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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2008.02.17 14:57:00 -
[31]
 Quote:
Remember kids, this game is not a race to get the most skillpoints ... it's how you use those skillpoints that counts ...
In a 1vs1 battleship combat. Tell me how my newb char could kill your t2 fitted BS ?
In order to have a chance against any player, in any situation, there is a race about Sp.
Then, i like the idea to delete all learning skills in exchange of some compensations.
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Alberic Nydorm
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Posted - 2008.02.17 15:40:00 -
[32]
Personally don't see anything wrong with the learning skills.
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jita pc232323
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Posted - 2008.02.19 11:41:00 -
[33]
Just give everyone all learning skills to lvl 5 and make every new character start with all learning skills at lvl 5. Its the easiest/fairest solution for CCP and means they don't have to worry about skill compensation etc.
Gets my vote. |
Mawusi
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Posted - 2008.02.19 12:52:00 -
[34]
Im a new player of about 7-8 weeks and I personally dont see a problem with learning skills.
I disagree that its a disadvantage to new players. I have only just started concentrating on my Learning skills having only previously done Learning Skill to Lvl 4.
I now have Lvl 4 in all basic learning skills, and Lvl 2 in all the advanced skills yet I have still been able to get skills such as Electronics Lvl 4, Shield Operation, Lvl 4, Engineering Lvl 4, etc, etc,.
I cant see the problem with learning skills to be honest......
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Ryuga VonRhaiden
Caldari
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
Deus Ex.
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Posted - 2008.02.19 16:58:00 -
[35]
i've had my learning skills lv4 (base only, takes less than a week) for months, learning useful skills first, then i learned 1 or 2 lvl 5 while raising my wallet for the next step of "useful skills" (when i stepped up from destroyer to cruisers and relative weapons).
i got my adv learning skills to 3-4 after the patch that lowered pre-reqs to basic lvl 4s.
i never felt i "lost" something, i got skills i really needed before training learning skills, and i used them to do things, increase my wallet, so i actually "wasted" no time on learning skills.
don't think about the 10-15 days you will lose overall by training learning skills 2-3 months later, they'll mean nothing after years of play.
Do not try and find the signature... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no signature. |
Gadawan
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Posted - 2008.02.20 11:00:00 -
[36]
Learning skills suck.
Most worthless idea I've ever seen to be honest.
Who honestly wants to train a skill that doesn't really do anything for you?
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Thorture
Caldari
Bessemer Inc
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Posted - 2008.02.20 11:13:00 -
[37]
Well they don't need to remove them..just auto set everyone to Learning skills 5. To be honest i actually quit because of the training skills since i felt like i was "wasting time" if i concentrate on other stuff. Now it's ok..i have all the advanced to lvl 3 at least and i feel like I'm actually moving forward.
Training learning skills didn't give me that feeling.
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Iain Cubair
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.20 12:17:00 -
[38]
Learning skills are fine, they smoothen out the difference in base stats between races.
If there were no learning skills the difference between a low and a high perception char would
be too high. After a couple of weeks everybody would reroll to achura or another low charisma
race.
Don't think there should be more learning skills though.
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Jill Antaris
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Posted - 2008.02.20 14:32:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Jill Antaris on 20/02/2008 14:35:25
Originally by: Thorture
Well they don't need to remove them..just auto set everyone to Learning skills 5. To be honest i actually quit because of the training skills since i felt like i was "wasting time" if i concentrate on other stuff. Now it's ok..i have all the advanced to lvl 3 at least and i feel like I'm actually moving forward.
Training learning skills didn't give me that feeling.
So you want something but donŠt want to let go other things in the beginnig to do it? Fine give every lazy player +10 to her stats that donŠt have the the time or the will to wait for something that hurts now but will be good in 2-3 years... 
If you feel you wast your time donŠt do them, simply as this.
You can easy do skills to play and the Learnings to 4/3 in the first month, hell even during the trail. If people quit because doing learnings they will quit anyway.
Also the learnings as mentioned before are needet to balance out atributes in the long run.
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Nerf Lasers!
Thay need far to less CPU and Grid to Fit.
Still using not enught Cap and do far to mutch Damage.
O wait... they allready did... =( |
Squidgey
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Posted - 2008.02.21 11:39:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Bruce Deorum
A new player is almost forced to start by learning skills, (thinking he will ruin his character if he doesnt so).
This only happens if some nub kid comes on here and you vets tell him he NEEDS to train learning skills ASAP or hes borked for life.
I read that learnign skills in a month thing, but I'm following evemon's game and only doing a few skills at a time where it helps out my desired progression path. And I've noticed that not even Evemon is perfect, simply by rearranging a couple skills I can almost always drop up to an hour off the total time.
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Kery Nysell
Caldari
Nysell Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.02.21 20:26:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod
Quote:
Remember kids, this game is not a race to get the most skillpoints ... it's how you use those skillpoints that counts ...
In a 1vs1 battleship combat. Tell me how my newb char could kill your t2 fitted BS ?
In order to have a chance against any player, in any situation, there is a race about Sp.
Then, i like the idea to delete all learning skills in exchange of some compensations.
If it was against me, a nublet would probably win, simply because I really hate the PvP side of MMOs and I won't make any effort to do it right. My ships are PvE fitted, and will stay like that for a long time.
A week old char with a scrambler, jammer and NOS could kill my ships ... if the player behind the keyboard is a competent PvPer. And that was my point, really, the player is more important than the character ... tactics and a good brain are vastly superior than fittings and ships ...
<~ sig starts here
My Skills |
Yargo Metash
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.21 20:49:00 -
[42]
A lvl 3 Advanced Learning skill would be a nice dream.
But the system is ok as it is. They're an illustration of long range thinking.
"These skills won't do much for me now, but add them up over time and I'll train faster than I will without."
Recent example: I'm needing to train up my social skills, (Social 3, Negotiation 3, Connections 2) and my social learning skill is only at 3 currently. Getting that and Presence up, I can see these skills going from their current half day 1d plus down to a more comforatble 5-hour 14 hour skills. (currently 13 cha, +3 implant. 13 mil skillpoints.)
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Cygg
Minmatar
Shoal of the Intrepid Righteousness
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Posted - 2008.02.23 02:41:00 -
[43]
Advanced Learning skill would be nice. I think it should only be open to those that have taken all their Learning skills to 5 across the board. That way the people that went through the pain of doing all 11 skills to 5 would get the glory only.
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Cygg
Minmatar
Shoal of the Intrepid Righteousness
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Posted - 2008.02.23 02:46:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Cygg on 23/02/2008 02:47:28
Originally by: jita pc232323
Just give everyone all learning skills to lvl 5 and make every new character start with all learning skills at lvl 5. Its the easiest/fairest solution for CCP and means they don't have to worry about skill compensation etc.
Gets my vote.
So what about those of us that spent the time doing the skills? How are you going to comp us for the time invested learning them? Give us that many SP equal to the amount of learning skills to spend for instant leveling of other skills?
Bad idea. I moved all mine to 5 and I'm reaping the rewards of doing it. Why should you get a free ride and I get nothing for the time I spent leveling those skills?
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Jack Jombardo
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.23 04:22:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 23/02/2008 04:22:23
Originally by: Valenthra
Originally by: Althea Nar'agh
CCP said they curse the day when they've added learning skills...
So nope, won't happen...
Exactly... CCP have said this several times, they wish they never implemented Learning skills and I agree.
One time action: remove skills, gave all points from that skills as a "freebe" that everyone can relocate to other skills. re-balance learning speed.
^ would be realy cool 
I would place mine into Cruiser IV->V and BC IV->V ;)
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Syniztur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.02.23 15:43:00 -
[46]
Quote:
In a 1vs1 battleship combat. Tell me how my newb char could kill your t2 fitted BS ?
In order to have a chance against any player, in any situation, there is a race about Sp.
Then, i like the idea to delete all learning skills in exchange of some compensations.
This is NOT directed at you Voskhod... just a reference.
I read through these forums all the time. I do a hell of a lot of reading in multiple sections on this forum. I very very rarely post anything at all... so having said that, I have to say, this is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
Why in the 9hells would you expect your newb pilot to be able to take on a T2 fitted vet pilot? If you even think about attempting that, the game should automatically uninstall itself, and nuke your hard drive.
I see all this 'cow dung' about people wanting their nub toons (most likely their alts for silly reasons) to be able to get into the same situations as their vet pilot. Get over it. Not gonna happen.
Should that ever happen, the game is officially broken, and I'm sure it would loose a majority of it's well rounded pilots who have 'Earned' the right to fly what they have spent so much time and effort on. At that point, vets leave, and then you'd be stuck with a game full of WoW players. Ya... that's just what you want.
It has been stated before. Learning skills are NOT required for a new player to learn. If a new player doesn't take the time to figure out what type of toon/character/pilot to create, then they deserve the frustration they run into down the line. These forums are here for a reason, and there are thousands of people in EVE willing to give advice to a nub player. All they need do is ask.
However, rather than ask for that sage advice, or reading these forums, they choose to ask for an entire game redevelopment because they don't want to put in the time and effort everyone else has.
Get over it. It is what it is. Either invest the time in the game and enjoy it, or go power level a WoW toon and be happy with it instead.
/rantoff 
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| Do unto others, before they can do unto you! |
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Khorin D'tael
Caldari
D'tael Contracts
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Posted - 2008.02.23 18:08:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Valenthra
Originally by: Althea Nar'agh
CCP said they curse the day when they've added learning skills...
So nope, won't happen...
Exactly... CCP have said this several times, they wish they never implemented Learning skills and I agree.
Wrong...
1 dev said he didn't like the learning skills but it was too late to change it in 1 blog written by himself. It's not CCP several times and they certainly didn't say they "cursed it".
Find the quotes by all means and prove me wrong.
You are allways going to find ppl who like them or don't like them. The ppl who want to stay ingame for years generaly like them and the shorter term ppl don't. Plus even if you want to stay in the game long term but dislike them it's not obligatory to learn them anyway.
One thing I do agree with however is bringing out newer learning skills will only give an advantage to the older player for reasons that are obvious. Whould I personally care? Well not at all becasue as I stated before I don't have to learn them if I didn't want to and if PPL spent more time specialising in a certain style instead of whining about the fact older players being so far ahead of them and having far more skills they might enjoy the game alot more.
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Chelone
Stone Shadow Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.02.28 00:43:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Cygg
what about those of us that spent the time doing the skills? How are you going to comp us for the time invested learning them? Why should you get a free ride and I get nothing for the time I spent leveling those skills?
Training all the advanced learning skills to 5 was, in short, a mistake. You don't "deserve" anything for doing it. It also won't be "paying off" for years, except that you can look at your attributes and feel all funny in your underwear...
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cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.28 08:54:00 -
[49]
CCP regrets implementing Advanced Learning skills, and it's pretty much a fact that learning skills tend to make the initial month less entertaining than it could be for some new players. All in all, I don't think new learning skills will be introduced... ever.
---
Join BH-DL
Skills |
Kery Nysell
Caldari
Nysell Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.02.28 12:14:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Chelone
Training all the advanced learning skills to 5 was, in short, a mistake. You don't "deserve" anything for doing it. It also won't be "paying off" for years, except that you can look at your attributes and feel all funny in your underwear...
You know, that's funny, I made that "mistake" two years ago, after one year of playing the game, and it was a conscious and informed "mistake" on my part ... I knew back then that I would still be playing this game for at least a couple of years ...
And now, I'm still here, and I still have plans for at least two more years of enjoying what I do in the game, and I'm reaping the benefits of three months of training time two years ago ...
Learnings and Advanced Learnings are ment for the really long term ... they are NOT needed in the first couple of months of a character's life ... if you want instant gratification, I would suggest looking for another game.
<~ sig starts here
My Skills |
Chelone
Stone Shadow Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.02.28 21:59:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kery Nysell
You know, that's funny, I made that "mistake" two years ago
Sorry to hear that. 
Originally by: Kery Nysell
I knew back then that I would still be playing this game for at least a couple of years ...
Learnings and Advanced Learnings are ment for the really long term ... they are NOT needed in the first couple of months of a character's life ... if you want instant gratification, I would suggest looking for another game.
5/4 learnings are the correct way to go. Look at the math in the skills forum. It takes about 3.8 years just to break even on the level 5 advanced. Meaning it takes 3.8 years just to get back to the point you started at. You are BEHIND for 3.8 years, and therefore it takes even longer to actually see a BENEFIT to compensate for the 3.8 years you were behind.
Maybe YOU will someday play Eve long enough (5+ years) to see a real benefit. However, I've known people that train Advanced L5 with their big dreams, and quit the game before even a year has passed. I've heard the average Eve lifespan is something like 7-8 months. For every person that lasts more than half a decade in the game, and is able to benefit from their little 5% bonus, a far greater number have left, wasting months of time they could have been actually enjoying the game. And now - do you really think Eve will be around for 5 more years, without being supplanted by something better? You would really advise new players to make such an investment on that questionable future?
It's such a waste of time to train these skills to 5. But people insist on doing it anyway, in the face of all reason. Not sure why that surprises me...
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Kery Nysell
Caldari
Nysell Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.02.29 17:10:00 -
[52]
Chelone, you'll note that I repeatedly said that Learnings are NOT mandatory for new players, and usefull only if you have really long term plans ...
In short, we agree
But, for someone like me, that started in November 2004, and that wants to stay for a couple of years more at least, they are good ...
Btw, other games don't really cut it for me, I have perhaps two hours of "game time" every other day, games where you need to "grind" for 8-12 hours every day to make a bit of progress are killing me (I played in UO, AC1 and AO before eVe, I'm totaly sick of grinding). In eVe, I can play "slowly", do a couple of missions per week, but my character is still advancing ...
<~ sig starts here
My Skills |
Squidgey
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Posted - 2008.02.29 17:22:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Squidgey on 29/02/2008 17:25:27
Originally by: Gadawan
Learning skills suck.
Most worthless idea I've ever seen to be honest.
Who honestly wants to train a skill that doesn't really do anything for you?
So by that right nobody should ever take a history class unless they want to be a historian, and nobody should take a math class if they want to flip burgers.
Waah, life sucks, the creators of a game I blindly worship changed the way the game works and I don't want to adapt.
Yeah sure, I got in to the game late, but I have played other games where an update totally changed the mechanics of the game. The only people who *****ed were the ones who just used other people strategies and couldn't adapt on their own. Guild Wars always was and still is all about skill balance, with a counter for everything (whether or not that happens in reality is a reason for patches). There used to be a build where you healed for more damage than you took every time you got hit and was impossible to kill if there was a competent teammate behind you. It was insanely overpowered so they nerfed it and everyone cried like a little girl and they still do to this day. Meanwhile the COMPETENT players adapted and learned new strategies to counter the feeble attempts at a new build form other players. Within a few days a new "standard" build emerged form those who are smart enough to adapt.
Another example was people could farm tons of money easily with a certain build. Within 2 hours of the patch that nerfed that I was out farming again on a different build aimed to counter the new problems they added. Meanwhile the towns were chock full of cries of "hai wtf A-net y kant I uber farm wid mai bewld that I kopeed of teh interwebs I h8 dis gaim Im neber plaing agin". Of course nobody could possibly accept the fact that I was one of the few who didnt copy builds off the internet, so I was repeatedly called a noob for saying it was still easy to farm ...
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Manic Smile
Tau Ceti Global Production
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.01 14:31:00 -
[54]
VOTE NO FOR TIME SINKS
while we're at it allow us to hire NPCs to mine for us...
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Wash MySocks
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Posted - 2008.03.01 14:49:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Squidgey
Another example was people could farm tons of money easily with a certain build. Within 2 hours of the patch that nerfed that I was out farming again on a different build aimed to counter the new problems they added. Meanwhile the towns were chock full of cries of "hai wtf A-net y kant I uber farm wid mai bewld that I kopeed of teh interwebs I h8 dis gaim Im neber plaing agin". Of course nobody could possibly accept the fact that I was one of the few who didnt copy builds off the internet, so I was repeatedly called a noob for saying it was still easy to farm ...
That is why I quit PUGing in GW 2 years ago. I just can't stand the whiners.
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Manic Smile
Tau Ceti Global Production
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.01 14:54:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Wash MySocks
That is why I quit PUGing in GW 2 years ago. I just can't stand the whiners.
best just avoid the forums all together
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Jaabaa Prime
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.01 22:09:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Jaabaa Prime on 01/03/2008 22:10:04
Originally by: Flash Gspot
etc .... etc
Impulsive answer: Bring it on, let my previous skill training work for the better good (or for me?)
Experienced answer: No. Go away.
The "Experienced answer" has a lot to do with, well, experience, so please try again.
--
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Solomon XI
Caldari
Dawn of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.03.02 06:25:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Solomon XI on 02/03/2008 06:26:33
Just out of curiosity as this happened before my time in EvE but why does CCP curse the day they decided to add learning skills to the game? I think they're very useful skills considering the training time required. It makes perfect sense in a realistic way. The smarter you are, the quicker you can learn new thing's.
The game still takes a long time to get anywhere.
As for adding new learning skills, I do believe this suggestion isn't needed. You train the 11 learning skills and buy some implants. No new learning skills are needed.
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Jim Nakamura
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.03.02 08:10:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Jim Nakamura on 02/03/2008 08:13:55
Originally by: cal nereus
CCP regrets implementing Advanced Learning skills, and it's pretty much a fact that learning skills tend to make the initial month less entertaining than it could be for some new players.
Perhaps if you're the sort of new player that blidnly follows what people tell you to do, EVE isn't the game for you anyway?
I only started this character about a month ago, read the stuff about training learnings skills, and though "screw that". I stuck the occasional learning into my plan when it helped me get to the next stage faster, and largely ignored EVEMon when it kept trying to make me take advanced learnings when I didn't feel like it. I'm about a day away from Battlecruisers now, which is probably not optimal, but I've been largely doing my own thing with skill progression and picking up all sorts of bits and pieces here and there.
Leanring skills are only a burden if you let them be. Nobody is forcing you to learn them, and the training times on low-level skills certainly don't make them essential for new players. The way some people are going on, they make it sound like you absolutely have to buckle down and do nothnig but train your learnings for the first month. Big deal, it might save you a week or two over the course of your first six months.
Edit: After all that, I forgot the point I was trying to make. Learning skills are fine, and fit exactly with how skill progression works - you can sacrifice some immediate progress for improved progress in the long run. I don't see people complaining about levelling, say, Engineering to 5, but it undoubtedly provides similar long-term gains for a big initial investment of time. But I agree, an Advanced Learning skill would be nice - say, another 4% per level to base stats, with basic and advanced learnings at 5 as a prereq. Big timesink, but again, a big potential timesaver in the long run - and it would get around the diminishing returns issue and actually give people a reason to train their learning to 5 if they were so inclined.
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cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.03.02 10:16:00 -
[60]
Edited by: cal nereus on 02/03/2008 10:16:48
Originally by: Jim Nakamura
Edited by: Jim Nakamura on 02/03/2008 08:13:55
Originally by: cal nereus
CCP regrets implementing Advanced Learning skills, and it's pretty much a fact that learning skills tend to make the initial month less entertaining than it could be for some new players.
Perhaps if you're the sort of new player that blidnly follows what people tell you to do, EVE isn't the game for you anyway?
I only started this character about a month ago, read the stuff about training learnings skills, and though "screw that". I stuck the occasional learning into my plan when it helped me get to the next stage faster, and largely ignored EVEMon when it kept trying to make me take advanced learnings when I didn't feel like it. I'm about a day away from Battlecruisers now, which is probably not optimal, but I've been largely doing my own thing with skill progression and picking up all sorts of bits and pieces here and there.
Leanring skills are only a burden if you let them be. Nobody is forcing you to learn them, and the training times on low-level skills certainly don't make them essential for new players. The way some people are going on, they make it sound like you absolutely have to buckle down and do nothnig but train your learnings for the first month. Big deal, it might save you a week or two over the course of your first six months.
I agree.
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Join BH-DL
Skills |
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