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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
FeeLtheSWARTZ
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.02.13 02:46:00 -
[1]
As of the last 2 weeks the Elemental Fury alliance has not been an alliance. Why? Faulty billing system or ccp's way of possibly getting larger alliances in the tourney. Who knows? The situation is that our corps involved in this alliance created it, was the alliance for the first month and suddenly was gone. This was petitioned to find out what happened and ccp's response was that a 2 mil bill was not paid in time. This bill was never noticed by the 6 directors that are highly involved in maintaining the wallet. Futhermore, it is drastically different from any billing aspect in game along the lines of corp hanger mails or insurance mails. This bill is not on the forums and is not mentioned anywhere that it is your responsibility to pay without notification. OK. So we respond by alerting them that the alliance never received this bill and that the 2 million isk bill would be easily paid. CCP responds by telling us too bad, to get your alliance back the 1 billion isk fee will have to be paid in order to reform the alliance. 1 billion for a 2 million bill??? Are you serious? To a smaller alliance this can potentially destroy it. Does it make any bit of sense to pay that amount when no one was informed of this? Is this possibly CCP's attempt to bump us out of this tournament? Is this how they respond to all the posts complaining that the large alliances were not "informed" of signups?
Surely we hope that the tournament has nothing to do with it and it's merely a badly designed, inconsistent process in the game that can be remedied. All of our bills get paid that we are notified of and this would have been no exception. What does CCP gain by being rude and sarcastic in their petition responses towards customers who have been ever-forgiving of gameplay issues and server crashes? I don't understand how enforcing this 2 million isk bill by destroying an alliance and forcing another billion isk out of us makes any sense. Fix the game.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.13 02:54:00 -
[2]
I wonder if that's what happened to The Kadeshi too..
I'd suggest escalating to a senior GM, but this is something all alliances have to put up with, and it's not as if undocumented features in EVE are rare or anything so dunno if you'll have any luck with that.
Another question is if you decide not to reform the alliance what happens to your 1 billion isk tournament deposit ;O
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Zen Horizon
Gallente Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.02.13 02:58:00 -
[3]
One of my alts was an active alliance director at this time and never saw any notification. How would we even know to look at the relevant billing area if there's no hint (mail, blink) to dig through the alliance interface?
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Phoeb3
Minmatar NO DISCRIMINATION
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Posted - 2008.02.13 02:59:00 -
[4]
Funny how most people I know think of CCP in the light of mistrust and suspect them of not treating clients fairly when it doesn't serve them best.
Hope this gets resolved and I'll be watching this topic closely.
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Jade Shalan
Gallente Winds of Dawn
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Posted - 2008.02.13 03:02:00 -
[5]
Another case where "The Man" wins.......
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Eclipsor
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Posted - 2008.02.13 05:17:00 -
[6]
tinfoil much? Why would CCP care about your alliance re:the tournament? Take your meds :)
however, CCP having a crappy GM rep and being known for a buggy billing system... yah, spot on. Not the first or the last time stuff like this has or will happen. Sorry to hear about your problems :(
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Mistress Suffering
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2008.02.13 17:42:00 -
[7]
It shows up in a new tab on the corp wallet that doesn't exist until you actually form the alliance. There is no notification, so its all very quiet. Bad interface really.
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Hortoken Wolfbrother
Amarr Free Lapland The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2008.02.13 19:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk I wonder if that's what happened to The Kadeshi too.. Edit; bwuahahaha maybe not; http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=703130
I for one can confirm that the content of that post is true. They are pvpers without equal.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.13 23:35:00 -
[9]
Hey you're back What happened ?
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Phoeb3
Minmatar NO DISCRIMINATION
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Posted - 2008.02.14 00:48:00 -
[10]
Don't hyjack a thread that has such important implications for those involved.
It's really stupid to think people would not pay such a cheap bill, and it's really stupid that the alliance billing system is not consistant with the other billing systems in the game. Design flaw or intended who knows, CCP just take care of your paying customers please.
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Phoeb3
Minmatar NO DISCRIMINATION
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Posted - 2008.02.14 01:33:00 -
[11]
Did some reading about the Alliance System, it states in part the following, Note: If Alliance maintenance fees are not paid on time, the Alliance is automatically disbanded. It is the responsibility of the Executor to maintain an overview of the times and amounts owed and ensure that the required payments are available.
I highlighted the last portion, by the woring in this portion of the text am I to assume that the money is automatically deducted from the executors alliance wallet?
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.14 03:19:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Phoeb3 I highlighted the last portion, by the woring in this portion of the text am I to assume that the money is automatically deducted from the executors alliance wallet?
You can assume that if you want to, an argument can be made that it's implied, but they don't actually say so, so assuming that would be pretty stupid. I'd say the "It is the executor's responsibilty" is the more pertinent part of that qyote.
Also I wasn't hijacking the thread you jackass forum alt, The Kadeshi alliance was disbanded a few days ago too, seems likely that it'd be for a similar reason.
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Phoeb3
Minmatar NO DISCRIMINATION
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Posted - 2008.02.14 03:51:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Phoeb3 on 14/02/2008 03:51:04 I don't think it was you I reffered to as hyjacking the tread. Who gives a crap who I am, it's not important nor pertinant to the topic.
I looked at the start date for the alliance and the close date. The dates appear to be less then 1 month apart. Go figure.
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GM Nova
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Posted - 2008.02.15 16:46:00 -
[14]
Hi everyone
The reason the Alliance was disbanded was that the alliance maintenance bill was not paid in time. A petition was filed where you were informed of this. No bugs were involved. You were instructed to reform the alliance with haste. Despite replying to Mindstar that you wish to remain in the tournament, the alliance has not yet been reformed. It has been almost two weeks since the alliance was disbanded, and four days since the last GM reply to your inquiries. In light of this, we have no choice but to pull your team out of the tournament and refund your entry deposit.
HUN Reloaded will be invited to take your place.
GM Nova Senior Game Master EVE Online Customer Support |
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Draekas Darkwater
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2008.02.15 18:08:00 -
[15]
Pretty sucky about the alliance bill and all, although purely as a fan/viewer I can't say that I'm unhappy about seeing the defending champs back in the tourney. =D
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Vasponger
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.02.15 23:08:00 -
[16]
Im glad this is only a game. If the rest of the known world just expected you to pay bills without notification, yikes.
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Woodwraith
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.02.15 23:25:00 -
[17]
It may have behooved you to message the alliance that it would be removed from its tourney bracket if not reinstated. The fact that the alliance is closed right now is not in question, the answer is the petition is still being disputed and was going to be given until this weekend to be sorted before ponying up another billion that may/may not get reimbursed.
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Sicariidae
Caldari Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.02.16 02:19:00 -
[18]
Nova, could you please take a moment and tell me what the billing cycle for the alliance maintance bill is? For example if an alliance is officially formed on the 4th of the month is the bill due no later then then 3rd of the next month? Is the billing cycle 1 month or is it shorter then that?
Regards, Sicariidae
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.02.16 18:23:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Woodwraith It may have behooved you to message the alliance that it would be removed from its tourney bracket if not reinstated. The fact that the alliance is closed right now is not in question, the answer is the petition is still being disputed and was going to be given until this weekend to be sorted before ponying up another billion that may/may not get reimbursed.
You ask to be sure and don't leave this sort of thing hanging to be sorted in due process.
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
Helganstandt
Finis Lumen
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Posted - 2008.02.17 06:31:00 -
[20]
Same thing happened to us a year ago. If you get your alliance back, I want Muffins of Mayhem back as well, but we escalated to a senior GM and nothing happened.
I think he quoted some patch notes from December '06 as to where the information was "readily available"
Oh well.
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Mitchman
Omniscient Order Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.18 02:49:00 -
[21]
Originally by: GM Nova
HUN Reloaded will be invited to take your place.
I hope that is because they are before CI in the queue and not for any other reason or invented rule. CI got told they were first in the queue.
New video: Pride, Honor & Retribution
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CCP Mindstar
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Posted - 2008.02.18 08:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mitchman
Originally by: GM Nova
HUN Reloaded will be invited to take your place.
I hope that is because they are before CI in the queue and not for any other reason or invented rule. CI got told they were first in the queue.
That is correct. It is clarified here in the signups post. -- |
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KIAEddZ
Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.18 09:09:00 -
[23]
KIA Alliance had this same problem about 8 months ago.
I missed paying the bill, a simple oversight, and due to a bug in the game at the time, I couldn't re create the Allaince with the same name..
I petitioned it and the GMS sorted it.
Wrangler helped us at the time, maybe contact him if this Bug is still the reason you cannot re create your allaince.
KIA EVE Home
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
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FeeLtheSWARTZ
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.02.19 00:09:00 -
[24]
Well thanks for ruining the tourny for us, I would like to see that we at least get our entry fee back.
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Sicariidae
Caldari Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.02.19 15:04:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Eclipsor tinfoil much? Why would CCP care about your alliance re:the tournament? Take your meds :)
Because we are paying clients like every one else in this game?
Did Cruel Intentions willingly give up thier first place spot on the reserve list? Or did CCP just decide that HUN Reloaded after "EXPRESSING" their desire to participate just get to move up to first on the list? As posted by CCP Mindstar, "- To clarify the above withdrawals, Cruel intentions were first reserves until the reigning champions HUN Reloaded expressed their desire to participate. Due to them being the defending champions, HUN were granted the top reserve spot. Then provides a link to another topic where;
GM Nova states, "The list of participants will stand as it is unless a participant drops out or is bribed out. Yes, this means that it is perfectly ok with us to bribe a team to withdraw. The only requirement being that the executor of the bribed alliance needs to publicly announce that they are pulling out. (No scams allowed)"
So it's ok to bribe an Allinace that's already enrolled? Was this some sort of read between the lines rule that we are to magically decript from the Official thread that states the rules for the Alliance Tournament?
Did Cruel Inentions get bribed by HUN Reloaded? If so why did they need to Express their desire to participate to CCP? Where is the official announcment on the forums from the Cruel Inentions Exectutor that they are withdrawing from the Alliance. The HUN Reloaded "DOES NOT" deserve any specail consideration becuase they are last years champs, they like every one else should be expected to follow the rules. Rules aren't rules if they are changed on a whim or not stated in the frist place!!! OMG!@W#$#@@!
CCP you have a great game, but you sorely "LACK" in treating your clients fairly and without discrimination. How does this make the eve community precieve you? I can't speak for them but I can speak for myself, "NO FAITH" in anything you say, meaning I have to second guess anything stated and expect it to change at any moment on your whim. The only thing I know that I can depend on CCP for is my monthly charge on my CC! I wish I wasn't addicted to this game! = (
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CCP Atropos
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Posted - 2008.02.20 10:48:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Sicariidae
Originally by: Eclipsor tinfoil much? Why would CCP care about your alliance re:the tournament? Take your meds :)
Because we are paying clients like every one else in this game?
Did Cruel Intentions willingly give up thier first place spot on the reserve list? Or did CCP just decide that HUN Reloaded after "EXPRESSING" their desire to participate just get to move up to first on the list? As posted by CCP Mindstar, "- To clarify the above withdrawals, Cruel intentions were first reserves until the reigning champions HUN Reloaded expressed their desire to participate. Due to them being the defending champions, HUN were granted the top reserve spot. Then provides a link to another topic where;
GM Nova states, "The list of participants will stand as it is unless a participant drops out or is bribed out. Yes, this means that it is perfectly ok with us to bribe a team to withdraw. The only requirement being that the executor of the bribed alliance needs to publicly announce that they are pulling out. (No scams allowed)"
So it's ok to bribe an Allinace that's already enrolled? Was this some sort of read between the lines rule that we are to magically decript from the Official thread that states the rules for the Alliance Tournament?
Did Cruel Inentions get bribed by HUN Reloaded? If so why did they need to Express their desire to participate to CCP? Where is the official announcment on the forums from the Cruel Inentions Exectutor that they are withdrawing from the Alliance. The HUN Reloaded "DOES NOT" deserve any specail consideration becuase they are last years champs, they like every one else should be expected to follow the rules. Rules aren't rules if they are changed on a whim or not stated in the frist place!!! OMG!@W#$#@@!
CCP you have a great game, but you sorely "LACK" in treating your clients fairly and without discrimination. How does this make the eve community precieve you? I can't speak for them but I can speak for myself, "NO FAITH" in anything you say, meaning I have to second guess anything stated and expect it to change at any moment on your whim. The only thing I know that I can depend on CCP for is my monthly charge on my CC! I wish I wasn't addicted to this game! = (
As CCP Mindstar stated, HUN Reloaded were placed as the first reserve team after expressing their interest in competing.
The decision to allow HUN Reloaded to enter was taken after the discussion on these forums about the oversight of not preallocating a slot for HUN Reloaded ahead of time. Unfortunately, there is no solution that will allow us to please everybody, once the applications were in, and as a result someone will always feel that they have been slighted.
I don't know why you mention bribery in your post; we commented that bribery of other teams in general was allowed and possible, but you couldn't specify a particular team to take your place, you would simply withdraw and create an empty slot in the team layouts. I believe I explained this in my post here, where I stated that it may take a few Alliances to withdraw before a particular team got promoted to the Tournament, since theres no way to know positions in the reserve list.
To clarify, Cruel Intentions did not get bribed by HUN Reloaded, and as such there was no need or want to post detailing that they were withdrawing.
Is your disagreement the fact that your alliance was disbanded and subsequently removed from the tournament, or that Cruel Intentions were moved to the second reserve slot behind HUN Reloaded?
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Malar
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.02.20 10:58:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Malar on 20/02/2008 10:59:30 ... where is my delete button again? --------------------------------------------- *Comments in this post are mine and mine only* |
Sicariidae
Caldari Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.02.20 13:12:00 -
[28]
The post was not because our Alliance was disbanned. The whole post was about how it really appears that you people make or change the rules on the fly. Doing so is "WHY" some one is allways going to feel slighted.
The points I brought up in my post were supposed to expose the inconsistancy in your dealings with paying clients either individually or as a group. The comment about bribing was an example because it wasn't "STATED" in the official rules, not becuase we wanted to bribe another team.
No offence HUN's I/WE have nothing against you guys, I only mentioned your situation because again it appeared as preferential treatment. Then it was mentioned about Cruel Intentions getting bumped out of first reserve because HUN were the defending champs and expressed thier desire to compete: sure makes it look like rules were bent in order to satisfy your group.
Anyways I'm through with this situation.
CCP if you haven't already done so, please refund the pilot that paid our Allinace entry fee so the funds can be returned to all those who donated from our group.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.20 21:01:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sicariidae The points I brought up in my post were supposed to expose the inconsistancy in your dealings with paying clients either individually or as a group. The comment about bribing was an example because it wasn't "STATED" in the official rules, not becuase we wanted to bribe another team.
Rules didn't state it wasn't allowed so why the HECK (ffs kieron :\) are you complaining about them saying it is allowed, if they'd said it wasn't allowed then you'd have something to complain about.
Quote:
No offence HUN's I/WE have nothing against you guys, I only mentioned your situation because again it appeared as preferential treatment. Then it was mentioned about Cruel Intentions getting bumped out of first reserve because HUN were the defending champs and expressed thier desire to compete: sure makes it look like rules were bent in order to satisfy your group.
Yes they got preferential treatment, no it's not fair to Cruel Intentions, but hey life's a ***** and then you die. Good call really, it's a better tournament because of their unfair ruling and that's more important (in my opinion).
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Victor Ivanov
Minmatar The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.21 22:46:00 -
[30]
I actually disagree with Tyrrax: There was no preferential treatment in the case of HUN reloaded, merely the application of an universal concept for competitions that is perceived as somewhat inevitable and common place:
The defending champion gets the right to defend their title.
That's all there is to it. If this was some arbitrary alliance like say "Victor Ivanov's 1 man alliance of doom" (Name copyrighted), and it'd get magically transported to the first spot of the reserve list: Sure, complaints would be justified.
Seeing as how "Victor Ivanov's 1 man alliance of doom" isn't partaking in this particular alliance tournament for fear of unfair odds towards the opposition, we can all rest easy knowing that all is well and there is a rational explanation as to why HUN got given the respect they rightfully deserve for winning the last tourney. ----------------------
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