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Kronso
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Posted - 2008.02.10 06:15:00 -
[1]
I really want to get into the this game, but my stance is this:
From what I've come to understand is that you upgrade based on real life time. So when I first signed on I thought, all 26,000 players on at this moment, are better than me, and always will be. Why would I want to play a game in which I have no hope to kill anyone who made their account before me (I very much enjoy PVP).
PLEASE, prove me wrong and tell me I don't understand.
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Lui Kai
Phoenix Aeronautics
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Posted - 2008.02.10 06:22:00 -
[2]
It's not as bad a situation as what it may seem to be, honestly.
SP are based on RL time, and there's nothing you can do to influence that by playing more. You won't ever catch up to someone with more SP than you, provided they keep playing.
That said - Almost every ship in Eve fills a real, practical, and important role in engagements. You need a certain amount of SP to be able to fit and fly that ship well, yes. But after a certain point, adding more SP doesn't do much for that particular ship anymore.
Thus, once you have skilled up to flying one particular ship very well - you'll fly it almost exactly equally well as that char with millions more SP (player-based intelligence and ability being otherwise equal). The only difference between them and you - once you've skilled up to flying that one ship very well - will be that they will have a larger variety of ship types they can fly well. Eventually, with time, so will you - and other newer players will be stuck with their single well-supported ship.
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Verx Interis
Amarr
Aurora Security
The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2008.02.10 06:23:00 -
[3]
Skills max out at level V.
Once you reach that, you're as good as they'll ever be in that area.
Once you specialize for a ship completely, you're as good as you can get. You won't fly AS MANY ships, but you can use that one.
-----sig-starts-here------
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Corstaad
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Posted - 2008.02.10 06:24:00 -
[4]
I was in the same boat as you are not 9 months ago. I went total pvp rolled a Minny soldier and been in Low sec sense 1st day out of trial. I have 12mil sps went total base skills training and pretty much from now training up to any PvP ship I want. Though I can't fly a BS I'm more then capable having end game fun. During those first 9 months I joined nub fights learned game mechanics and had alot of rifter fun. In EvE you seriously need slow down and grasp what you want.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Military Industrial Research
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Posted - 2008.02.10 06:25:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Kronso
Why would I want to play a game in which I have no hope to kill anyone who made their account before me (I very much enjoy PVP).
Because that's not the case.
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Kronso
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Posted - 2008.02.10 06:30:00 -
[6]
Thats what I wanted to hear. Thank you. Question though, as someone said before "Skill level V" is the max level, when is that reached in real time? Or is it exp or gameplay based?
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Corstaad
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Posted - 2008.02.10 06:33:00 -
[7]
Honestly perfect example is me and Reem I think we fought are first few weeks in. Total fun and completely fair. Once your start understanding the game you can be far and away better then alot of people that just mission all day.
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Corstaad
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Posted - 2008.02.10 06:34:00 -
[8]
Its all real time now grinding!!! Go to work come back having propulsion jamming 4 almost done :).
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.02.10 06:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kronso
Thats what I wanted to hear. Thank you. Question though, as someone said before "Skill level V" is the max level, when is that reached in real time? Or is it exp or gameplay based?
There is no such thing as experince points in Eve. There is real experince and real knowledge of how the game works. Those come with practice and friends that can teach you things.
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.02.10 06:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kronso
I really want to get into the this game, but my stance is this:
From what I've come to understand is that you upgrade based on real life time. So when I first signed on I thought, all 26,000 players on at this moment, are better than me, and always will be. Why would I want to play a game in which I have no hope to kill anyone who made their account before me (I very much enjoy PVP).
PLEASE, prove me wrong and tell me I don't understand.
EVE is not World of Warcraft. Higher skill points is not instawin.
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Lui Kai
Phoenix Aeronautics
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Posted - 2008.02.10 06:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Corstaad
Honestly perfect example is me and Reem I think we fought are first few weeks in. Total fun and completely fair. Once your start understanding the game you can be far and away better then alot of people that just mission all day.
There's no exp for gameplay - just time based. How long a skill to level 5 varies according to a few factors. Your attributes (Each skill has different primary and secondary attributes - having higher stats in those catagories helps you train faster). Each skill also has a "Rank" - which is basically just a training multiplier.
Speaking generally - a rank 1 skill will take about 5 days to go from level 4 to level 5. A rank 2, about 10 days, and so on. A rank 1 skill will make it from level 0 to level 5 in a bit under a week.
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Nasuno
Steel Battalion
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.10 06:49:00 -
[12]
Sticky This
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Corstaad
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Posted - 2008.02.10 06:51:00 -
[13]
Actually got it wrong Reem and me joined a Agony Unleashed class a few weeks in. Teaches alot of basic combat things. If your totally new goggle eve-u and agony unleashed. Read a crap load of info from this forum/Vn/scraheap.
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Ursula LeGuinn
Versus Gloria Omnis
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Posted - 2008.02.10 06:53:00 -
[14]
Actually, EVE is not terribly dissimilar from World of Warcraft (hear me out).
Someone who's been playing WoW for four years may have six different characters of six different classes at level 70. This is not at all dissimilar to someone whose character has 60 million SP as opposed to your 10 million SP; it's like only having one WoW character at level 70 instead of six of them.
Of course, you can grind character XP in WoW, so that's where this particular similarity breaks down.
Likewise, in EVE it's hard as hell to make money at first until you know what you're doing (and possibly train research / mining / industrial / trade / combat skills), and this is no different than in World of Warcraft. You have to both know how to make money and have the skills and experience to do so.
Finally, connections (as in, knowing people in powerful positions) only comes with long periods of socialization. I don't think it's out of the question for you to become a well-known, respected and powerful EVE player, but it will take time.
________________
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Corstaad
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Posted - 2008.02.10 07:07:00 -
[15]
If you need money at newbie speed use salvaging and L2 missions to make easy millions of isks. If you want to try low sec piracy you just can't pod people and only threaten when doing ransoms :).
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Orrelious
Minmatar
The Umbrella Union Fleet
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Posted - 2008.02.10 07:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lui Kai
SP are based on RL time, and there's nothing you can do to influence that by playing more. You won't ever catch up to someone with more SP than you, provided they keep playing.
Implants, learning skills. If you plug a +5 set in, and max the learning skills, you'll easily catch up with people that don't have these things. All this requires is isk and some time.
That said, Eve is all about the specialization. which has already been addressed.
To the OP, get some experience with the game and you'll understand what has been said here much better.
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Lui Kai
Phoenix Aeronautics
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Posted - 2008.02.10 07:27:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Orrelious
Implants, learning skills. If you plug a +5 set in, and max the learning skills, you'll easily catch up with people that don't have these things. All this requires is isk and some time.
That said, Eve is all about the specialization. which has already been addressed.
To the OP, get some experience with the game and you'll understand what has been said here much better.
I should have been more clear - you won't ever catch up to someone else by playing more than them. I assumed all other factors equal (The "someone else" actually understanding game mechanics, and using them to their own advantage)
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Gunzoid
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.02.10 07:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kronso
I really want to get into the this game, but my stance is this:
From what I've come to understand is that you upgrade based on real life time. So when I first signed on I thought, all 26,000 players on at this moment, are better than me, and always will be. Why would I want to play a game in which I have no hope to kill anyone who made their account before me (I very much enjoy PVP).
PLEASE, prove me wrong and tell me I don't understand.
Well, just to add a bit to what everyone else said: You said that everone will be better than you because they are older. Well, Age sometimes doesn't matter for what you're looking for.
Say you have about 7 mil in PVP skills, while an older character may have 20-30 mil in industry skills, he may only have 1-2 mil in PVP skills, and you would obviously win in a 1v1.
I was once concerned about this too when I started. I didn't see the point in PVP with the big boys. But they told me any DPS is good DPS. And it's also not so much about kicking ass, as it is just having fun with some buddies. 
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.10 08:05:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kronso
I really want to get into the this game, but my stance is this:
From what I've come to understand is that you upgrade based on real life time. So when I first signed on I thought, all 26,000 players on at this moment, are better than me, and always will be. Why would I want to play a game in which I have no hope to kill anyone who made their account before me (I very much enjoy PVP).
PLEASE, prove me wrong and tell me I don't understand.
Honestly? Its stupid to even think of it like this...
Think of it this way: Why are you even alive? You should have been killed when you were born because everyone else on the earth already had a head start on you.....
Besides, just because they are "older" than you doesn't mean they are always going to be better than you at ALL things. Find a particular thing you like and do it. Within a couple of months you can surpass 80% of your potential competitors. Skill points are less important than player skill...
Originally by: Audri Fisher
On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
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Sandeep
Raptus Regaliter
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.10 08:17:00 -
[20]
Aside from what everyone else said, don't forget the exponential training time.
If it takes 1 day total to train from level 0 to level 4, it will take about 5 days to train from level 4 to level 5.
In a week, you can have a lot of skills trained to level 4, and you are only 4% worse than those who trained to level 5 for 8 months.
anyone know how to put a horizontal bar here?
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Corstaad
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Posted - 2008.02.10 08:25:00 -
[21]
Right its all about xp in game.
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Culdees
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Posted - 2008.02.10 08:53:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Originally by: Kronso
I really want to get into the this game, but my stance is this:
From what I've come to understand is that you upgrade based on real life time. So when I first signed on I thought, all 26,000 players on at this moment, are better than me, and always will be. Why would I want to play a game in which I have no hope to kill anyone who made their account before me (I very much enjoy PVP).
PLEASE, prove me wrong and tell me I don't understand.
Honestly? Its stupid to even think of it like this...
Think of it this way: Why are you even alive? You should have been killed when you were born because everyone else on the earth already had a head start on you.....
Besides, just because they are "older" than you doesn't mean they are always going to be better than you at ALL things. Find a particular thing you like and do it. Within a couple of months you can surpass 80% of your potential competitors. Skill points are less important than player skill...
get a grip, eve is a game not a life. you spend a great deal of time in life doing things you dont necessarily want to do to be able to enjoy yourself some of the time.
a game shouldnt need you to do the first to achieve the second. of course a lot of people really dont know how to enjoy themselves so let themselves be drawn into a false sense of enjoyment like doing a mission for the 10th time with exactly the same setup ship so that they can enjoy a little bit of freedom of choice.
what people say about specialization is true, you can fly a high level ship well after a short amount of time, but the problem is that this is your only choice.
for the older player, the choices are far more vast. the older players tend not to need to worry about isk because they already have their 1b isk pimp mobile to do missions in no time at all, or they have gone down the trade or mining path etc.
people say oh just plug in a set of +5s, hehe yeah, forget about isk again.
the development path is quite obvious for older players, lvl 1 missions, lvl 2 missions, cheap set of implants, train straight for bs and rep/mechanic and cap, do lvl 3s buy better implants.. get some for free, do lvl 4s buy faction mods for bs and never have to worry about isk, then you can do what you want in eve.
trade can make a lot, but has been spoiled by the numbers in eve now, so trade is a good thing to carry alongside the missioning.
now pvp. it doesnt matter that you can fly the same ship with the same fittings, more often than not, it comes down to how diverse you can be and how much time you have to spend not earning isk.
for example if you scored a t2 bpo in the early days, your wealth or need to grind for isk is virtually nil. you can ride off the suckers that need to buy the end product. this is a natural progression and it has to exist to keep older players interested.
what it means is that the older players in general need less time and commitment to tasks to enjoy the game it was made to be enjoyed, and this MUST go with the older player to keep interest. ie dreads, then carriers etc, it is neverending. this peek of the game (whatever it is at the time) will always be out of the reach of the player starting now apart from character selling. nobody can deny that, but it is not necessary to enjoy the pvp action in the game.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.02.10 09:00:00 -
[23]
Hi, you can't win us. All your charakter can do is to traine skill points and fly ships that we can fly. You will fell that you are ours equal but that do not meant you will be beter than us. The pont is you will never be beter than us.
It is sad but it is teh truth.
Welkomme to Eve. 
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Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Recruitment
-KB- |
Lui Kai
Phoenix Aeronautics
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Posted - 2008.02.10 09:09:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Hi, you can't win us. All your charakter can do is to traine skill points and fly ships that we can fly. You will fell that you are ours equal but that do not meant you will be beter than us. The pont is you will never be beter than us.
It is sad but it is teh truth.
Welkomme to Eve.
Well, he could just buy a character - right...Jenny Mk.7?
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Ursula LeGuinn
Versus Gloria Omnis
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Posted - 2008.02.10 09:14:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lui Kai
Well, he could just buy a character - right...Jenny Mk.7?
LOL... I've been playing EVE for two months now, and I'm pretty sure Jenny has changed hands at least once during that time period.
________________
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SumDum
AirHawk Alliance
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.02.10 10:44:00 -
[26]
I have to admit, after reading the OP I expected the masses to douse him with kerosene and light him up. Very good explanations and descriptions so far.
Question: Has someone nerfed the GD forum?
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000Hunter000
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.02.10 10:46:00 -
[27]
It's not the amount of skillpoints that matter, it's what u do with them.
CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! |
General StarScream
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Posted - 2008.02.10 10:58:00 -
[28]
Dude sp dont matter, mostly eve is about Gang pvp fights, small med size gangs are the funz.
All you need to think about is Isk. skill dont matter mutch
Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Ioci
Gallente
Ioci Exploration
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Posted - 2008.02.10 11:03:00 -
[29]
After you have ganked your first '04 toon, you will understand the sociology of Eve. After his 32 '04 friends hunt you down, you will understand it's a 2 way street.
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Katja Petrovsk
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Posted - 2008.02.10 11:07:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
Actually, EVE is not terribly dissimilar from World of Warcraft (hear me out).
Someone who's been playing WoW for four years may have six different characters of six different classes at level 70. This is not at all dissimilar to someone whose character has 60 million SP as opposed to your 10 million SP; it's like only having one WoW character at level 70 instead of six of them.
Of course, you can grind character XP in WoW, so that's where this particular similarity breaks down.
Likewise, in EVE it's hard as hell to make money at first until you know what you're doing (and possibly train research / mining / industrial / trade / combat skills), and this is no different than in World of Warcraft. You have to both know how to make money and have the skills and experience to do so.
Finally, connections (as in, knowing people in powerful positions) only comes with long periods of socialization. I don't think it's out of the question for you to become a well-known, respected and powerful EVE player, but it will take time.
This is best explanation I've seen for refugees from other MMOs. Trying to catch total skill points is like trying to catch a hardcore gamer's /played in WoW. Its just not going to happen, but it doesn't mean you can't catch up in a dimension of gameplay you find interesting. Plus, if waste someone with 10x your SP? Braggin rights. . .
There was also a long thread about this recently on mmorpg.com for prospective EVE players.
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Valan
The Fated
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.10 11:41:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Orrelious
Originally by: Lui Kai
SP are based on RL time, and there's nothing you can do to influence that by playing more. You won't ever catch up to someone with more SP than you, provided they keep playing.
Implants, learning skills. If you plug a +5 set in, and max the learning skills, you'll easily catch up with people that don't have these things. All this requires is isk and some time.
That said, Eve is all about the specialization. which has already been addressed.
To the OP, get some experience with the game and you'll understand what has been said here much better.
In most cases this is the worst thing you can do. Learning skills are boring and +5s will discourage you from PvP. All it does is perpetuate the feeling of having inadequate skill points.
Balance learning and implants with the isk you can make and the fun of PvP.
Disproving your own post Jenny. A bought character with SPs doesn't equal a skilled player, as you prove with every sale. So the OP may already be better than you.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.10 11:51:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Andrue on 10/02/2008 11:54:07
Originally by: Kronso
I really want to get into the this game, but my stance is this:
From what I've come to understand is that you upgrade based on real life time. So when I first signed on I thought, all 26,000 players on at this moment, are better than me, and always will be. Why would I want to play a game in which I have no hope to kill anyone who made their account before me (I very much enjoy PVP).
PLEASE, prove me wrong and tell me I don't understand.
I have aroun 59mil SP. Most of them I never use. I have Amarr BS V but the only time I use any of my Amarr skills is when I fly my Lootageddon. I have mining skills all the way up to DCM but I haven't mined in over 18 months.
But let me ask you this:Are you thinking of finding a job or is that a waste of time because other people have already done it?
Develop your character the way you want. You will meet other people and some will have more skills, others will have less. You may never meet me so why should it matter that I am so far ahead of you?
In any case if you do meet me I might only be flying a cruiser - I don't always fly some uber-veteran pwn mobile. Even when I do - you could always find a gang of friends to help take me down.
This game is about what *you* do with *your* character and how you develop it. I am just one of many potential interactions that may or may not take place. Like life. You make your choices - and that's the fun of it.
--
(Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Ka Jolo
Ministry of Destruction
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Posted - 2008.02.10 11:52:00 -
[33]
Another dynamic to consider is that older players lose interest, their accounts go inactive, and accounts are bought and sold.
First, this means that that 3-year-old toon you see may in fact have only accumulated SP for 1 1/2 years, and that the person behind the toon may have only been playing EVE for 2 days. After only a few weeks playing EVE, you should be "better" than him at several things (though he'll still have more opportunities than you).
Second, it means that if being behind is SP is what troubles you, you can simply shop around for a higher SP account and enter the game at whatever SP level you're happy with. I tend to be the kind of player, however, that really identifies with my toon, and as such I tend to have just one main that I have played from the beginning.
Personally, as a pirate I've found that SP != RL experience in PvP. Many fights are won or loss long before two ships encounter each other in space...they're lost when fitting decisions are made, when someone decides to mine here or rat there, when someone decides to attack a ship based on various odds, etc. Many people in EVE have only engaged in PvP a handful of times; get in 20 fights your first week (you'll probably lose, buy you'd be surprised how much you'll win) and you'll have more PvP experience than a large number of other players.
I like the SP system. It means that when I'm playing, I can do what's fun, rather than grinding.
Your Money or Your Life!
The journal of a space pirate
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.02.10 12:02:00 -
[34]
Sp really doesn't matter that much. Given a couple of months you can be just as good in a given ship as the next player. The advantage of SP is more variety.
I can assure you the SP I have in hybrid turrets, interceptors, and gallente battleships doesn't come into play when I'm flying a missile toting Caldari cruiser. Let alone the SP I have in assorted trade and industry skills.
There are a few core skills that need to be built up, such as electronics, engineering, cap skills and the like. But these should be built up while your zipping around in cheap frigs and cruisers earning some combat experience.
And of course this isn't including the above mentioned fact that training to lvl 4 is quite sufficient most of the time since the difference between 4 and 5 is typically very small.
High SP characters are more akin to those who have been playing (for example) Guildwars or WoW and have gotten themselves a number of professions/classes to maximum level. They can't use all those characters at once.
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.02.10 12:10:00 -
[35]
What others in the thread have said. Just want to add ...
Alot of people have been playing in EVE for alot longer then you, but are idiots. There are alot of them. These are the people you are better than from the time you created your account. The are 'skillpoints' and then 'skilled pilots'. Using your SP count to it's best effect is the hard thing and what will set you apart.
But do keep playing - I've always said to newbs that join the corp that the first few months are actually the hardest (learning skills are just horrible to get through) to get through, after some time (about 2-3 months) things get good and start to really pique your interest. So many combinations and possibilities. It's great.
Originally by: Rachel Vend
... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
General Aesthetics Changes Thread |
Schani Kratnorr
Internal Revenue Service
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Posted - 2008.02.10 12:19:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Kronso
I really want to get into the this game, but my stance is this:
From what I've come to understand is that you upgrade based on real life time. So when I first signed on I thought, all 26,000 players on at this moment, are better than me, and always will be. Why would I want to play a game in which I have no hope to kill anyone who made their account before me (I very much enjoy PVP).
PLEASE, prove me wrong and tell me I don't understand.
EVE can be summed up pseydo-mathematically as
time = skillpoints
time + effort = isk
skillpoint + isk = win
If you hold the view that you will NEVER be as good as someone starting before you, then you are probably not looking at the math of EVE.
If you dont know why you should play EVE, then there are other, more "conventional" MMORPGs out there that have no death penalty, easy XP-grind, and a leraning-incline, instead of EVE's 14 mile high learning cliff-face 
Once you have overcome your sceptisism and investigated EVE, I think you will find that it is quite unlike any game ever designed and implemented. Granted, It is a harsh mistress, but when your opponent stands to loose his entire ship, modules and cargo, he is likely to try harder.
People trying harder results in a more rewardning PvP-game. If you enjoy PvP, then EVE is the final, end all, king of the hill game.
/Schani Kratnorr (been here from the start and still learning).
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.02.10 12:37:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/02/2008 12:39:51
The more people you play with in a group, the less your skillpoints will matter.
Also, I think its about perspective. Learn to have fun even when losing a fight. I used to attack larger groups and be happy about taking a ship or two down with me, not to mention the entertaining comments in local from the winners. They were more ****ed about losing a few ships than you can imagine. :)
---
Its dead, Jim.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.02.10 20:27:00 -
[38]
you should start now because even the guy with the most sp is not the best
with a good group of friends you can destroy people in the best carriers and billions of faction fittings and implants with only t1 battleships in t1 fits and if you want short term goals you can easily fight people in battleships in groups of frigates
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Tzar'rim
Minmatar
Reckless Corsairs
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Posted - 2008.02.10 21:03:00 -
[39]
A corpie of mine is 7 weeks old, with my help and his will to put in effort and preparation we have downed close to 3 billion so far in these few weeks, we've killed battleships and whatnot.
He killed a Crow on his own, an AF and lots of other stuff, by being smart, prepared and informed. Not because he had tons of SP or big badass ships.
RECOR is looking for a few aspiring team PVPers
The chronicles of RECOR |
Miss Sativa
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Posted - 2008.02.10 21:25:00 -
[40]
Basicly as has been said you need to focus your skill points.
I advise all newbies to this game that want to pvp to pick a ROLE BASED ship and focus there skill points on it. Cov-ops, intys/dictors, ecm ships etc...
Seems like a lot of people in EVE pick a race and try and train up to fly all ships of that race as soon as possible. It's no wonder they feel like they can never compete.
TL:DR -> It's better to be able to fly one ship very well, than to fly 10 ships poorly.
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Sarkkon
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Posted - 2008.02.10 21:36:00 -
[41]
Frigate class ships offer a wider variety of roles and aplications. Pick a race (tho I suggest you look at all their t2 frigates, and their bonuses and see what appeals to you), get frig 5, train its primary weapons to spec 4, get your engineering and electronics skills up. Then you can start training up assault ships, Ewar frigates, covert ops. Some extreemly deadly ships with the right skills behind them. Several of them are more then capable of humiliating Battlecruiser and battleship pilots.
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