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WARNING: about faction crystals

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.21 12:03:00 - [31] what is your issue with Malcanis? also it's 1500% times the cost? yeah but you get 4000 shots. that comes to about 8 million isk for large faction ammo for 8 lasers. for 4000 shots. overheating does not make them go away faster. They do a lot more damage as well. including the fact that you don't factor in reload times for the dps. also you can change your ammo type at anytime.
Ash Vincetti Decorum Inc	Posted - 2008.02.21 12:03:00 - [32] Originally by: Tesl i must had defective ammo, mine lasted me all of about 2 days... It depends on what you are using it for. For example, faction ammo (this applies to all kinds of ammo. Whether Projectile, Hybrid, Missiles, Crystals, Etc) is simply not profitable to use for Pve / Missions. The cost vs benefit vs rate of usage is too high. In PvP, however, where combats tend to be shorter with higher intensity, faction Ammo really proves it's worth. Especially compared to tech 2. Both in overall cost, as well as in lower penalties for usage / higher damage. I rarely use a full rack of Faction crystals in PvP over several engagements, exception being heavy sustained firing, at which point you trade off a bit less damage for higher ammo conservation by switching back to tech 1. ----- free bree!
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.02.21 12:06:00 - [33] Originally by: Julio Torres I've never had a ship outlasting my faction crystals, so they have pretty much infinite use in my book Yep, boost amarr. I'm sick of dragging ammo from wrecks that can't be sold because it can't be repaired and repackaged. --- Fanboi noun: 1)Person who thinks you should be happy that Eve just got a little bit worse. 2) Idiot. Fanboiz: Plural of Fanboi Doorknob: Collective noun for Fanboiz.
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.21 12:14:00 - [34] Originally by: MotherMoon what is your issue with Malcanis? I don't have a issue with people who post proper comments, but coming on and flaming for the hell of it, is rather annoying. I came here to let people know an see what people think, but as usual, you get the L337 players who just want to sturr the pot so to speak, read his first comment. then may be you would understand my response. may be i was too hasty in my posts in responce, but too me, it seemed like a flame. Too many times I've seen people come on the forum and get blasted for what i can see are very real concerns. But now its getting off topic, But I'm going to state it again. I'm not here to ask for my crystals back I'm not here to whine about it I am here to let people know before they, like me, spend money on a crystal with out knowing it goes poof due to usage. Ive had this character since 2006, been away from the game for 6months in that time, and this is the first time I've even come across this. May be its because i don't use faction crystals enough. maybe its also because in the description its just not to clear that it takes damage from being used. When one is accustomed to not losing Standard crystals, and then you find that crystals are disappearing and you don't know why? then yes I'm going to post to find out whats going on. Had i not petitioned just for information, then i still wouldn't of known. reading "Volatile damage" in a item description means absolutely nothing to me. just like reading the META data level means absolutely nothing to me. as there is a distinct lack of information regarding the terms
Phoenicia Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.21 12:17:00 - [35] Originally by: Tesl WOW, the intelligence of Eve forums shines again.. You started it.
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.21 12:18:00 - [36] Edited by: Tesl on 21/02/2008 12:20:04 Edited by: Tesl on 21/02/2008 12:19:33 Originally by: Phoenicia Originally by: Tesl WOW, the intelligence of Eve forums shines again.. You started it. oh dear....sigh
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.02.21 15:16:00 - [37] Edited by: Blane Xero on 21/02/2008 15:18:45 Originally by: Tesl Originally by: Phoenicia Originally by: Tesl WOW, the intelligence of Eve forums shines again.. You started it. oh dear....sigh Exactly what i said when i read this thread.... Each faction crystal lasts 4000 shots, for a full rack of BS turrets thats about 8mill. and you get 4k shots for EVERY laser. for the same to be said of 8 projectiles you need to be able to carry 1600m¦, and each bullet (Every single one) costs about 2.5k EACH. so, 4000x8x2500 = 8mill. So faction lasers are prefectly inlight, have the bonus of only reloading every 4k shots, and you have a TON more cargo even when you carry multiple reloads! This was using Amarr Navy Multifrequency versus Republic Fleet EMP L btw. I Am, The Anti-JoJo.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:23:00 - [38] Originally by: Blane Xero for the same to be said of 8 projectiles you need to be able to carry 1600m¦, and each bullet (Every single one) costs about 2.5k EACH. so, 4000x8x2500 = 8mill. So faction lasers are prefectly inlight, have the bonus of only reloading every 4k shots, and you have a TON more cargo even when you carry multiple reloads! Your math is off. Large Amarr Navy Crystals are approx 1,000,000 each with about 4,000 shots, gives a per shot cost of 250 ISK, not 2,500 ISK. Large faction laser ammo is less than 2.5x the price of T1 hybrid/projectile ammo. Stop complaining already.
Taua Roqa Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:27:00 - [39] faction crystals, when loaded have an indicator on them telling your their damage, 0.02 for example, when it reaches 1 they pop, they last longer than t2 crystals (i heard 4k shots vs 1k) but yes they do break, otherwise there would never be a good reason to not use faction. and they cost far less per shot than any other faction ammo :) -------------------------------------------- [IMAGE REMOVED] Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. My I/Q Ration!!!11
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:38:00 - [40] Originally by: Tesl Originally by: MotherMoon what is your issue with Malcanis? I don't have a issue with people who post proper comments, but coming on and flaming for the hell of it, is rather annoying. I came here to let people know an see what people think, but as usual, you get the L337 players who just want to sturr the pot so to speak, read his first comment. then may be you would understand my response. may be i was too hasty in my posts in responce, but too me, it seemed like a flame. Too many times I've seen people come on the forum and get blasted for what i can see are very real concerns. But now its getting off topic, But I'm going to state it again. I'm not here to ask for my crystals back I'm not here to whine about it I am here to let people know before they, like me, spend money on a crystal with out knowing it goes poof due to usage. Ive had this character since 2006, been away from the game for 6months in that time, and this is the first time I've even come across this. May be its because i don't use faction crystals enough. maybe its also because in the description its just not to clear that it takes damage from being used. When one is accustomed to not losing Standard crystals, and then you find that crystals are disappearing and you don't know why? then yes I'm going to post to find out whats going on. Had i not petitioned just for information, then i still wouldn't of known. reading "Volatile damage" in a item description means absolutely nothing to me. just like reading the META data level means absolutely nothing to me. as there is a distinct lack of information regarding the terms Since your crystal evaporated, I would have thought that an attribute called "volatility" should have been the first thing to catch your eye. It's not like faction ammo having limited use is a big secret or anything, and you could have found out with a simple query in local if doing a comparison between a T1, a T2 and a faction crystal's item description was beyond you. Instead of asking what the situation was or investigating yourself, you made a long whine-post, that was factually incorrect, blaming everyone but yourself for your own lack of understanding. Your subsequent posts have in no way persuaded me that I took the wrong tone with you. I didn't say what I did because you didn't know something, but because you posted an ill-informed abusive rant rather than trying to learn. So your post got the response it deserved. PS: I was as polite to you as you were polite to CCP. Pot, meet kettle... CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

Terianna Eri Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:46:00 - [41] Stupid question - I understand why we can't repair crystals in station (because it would then be possible to have infinite ammo at no cost, if whoever owns the station sets repair costs to 0), but what if we could use nanite repair paste (which does have a fixed cost associated with it) to repair damaged crystals (faction and t2)? The amount of paste you would need to repair .01 crystal damage could be balanced so that it was, on average, slightly more expensive to use the nanites compared to buying new crystals, but it would have the advantage of, well, not having to go back and buy new crystals and just repairing them? Additionally this would finally make it possible for crystals to be repaired and resold, which has always bothered me. __________________________________
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.21 17:24:00 - [42] Edited by: Tesl on 21/02/2008 17:26:37 Edited by: Tesl on 21/02/2008 17:25:18 Originally by: Malcanis ......say something??...... wow you really are a complete nob! you have totally missed the point in what i was saying, you totally missed the point that it was letting others know about it. YOU totally missed the point that i wasn't even "whining" about it, What does someone have to do to drill it into your thick head that I DIDNT CARE ABOUT LOSING THE GOD DAMN CRYSTAL. I was pointing out that there was a distinct lack of description. "VOLITILE DAMAGE" does not say "USAGE DAMAGE" which is a much better team an completely understandable. Volatile damage. when something is Volatile its unstable, but it says nothing to what its relevant too. It could be Volatile damage to the targeted ship, until someone else pointed out, you just went off on a total troll out and thought i was complaining at CCP to give me another one. Please go to spec-savers or something and get your eyes tested, and while your there, crawl back under the bridge you came from. Your comments were neither constructive or welcome in this thread Just because you know something about Eve i do not, does not give you the right to flame me when i let OTHERS know. You were just as much in the dark at some point as i was. But then allot of people forget that don't they. Can i ask a Dev to close this, before i say something i shouldn't.
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP	Posted - 2008.02.21 17:29:00 - [43] Ive always wanted to slap the dev who decided to 'fix' faction laser crystals would work like ammo. They arent supposed to run out ffs, at least not as fast as other factions ammo does. Whats the whole point of being amarr if when you go to use faction weapons you are stuck with an ammo limit just like every other race. Cookie-cutter faction ammo = bad. Weapons Linking
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.21 17:35:00 - [44] Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/02/2008 17:37:34 Originally by: Tesl Originally by: MotherMoon what is your issue with Malcanis? I don't have a issue with people who post proper comments, but coming on and flaming for the hell of it, is rather annoying. I came here to let people know an see what people think, but as usual, you get the L337 players who just want to sturr the pot so to speak, read his first comment. then may be you would understand my response. may be i was too hasty in my posts in responce, but too me, it seemed like a flame. Too many times I've seen people come on the forum and get blasted for what i can see are very real concerns. But now its getting off topic, But I'm going to state it again. I'm not here to ask for my crystals back I'm not here to whine about it I am here to let people know before they, like me, spend money on a crystal with out knowing it goes poof due to usage. Ive had this character since 2006, been away from the game for 6months in that time, and this is the first time I've even come across this. May be its because i don't use faction crystals enough. maybe its also because in the description its just not to clear that it takes damage from being used. When one is accustomed to not losing Standard crystals, and then you find that crystals are disappearing and you don't know why? then yes I'm going to post to find out whats going on. Had i not petitioned just for information, then i still wouldn't of known. reading "Volatile damage" in a item description means absolutely nothing to me. just like reading the META data level means absolutely nothing to me. as there is a distinct lack of information regarding the terms I never said you were asking for your stuff back. hey hey chill, were all playing the same game. EDIT: when did Malcanis say you were whining about losing them? all he said was it was common knowlegde and you could of found out by asking around or searching or using the help channel. the second you said, "hahaha people that play eve are dumb" you lost any respect you had. you can't counter even a light flame with a total insult to everyone in the thread, don't you get that?
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2008.02.21 17:37:00 - [45] Originally by: CCP Atropos Edited by: CCP Atropos on 21/02/2008 11:59:50 Originally by: Tesl Originally by: Auron Shadowbane right, WEAPON getting dmaged is a attribute of heat and is called "heat damage". but you noob where looking at AMMO. faction crystals getting damage is to balance it with other faction ammo which get shot out. imo it would be cool to stop t2/factionc rystalls fromg etting damage and to balance it make them 100 times more expensive/rare toi account for that... i can understand the need to balance the game out with things like this, but when a faction crystal costs about 1500% more than what consumable ammo costs, makes it a rather tad bit more expensive when i go through a crystal faster than i can go through 500 rounds of consumable ammo. The cost is determined by standard supply/demand mechanics. In addition to that you have to consider the volume of the ammo, duration, damage types and how it applies to your activities. Edit: all tech 2 crystals are comparable. There are no differences in quality depending on who manufactured them. Can crystals be fixed so you can contract them? Currently a band new unused ship with unsued faction crystals fitted can never ever be contracted or remotely repackaged. Originally by: CCP kieron ISK buying is a major contributor to the inflation in EVE's economy.
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.21 17:55:00 - [46] Originally by: MotherMoon the second you said, "hahaha people that play eve are dumb" you lost any respect you had. you can't counter even a light flame with a total insult to everyone in the thread, don't you get that? Are you even reading the right thread?
Zarch AlDain The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2008.02.21 18:03:00 - [47] Tesl has a point - it would be a big improvement if the description (as in the words, not buried in the stats) of the crystal clearly said that faction crystals took damage over time and eventually went poof. Zarch AlDain
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.21 18:11:00 - [48] Originally by: Zarch AlDain Tesl has a point - it would be a big improvement if the description (as in the words, not buried in the stats) of the crystal clearly said that faction crystals took damage over time and eventually went poof. There are so many huge gaps and ambiguities in the documentation that I have long since come to the conclusion that it's deliberate policy. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.21 18:11:00 - [49] Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/02/2008 18:11:40 Originally by: Tesl Originally by: MotherMoon the second you said, "hahaha people that play eve are dumb" you lost any respect you had. you can't counter even a light flame with a total insult to everyone in the thread, don't you get that? Are you even reading the right thread? "WOW, the intelligence of Eve forums shines again.." who does this target? hmmm? I agree with you pointing it out more clearly would be great. but your smacking someone with a bat when all they did was show thier ego. not to mention it sounds like you saying the forums, not jsut one guy.
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.21 18:23:00 - [50] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/02/2008 18:11:40 Originally by: Tesl Originally by: MotherMoon the second you said, "hahaha people that play eve are dumb" you lost any respect you had. you can't counter even a light flame with a total insult to everyone in the thread, don't you get that? Are you even reading the right thread? "WOW, the intelligence of Eve forums shines again.." who does this target? hmmm? I agree with you pointing it out more clearly would be great. but your smacking someone with a bat when all they did was show thier ego. not to mention it sounds like you saying the forums, not jsut one guy. yes referring to the flames that spring from no where, but if you carefully take notice, it does not say "hahaha people that play eve are dumb" as you put it.

ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.23 22:06:00 - [51] Originally by: CCP Atropos Faction crystals, as with all other faction ammo is finite. To allow faction crystals the ability to last forever would be, well, rather silly. They have a volatility damage modifier that damages the crystals giving them a finite life span. If you have a faction crystal fitted to a laser on your ship, when you hover your mouse icon over the laser turret it will detail the damage to the turret and the crystal itself. The crystal will receive damage as you use it, and the turret will receive damage as you overload it, or you enter deep hull. It will display as "Damage: 0.04" or an equivalent value, as this image shows. Ok but another problem is that the Amarr faction ammo has 4000shots per crystal. When you buy faction ammo it costs the same amount to get 4000shots out of a crystal's, or you can get 5000shots off any other ammo. So the way i see it crystals should get more shots 5000+, or they should be cheaper to put them in line with the other faction ammo. Linking\|Kb Host
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.23 22:59:00 - [52] Originally by: ghosttr Originally by: CCP Atropos Faction crystals, as with all other faction ammo is finite. To allow faction crystals the ability to last forever would be, well, rather silly. They have a volatility damage modifier that damages the crystals giving them a finite life span. If you have a faction crystal fitted to a laser on your ship, when you hover your mouse icon over the laser turret it will detail the damage to the turret and the crystal itself. The crystal will receive damage as you use it, and the turret will receive damage as you overload it, or you enter deep hull. It will display as "Damage: 0.04" or an equivalent value, as this image shows. Ok but another problem is that the Amarr faction ammo has 4000shots per crystal. When you buy faction ammo it costs the same amount to get 4000shots out of a crystal's, or you can get 5000shots off any other ammo. So the way i see it crystals should get more shots 5000+, or they should be cheaper to put them in line with the other faction ammo. In compensation youc an easily carry 100 thousand shots in your cargo hold. Good luck carring 10 k for other ammos. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.24 01:03:00 - [53] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: ghosttr Originally by: CCP Atropos Faction crystals, as with all other faction ammo is finite. To allow faction crystals the ability to last forever would be, well, rather silly. They have a volatility damage modifier that damages the crystals giving them a finite life span. If you have a faction crystal fitted to a laser on your ship, when you hover your mouse icon over the laser turret it will detail the damage to the turret and the crystal itself. The crystal will receive damage as you use it, and the turret will receive damage as you overload it, or you enter deep hull. It will display as "Damage: 0.04" or an equivalent value, as this image shows. Ok but another problem is that the Amarr faction ammo has 4000shots per crystal. When you buy faction ammo it costs the same amount to get 4000shots out of a crystal's, or you can get 5000shots off any other ammo. So the way i see it crystals should get more shots 5000+, or they should be cheaper to put them in line with the other faction ammo. In compensation youc an easily carry 100 thousand shots in your cargo hold. Good luck carring 10 k for other ammos. But you can split your ammo into different turrets/launchers. My 4000shots can only go into 1 laser turret. I should at least get the same amount of shots for the same price. Linking\|Kb Host
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.02.24 01:14:00 - [54] Originally by: Malcanis Yeah I bought some faction missiles the other day and now they're all gone too. Faction ammo = Totally bugged. Yup, had the same happen to me the other day too. Thought I was the only one Vote Dynamic Tax!
Yllse	Posted - 2008.02.24 01:19:00 - [55] Originally by: Auron Shadowbane imo it would be cool to stop t2/factionc rystalls fromg etting damage and to balance it make them 100 times more expensive/rare toi account for that... I would gladly pay 8,400 isk for an eternal cruise missile.
Richard Phallus	Posted - 2008.02.24 01:22:00 - [56] Edited by: Richard Phallus on 24/02/2008 01:22:38 -- For heresy against CCP by posting images of the sacrificial goat Zulupark you are banished for two weeks - Wrangler
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.24 01:42:00 - [57] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Malcanis Yeah I bought some faction missiles the other day and now they're all gone too. Faction ammo = Totally bugged. Yup, had the same happen to me the other day too. Thought I was the only one Amarr are the race that aren't supposed to have a finite source of ammunition (I think its supposed to be a benefit for them sucking so much) I understand making the faction ammunition finite just so that it doent become dirt cheap and common. Linking\|Kb Host
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.02.24 03:18:00 - [58] Edited by: Matalino on 24/02/2008 03:19:22 Originally by: ghosttr I should at least get the same amount of shots for the same price. Current Jita prices for large faction ammo: Laser = 250 ISK per shot Hybrid = 1,200 - 1,300 ISK per shot Projectiles = 1,000 - 1,200 ISK per shot Missiles = 1,700 - 1,800 ISK per shot Torps = 2,200 - 2,800 ISK per shot Faction laser ammo's price per shot is closer in price to T1 ammo (~2.5x) than to other faction ammo (+4.0x). If you really think that faction laser ammo should "get the same amount of shots for the same price" then it should be shortened to 1,000 shots per crystal instead of 4,000. Originally by: ghosttr Amarr are the race that aren't supposed to have a finite source of ammunition Just carry a back up set of regular crystals in your cargo hold an you shouldn't have too much trouble when they run out. Originally by: ghosttr I understand making the faction ammunition finite just so that it doent become dirt cheap and common. This is exactly why faction and T2 crystals break overtime. The other option would be to increase their rarity/LP store costs such that they are on par with faction modules. Personally I am quite happy to keep them cheap but have them expire after using them for a while.
Cid Gurung	Posted - 2008.02.24 07:06:00 - [59] just so you know, until you have the skills to overcharge your modules, you wont be overcharging them... I mean its a well known fact that crystals get consumed... even faction ones. I don't get why your getting upset over all this.


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