EVE Search - On why is the Amarrian form of slavery seen as inherently evil

All Channels

Intergalactic Summit

On why is the Amarrian form of slavery seen as inherently evil

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
GulletSplitter Minmatar Maasai Tribal Products Independent Faction	Posted - 2008.02.25 15:47:00 - [1] Originally by: Rodj Blake Is slavery evil? Is it evil when a loving parent chastises their offspring for anti-social behaviour, controls their diet or makes them go to school? A loving parent no? A complete stranger from a culture with different values dropping in out of the blue...with no warning....who uses physical and chemical coercion in an attempt to completely eradicate an entire cultureàwho constantly tells the "child" of it's worthlessness...
GulletSplitter Minmatar Maasai Tribal Products Independent Faction	Posted - 2008.02.25 15:56:00 - [2] Originally by: Rathera D'Sarth Existing slaves, those born to it, know nothing else, are content, and look to their Holders for guidance and betterment. If this was true then I would still be a slave. I was born into slavery and was anything but content. Namely because my "Holder" had no interest in my well-being or my salvation. I was just a financial tool for him. The very act of "looking" at my Holder was good for nothing but a boot in the face at best. I'll grant you that my particular Holder was not one of the better ones. But you are casting a generalization across a spectrum of people and a lifestyle (as a slave) that you may or may not have experienced. Not all Amarr are bad. Just like not all Minmatar want to be free...the difference is that the Amarr are given a choice on their actions while the slaves are not.
GulletSplitter Minmatar Maasai Tribal Products Independent Faction	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:18:00 - [3] I am to a degree working under the "all bad" assumption Rodj. Some of that is definitely from my past. I do know of "good" Amarr owners in the sense that they really do care about their slaves. It seems a large portion of the Amarr tar the Minmatar as unworthy/inferior/barbaric because Minmatar are not Amarr. It is just as hard not to tar all Amarr as "evil" when it is a race/culture that has given us the joys of slaver hounds and vitoc. As for parentage....the Amarr weren't the parents of the Minmatar. So it's not an apt comparison. If we were then the Amarr have been spawning a, in their terms, "inferior" race. You might try a "benevolent teacher" propaganda line instead. ;)
GulletSplitter Minmatar Maasai Tribal Products Independent Faction	Posted - 2008.02.25 18:29:00 - [4] I believe there are quite a few of us who question if we should have ever been in the nest to begin with. The arbitrary nature of the assault, the lack of peaceful contact beforehand (at least as far as I know), and the tools used in the conversion practice are what I question. I don't have issues with any religion wishing to spread it's teachings in a peaceful manner. My major issue with the Amarr religion is the use of force to do it. It speaks poorly for the abilities and true proposed superiority of the Amarr that they have to sink to the use of physical violence and drug addiction in order to convert people to their ôwayö. And the latter doesnÆt even touch the fact that the use of slaves as a crutch to keep an economy afloat in the ômodernö age. DonÆt get me wrong in that I think that the Amarr are the only ones at fault. From Gallente wage slavery to Caldari enforced corporate directives to the fractious politics of the Republic, each ônationö has a bevy of problems to deal with. The only thing I have asked for repeatedly over and over from the Amarr is a legalized ôSlave Bill of Rightsö to be enacted Empire-wide. No more individual Holders choosing their own course and setting their own capricious ôpathö to salvation. It should be codified. To do otherwise is just inviting the continuation of this clash of cultures.
GulletSplitter Minmatar Maasai Tribal Products Independent Faction	Posted - 2008.02.28 18:55:00 - [5] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri Slaves are, by default, condemned prisoners. We are paying them by allowing these criminals to live out their lives and produce families. In time, these bloodlines of spared criminals move from their lowly class and become freedmen. They can even aspire to the hieghts of our culture, as the Tash-Murkon are proof of. Gaven...you just basically gave us the "why is slavery evil" in your own statement. A just born child is condemed as a prisoner just for being born to a set of parents that they didn't get to choose? A child who has done nothing....can't talk...can't walk...can't commit acts of sin against some god... I expect you now to say they have to "pay for the sins of their forebearers". If that's the case who's paying for the sins committed by some of the "bad" Amarr owners? Are their offspring going to become "condemned priosners" at birth?
GulletSplitter Minmatar Maasai Tribal Products Independent Faction	Posted - 2008.02.28 21:04:00 - [6] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri Let it lie, learn to accept that our culture is not yours, and let there be peace in our time. Oh snap...and I didn't even catch this line. You know...we should let it lie cause we have the Amarr as sterling examples of acceptance of other peoples cultures. Just ask the Uddrians....er....the Ealurians...er...the Jov....er....the Minmata....er... Yeah....let's work on acceptance of other peoples cultures...might be key to our future relations. I'm picking on Gaven to much. Normally I like his answers but this particular post left it way to open to pick up on the "bad" viewpoints/points about the Amarr religion. It's just going to make us all watch what we post more carefully. (OOC: Dunno on the Stockholm thing....maybe Uddrian Syndrome? Tough one since we lack a lot of history.)
GulletSplitter Minmatar Maasai Tribal Products Independent Faction	Posted - 2008.02.28 21:10:00 - [7] Originally by: Amira Silvermist Originally by: GulletSplitter I expect you now to say they have to "pay for the sins of their forebearers". If that's the case who's paying for the sins committed by some of the "bad" Amarr owners? Are their offspring going to become "condemned priosners" at birth? That is the concept of original sin yes... Taking responsibility for actions of your forefathers is one of the cornerstones of our society. So given this cornerstone...how many Amarr have been "condemned" or put back into a slavery state because their great grandfathers did something really bad? Are someone like saaaaaay Revan's kids game as future slaves cause she's viewed by some of the Amarr as practicing apostasy? The team that invented Vitoc or guys who train slaver hounds....are they and their offspring fair game for slave raids? Or are only the "inferior" races held to this standard?
GulletSplitter Minmatar Maasai Tribal Products Independent Faction	Posted - 2008.02.28 22:16:00 - [8] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri You say that we cannot hold people accountable for their ancestors actions, and then call the modern Amarrian people warmongers for actions that date centuries in the past. You do see the problem in that, right? Absolutely I do see the issue in this...and I would not have posted it had it the Amarr Empire truly changed from it's actions of past centuries. The Amarr are still in the process of converting/assimilating/destroying part pf the Minmatar culture and in relatively recent years made an attempt at the Jove. I still see slave gangs in Republic space...None of these are symbols of "acceptance" of another culture. And yes I expect a reply from someone in the Amarr block about "Minmatar Terrorists attacking Amarr space therefore not accepting our culture", yet I feel that (totally biased here as an ex-slave) that somehow...the Minmatar are the more aggrieved party at this point. Last time I checked the Republic wasnÆt holding millions of slaves through physical, mental, religious and cultural coercion. And donÆt think IÆm happy about the Gallente using financial/cultural coercion on the ôwage slavesö. The thread was about the nature of Amarrian slavery. And to be perfectly honest I'm not sure if the majority of the modern Amarrian people are warmongers are not. The slave owners that I have mostly had to deal with on a personal level have not been good. And it does appear that a vocal contingent of their paramilitary and pod pilots are more for war. The last Emperor seemed to be less inclined to war but I have a small reference to base that opinion upon. I donÆt view you as a ôbad Amarr" Gaven, I think you just made a bad argument in your post. I know IÆm prone to some misundertood posts myself. I enjoy the debates nonetheless. All this being said....we can probably talk to we're blue in the face...but nothing is going to change in the status quo until there is a new Emperor. Even then things may or may not change at all.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.