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Is it authorized to use G-key-like softwares to bind F1-F2-... ?

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Phice Anxu Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.22 02:02:00 - [1] Hi, We all know that the Logitech G15 keyboard and his G-keys are authorized in Eve Online, and used for many reasons (Skill monitoring, F1-F2-F3 in one key...). However, it is not an obligation to have this keyboard to benefit of the same advantages (EveMon, Tsdisp, etc...). But about G-keys, is it allowed by CCP to use a software, or a driver, who permit to bind F1-F2-... on a unique key ? F1-F2-... are annoying in a long term, but I don't want invest 62€ in a keyboard just to be able to spare some keystrokes Cordialy, Phice Anxu
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.02.22 02:59:00 - [2] I don't see how that would be a problem.
Blind Man1 Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.02.22 03:02:00 - [3] i would die without my g15, imagine being in vent not knowing whos talking or not being able to see the songs im clicking through on winamp
Helen Hunts Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc Red Dragon Industries	Posted - 2008.02.22 03:11:00 - [4] Simple key-bindings with a G15 keyboard or similar is fine. Automation of any process involving multiple steps or auto-repeating actions gets you a ban-hammer. Push button & all guns fire - Perfectly fine Push button & ship undocks, warps to belt, mines 'roids, docks.... - Banhammer Keep it simple, immediate effect actions and you'll be fine. _______________________________ Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money. Any Questions?
Dhip C Minmatubbies	Posted - 2008.02.22 03:51:00 - [5] Originally by: Helen Hunts Simple key-bindings with a G15 keyboard or similar is fine. Automation of any process involving multiple steps or auto-repeating actions gets you a ban-hammer. Push button & all guns fire - Perfectly fine Push button & ship undocks, warps to belt, mines 'roids, docks.... - Banhammer Keep it simple, immediate effect actions and you'll be fine. So basically what your saying is thats it okay to automate one process (f1, f2, f3...) but its not okay to do several? Isnt hitting f1, f2, f3 sevral processes, macro pvp is ok but macro ratting isnt? Personally, I think people just have a problem with macro mining in general.
here'n'there	Posted - 2008.02.22 04:06:00 - [6] ok, if we're discussing such serious things.. will a robot playing eve be banned?
Arkedon Caldari Pegasus Knights	Posted - 2008.02.22 04:10:00 - [7] Originally by: here'n'there ok, if we're discussing such serious things.. will a robot playing eve be banned? Oh I hope not. I just spent a boatload of money buying a new T3000 patterned after Jessica Alba to play my third alt. My old T2000 patterned after Eva Mendez got a bit used up after all the looting/salvaging.
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2008.02.22 04:15:00 - [8] Broadly speaking: 1) If it reads data back from the client in any way, it is not permitted. 2) If it performs actions over the course of a non-trivial period of time, it is not permitted. 3) If it automates an action to a speed that could not be reasonably achieved by a human, it is not permitted. Otherwise, it is (probably) permitted. At least, that's how I understand it. That allows quick macros like F1-F8 (I can probably hit those keys nearly as fast as the G15 does), but disallows things like 0-isk escrow-camping bots, market-trading bots, or mining bots. MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
Retsil Evad Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.02.22 04:26:00 - [9] Yes, it is OK. I use one myself. Howevfer I have an issue where it will not send the ALT or CTRL keys for firing up mid and low slot items, which is a pain in the proverbial. ============== Office use ONLY ============== BRING BACK EVE TV!!!!!!!
Valeo Galaem New Eden Advanced Reconnaissance Unit	Posted - 2008.02.22 05:46:00 - [10] My rule of thumb, if it involves timings or loops, its right out. I still stick with my plain ol' keyboard. Thar be Pirates You are not authorised to hack into CONCORD's mainframe Your Wallet has been emptied! CONCORD Encryption Methods

Kyra Felann Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2008.02.22 06:34:00 - [11] Originally by: Dhip C So basically what your saying is thats it okay to automate one process (f1, f2, f3...) but its not okay to do several? Isnt hitting f1, f2, f3 sevral processes, macro pvp is ok but macro ratting isnt? Personally, I think people just have a problem with macro mining in general. You seriously don't see the difference between one button activating multiple buttons and macro mining? Instead of using four fingers to push four buttons you can use one. OMG HAX!
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.22 06:45:00 - [12] Even if this was a problem, there's no way to detect it. Go nuts~
Brutoth Tain Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.02.22 06:55:00 - [13] The GMs have said the G15 and other similar devices are fine, If your at the keyboard and still operating your ship its all good if your using it to do anything afk that's not permitted in the EULA. I don't use a G15 but I use a Nostromo keypad and use the array key mapping to do stuff like fire all weapons or to change the default key presses or use cap boosters or to fire rep cycle on a single key press instead of having to press multiple keys for the mids and lows, if all your using it for is key remapping or turning multiple key presses into single keys the GMs have posted its ok in topics about this before. I guess there are other things you do like you could do other stuff like set a key press for cloak+MWD so its timing is bang on but that might be pushing it a little. ---------------------------------------------- Piebears <3 Risk Vs Reward.......You take the risk they take the reward.
Bishman82 Racketeers	Posted - 2008.02.22 08:35:00 - [14] Edited by: Bishman82 on 22/02/2008 08:35:37 Originally by: Dhip C So basically what your saying is thats it okay to automate one process (f1, f2, f3...) but its not okay to do several? Isnt hitting f1, f2, f3 sevral processes, macro pvp is ok but macro ratting isnt? Personally, I think people just have a problem with macro mining in general. If you can get the g15 to warp between belts, lock the rats and fire, then move to the next belt then congratulations!
CrayC Gallente CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.22 08:54:00 - [15] Since nobody else have answered the OPs direct question... NO, SOFTWARE/DRIVER-related macros are NOT ALLOWED!!! If it NOT related to your hardware, like G-series, Nostromo etc, you may NOT use it!!!
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.02.22 09:12:00 - [16] Originally by: CrayC Since nobody else have answered the OPs direct question... NO, SOFTWARE/DRIVER-related macros are NOT ALLOWED!!! If it NOT related to your hardware, like G-series, Nostromo etc, you may NOT use it!!! Is that claim based on official answer or is it opinion ? It is not intended as personal attack I'm just wondering bcos my F1 .. F8 keys are under a lot of stress so I have been thinking about possibility of binding them with 3rd party program to one of my mouse keys (mouse drivers allow me to map only one key or keycombination to button, but are not able to take in whole set of F keys).
Plave Okice Gallente Red. Red Republic	Posted - 2008.02.22 09:13:00 - [17] Originally by: Arkedon My old T2000 patterned after Eva Mendez got a bit used up after all the looting/salvaging. Yeah right, probably too much probing caused the problem. Red CEORed Vs Blue
CrayC Gallente CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.22 09:27:00 - [18] Originally by: Carniflex Originally by: CrayC Since nobody else have answered the OPs direct question... NO, SOFTWARE/DRIVER-related macros are NOT ALLOWED!!! If it NOT related to your hardware, like G-series, Nostromo etc, you may NOT use it!!! Is that claim based on official answer or is it opinion ? Official. This subject has been raised several times and in one of them, CCP stressed that no software-only macro¦s was allowed. Only those built into G15 etc...
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2008.02.22 11:28:00 - [19] pressing multiple buttons at once = ok. Complex timed sequences that may take place over several minutes and don't require you to be at the keyboard = banned.
Vito Parabellum Fivrelde Corp	Posted - 2008.02.22 14:41:00 - [20] Originally by: CrayC Originally by: Carniflex Originally by: CrayC Since nobody else have answered the OPs direct question... NO, SOFTWARE/DRIVER-related macros are NOT ALLOWED!!! If it NOT related to your hardware, like G-series, Nostromo etc, you may NOT use it!!! Is that claim based on official answer or is it opinion ? Official. This subject has been raised several times and in one of them, CCP stressed that no software-only macro¦s was allowed. Only those built into G15 etc... Link? FYI the G15 uses a software macro (logitech G-Series keyboard profiler). ------ When you say "no one's perfect", Chuck Norris takes this as a personal insult.

Mickey Simon Esoteric Industries	Posted - 2008.02.22 14:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Vito Parabellum Link? FYI the G15 uses a software macro (logitech G-Series keyboard profiler). I'm under the impression my Razer Lycosa uses a similar software based keyboard macro system. I was thinking about this just the other day. Given it just sends the keypresses to the computer based on macros, I'm guessing that as above it's fine for when you're actually at the keyboard [eg F1-F8] but if you somehow manage to get it to automate itself that would be "not-on". I can't really see a problem with doing stuff like hitting a key to target the selected ship and F1-F8 it. There's no real speed advantage, just a laziness advantage.
Vasili vonHolst Minmatar Gargamel's Lair	Posted - 2008.02.22 15:12:00 - [22] If i can teach a chimp or dolphin to mine in high sec is that a EULA problem? Is it considered a macro, sharing an account perhaps? If i take a picture of a players roomate logged into his account and playing , will the account holder be banned? ------------------------------------------------ Movie + Trillion ISK In damage inflicted on the Care Bear community.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.02.22 15:26:00 - [23] Originally by: Retsil Evad Yes, it is OK. I use one myself. Howevfer I have an issue where it will not send the ALT or CTRL keys for firing up mid and low slot items, which is a pain in the proverbial. Try adding a 0.25 second delay between the ctrl down event and your first F-key, and another 0.25 second delay between the last F-key and the ctrl up event. There's probably some sort of race condition with the key presses, meaning the F-keys get sent through before the ctrl presses. Adding the slight delays results in everything arriving in the right order. As for whether it's an exploit or not, no-one on the forum can give you a definitive answer unless they have blue or red bars around their post. If you're unsure about something, petition the GM's, who will be able to give you a definitive answer. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Brutoth Tain Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.02.22 17:22:00 - [24] I manged to find out a GM post about G15s on EVE search. Linkage So as long as your at the keyboard and actually interacting with your PC by pressing keys etc its fine to use gaming keyboard software. ---------------------------------------------- Piebears <3 Risk Vs Reward.......You take the risk they take the reward.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.02.22 17:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Brutoth Tain I manged to find out a GM post about G15s on EVE search. Linkage Nice find, though for double-check, I'll post the link to it on the actual forums, rather than on eve-search: Linkage ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.02.23 08:23:00 - [26] Originally by: Matthew Originally by: Brutoth Tain I manged to find out a GM post about G15s on EVE search. Linkage Nice find, though for double-check, I'll post the link to it on the actual forums, rather than on eve-search: Linkage Well I read that GM reply so that it is ok to bind F1 .. F8 keys to my mouse button, as I will be sitting at my keyboard. Or just to F1 or whatever. As long as I use simple stuff to only send information and not to read (ie interact) then I'm ok. As arbitary limit oh say something like stuff I can do in less than 5 seconds when doing it conventional way.
Riho Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.02.23 09:11:00 - [27] Originally by: Dhip C Originally by: Helen Hunts Simple key-bindings with a G15 keyboard or similar is fine. Automation of any process involving multiple steps or auto-repeating actions gets you a ban-hammer. Push button & all guns fire - Perfectly fine Push button & ship undocks, warps to belt, mines 'roids, docks.... - Banhammer Keep it simple, immediate effect actions and you'll be fine. So basically what your saying is thats it okay to automate one process (f1, f2, f3...) but its not okay to do several? Isnt hitting f1, f2, f3 sevral processes, macro pvp is ok but macro ratting isnt? Personally, I think people just have a problem with macro mining in general. you still NEED to push a button to actiavte all guns.. they dont do it automatically. want your guns to stop firing.. u need to push the putton again. its the same as pushing the keys yourself very fast. macro miner just pushes one button and it mines, hauls and does everything. i have a G15 allso but i hardly use the G-key options in eve. and yes.. G15 is legal.. unles you hack some other macro program to it to do some freaky stuff thats not alowed. ---------------------------------- This is Me
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.02.23 11:12:00 - [28] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 23/02/2008 11:12:26 I am searching for a software that permit to bind F1 -> F8 to one button, anybody knows one ? Second, I don't understand why CCP didn't make a "Fire all guns" shortcut. It would have been very welcomed and ppl would not have to buy a 100Ç keyboard for this. 2isk
Slickdrac Minmatar Replicatorz Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.23 11:47:00 - [29] So, how about this mining tool I have? I have it set so that I just press a button, and it clicks the first spot in my cargo where ore should be, and drags it to the jetcan cargo tab. then it clicks the next spot, whether there is ore or not, and drops it, it does it 4 times, (1 for each laser, and one for the drones, there could be up to four ores I'm mining) It does repeat this every three minutes, but it does not lock a new target, it does not activate lasers, it does not autohaul, THE ONLY THING IT DOES IS MOVE ORE from the cargo to the can. I have to launch the can myself, lock the roids, haul the can, move the ship, make the drones do things. I think if this isn't allowed, yet a one button for your modules setup is allowed, that someone has been smacked with the stupid stick. fake edit: actually, I could probably make more auto tasks for the targeting and lasering, but that would be trickier for making sure it always selected the right things, for example clicking the closest object and mining it, and that being my hauler alt, or the can itself depending on if I'm making a pickup or whatnot.
Doonoo Boonoo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.23 12:00:00 - [30] Edited by: Doonoo Boonoo on 23/02/2008 12:00:56 This programme is pretty nice: http://www.autohotkey.com/ I fail at linking.



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