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XFreedomX
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Posted - 2008.02.13 22:31:00 -
[1]
There should be a way for people to download their skills into implants for sale. It should take some time to download (between 1/4 to full training time for the skill, all the levels and not partial) During the download you can not train any other skills.
The skill then resides in the implant to be sold to others. The implant then can be plugged in and lost when you get podded.
I think this will be a great way for experienced player to make some isk while the newer players a chance to enjoy eve without waiting forever to catch up. Not to mention a whole industry based on this. We can have implants which holds different amount of sp and they need certain skill to be manufactured ect. Maybe even special facilities in station where you must have standing to use for the downloads...
Anyway... what do you all think?
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Morcam
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Posted - 2008.02.14 01:35:00 -
[2]
Sounds interesting, but I can see a lot of room for exploiting. People just making SP farming characters, and transferring the SP to their main, or to sell, etc.
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WardogX
Minmatar
Outkasts
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Posted - 2008.02.14 02:05:00 -
[3]
Edited by: WardogX on 14/02/2008 02:14:47
Simply put.. this would kill eve. Its only attractive to low sp players and would lead to eve demise.
Lemme take you through a walk into the future(...If eve allowed SP selling)
I think after everyone in the game with 100 billion isk wallets wins the 1st several rounds of SP purchasing bids and "literally" maxes out every single skill in the game and finally "beats" eve. They enjoy it for the novelty and bragging rights of things then slowly get bitter as the following happens..
then SP prices start to slowly plummet until they get dirt cheap .. by then most players can afford to buy maybe 200 mill or sp or so fairly easy. The point of SP skilling vanishes completely in eve.. This causes the loyalty for eve to slowly vanish from all the vets ("cause game got stupid towards the end" would be what they tell people when they join a new mmo)... after all the core vets mostly leave the game....it decays into 80%+ population of sp farmers and isk farmers (most sp farmers would be legit players looking to cash in)... then even people who came in late and enjoyed getting as strong as 5 year old players overnight eventually get bored and leave too.... then all the sp and bot farmers slowly are forced to quit due to lack of isk farming profit cuase the population isnt there to support it... eventually eve franchise dies completely and gets hosted on bootleg servers worldwide and becomes a relic.
Eve isn't a wow its only got 200,000 players. For most part they need to remain loyal to this fan base or the "EVE" biz is dead for them. If they go and dumb down the game at the 11th hour its gonna kill this game for most people and doing this isnt going to attract new players it just drives current players out. (which I know they wont do CCP is smart enough to know its got to be loyal to survive). I have played a few other mmo's where bad decision were made by developers or publishers and killed the mmo into extinction. There will always be people to play a game (no matter how good or bad it is to the general population) but you need enough people to pay for servers and staff or the company cant pay the bills.
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XFreedomX
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Posted - 2008.02.14 02:17:00 -
[4]
I think its not as bleak as you make it out to be.
First, alot of players have already maxed out their skills and are selling them anyhow.
Second, downloading skill to implant takes time so and require that the char stops training so they won't be a massive influx of sp on the market.
Third, implants can be destroyed thus creating a sp sink in the game where they previously do not exist.
Finally, I can see this as a way for veterans who are running out of stuff to train to use their training time to generate isk rather then selling their char for isks...
I may be wrong but lets face it, as the game progress more and more char will have near max skill anyways.
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XFreedomX
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Posted - 2008.02.14 02:20:00 -
[5]
Also, you only have certain amount of implant slots so its not like you can buy all the sp you want :)
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WardogX
Minmatar
Outkasts
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Posted - 2008.02.14 02:33:00 -
[6]
First to respond no one has max skills.. thats not even remotely possible (its like what 500 mill sp required to do that?.. dont remeber what it was with all skills maxed on Armageddon day on test)
So no one is even close to being "max" and people would easily scoop up more SP just to be max at everything. I'd fill up all 5 jumpclones if i needed to.. each one with specific skill roles.
Not sure how long you been playing eve.. but after a few years of payin for skills and flipping them during holidays and vacations and before work. You get attached to that hard earned SP. I don't think I am alone in sayin if people could start buyin SP it slowly would kill the game. The extreme price of SP buying at 1st would make it a rich mans novelty.. but after the prices drop.. is when chaos begins to ensue.
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XFreedomX
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Posted - 2008.02.14 03:25:00 -
[7]
By Max skill I mean the skills that you care about. A pvp char would not need Research or Industrial skills and vise versa. Most people are specializing char any how.
All that aside, I still do not see where you draw the conclusion where a person with (10) skill implant which adds 10 skills to a char would which by the way means he does not have them for attribute increase diminishes the game?
That couple with the fact that the next time they get podded they are back to square one.
Also, keep in mind that to download a skill, you would have to have the skill trained in the first place. Skills like blackops for example can only be downloaded by veteran char who have the skills not some newly created isk farmer. And that veteran player is scrificing his training to do the download.
Finally, to address your concern about my gaming experience.. I am a veteran player, been playing the game with 2-3 account since the game was released. I am not threatened by the new players with same sp as me. They usually do stupid things and get podded and the implants goes with it. On the otherhand, I have maxed out my pvp skills so like to make some isk selling implants, thus the reason for this post. 
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WardogX
Minmatar
Outkasts
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Posted - 2008.02.14 03:52:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: XFreedomX
All that aside, I still do not see where you draw the conclusion where a person with (10) skill implant which adds 10 skills to a char would which by the way means he does not have them for attribute increase diminishes the game?
I thought you meant "all" their skills into a single implant. You said "download their skills into an implant" in original post. You should clearly specify downloading 1 skill for per each 1 implant slot. I didn't pick up on the subtlety of that. I agree 1 skill per 1 implant isn't anywhere near as bad as if it were all of them.
However, knowing this now...If its just one skill.. why not just train it? even the most hardcore skills trains like (rank 14's) .. carrier for 1 example...are only about 55 days or so from lev 4 to 5. Any one skill to max level is very doable and permanent if you buy a clone.. and doesn't waste an implant slot.
More importantly though did you consider how pre requisite skills would work with your concept? I'll use carrier as an example again.. if they buy a level 5 gallente carrier skill implant how would you account for all the prerequisites that led up to it?
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XFreedomX
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Posted - 2008.02.14 04:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: WardogX
Edited by: WardogX on 14/02/2008 03:58:26
I thought you meant "all" their skills into a single implant. You said "download their skills into an implant" in original post. You should clearly specify downloading 1 skill for per each 1 implant slot. I didn't pick up on the subtlety of that. I agree 1 skill per 1 implant isn't anywhere near as bad as if it were all of them.
However, knowing this now...If its just one skill.. why not just train it? even the most hardcore skills trains like (rank 16's) .. titan skills for example...are only about 65 days (give or take) or so from lev 4 to 5. Any one skill to max level is very doable and permanent if you buy a clone.. and doesn't waste an implant slot.
More importantly though did you consider how pre requisite skills would work with your concept? I'll use titan as an example again.. if they buy a level 5 gallente titan skill implant how would you account for all the prerequisites that led up to it?
Sorry I wasn't specific in that one skill one implant. This isn't intended to be a firesale on sp. However, 65 days is a long time to wait for a new player just entering the game and hot to try out some of the really new cool ships in the game. Not to mention if you can get into a command ship 65 day's earlier you can probably earn the isk back pretty quick (if you mission) so the market is definitly there.
I share your concern about the market saturated with sp implants but there are much more to this then a straight download. Like I mentioned earlier, there would be specific skills you have to train to do this and could also add access station facilities. Also the implants needs to be manufactured much like tech II mods... and on and on.
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Vested Interest
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Posted - 2008.02.14 08:04:00 -
[10]
See this post for an idea along these lines, I called it Cyberneural Reprofiling:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=665768&page=1#23
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.02.14 08:50:00 -
[11]
That is ... interesting proposal, altho as pointed out above if it would actual sp transfer it would kill EVE.
Now however one could do .. interestging modification to that idea in the sense that you could still download some SP into implant. However if ya got podded then that implant gets destroyed so it's not 'permanent' SP addition. It's the same as hardwires someone just has sacrificed some training time to 'build' that hardwire.
'Loading' that hardwire should progress at slower rate even than actual training, say 80% speed of actual training (and it would happen instead of normal training) to minimize somewhat effect of 'implant creation alts' maximized towarsds 2 stats, as that how they would be created.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
CBC Interstellar
The Unseen Company
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Posted - 2008.02.14 09:25:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Ellaine TashMurkon on 14/02/2008 09:25:49
I fully support this idea, I even had simmilar one some time ago ;)
Skills on implants can in no way "destroy Eve".
Implanted skills get destroyed with pod kill.
Implanted skills are limited, You can have only 5, maybe 10.
This would allow moderately skilled characters to jump in capitals if really needed, but with cost and risk. They would also need support skills anyway to be efficient.
This limits the need of character trading, and character trading is somewhat anti-immersive.
This industry could be related to refining corpses :)
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Cadien Cybernetics
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Posted - 2008.02.14 09:55:00 -
[13]
Ah well, the idea is quite interesting.
However, regarding some of the arguments which have been brought up:
First, there's this 'catch up' thing again..
New players don't need to catch up. Period. It has been discussed over and over.
Diminishing returns, 800k SP boost, cheap T2 equipment. It's all there.
Everything else would be unneeded, excessive pampering.
Secondly, many of those implanted skills won't get destroyed.
Simply because they will be used in empire, by filthy rich players, utilizing them to get even richer.
Or by filthy rich 0.0 dwellers who will simply buy some new ones.
It's very unlikely these implanted skills will help new players, except they buy ISK.
It is however very likely they will help estabished players build up their alts.
Again, it's an interesting idea.
I'd just rather be realistic about it.
___________________________________
- Balance is power, guard it well -
Please stop using the word 'nerf'
Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters |
Ellaine TashMurkon
CBC Interstellar
The Unseen Company
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Posted - 2008.02.14 10:44:00 -
[14]
They will probably not help newbies very much. They won't be able to choose wisely to get maximum effect. They will help younger organisations gain their edge in pvp tho.
A corp with good resources but mostly one year old characters facing POS war? Buy dread and carrier skills on implants and for a fleet of 5 capitals with good skills.
I'm an old vet and I want to improve my corp newbies performance in pvp. I can sacrifice some of my SP growth to let theese people use some high gunnery or drone skillstoday, not next months.
Its also good for alts. Alt needs science skills? Lets print some for him.
More choices and uses = more implants used = bigger joy of podding.
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Trooks Breif
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Posted - 2008.02.14 11:51:00 -
[15]
Make it so the sp you download into the implant you lose. Therefore you would have to retrain the skill. That might keep people from putting high end skills on the implants and if they do, not that often. Would you want to put a skill on an implant that took you a month to train? lol. Also, I think this would be a nice change as we could use those implants for any alts on the same account. Then those characters would be of more use to us.
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.02.14 13:25:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Trooks Breif
Make it so the sp you download into the implant you lose. Therefore you would have to retrain the skill. That might keep people from putting high end skills on the implants and if they do, not that often. Would you want to put a skill on an implant that took you a month to train? lol. Also, I think this would be a nice change as we could use those implants for any alts on the same account. Then those characters would be of more use to us.
Yes. I would do it. I would start new account and use GTC's to run it to provide myself with those implants. There would be that character with ultra specced attributes to train the skill I want fast. Ofc I would not it on my 'main'. Then I would plug those implants into my 'carebear' hi sec clone.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.14 14:26:00 -
[17]
All this coudl work if you were limited for example to 1 implant with 1 skill adquired this way.
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If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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WardogX
Minmatar
Outkasts
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Posted - 2008.02.14 17:01:00 -
[18]
Edited by: WardogX on 14/02/2008 17:05:53
After later finding out that its only 1 skill per 1 implant after some back and forth discussion with the Op.. i am not anywhere near as object to this idea as I was initially. I thought you could download say 90 mill sp in a single implant and that would kinda crush eve.
However, the new issue that arises with this "one" skill per "one" implant... is the handling of prerequisites.
If I bought a level 5 gallente titan implant.... I shouldn't be able to fly and Erebus....since there is a whole lot more then 1 skill for 1 implant embodied in this single skill. Titan has 10 prerequisites (11 skills including titan itself)....9 of these skills require level 5's.
If this were to work a person would need to buy a level 5 implant for every sub prerequisite skill up the skill tree along the way to titan. Infact that would be easy to implemented if you arent allowed to install an implant without the required prereq skills or imlants that are needed. Ex. You need Space command 5 (skill or implant) 1st.. Gallente BS lev 5 - and all its pre reqs (skill or implant) 1st...leadership 5 (skill or implant 1st...then all the second teir skils like advanced command 5... then capital 5... and only then could the user plug in a titan lev 5 implant.
Otherwise if a person could go directly to the titan 5 implant and bypass all prereqs its a whole lot more then this 1 skill for 1 implant concept. (in this case of using titan for an example including all pre reqs....its 11 skills for 1 implant)
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Admiral Piette
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Posted - 2008.02.15 04:26:00 -
[19]
make the implants so they can only handle say 500k sp, for certain skill and it's prerequisites. That should guarentee nobody putting Titan training on one
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Cadien Cybernetics
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Posted - 2008.02.15 05:06:00 -
[20]
It's still basically a feature to boost alt chars.
Honestly, who would provide his main with one of these temporary skill implants instead of an attribute implant, speeding up training of his own skills?
___________________________________
- Balance is power, guard it well -
Please stop using the word 'nerf'
Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters |
Escobar Noreaga
Amarr
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.02.15 05:09:00 -
[21]
add a slot 11 to the pod so it can fit only 1 skill, so a person that can fly say amaar hacs could put a minmatar cruise 5 implant into said slot, and could therefore fly ships that required that skill in the mini line.
He will of coarse have to have all coresponding skills to use that shipline effectively though.
Good idea, little tweaking and ill /sign
_________
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XFreedomX
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Posted - 2008.02.20 19:43:00 -
[22]
bump
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Althos Silverwing
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Posted - 2008.02.23 03:48:00 -
[23]
Ok, a conceptual idea behind this idea. SP Transfer to Implants, Limiting the amount of implants, by category the implants into different slots. BUT you also have to have the other skills required to use that skill at all, meaning if you were going to go for Large Rail gun Spec, you would have to have all the other skills needed to use that skill. But since those skills would be in the same skill group, you wouldn't be able to play the stacker game like in Anarchy Online.
Meaning, you wouldnt be able to drop into a certain ship or ability without having the other skills to back it up. So just having the skill to build Tech II Battleships wouldnt helpyou if you didnt also have the cruiser and frigate building skills to help it out. So its not really a bad idea, but maybe limiting also what level the implant can go to, meaning you cant put it past lvl 3 skill on it.
Back to Limits. You can also not use the implant if you dont have the previous skills trained to adequate level to handle the skill itself. SO add basically a bunch of requirements just to use skill implants like that, i doubt that there will become skill farmers and such, because already i know of 50 people who have 4 other characters they pay for just to use for building up those skills and then selling the character online to someone else who needs a character with certain skills trained up.
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