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echohead
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Posted - 2008.02.09 17:13:00 -
[1]
I was sick this week so I had a rare weekday off from work. I figured that bundling up and doing some scanning would be a perfect way to spend the day.
I spend awhile studying the starmap and cross-referencing systems by security status and population until I find a nice little cluster of 0.0 systems. I set off with probes in hand and made it there without even seeing another soul.
on my first multi I hit an unknown and a magnetometric. Things are looking up for this pilot ravaged by sickness! The scanning goes by the book with only one scan each on my quests, pursuits, combs, and sifts. Now I have both deadspaces bookmarked, time to get a combat vessel up.
But nothing is ever that easy, while scouting my combat ship back up I tragically lose my helios to a gatecamp that doesn't show up on my overview (but my ship showed up on overview as a fellow corp member, better than nothing).
And that sends me off too cool down and watch horrible daytime TV while waiting for some corpmates to sign on to give me a hand
Hours later me and a friend end up getting back to the site. The site turns out to be a mess of arch, salvage, and hacking cans all in one place. Back to empire I go to pick up the rest of my gear. Once I get back and start scanning I open most of the cans and end up with about 1 mil in salvage, and the rest of the cans need lvl5 skills to open. Silly me and my lvl4 skills...
Lucky for me this last mission drained the last bit of sanity I have and I am going to be back into scanning as soon as I have lvl5 hacking.
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Reverend Revelator
Geddonites
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Posted - 2008.02.09 19:47:00 -
[2]
More details please.
You say you found a site that require BOTH hacking AND archealogy? Coz I never found a site like that.
Also, I never found a site that needs lvl 5 skills either, so I am very interested.
Oh, done about 300+ radar/mag sites now, in Gallente/Caldari/Amarr space to indicate some familiarity with subject.
-- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love -- |
echohead
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Posted - 2008.02.09 21:09:00 -
[3]
Edited by: echohead on 09/02/2008 21:10:10
Pardon me, it was arch and salvage. The system was a -0.2 security status.
You really haven't found a site container that needs lvl5 hacking/arch/salvaging? I have found them in three different sites.
edit: Your quote is awesome, not to many fans out there
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Alexa Violet
Amarr
Zoners
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Posted - 2008.02.09 21:56:00 -
[4]
Could you provide the name of the site that requires lvl5 arch, hacking or salvaging?
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Zero89
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Posted - 2008.02.11 14:23:00 -
[5]
That sickness must be pretty bad if he's finding cans that need lvl 5 hacking, think I'll add on to the people in dis-belief. So... what site was this?
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echohead
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Posted - 2008.02.11 22:08:00 -
[6]
Sorry I don't record my site names. But I have found one before that when I attempted to open the container a message popped up saying "you need the skill hacking 5 to open access this container".
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Crystalyne
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Posted - 2008.02.12 01:45:00 -
[7]
So I've been scanning in 0.0 for several months now and after doing countless radar and Mag sites have never had a can that required hacking 5.
.. but perhaps that is because I have the equivalent via rigs to my hacking ship. I too would really love to know at least the region you were in. as I routinely scan and find sites in systems with far less sec than u were in.
In any case.. exploration can be very profitable in 0.0 and less time consuming than missions or ratting.. but it is a dedicated profession and not really designed as a random time filler.
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Chi Hun
Sacred Templars
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2008.02.12 02:23:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: echohead
Sorry I don't record my site names. But I have found one before that when I attempted to open the container a message popped up saying "you need the skill hacking 5 to open access this container".
There is a dev post (cant remember where, but its been posted a few times) that states both Hacking V and Arch V are currently not needed in the game to open a container.
So either
a) you found a new super rare site (unlikely)
b) you found a bugged site (more likely)
c) you've made a mistake somewhere (most likey - no offence)
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Chi Hun
Sacred Templars
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2008.02.12 02:25:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Chi Hun on 12/02/2008 02:25:07
Originally by: Crystalyne
So I've been scanning in 0.0 for several months now and after doing countless radar and Mag sites have never had a can that required hacking 5.
.. but perhaps that is because I have the equivalent via rigs to my hacking ship. I too would really love to know at least the region you were in. as I routinely scan and find sites in systems with far less sec than u were in.
FYI - rigs dont affect the level of your skill, just the effectivness.
I.e. If you have Hacking level 1, and 1x Rig, that does not equal the "skill" of level 2 to open a can. So if you try to open a level 2 can, you will be told you dont have the skill high enough.
But it does change the "effectivness" of your skill to level 2 when you try to actually open the can, so it should take less 'cycles' to open.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.02.12 18:36:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Chi Hun
Edited by: Chi Hun on 12/02/2008 02:25:07
Originally by: Crystalyne
So I've been scanning in 0.0 for several months now and after doing countless radar and Mag sites have never had a can that required hacking 5.
.. but perhaps that is because I have the equivalent via rigs to my hacking ship. I too would really love to know at least the region you were in. as I routinely scan and find sites in systems with far less sec than u were in.
FYI - rigs dont affect the level of your skill, just the effectivness.
IIRC, this isn't quite true. What the rigs don't effect is the quality or amount of drops themselves, once a can is successfully accessed. However, they do supposedly change the level of cans you can access, in the same way as salvaging works.
Sorry this is so vague, but it's not something I've studied myself or been very interested in. If you're looking for a firm answer, ask Akita T, as he's where I got the info--assuming I'm not garbling it.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Commander OTG
Caldari
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.02.12 21:55:00 -
[11]
Although I have not seen any recently, I can confirm that there are/were sites that required level 5 skill to open. Was one of the reasons I got so interested in the profession. I was overly curious as to what could be in a can that would take such a high skill.
I know have all the skills at level 5 and couldnt say if there are sites with restrictions any longer, but I am absolutely certain that they existed not too long ago.
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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pandymen
The Graduates
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.12 23:49:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: Chi Hun
Edited by: Chi Hun on 12/02/2008 02:25:07
Originally by: Crystalyne
So I've been scanning in 0.0 for several months now and after doing countless radar and Mag sites have never had a can that required hacking 5.
.. but perhaps that is because I have the equivalent via rigs to my hacking ship. I too would really love to know at least the region you were in. as I routinely scan and find sites in systems with far less sec than u were in.
FYI - rigs dont affect the level of your skill, just the effectivness.
IIRC, this isn't quite true. What the rigs don't effect is the quality or amount of drops themselves, once a can is successfully accessed. However, they do supposedly change the level of cans you can access, in the same way as salvaging works.
No, they don't affect the level you can access, neither do salvaging rigs. What they do affect is your chance at accessing cans that your lvl of skill allows you to access.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.02.13 01:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: pandymen
No, they don't affect the level you can access, neither do salvaging rigs. What they do affect is your chance at accessing cans that your lvl of skill allows you to access.
How do you know?
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Chi Hun
Sacred Templars
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2008.02.13 03:16:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Chi Hun on 13/02/2008 03:16:34
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: pandymen
No, they don't affect the level you can access, neither do salvaging rigs. What they do affect is your chance at accessing cans that your lvl of skill allows you to access.
How do you know?
In 4 different ways:
1. The wording of the rigs state "increase the efficiency of the module". Not the level.
2. If you look at Evemon, the "rigs" has the same modifiers as the the "implants". The implants text states "5% increase in chance of find" - not +1 skill level. The rigs give a modification of 20%. Therefore not skill level.
3. You could test this on the test sever - just get a char with level 1 hacking/archeology, and try to open a can. If you fail, then apply the rigs, and you'll see.
4. There is another dev response about this somewhere. No, I cant post the link, but it was about 8 months ago. I am sure someone has the link and will post it.
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Chi Hun
Sacred Templars
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2008.02.13 03:22:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Chi Hun on 13/02/2008 03:27:42
Edited by: Chi Hun on 13/02/2008 03:26:38
Edited by: Chi Hun on 13/02/2008 03:24:00
Originally by: Commander OTG
Although I have not seen any recently, I can confirm that there are/were sites that required level 5 skill to open. Was one of the reasons I got so interested in the profession. I was overly curious as to what could be in a can that would take such a high skill.
I know have all the skills at level 5 and couldnt say if there are sites with restrictions any longer, but I am absolutely certain that they existed not too long ago.
Nope - I can 100% assure you that there is no site that needs level 5. This goes for Radar, Magnemetric, Unknown (DED), Unknown (CA), both for Hi Sec, Lo Sec, 0.0 and Gas Constellations.
Also - this quesiton gets asked about twice per day on the "exploration" in-game channel. Its been stated by Devs Level 5 is not currently needed, and no one has come across any site which they can name which requires level 5.
When exploration first came out over a year ago, people were assuming that your "skill" resulted in higher "loot". i.e. opening a can with Level 5 gave more loot than Level 3. Therefore people started going around saying "omg - get level 5 - quickly - be l33t". This theory got blown to bits when the devs stated they were wrong (yes - once again this famous dev post I dont have the link for - but I know someone will post it here soon).
Edit: you may need level 5 for a cosmos mission maybe? I dont do cosmos missions, and they fall under "missions", not "exploration", so it is possible they could need level 5 - dunno.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.02.13 17:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Chi Hun
In 4 different ways:
1. The wording of the rigs state "increase the efficiency of the module". Not the level.
2. If you look at Evemon, the "rigs" has the same modifiers as the the "implants". The implants text states "5% increase in chance of find" - not +1 skill level. The rigs give a modification of 20%. Therefore not skill level.
3. You could test this on the test sever - just get a char with level 1 hacking/archeology, and try to open a can. If you fail, then apply the rigs, and you'll see.
4. There is another dev response about this somewhere. No, I cant post the link, but it was about 8 months ago. I am sure someone has the link and will post it.
I was hoping for something more along the lines of "Hey, player x tested it, see the thread here." as I don't find any of that persuasive. But hey, it's not like I've presented any evidence, so meh.
Btw, from what I remember about the access bonus, it's not a simple 1-5 / level scale, so the percentage bonuses aren't a problem.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Zero89
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Posted - 2008.02.13 19:15:00 -
[17]
I actually did test this on a site that I knew you needed lvl 4 to hack. I tried to hack a databank in a serpentis region, I had my lvl to 3 and a hacking rig on and I sat there and waited to be what I think is sufficient amount of time to hack a can. I did this because I didn't think someone else was telling the truth that the rig won't improve what you can hack.
So wether or not you believe me I don't really care, but I did try it and I did find it does in fact not help.
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Asteroid Bandit
NOPHEX PRISIM
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Posted - 2008.02.13 19:37:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Chi Hun
Edited by: Chi Hun on 13/02/2008 03:16:34
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: pandymen
No, they don't affect the level you can access, neither do salvaging rigs. What they do affect is your chance at accessing cans that your lvl of skill allows you to access.
How do you know?
In 4 different ways:
1. The wording of the rigs state "increase the efficiency of the module". Not the level.
2. If you look at Evemon, the "rigs" has the same modifiers as the the "implants". The implants text states "5% increase in chance of find" - not +1 skill level. The rigs give a modification of 20%. Therefore not skill level.
3. You could test this on the test sever - just get a char with level 1 hacking/archeology, and try to open a can. If you fail, then apply the rigs, and you'll see.
4. There is another dev response about this somewhere. No, I cant post the link, but it was about 8 months ago. I am sure someone has the link and will post it.
This is not correct.
Hacking is a chance based operation where each level of skill adds to your base modifier "access difficulty."
Each level of hacking increases this modifier by 5 points.
Lvl 1 - 5
Lvl 2 - 10
Lvl 3 - 15
Lvl 4 - 20
Lvl 5 - 25
The implants and ship mods modify your base chance by a specified %, 5 for implants 20 for mods (T1 versions).
So, if you have lvl 5 hacking and a single ship mod your access difficulty bonus is 30, the equivalent of lvl 6 hacking if such a level were attainable.
If you have 2 mods and lvl 3 hacking your difficulty bonus is 21.6 which is the equivalent of having slightly better than lvl 4 hacking.
So the short answer is yes mods and implants can give you "higher" hacking levels with out training them.
The question is should such a site exist that requires level 5 hacking do the game mechanics look at the hacking level (1-5) of your character, or do they look at the current difficulty access bonus of the codebreaker accessing it?
The only way to test this is if you can find a can that requires a certain hacking level and you intentionally use a lower skilled character with a higher level access bonus.
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echohead
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Posted - 2008.02.13 20:54:00 -
[19]
Chi Hun
How can you confirm that there are no sites needing lvl5 to open the cans? If myself and someone else claim to have seen them.
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Angel DeMorphis
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.13 21:35:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Angel DeMorphis on 13/02/2008 21:35:32
Originally by: echohead
Chi Hun
How can you confirm that there are no sites needing lvl5 to open the cans? If myself and someone else claim to have seen them.
Answer:
Originally by: Chi Hun
and no one has come across any site which they can name which requires level 5.
EDIT: To put emphasis back in.
My sig taken from this site. [IMAGE REMOVED] |
Alexa Violet
Amarr
Zoners
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Posted - 2008.02.13 22:56:00 -
[21]
Quote:
I actually did test this on a site that I knew you needed lvl 4 to hack. I tried to hack a databank in a serpentis region, I had my lvl to 3 and a hacking rig on and I sat there and waited to be what I think is sufficient amount of time to hack a can. I did this because I didn't think someone else was telling the truth that the rig won't improve what you can hack.
For databank lvl3 is enough, it just takes some time, sometimes 10 or 15 mins :) and if you dont have sufficient skill to hack a can it tells you so.
btw,
what do you think it is sufficient amount of time to hack a can?
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Chi Hun
Sacred Templars
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2008.02.13 23:15:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Angel DeMorphis
Edited by: Angel DeMorphis on 13/02/2008 21:35:32
Originally by: echohead
Chi Hun
How can you confirm that there are no sites needing lvl5 to open the cans? If myself and someone else claim to have seen them.
Answer:
Originally by: Chi Hun
and no one has come across any site which they can name which requires level 5.
EDIT: To put emphasis back in.
This - plus there is a dev post confirming it - so unless it changed recently, it is proven.
Plus, why are only 1-2 people saying they need Level 5. If it were true, there would be hundreds of people, even if it was a 'rare' site.
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Chi Hun
Sacred Templars
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2008.02.13 23:19:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Chi Hun on 13/02/2008 23:19:56
Originally by: Asteroid Bandit
Hacking is a chance based operation where each level of skill adds to your base modifier "access difficulty."
Each level of hacking increases this modifier by 5 points.
Lvl 1 - 5
Lvl 2 - 10
Lvl 3 - 15
Lvl 4 - 20
Lvl 5 - 25
The implants and ship mods modify your base chance by a specified %, 5 for implants 20 for mods (T1 versions).
So, if you have lvl 5 hacking and a single ship mod your access difficulty bonus is 30, the equivalent of lvl 6 hacking if such a level were attainable.
If you have 2 mods and lvl 3 hacking your difficulty bonus is 21.6 which is the equivalent of having slightly better than lvl 4 hacking.
So the short answer is yes mods and implants can give you "higher" hacking levels with out training them.
The question is should such a site exist that requires level 5 hacking do the game mechanics look at the hacking level (1-5) of your character, or do they look at the current difficulty access bonus of the codebreaker accessing it?
The only way to test this is if you can find a can that requires a certain hacking level and you intentionally use a lower skilled character with a higher level access bonus.
You are right and wrong at the same itme.
Hacking is a chance based operation - correct.
BUT - hacking is also a LEVEL based operation.
To explain:
- All hackable items have a 'level' requirement to operate, before you even start 'attempting' to open a can. i.e. Can A needs Hacking Level 3 to open.
- All hacking items use the 'level' requirement as the 'chance to open' modifier aswell. So having higher hacking levels (plus rigs and implants) give a boost to THIS chance - NOT to the skill level.
As per another post above, this has been test every way to Sunday, so whether you choose to believe us or not is your choice, but this is a known fact.
Like I said - jump on the test server and test it yourself - you'll see the results.
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pandymen
The Graduates
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.13 23:50:00 -
[24]
Edited by: pandymen on 13/02/2008 23:50:10
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: pandymen
No, they don't affect the level you can access, neither do salvaging rigs. What they do affect is your chance at accessing cans that your lvl of skill allows you to access.
How do you know?
I know because I've done it personally myself. I do not post things on the forums I have not tested myself (edit: or have gotten from a very reliable source). Besides, hasn't anyone ever tested it out with salvaging...that's pretty simple to test...just try salvaging a t2 wreck or sommat you need lvl 3 for, then try it with a rig. You will get the same result, failure.
That's not to say hacking 5 isn't worth having....I love being able to zip through sites having those skills to 5.
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Coruptorr
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Posted - 2008.02.14 04:41:00 -
[25]
As memory serves me, there have been changes to the exploration amounts as well as difficulty since it was originally introduced.
I recall locating a site in OuterRing and I was unable to open the can with level 4 skills, yet another corp member was able who had level 5.
Its been many months since that was the case, but it absolutely happened.
It would make sense that a Dev posted about no sites requiring level 5 because they may have reduced the difficulty level as a result of many complaints...etc
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Zero89
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Posted - 2008.02.14 19:37:00 -
[26]
This was a while ago but actually my skill level's only at 3 so bump each level down one... had lvl 2 with one hacking rig and it wouldn't open, I'd say about 30min is sufficient time to do a can. I don't remember if it said something or if I just couldn't do it. Just know I tried it and it didn't work. And personally I don't care if people believe it or not or think I'm an idiot. But the fact of the matter is, this guy's an ar-tard and should quit exploration and this post should just go away, I can't believe people are still arguing about this.
Originally by: Alexa Violet
Quote:
I actually did test this on a site that I knew you needed lvl 4 to hack. I tried to hack a databank in a serpentis region, I had my lvl to 3 and a hacking rig on and I sat there and waited to be what I think is sufficient amount of time to hack a can. I did this because I didn't think someone else was telling the truth that the rig won't improve what you can hack.
For databank lvl3 is enough, it just takes some time, sometimes 10 or 15 mins :) and if you dont have sufficient skill to hack a can it tells you so.
btw,
what do you think it is sufficient amount of time to hack a can?
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Cersei
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.02.17 19:38:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: pandymen
No, they don't affect the level you can access, neither do salvaging rigs. What they do affect is your chance at accessing cans that your lvl of skill allows you to access.
How do you know?
I can with 100% certainity say that hacking rigs affects which cans you can or can't hack. 2 chars with hacking 2, 1 with 2 hacking rigs, different results.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.02.17 21:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Cersei
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: pandymen
No, they don't affect the level you can access, neither do salvaging rigs. What they do affect is your chance at accessing cans that your lvl of skill allows you to access.
How do you know?
I can with 100% certainity say that hacking rigs affects which cans you can or can't hack. 2 chars with hacking 2, 1 with 2 hacking rigs, different results.
Just to be absolutely clear about what you mean...
- The character without rigs was unable to hack an identical can? You gave it a decent length of time?
- Do you remember what type of can it was? Also, was it Exploration or Cosmos?
- When did you test this?
I've been planning to test this myself with Salvaging, but :effort:, so it might take me a while. And unfortunately I don't have an easy way to test Hacking or Arc.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Cersei
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.02.17 22:05:00 -
[29]
Tested on Serpentis Databank can in a regular, non-cosmos exploration site. This was tested within the last 4 days or something, thats for how long I've had my hacking rigged ship anyhow.
When attempting to hack without rigs I got a message stating I did not have sufficient skill to hack the crate in question. Don't remember wether this happened when attempting to activate; or after one cycle of codebreaker. Either way, it was impossible to keep the codebreakers running. With dual t1 rigs it works fine, except for some crates still taking seemingly forever to ***** (had entire 100 entry log filled with hacking fails  ).
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Phoenicia
Black Sea Industries
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.02.18 11:03:00 -
[30]
I may be oversimplifying the information provided, but you said you found an Archaeology & Salvaging complex, yes?
And upon trying to open the cans you got an error message stating that your hacking skill is too low, yes?
Could it be that you were in fact at a hacking site and were counting on the wrong skills? I can see Archaeology lvl 4 as a problem in hacking sites...
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