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Counterparty
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Posted - 2008.02.17 00:32:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Akita T
In this series, he encountered AT LEAST 3 streaks of 16 failures, 5 streaks of 8 failures, and 8 streaks of 6 successes.
fine. I'll post the odds for attempts with 50% chance of success. Odds calculated by going through all the possible sequences of 900 ones and zeroes and counting how many had streaks of ones of the length being tested.
streak of 6 in 900 attempts: 99.94%. streak of 8 in 900 attempts: 83.07%. streak of 16 in 900 attempts: 0.68%. 8 streaks of 6 is nearly certain 5 streaks of 8 is not so odd 3 streaks of 16 seems unlikely
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Counterparty
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Posted - 2008.02.17 01:14:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Akita T 100k tries, a SINGLE 20-long streak has a roughly 9.5%
Actually odds of a 20 long streak in just 10k tries are 48%. I can try calculating 100k, but that is a scale that takes a while to compute.
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Counterparty
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Posted - 2008.02.17 02:35:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Akita T that's 1-{[1-(1/2^20)]^(100000-19)} = 9.09% Right ?
Did you try your formula on small cases? A streak of at least 2 in sequences 4 long is 50%. THere are 16 possible sequences and 8 have at least 2 ones in a row.
Plugging into the formula above I get 57.8% from 1-((1-.5**2)**(4-1))
ps Sorry about the other post. THought I nipped it in time. I misread 0.48% as 48% from my results.
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Counterparty
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Posted - 2008.02.17 14:13:00 -
[4]
I would guess Excel used floating point math. The numbers involved at scale of 900 samples are well over 200 digits long. I used the bigint package in perl. That means the odds output at the end is an integer.
BIG DISLCAIMER -- THIS IS FOR 50% SUCCESS RATE.
#!/usr/bin/env perl use bigint; $streak=$ARGV[0]; $trials=$ARGV[1]; foreach $i (1..$streak-1) { $s[$i]=2**($i); } $s[$streak]=2**$streak-1; foreach $i ($streak+1 .. $trials) { foreach $j ($i-$streak .. $i-1) { $s[$i] += $s[$j]; } } # foreach $i (@s) { print "$i\n"; } $odds = 10000-(10000*$s[$trials]/(2**$trials)); $seqs = 2**$trials; print "streak free sequences $s[$trials]. \n"; print "total sequences $seqs. \n"; print "streak odds $odds [divide odds by 100 to get percent]\n";
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Counterparty
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Posted - 2008.02.17 20:50:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel that chance is NOT 83.1%, counterparty.
Is to!
In a sequence of 4 trials at 50% 1 or 0, number of possible sequences: 16 Number of sequences that contain runs of ones 3 or longer are: 3 Odds of a streak of 3 in 4 trials is 18.75%. In a sequence of 900 trials, number of possible sequences: 84527124981706439416374365586642657043015572165779 43540473713444267824409075977515906760942025150063 14790319892114058862117560952042968596008623655407 03323053418694398408134669970428282282305684838772 65313790144663684526840249878214143503802725836238 32617294363807973376 (thats 2^900) Number of sequences that do NOT contain runs of ones 8 or longer are: 14316131460534182970204009336705056124453982784743 78890914816837147446226370984966728442444730262268 19955043465430540946365508747009915746806301032438 64162265512416417805661926862590214778675042807801 87059234777991818237181157671478454135208702803174 89752595824336912585 (thats about 1.4e270) Odds of a streak of 8 in 900 trials is 83.07%
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Counterparty
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Posted - 2008.02.19 01:35:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Akita T
In other words, we posit that what we're seing in the limited results here is as far away as true randomness as it can be.
The allegation is that the set of numbers in Microsoft's rng sequence is non uniform but nevertheless has the correct mean at all the points of the distribution that have been tested.
In other words, the allegation is not that the rng suddenly rolled 200 sevens in a row (as it is nearly impossible for a character to see even two results in a row from the rng).
The allegation is that the pool of numbers drawn from by the rng has too many sevens, therefore they appear too frequently in the results. But the overall results still average what they are supposed to, be it for invention of different classes of ship, or all the values of gun tracking speeds.
The only way to create such a situation is to introduce memory(state) attached to every random process a character could observe. Then the 'random' results could be correlated with previous results to make both streaks and the correct average value.
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Counterparty
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Posted - 2008.02.20 13:41:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Akita T
My point of contention was that THE WAY the RNG's output is used in EVE
If your problem is the way random numbers are used, how could "a REALLY RANDOM number generator" fix it?
Suppose a dev descends from Mount Hekla to pronounce "The RNG distribution checks out fine". Could that actually satisfy you?
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Counterparty
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Posted - 2008.02.22 13:35:00 -
[8]
Results from Akita's data: hits 80486 dmg 1582513.3 avg 19.274 (nonwreck avg 19.273)
dmgavg | % of hits | type of shot 10.903 12.521% hits 10078 total damage 109879.000 label barely scratches you 13.335 12.413% hits 9991 total damage 133229.400 label lightly hits you 16.963 25.327% hits 20385 total damage 345798.500 label hits you 21.834 24.993% hits 20116 total damage 439212.000 label aims well at you 26.558 23.745% hits 19111 total damage 507543.400 label places an excellent hit on you 58.200 1.000% hits 805 total damage 46851.000 label strikes you perfectly I removed the shots from Rasta we. The 19.274 avg above subtracts the extra bonus wrecking shots get. The non-wreck avg just averages the non wrecking shots.
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Counterparty
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Posted - 2008.02.22 14:19:00 -
[9]
The median is 19.3.
Here are run lengths over/under median :
#ofRuns | Length of run | direction from median 1 15 under 3 14 under 1 14 over 1 13 under 2 13 over 4 12 under 6 12 over 12 11 under 15 11 over 27 10 under 18 10 over 41 9 under 53 9 over 100 8 under 80 8 over 142 7 under 142 7 over 331 6 under 322 6 over 611 5 under 638 5 over 1264 4 under 1257 4 over 2467 3 under 2504 3 over 5095 2 under 4927 2 over 9948 1 under 10081 1 over
dmg of 19.3 is counted on under side (646 shots)
If cutoff of 19.2 (615 shots) is used, nearly the same results: 1 15 under 2 14 under 1 14 over 1 13 under 2 13 over 3 12 under 6 12 over 10 11 under 15 11 over 23 10 under
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Counterparty
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Posted - 2008.02.24 15:19:00 -
[10]
You can't resist hinting you are some kind of crypto god. Then you claim analyzing this RNG is beneath you and pointless.
Until you start posting results, prepare to be ridiculed. |

Counterparty
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Posted - 2008.02.25 13:58:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Counterparty on 25/02/2008 14:01:35
Originally by: Semkhet
Other fishy patterns
Yep totally borked.
Here some frequency numbers from the full data set. 80486 samples over range of 194 possible damage values spread from 9.7 to 28.9 plus 58.2. The frequency oddballs are the high, low and wrecking value. Dmg 9.7 has freq 205, dmg 28.9 has freq 166 and dmg 58.2 has freq 805. Removing the oddballs leaves 79310 samples over range of 191 values spread from dmg 9.8 to dmg 28.8. There are 66 frequency values ranging from highest, freq is 470 (dmg 18.7), to lowest, freq 361 (dmg 28.2). dmg 21.7 and 21.8 still have same freqency (410). That is the only occurrence of sequential values at the same frequency in dataset. Two occurrences seperate by two occur: dmg 11.0 and 11.2 have freq 417. dmg 14.5 and 14.7 have freq 429.
Here is the full frequency of frequencies table freq of freq | freq | dmg values at that frequency 7 424 10.2 10.9 12.3 14.3 20.9 23.5 24.7 7 420 10.0 10.6 12.8 13.5 14.1 25.3 27.5 7 419 11.9 14.9 21.4 22.9 24.0 24.4 27.7 7 417 11.0 11.2 14.0 16.3 20.1 24.9 26.5 6 437 10.4 13.0 16.0 17.3 19.7 27.8 6 410 17.0 21.1 21.7 21.8 22.5 26.1 6 407 14.4 15.0 15.6 18.2 22.2 26.2 6 393 11.1 12.1 13.8 23.6 24.5 25.9 5 416 12.7 15.5 16.4 20.5 26.3 5 415 10.7 16.2 23.2 28.1 28.8 5 405 16.8 24.3 27.3 27.6 28.7 5 404 13.2 14.2 19.8 24.8 26.8 4 432 10.8 15.4 25.5 28.5 4 431 18.5 24.2 24.6 28.0 4 412 11.6 22.6 25.6 27.1 4 411 11.7 20.6 22.3 27.0 4 402 10.5 11.4 13.3 28.6 4 396 9.8 19.1 20.3 26.7 3 447 17.1 17.9 22.0 3 438 13.7 17.7 23.0 3 430 18.3 21.3 23.8 3 429 14.5 14.7 16.1 3 426 14.8 15.8 21.9 3 425 16.5 22.4 24.1 3 421 13.9 18.6 22.8 3 418 12.6 16.7 25.4 3 406 12.9 17.5 26.0 3 403 13.1 13.4 22.1 3 401 18.9 20.7 25.8 3 400 10.3 18.1 26.6 3 394 12.4 21.6 27.4 3 386 11.3 19.4 23.7 3 384 12.5 21.2 28.4 2 450 12.0 23.1 2 449 21.0 21.5 2 441 11.5 17.4 2 440 15.1 15.3 2 436 17.6 19.3 2 435 19.0 23.3 2 427 14.6 16.9 2 422 13.6 17.2 2 414 23.4 25.0 2 413 26.4 26.9 2 408 12.2 19.6 2 399 19.2 20.2 2 397 18.0 19.5 2 395 15.9 16.6 2 390 20.4 20.8 2 387 15.7 18.8 2 385 11.8 27.9 1 470 18.7 1 463 27.2 1 459 25.7 1 452 9.9 1 448 10.1 1 445 17.8 1 442 23.9 1 439 18.4 1 434 22.7 1 398 28.3 1 392 25.2 1 391 15.2 1 388 19.9 1 382 20.0 1 368 25.1 1 361 28.2
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