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Official Statement: Resignation from EBank BoD

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McRuder Gallente This Space 4 Rent Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:37:00 - [1] Unfortunately since EBank is a very public corporation in this forum, I have to make the public statement that I have resigned from EBank board. From this point forwards I have nothing to do with Ebank in any form or manner. Shortly I will not even be an account holder. Thanks.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:43:00 - [2] May I ask what prompted this and what your role within Ebank was? 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:49:00 - [3] Originally by: Kwint Sommer May I ask what prompted this and what your role within Ebank was? He was a director, and the reason to a point should be obvious. You think there's drama in the Kyrial thread, you should see our forums. We should charge like pay-per-view for that access. Sad to see you go MC. I won't discuss specifics but yell if you need a reference http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.02.10 16:33:00 - [4] Absolutely, completely, pathetic. When an obvious problem comes up you use it as a chance to fix it in the future. You don't quit. Of course you did screw up Ricdic, if he wasn't in default, as seems to be the case then you royally screwed up. But Shar screwed up too... he was discussing internal stuff and arguing about E-Bank policy and making PR statements he shouldn't have been. Why anyone would resolve over this is nothing but over-emotional crap. Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.02.10 17:02:00 - [5] Bet you're glad you got those alternate directors now. It's better then Quafe! Off-topic. Please don't point out semantic errors of the moderators - Mitnal
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.10 17:03:00 - [6] Originally by: Dr Slurm Bet you're glad you got those alternate directors now. Actually, McRuder was one of the alternate directors. As is Selene. When Tornsoul and *****monger left, they were made full directors. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.02.10 17:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Dr Slurm Bet you're glad you got those alternate directors now. Actually, McRuder was one of the alternate directors. As is Selene. When Tornsoul and *****monger left, they were made full directors. Oh, oops. It's better then Quafe! Off-topic. Please don't point out semantic errors of the moderators - Mitnal
Randy West Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.10 17:32:00 - [8] So should I hold off on starting a new account or not??
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.02.10 17:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Randy West So should I hold off on starting a new account or not?? There is no reason to hold off on starting a new account. After all you can open it with 1 isk. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Randy West Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.10 17:38:00 - [10] Then sending iskies to EBANK Ricdic is going to open it correct?
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.02.10 17:39:00 - [11] Originally by: Randy West Then sending iskies to EBANK Ricdic is going to open it correct? Correct. It can take up to 1 hour for it to activate. If you want, you can join the "Ebank" channel ingame
Randy West Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.10 17:41:00 - [12] Thank you for all the information
SonOfAGhost Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.10 18:50:00 - [13] Originally by: Kwint Sommer May I ask what prompted this? Originally by: Ricdic the reason to a point should be obvious. You think there's drama in the Kyrial thread, you should see our forums. It's not obvious, there's no information here at all, nor should there be a need to visit a 3rd party site to at least get a summary. Originally by: CCP Explorer This is intended, to not clutter the overview with information that new players don't need in their first few hours. (on stargates not being on overview)
Daeva Vios Ares Arms and Modules LLC	Posted - 2008.02.10 18:56:00 - [14] This has all been very dramatic and everything, but is this truly necessary? If others have resigned they've done so privately, and to me that indicates it's not a policy to make that resignation public. Forum drama may be fun and all for a little while, but come on guys...this is playing out like a poorly written soap opera. As nice as it would be to have all activities public, I think EBANK really should assign one person to make all public statements regarding everything to do with EBANK. If anyone else does make statements in EBANK's name, the offending party should be punished in some way. This seems like it would be a simple policy to enact. I don't know what in the EBANK heirarchy is preventing this from coming about, but it may be time to force it through in any event.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.02.10 20:22:00 - [15] Originally by: Ricdic We should charge like pay-per-view for that access. I'll pay 1 ISK!
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.02.10 20:24:00 - [16] Originally by: Daeva Vios Forum drama may be fun and all for a little while, but come on guys...this is playing out like a poorly written soap opera. Yes, but it's Sunday, therefor Guiding Light isn't on, so this is fill a hole on my life that comes around every weekend. :P
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.10 20:34:00 - [17] This raises a question which I asked in an earlier thread - but which was unanswered at the time. EBank is owned by its directors - presumably using the in-game share management system. All profits are owned by those directors. When someone leaves the BoD, is there some deal that they MUST sell their shares (i.e. ownership of EBank - even if no shares are used) back? And on what basis is the price for such a buy-back determined? Obviously who owns what percentage of EBank doesn't need to be public knowledge - but investors DO have a right to know how owneer ship of EBank is defined. And. more importantly, they have a right to know how ownership of EBank is kept within the BoD when a Director leaves - given that EBank has stated it has no current intent to become a publicly owned company. I'm just slightly (very slightly) concerned that less attention has been paif to the ownership of EBank (and it's profits) than should have been the case. When I asked the above question previously in an Ebank thread it was about the only question in there which was completely and utterly ignored.
YouGotRipped Gallente Ewigkeit Galactic Research	Posted - 2008.02.10 20:36:00 - [18] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 10/02/2008 20:51:58 Originally by: Daeva Vios This has all been very dramatic and everything, but is this truly necessary? If others have resigned they've done so privately, and to me that indicates it's not a policy to make that resignation public. He already motivated his decision. And these situations should always be made public giving a chance to the investors to assess the future impact on profitability etc. If Hexxx resigned don't you think investors would like to know about it? Originally by: Daeva Vios Forum drama may be fun and all for a little while, but come on guys...this is playing out like a poorly written soap opera. Actually there's more to this then they let on. It might be that arguing on whatever course of action sparkled a personal conflict in the end. Originally by: Daeva Vios As nice as it would be to have all activities public, I think EBANK really should assign one person to make all public statements regarding everything to do with EBANK. If anyone else does make statements in EBANK's name, the offending party should be punished in some way. This seems like it would be a simple policy to enact. I don't know what in the EBANK heirarchy is preventing this from coming about, but it may be time to force it through in any event. :) Adding another cog in the decision making process won't help a bit. But they could create an alt just for that. Happy? I for one would sure like to know what every member of E-bank position is in respect to certain events. Also his role and what part he plays in the success of E-bank's ops. Thus if one resigned I might decide to assign another destination for my funds.
cosmoray	Posted - 2008.02.10 20:53:00 - [19] I would be concerned in the way in which EBank has handled its control mechanisms, and publically aired its dirty laundry. 1. It is clear from an earlier thread that Kyrial Tidolfas did in fact take out a 1 or 2 ISk loan, and it went through. 2. Ricdic was TECHNICALLY correct that there was an issue with this loan, but: What is EBank policy for addressing a late loan Eve-mail with warning? What time scale? Another warning? Final letter informing the loan is in default? Flaming on the MD forum? Like I said Ricdic may have been TECHNICALLY correct about the loan, but he is ABSOLUTELY wrong if he didn't follow any set EBank guidelines. It would be even worse if there is NO policy about how late loan payments and loan defaults are managed. The end result is that an EBank representative destroyed a person's reputation on the forum, whether it was their intent or not. If Ebank DID NOT follow their procedure they should make an apology and throw some iskies Kyrial's way as a sign of good faith. Now I respect what EBank has done with their system set up, but Ricdic is acting like the shoot from the hip marketer (ala Richard Branson and Donald Trump) and will have no regards for standards or other people. In my book EBank has taken a pretty large reputation hit. Furybank does not have the same level of forum "marketing" or coverage but has just gone quietly about making a good product!
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2008.02.10 21:02:00 - [20] Originally by: cosmoray What is EBank policy for addressing a late loan Eve-mail with warning? What time scale? Another warning? Final letter informing the loan is in default? Flaming on the MD forum? Like I said Ricdic may have been TECHNICALLY correct about the loan, but he is ABSOLUTELY wrong if he didn't follow any set EBank guidelines. It would be even worse if there is NO policy about how late loan payments and loan defaults are managed. I agree that it would be nice to know the policies regarding issues such as this. If there are none then this sounds like a great time to make some. Originally by: cosmoray The end result is that an EBank representative destroyed a person's reputation on the forum, whether it was their intent or not. If Ebank DID NOT follow their procedure they should make an apology and throw some iskies Kyrial's way as a sign of good faith. I don't agree with this statement as Kyrial had no reputation or atleast didn't have a good one based off of past BAD attempts to get isk on the MD forums. Originally by: cosmoray In my book EBank has taken a pretty large reputation hit. Furybank does not have the same level of forum "marketing" or coverage but has just gone quietly about making a good product! I think it was in really poor taste to advertise another bank using this thread. If I were Fury bank and I was infact being quiet on the forums I wouldn't want my name brought into this whole situation. Very poor taste. I think the real discussion here needs to be about the policies that could have kept this situation from happening. The best thing that could happen now would be to develop those policies to avoid future mishaps. I also really like the idea of having one person that makes ebank announcements just as someone else already mentioned. Amarr Citizen 155 ---------------------------------------------- Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way.
cosmoray	Posted - 2008.02.10 21:06:00 - [21] Kyrial DIDN"T have a rep, and now he never will! For the record I have no connection to any banks or have accounts at either, but I was making an opinion about how the 2 banks are going about their business!
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2008.02.10 21:09:00 - [22] Originally by: cosmoray Kyrial DIDN"T have a rep, and now he never will! For the record I have no connection to any banks or have accounts at either, but I was making an opinion about how the 2 banks are going about their business! Honestly, the reason he never will have a rep is because he refuses to use any of the guidelines set forth in MD. Some of these guidelines might seem dumb or you just might not agree with them, but some of them are very important to getting funding and gaining trust. I don't think this is the thread to be comparing the two banks. ---------------------------------------------- Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way.
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.10 21:09:00 - [23] Originally by: cosmoray In my book EBank has taken a pretty large reputation hit. Furybank does not have the same level of forum "marketing" or coverage but has just gone quietly about making a good product! In fairness, our (Fury Bank) policy on defaulted loans is also not publicly stated. We DO, however, have a policy of naming defaulters (there have been none to date) but that would only be the case after they'd also failed to respond to eve-mails. As the smallest loan we do is 250million it's unlikely we'd ever be in a position to have a 1 isk loan defaulted. It's slightly concerning than in the kyrial thread, Ricdic said his recollection was that all overdue loans had been mailed - but apparently they have so many overdue loans that he couldn't specifically remember whether Kyrial was one of them. Personally I'd have just written the 1 ISK off ages a go (in fact I'd never have approved it) as the time to write just one ingame mail is worth way more than 1 ISK to me. And any mails sent about overdue loans (I've sent a couple of those - but the loans were subsequently not defaulted) are individually logged so that, if queried, I can identify the time/date at which they were sent plus produce a copy of the mail sent to one of my alts at the same time.
YouGotRipped Gallente Ewigkeit Galactic Research	Posted - 2008.02.10 21:09:00 - [24] Originally by: cosmoray Kyrial DIDN"T have a rep, and now he never will! For the record I have no connection to any banks or have accounts at either, but I was making an opinion about how the 2 banks are going about their business! Actually he still has a rep. Did you miss the post where he declared himself god of whatever religion etc? Too bad.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.02.10 21:27:00 - [25] Originally by: FastLearner It's slightly concerning than in the kyrial thread, Ricdic said his recollection was that all overdue loans had been mailed - but apparently they have so many overdue loans that he couldn't specifically remember whether Kyrial was one of them. Personally I'd have just written the 1 ISK off ages a go (in fact I'd never have approved it) as the time to write just one ingame mail is worth way more than 1 ISK to me. And any mails sent about overdue loans (I've sent a couple of those - but the loans were subsequently not defaulted) are individually logged so that, if queried, I can identify the time/date at which they were sent plus produce a copy of the mail sent to one of my alts at the same time. There were some good points/ideas in here. Just how many overdue loans are there? It sure seems like one would remember writing an email about a paltry 1 isk loan. Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.02.10 21:49:00 - [26] I have to wonder why a 1 ISK loan was even given in the first place. It certainly does seem a bit silly to have even been approved in the first place. Also, being that there's people on the inside leaving E-Bank, what does this mean for it, and for those that have ISK in there, if anything?
Daeva Vios Ares Arms and Modules LLC	Posted - 2008.02.10 22:16:00 - [27] Edited by: Daeva Vios on 10/02/2008 22:17:26 Edited by: Daeva Vios on 10/02/2008 22:16:53 imo the amount of the loan is irrelevant. It shows irresponsibility that it was not paid, and I would not want an irresponsible individual handling my money. However, it was also irresponsible to post that the loan was about to default, and if it had defaulted it would have been irresponsible to post without the amount that was left unpaid. I think the way to resolve this is to make an EBANK member's credit record/outstanding obligations available upon request from EBANK. If someone has an outstanding loan from EBANK and they're asking for public money, I'd certainly like to know. So long as a condition of this request is that the individual receiving the info maintains confidentiality, I see no conflict. I'm aware this is from the outside looking in and you can feel free to ignore me, but it would certainly make me feel more comfortable as an investor to have this information available to me.
cosmoray	Posted - 2008.02.10 22:29:00 - [28] whatever the results of all this, EBank had better make a post clarifying their position and controls. Also which other directors have left and which remain. If Hexx is gone would you stay in? With large amounts of uncertainty they are risking that a large number of accountholders will withdraw their cash, and a run on the bank occurs. The risk has just increased somewhat!
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.10 22:30:00 - [29] Originally by: Daeva Vios Edited by: Daeva Vios on 10/02/2008 22:17:26 Edited by: Daeva Vios on 10/02/2008 22:16:53 imo the amount of the loan is irrelevant. It shows irresponsibility that it was not paid, and I would not want an irresponsible individual handling my money. However, it was also irresponsible to post that the loan was about to default, and if it had defaulted it would have been irresponsible to post without the amount that was left unpaid. I think the way to resolve this is to make an EBANK member's credit record/outstanding obligations available upon request from EBANK. If someone has an outstanding loan from EBANK and they're asking for public money, I'd certainly like to know. So long as a condition of this request is that the individual receiving the info maintains confidentiality, I see no conflict. I'm aware this is from the outside looking in and you can feel free to ignore me, but it would certainly make me feel more comfortable as an investor to have this information available to me. I don't think financial records should be disclosed without the permission of the account-holder unless they're in breach of contract themselves. It's slightly different if someone launching an IPO states that they have no outstandings loan obligations to EBank and requests that EBank confirm this: obviously at that stage EBank can confirm the truth or otherwise of the statement. And, obviously, potential investors can request in an IPO thread that the IPO issuer makes such a statement - and draw appropriate inferences if they refuse to do so. But disclosing someone's financial obligations when they're not in default and have given no permission would be totally unacceptable.
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.10 22:36:00 - [30] Originally by: Daeva Vios Edited by: Daeva Vios on 10/02/2008 22:17:26 Edited by: Daeva Vios on 10/02/2008 22:16:53 imo the amount of the loan is irrelevant. It shows irresponsibility that it was not paid, and I would not want an irresponsible individual handling my money. I think you're missing a key issue here. As I read it, the following happened: 1. Kyrial applied for a 1 ISK loan (presumably as a joke?) not expecting it to be granted. 2. EBank had stated that requests for loans would be responded to by mail to discuss interest rates. As Kyrial received no such mail he had no reason to believe that the loan had been granted: Ebank defined how the loan procedure would work so he was entitled to assume that they would follow such a procedure if the loan were granted. 3. Kyrial wasn't using his EBank account - so had no means of knowing that his loan had been granted in a manner not in accordance with EBanks own stated policy. 4. EBank policy is to mail loans which are in (or near) default - but they keep no record of this and apparently Ricdic (who sends such mails) can't specifically remember sending one to Kyrial. Given those cirumstances (which I've only gathered from posts here - I've had no contact, nor do I want any, with either Kyrial or EBank about the matter) I'm not sure why you believe Kyrial was irresponsible. None of which is to say I'd invest in Kyrial's offering - but my reasons have nothing to do with some 1 ISK defaulted loan.

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