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WARNING: about faction crystals

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:14:00 - [1] That's again to CCP's lack of info in the product description i lost ANOTHER faction crystal last night. With the first 3 times i put it own to accidentally pressing the OVERCHARGE button and thinking nothing of it. but this time i happened, i knew that i had spend all of the fight using the F1 keys. yet low and behold, when i went to use my sancha frequency M Inferred crystal, Boink!.... it wasn't there? So sent in a petition, not so much to get my goods back, but more to find out what the hell is with the ninja disappearance of my crystals. i got this lovely reply Quote: Hi, Thanks for contacting customer support. Sorry to hear about your loss. Faction or tech 2 crystals cannot be used forever after an amount of use they disappear because of the damage received. If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to contact us again. Best regards, GM XXXXXXXXX <---- removed so :P EVE Online Customer Support Gotta love the fact that they do not share this information in the item description window, it might of made me change my mind about purchasing it. also kinda puts you at a loss when you don't know about this type of thing, and you loss over 15mills worth of crystals due to "lack of warning". Sure, they may have been something about it, but i haven't played for over 6months, and coming back to the game, and finding me crystals going poof? for no reason is a bit bloody annoying. It might be OK for some but for me, with my lowly amount of ISKS, i cant afford to keep replacing them Oh well, looks like I'm going to be stuck using stands for now Thanks for that CCP.... So I'm here to let you all know before you wonder what the hell is going on with your disappearing Faction crystals.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:18:00 - [2] Yeah I bought some faction missiles the other day and now they're all gone too. Faction ammo = Totally bugged. OMG FIX THIS RIGHT NOW CCP KTHXBAI! I PAY FOR ELEVENTY-NINE ACCOUNTS AND I EXPECT EVERLASTING DAMAGE BONUS AMMO. THIS IS NOT A WHINE!!!11 CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:18:00 - [3] Did you seriously expect that faction crystals would last forever? They have a limited lifetime, and it has always been like that. Your quote is going to be sniped, too. ------------------------------------------
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:19:00 - [4] Now you know! ... and knowing is half the battle! G.I. JOEEEEEE!!!!!!! Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
Gold Rogers Solitude Empires United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:22:00 - [5] The description lists that they take damage. ---------
Rosa Rosette	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:22:00 - [6] ebil ebil CCP!!! they did not make you read the info on the crystals.... look for amarr navy crystals in amarr space.. they are farily cheap here or run some missions and get them for lp
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:27:00 - [7] I don't understand.. Faction has always had tech 2 ATTRIBUTES with tech 1 GAINS. You'd think faction crystals therefore would not break, because tech 2 are attributed to break. I don't see Federation Navy Antimatter having any tracking penalties.
Firkragg PREDATORS OF DESTRUCTION	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:29:00 - [8] Amarr navy MF large are about 1mill each. They also last for absolutely ages. Ive been using mine lots and its only used up by about 10%.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:30:00 - [9] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa I don't understand.. Faction has always had tech 2 ATTRIBUTES with tech 1 GAINS. You'd think faction crystals therefore would not break, because tech 2 are attributed to break. I don't see Federation Navy Antimatter having any tracking penalties. Yeah you might want to think about game balance issues... IIRC faction crystals last 4x as long as tech2. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:32:00 - [10] Did you read the stats at all? Regular Amarr sucks, and Faction Amarr ammo sucks more, I'm surprised you even loaded it, why do you want to do LESS damage? Amarr Faction ammo also uses more, drains your armor and causes your own drones to attack you. Seriously don't load that stuff. Also how come on my lasers it doesn't have the "Do not look into aperture" warning? --- Fanboi noun: 1)Person who thinks you should be happy that Eve just got a little bit worse. 2) Idiot. Fanboiz: Plural of Fanboi Doorknob: Collective noun for Fanboiz.

Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Malcanis Yeah I bought some faction missiles the other day and now they're all gone too. Faction ammo = Totally bugged. OMG FIX THIS RIGHT NOW CCP KTHXBAI! I PAY FOR ELEVENTY-NINE ACCOUNTS AND I EXPECT EVERLASTING DAMAGE BONUS AMMO. THIS IS NOT A WHINE!!!11 /me throws the TROLL a cookie, now bugger off and don't post again WOW, the intelligence of Eve forums shines again.. IF you bothered to take the time to read AND digest (hard i know, but still it can be done) You would of noticed that i wasn't asking for my crystals back (although that would be nice) i was doing something that CCP didn't do, ALERT OTHER PLAYERS TO THE FACT. Really are some right R*****ds around here.... As for the "damaged taken" argument, er.....isn't that a game mechanic of OVERCHARGING your weapons? Not by NORMAL use. (Caps used to emphasize)
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:35:00 - [12] Originally by: Tesl Originally by: Malcanis Yeah I bought some faction missiles the other day and now they're all gone too. Faction ammo = Totally bugged. OMG FIX THIS RIGHT NOW CCP KTHXBAI! I PAY FOR ELEVENTY-NINE ACCOUNTS AND I EXPECT EVERLASTING DAMAGE BONUS AMMO. THIS IS NOT A WHINE!!!11 /me throws the TROLL a cookie, now bugger off and don't post again WOW, the intelligence of Eve forums shines again.. IF you bothered to take the time to read AND digest (hard i know, but still it can be done) You would of noticed that i wasn't asking for my crystals back (although that would be nice) i was doing something that CCP didn't do, ALERT OTHER PLAYERS TO THE FACT. Really are some right R*****ds around here.... As for the "damaged taken" argument, er.....isn't that a game mechanic of OVERCHARGING your weapons? Not by NORMAL use. (Caps used to emphasize) And again. You might want to think about game balance and actually read the item description before ranting like an overfed teenager denied his second cheeseburger. http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/EN/ammunitioncharges/frequencycrystals/factioncrystals/extralarge/21252.asp Blood Gamma XL Extra Large Frequency Crystal. Can be used only by starbase defense batteries and capital ships like dreadnoughts. Modulates the beam of a laser weapon into the gamma frequencies. Greatly reduced range. Greatly increased thermal damage. Structure massmass 1 kg volumevolume 1 m3 packaged Miscellaneous Damagedamage 0 EM damageem damage 61.6 explosive damageexplosive damage 0 Kinetic damagekinetic damage 0 Thermal damagethermal damage 35.2 Range bonusrange bonus 37.5 Charge sizecharge size XLarge Used with (launchergroup)used with (launchergroup) Energy Weapon Capacitor Need Bonuscapacitor need bonus -15 Tech Leveltech level 1 Volatilityvolatility 1 Volatility Damagevolatility damage 0.00025 Crystals Damagecrystals damage 1 base pricebaseprice ISK 4,000,000.00 CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Gold Rogers Solitude Empires United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:40:00 - [13] No it's on the crystal for example. Tech I MF = crystals damage 0 Tech I link Faction Amarr MF = crystals damage 1 Faction Link It's the second to last line. ---------
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:43:00 - [14] Originally by: Malcanis And again. You might want to think about game balance and actually read the item description before ranting like an overfed teenager denied his second cheeseburger. http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/EN/ammunitioncharges/frequencycrystals/factioncrystals/extralarge/21252.asp Blood Gamma XL Extra Large Frequency Crystal. Can be used only by starbase defense batteries and capital ships like dreadnoughts. Modulates the beam of a laser weapon into the gamma frequencies. Greatly reduced range. Greatly increased thermal damage. Structure massmass 1 kg volumevolume 1 m3 packaged Miscellaneous Damagedamage 0 EM damageem damage 61.6 explosive damageexplosive damage 0 Kinetic damagekinetic damage 0 Thermal damagethermal damage 35.2 Range bonusrange bonus 37.5 Charge sizecharge size XLarge Used with (launchergroup)used with (launchergroup) Energy Weapon Capacitor Need Bonuscapacitor need bonus -15 Tech Leveltech level 1 Volatilityvolatility 1 Volatility Damagevolatility damage 0.00025 Crystals Damagecrystals damage 1 base pricebaseprice ISK 4,000,000.00 that postthatpost is veryisvery difficultdifficult to readtoread.
Ash Vincetti Decorum Inc	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:43:00 - [15] Edited by: Ash Vincetti on 21/02/2008 11:46:40 Edited by: Ash Vincetti on 21/02/2008 11:45:07 There are two sepparate attributes relating to damage when it comes to modules. With Amarr tech 2 & Faction crystals, you have "Volatility Damage", "Crystals Damage" and "Volatility", which have been there since before Heat was introduced, as seen on Amarr Navy Multifrequency L and Scorch L. Compare it with Multifrequency L, for example, where Crystals Damage is "0" - to indicate that the crystal takes no damage during normal use. This has nothing to do with the "Heat Damage" property that Modules inherited with the introduction of Thermodynamics & heat, as seen on Tachyon Beam Laser II Notice that crystals aren't affected by heat, they are affected by normal wear and tear, regardless of your guns' overheat damage. It's a different property, and one that has always existed. ----- free bree!
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:44:00 - [16] Originally by: Malcanis BLAH BLAH BLAH....teenager.....blah blah blah.... Blood Gamma XL Extra Large Frequency Crystal. Can be used only by starbase defense batteries and capital ships like dreadnoughts. [/quote yeah, nice one, is that all you can dig up, read the description your self before replying. STARBASE DEFENCE BATTERIES AND CAPITAL SHIPS I'm not using either of them I'm using a Prophecy. Also the bit you highlighted? does not explain to me, that its going to go bang! for no reason. sounds like a bunch of techno babble.......not really a good explanation. But i state AGAIN for the hard of reading, im letting people know in laymans terms.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa that postthatpost is veryisvery difficultdifficult to readtoread. Yeah well, tell it to the guys who write the clipboard code. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:46:00 - [18] Edited by: Tesl on 21/02/2008 11:46:42 Originally by: Ash Vincetti Edited by: Ash Vincetti on 21/02/2008 11:45:07 There are two sepparate attributes relating to damage when it comes to modules. With Amarr tech 2 & Faction crystals, you have "Volatility Damage" and "Crystals Damage" and "Volatility", which have been there since before Heat was introduced, as seen on Amarr Navy Multifrequency L and Scorch L. Compare it with Multifrequency L, for example, where Crystals Damage is "0" - to indicate that the crystal takes no damage during normal use. This has nothing to do with the "Heat Damage" property that Modules inherited with the introduction of Thermodynamics & heat, as seen on Tachyon Beam Laser II Notice that crystals aren't affected by heat, they are affected by normal wear and tear, regardless of your guns' overheat damage. It's a different property, and one that has always existed. Thank you for a answer that made sense. Rather than a answer to show how big your man hood is. Much appreciated
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:46:00 - [19] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Siigari Kitawa that postthatpost is veryisvery difficultdifficult to readtoread. Yeah well, tell it to the guys who write the clipboard code. :)

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:48:00 - [20] Faction crystals, as with all other faction ammo is finite. To allow faction crystals the ability to last forever would be, well, rather silly. They have a volatility damage modifier that damages the crystals giving them a finite life span. If you have a faction crystal fitted to a laser on your ship, when you hover your mouse icon over the laser turret it will detail the damage to the turret and the crystal itself. The crystal will receive damage as you use it, and the turret will receive damage as you overload it, or you enter deep hull. It will display as "Damage: 0.04" or an equivalent value, as this image shows.


Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:48:00 - [21] Originally by: Tesl Originally by: Malcanis BLAH BLAH BLAH....teenager.....blah blah blah.... Blood Gamma XL Extra Large Frequency Crystal. Can be used only by starbase defense batteries and capital ships like dreadnoughts. [/quote yeah, nice one, is that all you can dig up, read the description your self before replying. STARBASE DEFENCE BATTERIES AND CAPITAL SHIPS I'm not using either of them I'm using a Prophecy. Also the bit you highlighted? does not explain to me, that its going to go bang! for no reason. sounds like a bunch of techno babble.......not really a good explanation. But i state AGAIN for the hard of reading, im letting people know in laymans terms. sigh Well I just picked out one faction crystal at random. Why not click on the description of the crystal you were using and see if it says the same? BTW, here's another link you may find helpful. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Auron Shadowbane Pelennor Swarm	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:49:00 - [22] right, WEAPON getting dmaged is a attribute of heat and is called "heat damage". but you noob where looking at AMMO. faction crystalls getting dmage is to balance it with other faction ammo which get shot out. imo it would be cool to stop t2/factionc rystalls fromg etting damage and to balance it make them 100 times more expensive/rare toi account for that...
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:49:00 - [23] Originally by: CCP Atropos Faction crystals, as with all other faction ammo is finite. To allow faction crystals the ability to last forever would be, well, rather silly. They have a volatility damage modifier that damages the crystals giving them a finite life span. If you have a faction crystal fitted to a laser on your ship, when you hover your mouse icon over the laser turret it will detail the damage to the turret and the crystal itself. The crystal will receive damage as you use it, and the turret will receive damage as you overload it, or you enter deep hull. It will display as "Damage: 0.04" or an equivalent value, as this image shows. Can you repair the crystal like you can the ship and weapons in the repair station?

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:51:00 - [24] No.

Julio Torres Phantom Squad Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:53:00 - [25] T2 crystals lasts approx 1000 shots Faction crystals lasts approx 4000 shots I've never had a ship outlasting my faction crystals, so they have pretty much infinite use in my book
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:54:00 - [26] Originally by: Auron Shadowbane right, WEAPON getting dmaged is a attribute of heat and is called "heat damage". but you noob where looking at AMMO. faction crystals getting damage is to balance it with other faction ammo which get shot out. imo it would be cool to stop t2/factionc rystalls fromg etting damage and to balance it make them 100 times more expensive/rare toi account for that... i can understand the need to balance the game out with things like this, but when a faction crystal costs about 1500% more than what consumable ammo costs, makes it a rather tad bit more expensive when i go through a crystal faster than i can go through 500 rounds of consumable ammo.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:55:00 - [27] Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 21/02/2008 11:55:42 Originally by: CCP Atropos It will display as "Damage: 0.04" or an equivalent value, as this image shows. OH MY GOSH! FACTION PIRATE AMMO IN A VANILLA TECH 1 WEAPON!!!!!!!!!! /me dies
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:56:00 - [28] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Originally by: CCP Atropos Faction crystals, as with all other faction ammo is finite. To allow faction crystals the ability to last forever would be, well, rather silly. They have a volatility damage modifier that damages the crystals giving them a finite life span. If you have a faction crystal fitted to a laser on your ship, when you hover your mouse icon over the laser turret it will detail the damage to the turret and the crystal itself. The crystal will receive damage as you use it, and the turret will receive damage as you overload it, or you enter deep hull. It will display as "Damage: 0.04" or an equivalent value, as this image shows. OH MY GOSH! FACTION AMMO IN A VANILLA TECH 1 WEAPON!!!!!!!!!! /me dies lol i do that :P
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:56:00 - [29] Originally by: Tesl Can you repair the crystal like you can the ship and weapons in the repair station? Nope. Because it's ammunition. T2 and faction crystals don't last forever, but they do last for a bloody long time and as far as I know they cost less per shot than any other type of faction ammo. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2008.02.21 11:59:00 - [30] Edited by: CCP Atropos on 21/02/2008 11:59:50 Originally by: Tesl Originally by: Auron Shadowbane right, WEAPON getting dmaged is a attribute of heat and is called "heat damage". but you noob where looking at AMMO. faction crystals getting damage is to balance it with other faction ammo which get shot out. imo it would be cool to stop t2/factionc rystalls fromg etting damage and to balance it make them 100 times more expensive/rare toi account for that... i can understand the need to balance the game out with things like this, but when a faction crystal costs about 1500% more than what consumable ammo costs, makes it a rather tad bit more expensive when i go through a crystal faster than i can go through 500 rounds of consumable ammo. The cost is determined by standard supply/demand mechanics. In addition to that you have to consider the volume of the ammo, duration, damage types and how it applies to your activities. Edit: all tech 2 crystals are comparable. There are no differences in quality depending on who manufactured them.


MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.21 12:03:00 - [31] what is your issue with Malcanis? also it's 1500% times the cost? yeah but you get 4000 shots. that comes to about 8 million isk for large faction ammo for 8 lasers. for 4000 shots. overheating does not make them go away faster. They do a lot more damage as well. including the fact that you don't factor in reload times for the dps. also you can change your ammo type at anytime.
Ash Vincetti Decorum Inc	Posted - 2008.02.21 12:03:00 - [32] Originally by: Tesl i must had defective ammo, mine lasted me all of about 2 days... It depends on what you are using it for. For example, faction ammo (this applies to all kinds of ammo. Whether Projectile, Hybrid, Missiles, Crystals, Etc) is simply not profitable to use for Pve / Missions. The cost vs benefit vs rate of usage is too high. In PvP, however, where combats tend to be shorter with higher intensity, faction Ammo really proves it's worth. Especially compared to tech 2. Both in overall cost, as well as in lower penalties for usage / higher damage. I rarely use a full rack of Faction crystals in PvP over several engagements, exception being heavy sustained firing, at which point you trade off a bit less damage for higher ammo conservation by switching back to tech 1. ----- free bree!
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.02.21 12:06:00 - [33] Originally by: Julio Torres I've never had a ship outlasting my faction crystals, so they have pretty much infinite use in my book Yep, boost amarr. I'm sick of dragging ammo from wrecks that can't be sold because it can't be repaired and repackaged. --- Fanboi noun: 1)Person who thinks you should be happy that Eve just got a little bit worse. 2) Idiot. Fanboiz: Plural of Fanboi Doorknob: Collective noun for Fanboiz.
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.21 12:14:00 - [34] Originally by: MotherMoon what is your issue with Malcanis? I don't have a issue with people who post proper comments, but coming on and flaming for the hell of it, is rather annoying. I came here to let people know an see what people think, but as usual, you get the L337 players who just want to sturr the pot so to speak, read his first comment. then may be you would understand my response. may be i was too hasty in my posts in responce, but too me, it seemed like a flame. Too many times I've seen people come on the forum and get blasted for what i can see are very real concerns. But now its getting off topic, But I'm going to state it again. I'm not here to ask for my crystals back I'm not here to whine about it I am here to let people know before they, like me, spend money on a crystal with out knowing it goes poof due to usage. Ive had this character since 2006, been away from the game for 6months in that time, and this is the first time I've even come across this. May be its because i don't use faction crystals enough. maybe its also because in the description its just not to clear that it takes damage from being used. When one is accustomed to not losing Standard crystals, and then you find that crystals are disappearing and you don't know why? then yes I'm going to post to find out whats going on. Had i not petitioned just for information, then i still wouldn't of known. reading "Volatile damage" in a item description means absolutely nothing to me. just like reading the META data level means absolutely nothing to me. as there is a distinct lack of information regarding the terms
Phoenicia Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.21 12:17:00 - [35] Originally by: Tesl WOW, the intelligence of Eve forums shines again.. You started it.
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.21 12:18:00 - [36] Edited by: Tesl on 21/02/2008 12:20:04 Edited by: Tesl on 21/02/2008 12:19:33 Originally by: Phoenicia Originally by: Tesl WOW, the intelligence of Eve forums shines again.. You started it. oh dear....sigh
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.02.21 15:16:00 - [37] Edited by: Blane Xero on 21/02/2008 15:18:45 Originally by: Tesl Originally by: Phoenicia Originally by: Tesl WOW, the intelligence of Eve forums shines again.. You started it. oh dear....sigh Exactly what i said when i read this thread.... Each faction crystal lasts 4000 shots, for a full rack of BS turrets thats about 8mill. and you get 4k shots for EVERY laser. for the same to be said of 8 projectiles you need to be able to carry 1600m¦, and each bullet (Every single one) costs about 2.5k EACH. so, 4000x8x2500 = 8mill. So faction lasers are prefectly inlight, have the bonus of only reloading every 4k shots, and you have a TON more cargo even when you carry multiple reloads! This was using Amarr Navy Multifrequency versus Republic Fleet EMP L btw. I Am, The Anti-JoJo.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:23:00 - [38] Originally by: Blane Xero for the same to be said of 8 projectiles you need to be able to carry 1600m¦, and each bullet (Every single one) costs about 2.5k EACH. so, 4000x8x2500 = 8mill. So faction lasers are prefectly inlight, have the bonus of only reloading every 4k shots, and you have a TON more cargo even when you carry multiple reloads! Your math is off. Large Amarr Navy Crystals are approx 1,000,000 each with about 4,000 shots, gives a per shot cost of 250 ISK, not 2,500 ISK. Large faction laser ammo is less than 2.5x the price of T1 hybrid/projectile ammo. Stop complaining already.
Taua Roqa Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:27:00 - [39] faction crystals, when loaded have an indicator on them telling your their damage, 0.02 for example, when it reaches 1 they pop, they last longer than t2 crystals (i heard 4k shots vs 1k) but yes they do break, otherwise there would never be a good reason to not use faction. and they cost far less per shot than any other faction ammo :) -------------------------------------------- [IMAGE REMOVED] Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. My I/Q Ration!!!11
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:38:00 - [40] Originally by: Tesl Originally by: MotherMoon what is your issue with Malcanis? I don't have a issue with people who post proper comments, but coming on and flaming for the hell of it, is rather annoying. I came here to let people know an see what people think, but as usual, you get the L337 players who just want to sturr the pot so to speak, read his first comment. then may be you would understand my response. may be i was too hasty in my posts in responce, but too me, it seemed like a flame. Too many times I've seen people come on the forum and get blasted for what i can see are very real concerns. But now its getting off topic, But I'm going to state it again. I'm not here to ask for my crystals back I'm not here to whine about it I am here to let people know before they, like me, spend money on a crystal with out knowing it goes poof due to usage. Ive had this character since 2006, been away from the game for 6months in that time, and this is the first time I've even come across this. May be its because i don't use faction crystals enough. maybe its also because in the description its just not to clear that it takes damage from being used. When one is accustomed to not losing Standard crystals, and then you find that crystals are disappearing and you don't know why? then yes I'm going to post to find out whats going on. Had i not petitioned just for information, then i still wouldn't of known. reading "Volatile damage" in a item description means absolutely nothing to me. just like reading the META data level means absolutely nothing to me. as there is a distinct lack of information regarding the terms Since your crystal evaporated, I would have thought that an attribute called "volatility" should have been the first thing to catch your eye. It's not like faction ammo having limited use is a big secret or anything, and you could have found out with a simple query in local if doing a comparison between a T1, a T2 and a faction crystal's item description was beyond you. Instead of asking what the situation was or investigating yourself, you made a long whine-post, that was factually incorrect, blaming everyone but yourself for your own lack of understanding. Your subsequent posts have in no way persuaded me that I took the wrong tone with you. I didn't say what I did because you didn't know something, but because you posted an ill-informed abusive rant rather than trying to learn. So your post got the response it deserved. PS: I was as polite to you as you were polite to CCP. Pot, meet kettle... CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

Terianna Eri Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:46:00 - [41] Stupid question - I understand why we can't repair crystals in station (because it would then be possible to have infinite ammo at no cost, if whoever owns the station sets repair costs to 0), but what if we could use nanite repair paste (which does have a fixed cost associated with it) to repair damaged crystals (faction and t2)? The amount of paste you would need to repair .01 crystal damage could be balanced so that it was, on average, slightly more expensive to use the nanites compared to buying new crystals, but it would have the advantage of, well, not having to go back and buy new crystals and just repairing them? Additionally this would finally make it possible for crystals to be repaired and resold, which has always bothered me. __________________________________
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.21 17:24:00 - [42] Edited by: Tesl on 21/02/2008 17:26:37 Edited by: Tesl on 21/02/2008 17:25:18 Originally by: Malcanis ......say something??...... wow you really are a complete nob! you have totally missed the point in what i was saying, you totally missed the point that it was letting others know about it. YOU totally missed the point that i wasn't even "whining" about it, What does someone have to do to drill it into your thick head that I DIDNT CARE ABOUT LOSING THE GOD DAMN CRYSTAL. I was pointing out that there was a distinct lack of description. "VOLITILE DAMAGE" does not say "USAGE DAMAGE" which is a much better team an completely understandable. Volatile damage. when something is Volatile its unstable, but it says nothing to what its relevant too. It could be Volatile damage to the targeted ship, until someone else pointed out, you just went off on a total troll out and thought i was complaining at CCP to give me another one. Please go to spec-savers or something and get your eyes tested, and while your there, crawl back under the bridge you came from. Your comments were neither constructive or welcome in this thread Just because you know something about Eve i do not, does not give you the right to flame me when i let OTHERS know. You were just as much in the dark at some point as i was. But then allot of people forget that don't they. Can i ask a Dev to close this, before i say something i shouldn't.
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP	Posted - 2008.02.21 17:29:00 - [43] Ive always wanted to slap the dev who decided to 'fix' faction laser crystals would work like ammo. They arent supposed to run out ffs, at least not as fast as other factions ammo does. Whats the whole point of being amarr if when you go to use faction weapons you are stuck with an ammo limit just like every other race. Cookie-cutter faction ammo = bad. Weapons Linking
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.21 17:35:00 - [44] Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/02/2008 17:37:34 Originally by: Tesl Originally by: MotherMoon what is your issue with Malcanis? I don't have a issue with people who post proper comments, but coming on and flaming for the hell of it, is rather annoying. I came here to let people know an see what people think, but as usual, you get the L337 players who just want to sturr the pot so to speak, read his first comment. then may be you would understand my response. may be i was too hasty in my posts in responce, but too me, it seemed like a flame. Too many times I've seen people come on the forum and get blasted for what i can see are very real concerns. But now its getting off topic, But I'm going to state it again. I'm not here to ask for my crystals back I'm not here to whine about it I am here to let people know before they, like me, spend money on a crystal with out knowing it goes poof due to usage. Ive had this character since 2006, been away from the game for 6months in that time, and this is the first time I've even come across this. May be its because i don't use faction crystals enough. maybe its also because in the description its just not to clear that it takes damage from being used. When one is accustomed to not losing Standard crystals, and then you find that crystals are disappearing and you don't know why? then yes I'm going to post to find out whats going on. Had i not petitioned just for information, then i still wouldn't of known. reading "Volatile damage" in a item description means absolutely nothing to me. just like reading the META data level means absolutely nothing to me. as there is a distinct lack of information regarding the terms I never said you were asking for your stuff back. hey hey chill, were all playing the same game. EDIT: when did Malcanis say you were whining about losing them? all he said was it was common knowlegde and you could of found out by asking around or searching or using the help channel. the second you said, "hahaha people that play eve are dumb" you lost any respect you had. you can't counter even a light flame with a total insult to everyone in the thread, don't you get that?
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2008.02.21 17:37:00 - [45] Originally by: CCP Atropos Edited by: CCP Atropos on 21/02/2008 11:59:50 Originally by: Tesl Originally by: Auron Shadowbane right, WEAPON getting dmaged is a attribute of heat and is called "heat damage". but you noob where looking at AMMO. faction crystals getting damage is to balance it with other faction ammo which get shot out. imo it would be cool to stop t2/factionc rystalls fromg etting damage and to balance it make them 100 times more expensive/rare toi account for that... i can understand the need to balance the game out with things like this, but when a faction crystal costs about 1500% more than what consumable ammo costs, makes it a rather tad bit more expensive when i go through a crystal faster than i can go through 500 rounds of consumable ammo. The cost is determined by standard supply/demand mechanics. In addition to that you have to consider the volume of the ammo, duration, damage types and how it applies to your activities. Edit: all tech 2 crystals are comparable. There are no differences in quality depending on who manufactured them. Can crystals be fixed so you can contract them? Currently a band new unused ship with unsued faction crystals fitted can never ever be contracted or remotely repackaged. Originally by: CCP kieron ISK buying is a major contributor to the inflation in EVE's economy.
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.21 17:55:00 - [46] Originally by: MotherMoon the second you said, "hahaha people that play eve are dumb" you lost any respect you had. you can't counter even a light flame with a total insult to everyone in the thread, don't you get that? Are you even reading the right thread?
Zarch AlDain The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2008.02.21 18:03:00 - [47] Tesl has a point - it would be a big improvement if the description (as in the words, not buried in the stats) of the crystal clearly said that faction crystals took damage over time and eventually went poof. Zarch AlDain
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.21 18:11:00 - [48] Originally by: Zarch AlDain Tesl has a point - it would be a big improvement if the description (as in the words, not buried in the stats) of the crystal clearly said that faction crystals took damage over time and eventually went poof. There are so many huge gaps and ambiguities in the documentation that I have long since come to the conclusion that it's deliberate policy. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.21 18:11:00 - [49] Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/02/2008 18:11:40 Originally by: Tesl Originally by: MotherMoon the second you said, "hahaha people that play eve are dumb" you lost any respect you had. you can't counter even a light flame with a total insult to everyone in the thread, don't you get that? Are you even reading the right thread? "WOW, the intelligence of Eve forums shines again.." who does this target? hmmm? I agree with you pointing it out more clearly would be great. but your smacking someone with a bat when all they did was show thier ego. not to mention it sounds like you saying the forums, not jsut one guy.
Tesl	Posted - 2008.02.21 18:23:00 - [50] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/02/2008 18:11:40 Originally by: Tesl Originally by: MotherMoon the second you said, "hahaha people that play eve are dumb" you lost any respect you had. you can't counter even a light flame with a total insult to everyone in the thread, don't you get that? Are you even reading the right thread? "WOW, the intelligence of Eve forums shines again.." who does this target? hmmm? I agree with you pointing it out more clearly would be great. but your smacking someone with a bat when all they did was show thier ego. not to mention it sounds like you saying the forums, not jsut one guy. yes referring to the flames that spring from no where, but if you carefully take notice, it does not say "hahaha people that play eve are dumb" as you put it.

ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.23 22:06:00 - [51] Originally by: CCP Atropos Faction crystals, as with all other faction ammo is finite. To allow faction crystals the ability to last forever would be, well, rather silly. They have a volatility damage modifier that damages the crystals giving them a finite life span. If you have a faction crystal fitted to a laser on your ship, when you hover your mouse icon over the laser turret it will detail the damage to the turret and the crystal itself. The crystal will receive damage as you use it, and the turret will receive damage as you overload it, or you enter deep hull. It will display as "Damage: 0.04" or an equivalent value, as this image shows. Ok but another problem is that the Amarr faction ammo has 4000shots per crystal. When you buy faction ammo it costs the same amount to get 4000shots out of a crystal's, or you can get 5000shots off any other ammo. So the way i see it crystals should get more shots 5000+, or they should be cheaper to put them in line with the other faction ammo. Linking\|Kb Host
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.23 22:59:00 - [52] Originally by: ghosttr Originally by: CCP Atropos Faction crystals, as with all other faction ammo is finite. To allow faction crystals the ability to last forever would be, well, rather silly. They have a volatility damage modifier that damages the crystals giving them a finite life span. If you have a faction crystal fitted to a laser on your ship, when you hover your mouse icon over the laser turret it will detail the damage to the turret and the crystal itself. The crystal will receive damage as you use it, and the turret will receive damage as you overload it, or you enter deep hull. It will display as "Damage: 0.04" or an equivalent value, as this image shows. Ok but another problem is that the Amarr faction ammo has 4000shots per crystal. When you buy faction ammo it costs the same amount to get 4000shots out of a crystal's, or you can get 5000shots off any other ammo. So the way i see it crystals should get more shots 5000+, or they should be cheaper to put them in line with the other faction ammo. In compensation youc an easily carry 100 thousand shots in your cargo hold. Good luck carring 10 k for other ammos. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.24 01:03:00 - [53] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: ghosttr Originally by: CCP Atropos Faction crystals, as with all other faction ammo is finite. To allow faction crystals the ability to last forever would be, well, rather silly. They have a volatility damage modifier that damages the crystals giving them a finite life span. If you have a faction crystal fitted to a laser on your ship, when you hover your mouse icon over the laser turret it will detail the damage to the turret and the crystal itself. The crystal will receive damage as you use it, and the turret will receive damage as you overload it, or you enter deep hull. It will display as "Damage: 0.04" or an equivalent value, as this image shows. Ok but another problem is that the Amarr faction ammo has 4000shots per crystal. When you buy faction ammo it costs the same amount to get 4000shots out of a crystal's, or you can get 5000shots off any other ammo. So the way i see it crystals should get more shots 5000+, or they should be cheaper to put them in line with the other faction ammo. In compensation youc an easily carry 100 thousand shots in your cargo hold. Good luck carring 10 k for other ammos. But you can split your ammo into different turrets/launchers. My 4000shots can only go into 1 laser turret. I should at least get the same amount of shots for the same price. Linking\|Kb Host
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.02.24 01:14:00 - [54] Originally by: Malcanis Yeah I bought some faction missiles the other day and now they're all gone too. Faction ammo = Totally bugged. Yup, had the same happen to me the other day too. Thought I was the only one Vote Dynamic Tax!
Yllse	Posted - 2008.02.24 01:19:00 - [55] Originally by: Auron Shadowbane imo it would be cool to stop t2/factionc rystalls fromg etting damage and to balance it make them 100 times more expensive/rare toi account for that... I would gladly pay 8,400 isk for an eternal cruise missile.
Richard Phallus	Posted - 2008.02.24 01:22:00 - [56] Edited by: Richard Phallus on 24/02/2008 01:22:38 -- For heresy against CCP by posting images of the sacrificial goat Zulupark you are banished for two weeks - Wrangler
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.24 01:42:00 - [57] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Malcanis Yeah I bought some faction missiles the other day and now they're all gone too. Faction ammo = Totally bugged. Yup, had the same happen to me the other day too. Thought I was the only one Amarr are the race that aren't supposed to have a finite source of ammunition (I think its supposed to be a benefit for them sucking so much) I understand making the faction ammunition finite just so that it doent become dirt cheap and common. Linking\|Kb Host
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.02.24 03:18:00 - [58] Edited by: Matalino on 24/02/2008 03:19:22 Originally by: ghosttr I should at least get the same amount of shots for the same price. Current Jita prices for large faction ammo: Laser = 250 ISK per shot Hybrid = 1,200 - 1,300 ISK per shot Projectiles = 1,000 - 1,200 ISK per shot Missiles = 1,700 - 1,800 ISK per shot Torps = 2,200 - 2,800 ISK per shot Faction laser ammo's price per shot is closer in price to T1 ammo (~2.5x) than to other faction ammo (+4.0x). If you really think that faction laser ammo should "get the same amount of shots for the same price" then it should be shortened to 1,000 shots per crystal instead of 4,000. Originally by: ghosttr Amarr are the race that aren't supposed to have a finite source of ammunition Just carry a back up set of regular crystals in your cargo hold an you shouldn't have too much trouble when they run out. Originally by: ghosttr I understand making the faction ammunition finite just so that it doent become dirt cheap and common. This is exactly why faction and T2 crystals break overtime. The other option would be to increase their rarity/LP store costs such that they are on par with faction modules. Personally I am quite happy to keep them cheap but have them expire after using them for a while.
Cid Gurung	Posted - 2008.02.24 07:06:00 - [59] just so you know, until you have the skills to overcharge your modules, you wont be overcharging them... I mean its a well known fact that crystals get consumed... even faction ones. I don't get why your getting upset over all this.


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