are actually used in nanosetups in the real world because nanoships are too fast. So I ask you the question again - how does a non-nano gang kill a nanogang? The answer is that until you get a web bubble or long range webs, you cannot. So the pathetic excuse you call your brain is unable to comprehend the solution? Really, do I have to spell it out for you so that your 5 year old can understand? TRAP THEM. CURSES AND RAPIERS HAVE CLOAKS. USE THEM. You can't fit the neuts? Use rigs. Can't fit the webs? Come on... don't bs me. You know you can fit it all. Here's what I see: You are flying "rock" and "paper" beats you. Now you want to nerf paper because it beats your rock. You just want to whine and whine and throw a temper tantrum until you get your way, just like a 4 year old. Grow up. If you don't want to set up your ships and your gang correctly, then don't complain when you lose. Why should everyone be punished because you are a completely epic failure of a pilot and leader?
Valharu	Posted - 2008.02.13 04:28:00 - [47] I understood your concept but it still didnt make any sense do to the fact you put your own spin on it and have no proof that CCP was to stupid to name it for what they probably ment it to repersent. It is most likely they called it a MWD to repersent what the name said and the responses were correctly done in accordence with it. Even if you call it a Nija Drive or my name for it, Dummy Drive for making combat easy. Its still idiotic that ANY ship can go so fast as to out strip its own size class in hit protential for weapons. I think what went wrong is that Speed Tanking somehow became a acceptable concept instead of a means for fast striking and moving on. Best case, it would be a idiot design flaw that some how made it through. And of couse gankaloosers everywhere would automaticly take advantage of it. Speed tanking as a concept is a breaker in any system, it always causes a break down as we are seeing here. Its VERY RARE that a middle ground is ever found for it. 1 for 1 speed gangs should always lose in a head up fight but come out winners when it comes to surpise and numbers on the unexpecting.
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.13 05:15:00 - [48] Originally by: Jade190 Originally by: Agil TradeAlt Non-Nano gang wont beat nanogang. A non-nanoed curse wont have fitting to fit neuts, but even if it did, it wont beat a nanogang as nanogang will be able to dictate terms. Non-Nano curse is worthless in a gang currently. Non-nano rapier? What you going to do with that vs nanogang? Sit and hope that nanogang members are idiots like NPC's? A non-nano gang cannot win. It can only pray that the nanogang does not engage. Thats about it really. The anti-nano ships you mention such as curse and rapier are actually used in nanosetups in the real world because nanoships are too fast. So I ask you the question again - how does a non-nano gang kill a nanogang? The answer is that until you get a web bubble or long range webs, you cannot. So the pathetic excuse you call your brain is unable to comprehend the solution? Really, do I have to spell it out for you so that your 5 year old can understand? TRAP THEM. CURSES AND RAPIERS HAVE CLOAKS. USE THEM. You can't fit the neuts? Use rigs. Can't fit the webs? Come on... don't bs me. You know you can fit it all. Here's what I see: You are flying "rock" and "paper" beats you. Now you want to nerf paper because it beats your rock. You just want to whine and whine and throw a temper tantrum until you get your way, just like a 4 year old. Grow up. If you don't want to set up your ships and your gang correctly, then don't complain when you lose. Why should everyone be punished because you are a completely epic failure of a pilot and leader? I think if I were paid $5 for every duplicated non-creative response to "nerf nano-gang" threads, I'd be worth millions. Your cookie-cutter child like response is tiresome, and quite frankly offensive to the adult population who play EvE. Rather than reply respectively, and possibly just agreeing to disagree, you spew hostile demeaning crap, and that's just plain unacceptable. Go back to picking your nose, or fingering your nine-toed sister, brat. Better yet, cancel your account and go back to WoW.
Kasity General Mayhem Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.13 08:26:00 - [49] Originally by: Y3R M4W Edited by: Y3R M4W on 08/02/2008 16:08:04 The only ship that can 'easily' kill a nanoship is a Huginn/Rapier + Friend(s), since anyone with an IQ higher than a mentally disabled flea will simply keep their 3kms ship out of standard web range. And any moron who dose not fitted a neut deserves to die.
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2008.02.13 09:48:00 - [50] Originally by: Jade190 Originally by: Agil TradeAlt Non-Nano gang wont beat nanogang. A non-nanoed curse wont have fitting to fit neuts, but even if it did, it wont beat a nanogang as nanogang will be able to dictate terms. Non-Nano curse is worthless in a gang currently. Non-nano rapier? What you going to do with that vs nanogang? Sit and hope that nanogang members are idiots like NPC's? A non-nano gang cannot win. It can only pray that the nanogang does not engage. Thats about it really. The anti-nano ships you mention such as curse and rapier are actually used in nanosetups in the real world because nanoships are too fast. So I ask you the question again - how does a non-nano gang kill a nanogang? The answer is that until you get a web bubble or long range webs, you cannot. So the pathetic excuse you call your brain is unable to comprehend the solution? Really, do I have to spell it out for you so that your 5 year old can understand? TRAP THEM. CURSES AND RAPIERS HAVE CLOAKS. USE THEM. You can't fit the neuts? Use rigs. Can't fit the webs? Come on... don't bs me. You know you can fit it all. Here's what I see: You are flying "rock" and "paper" beats you. Now you want to nerf paper because it beats your rock. You just want to whine and whine and throw a temper tantrum until you get your way, just like a 4 year old. Grow up. If you don't want to set up your ships and your gang correctly, then don't complain when you lose. Why should everyone be punished because you are a completely epic failure of a pilot and leader? Curse using cloaks? How the heck is a non-nano gang with ships such as cloaking curse going to win against a nanogang? Do you even know how slow a non-nano curse that is cloaked moves? How is your cloaking non-nano rapier going to do against nano-rapiers? Dont you get it - non-nano gang cannot win. They can hope for nano-gang not to engage. The problem is WEB - Web does not have enough Range. Imigine pvp without 24km scramblers, and everyone had 5km scramblers. PvP would be borked. Just like this, in todyas speed ago - pvp is borked as there is no long range webbers to stop nanogangs. i mean, the 20,000m/s typhoon was hideously unbalanced. So ccp nerfed it but they still need to nerf further. Nano-gangs have destroyed gang pvp, forcing people to use nanogangs to fight nanogangs. So tell us how does a NON-NANO gang win against a nano-gang?
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.13 11:38:00 - [51] Originally by: Jonny MoJo Mega sits on gate. Raven jumps in and uncloaks. Both target each other and scramble each other. Mega sits on gate. Raven jumps in, double-clicks away from the mega, turns on MWD and targets. Mega goes after him. Raven has like 30-40 seconds till the mega actually gets within webrange, and can MWD+shoot for longer to keep mega either burning cap like mad or lagging behind and dying. Originally by: Jonny MoJo Warp scrams should scramble MicroWARP drives OR have long range webs. Or nerf mwd. Either way Nano is broken and is forcing everyone to fly nano to fight nano. Bring on 24km webs. Also, let's: -delete interceptors from the game, no point in having T2 suicide ships. -delete HACs/AFs/EAFs/cruisers/BCs/frigs/CS from the game, what's the point of those? Fly a BS. (ok, maybe leave frigs/cruisers so noobs can fly something) -delete Amarr/Minmatar recons, why would anyone want to fly a <24km papership? (what's the point?) -delete blasters in general Goodbye EvE, hello battleship online. Also, JoJo, nice alt. I believe I actually own a corpse of this one Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.13 11:40:00 - [52] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 13/02/2008 11:42:32 Originally by: Agil TradeAlt So tell us how does a NON-NANO gang win against a nano-gang? Heavy neutralisers, mid-range turret ships, Interdiction Maneuvers, tacklers, minmatar EAFs/recons. Also, stop having everyone in your gang flying a BS. What you need is a commandship. Providing gang bonuses like commandships are meant to do. Get it? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.13 11:54:00 - [53] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 13/02/2008 11:57:02 Originally by: Agil TradeAlt Now let us add a new module called Nijitsu. Anyone who fits this module can gain almost 100% resist to all missiles and turret tracking, and can travel at speeds between 4k A lot of 5.5km/s ceptors trying to tackle a stupid (dual-repped, not nano) Hurricane (or my Cyclone, as well) ended up flying a pod instead of a interceptor. Not to mention the typical outcome of a say, Vagabond, attacking my (dual-repped, before you even get into 'nano' whine) Hurricane (or Cyclone, a even inferior ship). Vagabond attacks, starts orbiting. I MWD in one direction, hit F1-F8 and stick my drones on his. Vagabond gets to 50% shields in the next 30s and decides to move away, I warp off, mutual waste of Barrage M. Nano-Rapier? Same, just no MWD-ing there since there's no point. It's almost unbalanced how you force a 150M ISK HAC to disengage in a <30M loss cost BC (Cyclone) or even kill it if it slips up for a moment in a 33M loss cost BC (my typicaly Hurricane fit). Even worse, all BS have a relatively cheap 'disable MWD' button. Originally by: Agil TradeAlt THe Ninjitsu module pilots cannot be captured unless they are stupid or lagged or fighting people with a counter-fit or brains. Fixed it for you. I mean, seriously, what do you people want? Heat has given people trying to catch nano-ships a two-fold boost given people trying to catch them now have more burst speed (if you say you can heat to run, you have obviously NEVER used heat) and webs have been effectively extended to 13km. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Bonny Lee Caldari Trinitas Inc. Phoenix Allianz	Posted - 2008.02.13 12:02:00 - [54] The only problem is you can only defeat a nanogang if it makes mistakes or you have a nanogang too. They can only choose if they fight or not and if they are going to fight they will win. Cause if they come to the conclusion that they wont win there will be no fight. The only chance to kill nanogangs is a nanogang. All your other ideas only prevent your gang being attacked. But you ll never kill them.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.13 12:04:00 - [55] Originally by: Jonny MoJo Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin Longest range blaster ammo for a mega is Iron Charge L - and with maxed skills, you're STILL only at 14k optimal + 13k falloff (Null is 11k + 16k). Starting at scram range, that's a long ways to be stuck in falloff approaching at 400 m/s with your AB (or 160 w/o ...), assuming you don't have trimark rigs or similar on. In the meantime, the medium range ships like the Raven I mentioned earlier absolutely destroy you with no problems (sorry, I like picking on the Raven because it can achieve near-Mega level damage with a TP). Drones won't help as much as you wish unless you get lucky with an ECM drone cycle. Defenders won't do all that much to save you, even with both hardpoints fitted (and very few Gallente ships have them). Everyone already packs their 10km web, why should they get a 24km I-Win button? Mega sits on gate. Raven jumps in and uncloaks. Both target each other and scramble each other. Locking takes time so by the time the raven locks the mega and slows him to 200m/s, the mega is already at optimal with antimatter. dont kid yourself about this fictional mid range pvp - it does not exist unless you are fighing a afker or a idiot. And a after would die vs noobship so its irrelevant. Warp scrams should scramble MicroWARP drives OR have long range webs. Or nerf mwd. Either way Nano is broken and is forcing everyone to fly nano to fight nano. Bring on 24km webs. yeah. and also every pvp situation in EVE is 1vs1. --- planetary interaction idea!
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.13 12:15:00 - [56] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 13/02/2008 12:18:04 Originally by: Bonny Lee They can only choose if they fight or not and if they are going to fight they will win. But you do that in normal ships as well. If I don't like the odds, I'll just stay docked/safed/go away. Getting a fight is what half of PvP is about really. Or maybe you don't like the fact that 99% of them can and will pull out when you hot-drop carriers on them? Because the only fundamental difference is that it's faster to disengage if the other side suddenly has 10 more ships incoming with cyno field generators. Originally by: Bonny Lee Cause if they come to the conclusion that they wont win there will be no fight. The only chance to kill nanogangs is a nanogang. No it is not, by your logic. A nano-gang will, by your logic, never die to a nano-gang because it won't fight a nano-gang obviously. By your logic, any ship/pilot which picks its fights is by definition overpowered. I must say that's epic fail in thinking. Furthermore, you did not ONCE comment on anything which was provided, but just whined on 'duh, it cannot be done'. Which means, you fail at reasoning as well, given the total lack of response towards any counters offered. As for 'only way for nanos to die is to make a mistake' - the only real way (short of a big gatecamp involving huggins and stuff, nanos are harder to catch) to kill ANY of my ships is lag or me making a mistake (like, picking a fight I shouldn't have or making a bad tactical decision), and I don't fly any nanos really. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Lodhi Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.13 12:41:00 - [57] tbh it should be impossible to keep a orbit speed over 2k speeds for a cruiser hull inside 30k range having cruisers orbiting at 25k range at 8-12k speeds is just silly tbh and crappy game design.
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2008.02.13 12:43:00 - [58] Originally by: Agil TradeAlt So tell us how does a NON-NANO gang win against a nano-gang? How does a close range gang win against a sniper gang? By your logic snipers should be nerfed as well. If a nano ship is close enough to scramble you it's close enough to get webbed by a minnie recon or neuted by a Curse or any BS with a neut. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
Jade190	Posted - 2008.02.13 13:15:00 - [59] I think there are plenty of responses to Agil Tradealt's idiocy to show he's not thinking of a solution, just whining. So I'm done with him. Originally by: Christari Zuborov I think if I were paid $5 for every duplicated non-creative response to "nerf nano-gang" threads, I'd be worth millions. Your cookie-cutter child like response is tiresome, and quite frankly offensive to the adult population who play EvE. Rather than reply respectively, and possibly just agreeing to disagree, you spew hostile demeaning crap, and that's just plain unacceptable. Go back to picking your nose, or fingering your nine-toed sister, brat. Better yet, cancel your account and go back to WoW. As for Christari Zuborov, no one cares how much you think you're worth. The responses are "cookie cutter" because they are correct. They are valid fitting decisions that counter nano gangs, which is why you hear them so much in these threads. The problem is PEOPLE DON'T LISTEN. And guess who doesn't care about your feelings? ME. Don't like it? Then I'll just insult you more, you pathetic excuse of a meat sack. Side note: If I could destroy WoW, I would do it in a heartbeat, without thinking or remorse. I hate WoW and all it has done to the gaming community.
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2008.02.13 13:24:00 - [60] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Originally by: Agil TradeAlt So tell us how does a NON-NANO gang win against a nano-gang? How does a close range gang win against a sniper gang? By your logic snipers should be nerfed as well. If a nano ship is close enough to scramble you it's close enough to get webbed by a minnie recon or neuted by a Curse or any BS with a neut. Close range gang wins against a long range gang quite easaly. Thats why long range gangs include close range support covering their battleships. But nanogang can beat both close range gang and long range snipers. Sorry Neuts as a counter stratagy on battleships and curse's dont work. Most battleships lack utility slots so that is not a counter stratagy. Having to fit baised on predecent knowledge is incorrect and broken and is a invalid argument. Therefore your argument is invalid. How does a Non-Nano Gang WIN against a nanogang? They cannot win. They can only hope nanogang does not engage.

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