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Salvage Thiefs in highsec mission areas!

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Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.16 11:28:00 - [31] Originally by: Jim Nakamura I approve of this idea, as I want to play the entire game in a hermetically sealed bubble in highsec so I can pretend I'm the only person around. Hell, I don't even want to interact with other people, I just want the whole game to be a very boring single-player grinding game with a couple of chat channels bolted on to stop me getting bored. I don't care if there's 30,000+ other people online at the moment, and I certainly don't want them intruding on the antisociable way in which I want to play. /sarcasm That is pretty much how I play except I don't even have any use for the chat channels.
Righteous Deeds	Posted - 2008.02.16 13:23:00 - [32] The players should get to decide how that salvage goes down without intervention from Concord. That's all anyone is asking for. This is a PVP game, right?
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2008.02.16 23:00:00 - [33] Originally by: Righteous Deeds The players should get to decide how that salvage goes down without intervention from Concord. That's all anyone is asking for. This is a PVP game, right? There is lowsec for that. In highsec the typical policy for unclaimed stuff is FCFS. Next time people will ask to ask for flagging those who mine "their" asteroid.... If you don't like salvagers play in lowsec, or take one of the about 10 ways to solve the problem...
William Ortega Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.16 23:26:00 - [34] Edited by: William Ortega on 16/02/2008 23:26:57 Originally by: Righteous Deeds The players should get to decide how that salvage goes down without intervention from Concord. That's all anyone is asking for. This is a PVP game, right? Yes it is a PvP game and that is exactly what happens in low sec or 0.0. However people asking for flagging, do so under erroneous assumption that this will deter/stop salvagers in their missions. What myself and others are trying to say is that all that would be accomplished are super easy ganks in hi-sek. Hey I'm all for it , but from OP's false sense of entitlement I somehow don't think that he is ready for that. edit: spelling -Willy
Creh Ester	Posted - 2008.02.17 11:52:00 - [35] Originally by: William Ortega Edited by: William Ortega on 16/02/2008 23:26:57 Originally by: Righteous Deeds The players should get to decide how that salvage goes down without intervention from Concord. That's all anyone is asking for. This is a PVP game, right? Yes it is a PvP game and that is exactly what happens in low sec or 0.0. However people asking for flagging, do so under erroneous assumption that this will deter/stop salvagers in their missions. What myself and others are trying to say is that all that would be accomplished are super easy ganks in hi-sek. Hey I'm all for it , but from OP's false sense of entitlement I somehow don't think that he is ready for that. edit: spelling Go in there. And steal their loot instead of salvaging. Quality of a game is a complex issue. It mainly considers the question of players feeling a game is worth their time. And PvP gameplay issues are far more complex than a little 14y old ganker ("Oh I wanna be a pirate!") normally thinks. There is nothing easier, less committing, less demanding, less consequential in EVE than going gatecamping. You never get to face any serious consequences from your acts against any random prey. The game simply doesn't support directed PVP actions (outside 0.0 and hardly there either) and that would be precicely what the carebear game needs in order for PvP and lowsec to be an option even worth considering. The pie game is simply NOT VULNURABLE. CCP doesn't seem to understand this (or they don't want to consider all the additional problems that change would bring e.g. megagriefing). But meanwhile they are stuck with a lot of problems from how the game is stacked currently. Mainly an acute lack of lowsec play. It's simply no way worth it for anyone else but pies. And just as easy and carefree as it is to go gatecamping, just as easy it is to swagger and pose as "PvP'er" and project contempt for "carebears". The small and weak are always in love with dreams of power. And EVE caters for that. And you need not to worry about any repercussions from your acts. Ever! But more centrally on the topic. I think salvage is fine as it is. As already stated it's modeled on RL. I think it's a cute opportunity for enterprising noobs. Nice addition to gameplay. With too much mission reward value in salvage it will break the mission game eventually. Simple solution is to move reward value slightly away from salvage. 14 mil/hour for a noob is simply too much. So I would like to see the "problem" escalate (it probably will, the money is there) until clueless CCP makes the proper changes to protect gameplay balance. Reduce the share of reward that is put into salvage. Having younger players probe missions and salvaging them is IMO just fine though. And does not need any rule changes. Finally, warp out and let the salvager deal with the rats. If he does, you can just sit in comfort and watch your mission finish. That's never going to happen, of course, but actions - reactions - reactions... It's a game. Play it. If the rules finally gets so fubar'ed it's not worth your time any longer, complain and get out. But play it first.
Sigul Siento	Posted - 2008.02.17 12:21:00 - [36] Originally by: Kahega Amielden I made 13 mil worth of salvage in about 45 minutes. I couldn't have made anywhere CLOSE to that running missions myself (seeing as how I can only fit a Rupture with t1 stuff) My best was the time I was quietly waiting cloaked some distance away for the guy in the faction fitted megathron navy issue to finish the mission. I'm checking in once and again while surfing the net, keeping track of the battle mostly by the sounds, when I notice there's no shooting. Check in the game, and notice the pod. Then the wreck. While sitting there with my jaw on the floor, the remaining rats disappear. I think, fine, he's cancelled it and I can salvage the wrecks. And so I start, and figure I should salvage the Mega for a laugh, heading over. Heeey, hang on, what if... change scene to me running towards a station with 50m+ in armour hardeners just as the guy comes in with his salvage destroyer Admittedly I should have grabbed the modules right away, but the course of events was so thoroughly unexpected i just didn't think of it. The reason I do salvaging before any other activity that may or may not yield more ISK/hour is that there is a certain X-factor to it, as the story above shows.
Vanther Co	Posted - 2008.02.17 12:56:00 - [37] Originally by: Sigul Siento Originally by: Kahega Amielden ... While sitting there with my jaw on the floor, the remaining rats disappear... Now here's the typical problem that clueless CCP mindlessly creates again and again. The rats shouldn't go away. They probably do because of some "server performance" oriented mechanics added to missions. But that makes this an exploit. You should petition it or I will. ( I dread the changes they are contemplating on belts )
Sigul Siento	Posted - 2008.02.17 13:09:00 - [38] Edited by: Sigul Siento on 17/02/2008 13:10:54 As I understand it, anything spawned by a mission disappears when the mission is reported to the agent as either completed or failed. This seems sound, no point having stuff floating about needlessly. The rats are spawned by the mission, the wrecks and loot are not, so they stay. I don't see why this is an exploit, really. Because it allowed him to get back to his ship and save whatever modules were left? Nah, he'd have to take a standigs hit to do it, afaik. I certainly won't petition it, seems like pretty standard use of game mechanics to me.
Vanther Co	Posted - 2008.02.17 15:42:00 - [39] I agree. If the mission was reported as failed. But I have such a suspicious mind I assumed it was not, and that some newfangled game mechanics was eager to dismiss the rats.
Bhodistafa Gallente Amen Anera	Posted - 2008.02.17 18:31:00 - [40] I have the answer to all the OPs problems with salvage...in fact the whole of eve actually. Log onto the test server and play there. There isn't usually more than 200 players on this server so you'll be quite safe and sound. Plus you have the added bonus of PvP being by mutual consent! What more could you ask for?!
YourDaddi	Posted - 2008.02.18 04:49:00 - [41] Originally by: Tehopenee As per usual CCP does its best to promote strife in the game. I dont mind the strife like salvage thiefs as much as I dislike the fact I cant do anything about it. Sometimes I wonder if any of the gm's actually play the game. And then the turkey who wrote salvage belongs to anyone. lol Obviously he either steals it or has never had anyone take his salvage. Probably both. Ok yes, I know this is a dead horse. Still it makes me wonder. :) insert thumb - suck
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.02.18 18:03:00 - [42] Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 18/02/2008 18:06:14 Originally by: Nariya Zhao 2. If someone did, and salvaging my wrecks flagged them, what would I do about it? Hell, what would I do about it if they took the loot out of them which already does flag them? Shoot them and get flagged to their whole pirate corp? DO NOT WANT, thanks. It works in reverse. The thief can be shot by your whole corp but can only shoot at people shooting him. The worst his corpmate can do is remote repair him, in which case they can be shot too. What about understanding the aggro rules before spewing falsehood on the forums? -- Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP!
Nariya Zhao Reseune Industries	Posted - 2008.02.19 05:33:00 - [43] Originally by: Lubomir Penev Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 18/02/2008 18:06:14 It works in reverse. The thief can be shot by your whole corp but can only shoot at people shooting him. The worst his corpmate can do is remote repair him, in which case they can be shot too. What about understanding the aggro rules before spewing falsehood on the forums? I'll take your word for it for the moment. It's been a while since I've reviewed the aggro rules for container theft, so I'll freely admit that I may have misunderstood them. (I've probably confused this with jetcan flipping. Obviously you can't exactly "flip" a wreck the same way you can a mining jetcan - you can still loot it and then jettison the contents, of course, but the resulting can will be obviously not a wreck, and in any case much less tempting to the noob to recover than a jetcan full of ore would be.) Even if I was wrong about the specific mechanisms available, though, the fact is that salvage flagging is a great way for player pirates to sucker noobs into attacking something they can't handle. I'm sure the more experienced pirates can fill in for me here. ;)
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.19 05:58:00 - [44] I'm a fairly avid mission runner, and nobodies stolen my salvage. Not that it's mine anyway. shrug Just don't use the agent which is on top of the list when you do a Sort By Highest Quality, Highest Level Hi sec only Caldari State agent search through eveinfo.
Vaell'or Kurtanz Sick Cruel and Unusual Methods	Posted - 2008.02.19 19:30:00 - [45] At least we're not taking over said missions... Linkage
Toria Nynys Minmatar	Posted - 2008.02.19 23:19:00 - [46] God, I would PAY newbies to come in and loot & salvage my missions. After a while I feel so bad re: leaving hundreds of wrecks behind that I lose ISK/hr by looting & salvaging Guristas and Serpentis. I wouldn't feel nearly as bad if I knew someone got some use out of it. I mean, those guys drop NOTHING in salvage. p.s. shooting wrecks and/or warping out works wonders if you're selfish.
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2008.02.20 06:37:00 - [47] Shoot the wrecks the thief goes for. keep this up until he swears at you in local and warps off. Then continue salvaging. Tada!
Vaell'or Kurtanz Sick Cruel and Unusual Methods	Posted - 2008.02.20 06:52:00 - [48] Originally by: Dubious Drewski Shoot the wrecks the thief goes for. keep this up until he swears at you in local and warps off. Then continue salvaging. Tada! Salvaging is not a crime, and you've been dealing with amatuer salvager's if shooting a few wrecks has worked for you.. And yes salvaging in T2 ships is the way to go
Viilaa Caldari OH Corp	Posted - 2008.02.20 11:12:00 - [49] I have never had anyone bother me in my mission space but then I don't mission in the Motsu area (where most of this happens). The only problem I have with the whole Wrecks don't belong to anyone is... If they truly belong to no one then why can't I tractor beam a wreck left behind by someone else ? It tells me that I cannot tractor it because it does not belong to me. If it is truly anyone's wreck, then anyone should be able to tractor it. Viilaa
Sigul Siento	Posted - 2008.02.20 11:28:00 - [50] The loot in wrecks belong to the "maker" of the wreck. You can shoot at people taking the loot. If others could tractor wrecks with your loot in the, they could harass you mightily without getting flagged. You could allow tractoring of anyones wrecks and flag those who flag I suppose, but I don't quite see the point of that. And it would logically have to be extended to jetcans as well. Better then to disallow tractoring of wrecks and cans which contain someone elses proeprty.
FlameGlow	Posted - 2008.02.20 12:02:00 - [51] Originally by: Sigul Siento The loot in wrecks belong to the "maker" of the wreck. You can shoot at people taking the loot. If others could tractor wrecks with your loot in the, they could harass you mightily without getting flagged. You could allow tractoring of anyones wrecks and flag those who flag I suppose, but I don't quite see the point of that. And it would logically have to be extended to jetcans as well. Better then to disallow tractoring of wrecks and cans which contain someone elses proeprty. Yes, and empty wrecks cannot be tractored because it's incredibly difficult for CCP to distinguish empty wreck from one with loot. But wait, they already do it for overview.
FPF AJTK	Posted - 2008.02.20 13:28:00 - [52] Flag wrecks?? I wish they would UN-FLAG CANS FFS. Used to be nothing better than seeing a big battle at a high sec gate, run and get a hauler and come back and clean up on free loot. But, as for the "stealing" of salvage, its legal, so its not stealing. Of course, I have people come into my lo-sec exploration missions sometimes as well, and trust me, when your in a commorant carrying pithium loot and 2 guys in nano machs warp in, you would much rather they just go for your wrecks ') Move to less populated space and you wont have this problem, its quite simple.
Saloris Nighthawke	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:13:00 - [53] I don't see what the problem here is really. Quite frankly, I don't have the salvaging skill. When I am running missions I am not going to take the time to salvage those wrecks so why not let someone else take them? Seriously, how many people don't even have the salvage skill and those wrecks just sit and rot. If you have the salvage skill and this is a problem for you then I guess you just have to salvage faster... Umm....
Conq Er	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:36:00 - [54] Could someone list the mission running hotspots, so I can get into the bandwagon of salvage "theft"?
Dravius Luxor	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:43:00 - [55] Originally by: Conq Er Could someone list the mission running hotspots, so I can get into the bandwagon of salvage "theft"? Indeed! This thread has just identified my new income source. To be honest, I'd be doing mission runners a favour, it drives me nuts trying to decide whether or not to loot/salvage a mission, or just get another one. I wish someone would clear up my wrecks so I don't have to decide! Collecting salvage from career L4 mission runners' wrecks seems like a good idea to me, after reading this thread, so thanks OP!
Kusha'an Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.20 17:49:00 - [56] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Kusha'an Even funnier than that - *tractor* the wrecks they approach and watch them chase the wrecks futilely. My salvage/probing ship has a aferbuerner and can keep up with tractored cans, no problem. In fact, with 4 salvagers and 3 rigs, I can snatch the salvage as the can whizzes by. So does mine. I can drag them away from you faster than you can fly, unless your salvaging ship is an interceptor, in which case there's no way you have the PG to salvage. Hope it's worth the trouble you went to, but it won't be worth it around me. Quote: I don't do it for the isk. I do it to get salvage to build rigs with, which I then fit to my ships. Why should I spend a boatload of time getting standings for level 4 missions, just to get salvage? It takes far less time to train Minmatar cruiser 2, get a Stabber and take all I want with no muss, no fuss, no standings grind. What I did spend some time grinding standings for, was my Sisters of EVE agent. She gives me those lovely Sisters Scan Probe Launchers which let me use the high strength exploration probes to directly scan for player ships in mission deadspace in a reasonable amount of time. And my Quafe agent gives me those wonderful PP-series implants to further boost probing efficiency. Now that's worth grinding for. But not salvage. Good luck with that, while the rest of us get a life.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.02.20 18:06:00 - [57] Originally by: Conq Er Could someone list the mission running hotspots, so I can get into the bandwagon of salvage "theft"? F10 Got to My stats. Number of ships in space in the last 30minutes. Take your pick of the hi-sec systems which have a 100+ people in them. Beyond that work it out for yourself. I'm all for encouraging mission runners to be less lazy and I'm not about to encourage salvagers to be more lazy!
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.20 20:18:00 - [58] Originally by: Kusha'an So does mine. I can drag them away from you faster than you can fly, unless your salvaging ship is an interceptor, in which case there's no way you have the PG to salvage. heh, maximum speed of a tractor beam is 500 m/sec. Doesn't matter what you are pulling it with, you will just outrun it if you are faster than that yourself Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Kusha'an Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.20 20:28:00 - [59] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Originally by: Kusha'an So does mine. I can drag them away from you faster than you can fly, unless your salvaging ship is an interceptor, in which case there's no way you have the PG to salvage. heh, maximum speed of a tractor beam is 500 m/sec. Doesn't matter what you are pulling it with, you will just outrun it if you are faster than that yourself Thank you Captain Obvious. And your point is...? If I'm in a Catalyst, for example, with a named AB I can probably fly close to 400 m/s. That's a total of 900 m/s. I don't know too many ships that can both salvage AND fly that fast without a MWD, and if I haven't ended my mission yet but am salvaging in deadspace the MWD is inop. So I'm right again. But hey, if you really believe in yourself, come on over and waste a bunch of time trying to get my salvage. I'm the one who'll be laughing at you in local. Boy, it's almost tiring being right all the time.
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.02.20 20:42:00 - [60] Quote: Could someone list the mission running hotspots, so I can get into the bandwagon of salvage "theft"? Dodixie's the one I use.

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