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Miko Lee Care Bear Exterminaters	Posted - 2008.02.24 17:24:00 - [1] I read somewhere that a few of BoB corps are communists. I am curious about how this works. I understand the underlying principle of communism in the real world but wondered how it worked in EvE. I mean if I joined a communist corp in EvE, would I have to hand over all my stuff into a common pot. I presume all tax is 100% with trading, mining and other ops for the greater good of all. I can see advantages and disadvantages but since I never been in a communist corp I am sure there must be situation unique to there members. Please enlighten me. How many famous corps are communists
Miko Lee Care Bear Exterminaters	Posted - 2008.02.24 17:24:00 - [2] I read somewhere that a few of BoB corps are communists. I am curious about how this works. I understand the underlying principle of communism in the real world but wondered how it worked in EvE. I mean if I joined a communist corp in EvE, would I have to hand over all my stuff into a common pot. I presume all tax is 100% with trading, mining and other ops for the greater good of all. I can see advantages and disadvantages but since I never been in a communist corp I am sure there must be situation unique to there members. Please enlighten me. How many famous corps are communists
Kirex Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.24 17:32:00 - [3] Red Alliance.
Peter Stormare Caldari Film Actors Guild	Posted - 2008.02.24 17:40:00 - [4] Northern Intelligence
HEY LISTEN i swear this is true	Posted - 2008.02.24 17:44:00 - [5] Originally by: Miko Lee I read somewhere that a few of BoB corps are communists. I am curious about how this works. I understand the underlying principle of communism in the real world but wondered how it worked in EvE. I mean if I joined a communist corp in EvE, would I have to hand over all my stuff into a common pot. I presume all tax is 100% with trading, mining and other ops for the greater good of all. I can see advantages and disadvantages but since I never been in a communist corp I am sure there must be situation unique to there members. Please enlighten me. How many famous corps are communists Most communist alliances in eve like RA do it so the leaders can se.. erm make isk. Marakor for godhood
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.02.24 17:48:00 - [6] I think if you are a serious about 0.0 then the only way to run a corp is through communism. Sharing your profits and sharing your losses. If you cannot trust your members that they work for the best interest of the corp and their goal, you have no place amongst the top corps. If you always suspect that your corp members only want to leech good stuff, then you can't be really amongst the best corps. Mind you, I don't say that inviting members to run their own business is bad. But I think it just doesn't work if you want to be at the top in a pvp group.
Miko Lee Care Bear Exterminaters	Posted - 2008.02.24 18:16:00 - [7] Edited by: Miko Lee on 24/02/2008 18:17:49 What happens when a new members joins or leaves a communist corp. Does he have to hide all his stuff and leave with nothing, or does his belongings get noted and is returned if he leaves. Also why do some of you think communism system is better than the conventional system. The conventional system I am used to is where all members fend for themselves and the corp makes isk either via a tax system, membership fees, or isk making ops. Some corp have a reimbursement system to keep members in ships during war/ops. I can see one advantage of communism during war, i.e. you donÆt loose your own ship so more likely to participate on ops.
Duke Grail Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.24 18:56:00 - [8] Originally by: Miko Lee Edited by: Miko Lee on 24/02/2008 18:17:49 What happens when a new members joins or leaves a communist corp. Does he have to hide all his stuff and leave with nothing, or does his belongings get noted and is returned if he leaves. Also why do some of you think communism system is better than the conventional system. The conventional system I am used to is where all members fend for themselves and the corp makes isk either via a tax system, membership fees, or isk making ops. Some corp have a reimbursement system to keep members in ships during war/ops. I can see one advantage of communism during war, i.e. you donÆt loose your own ship so more likely to participate on ops. I believe it is more of a situation that when you join said communist corp, you join for life. Anything you gave to corp, is the corps. If you decide to leave, you are not entitled to anything you gave to the corp, however you may recieve a parting gift if it is under good terms. I honestly don't think it works well on the internet, the trust that's involved is more than i would trust anyone i don't know personally. I have no signature... it keeps getting nerfed by the mods for no good reason :(
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.02.24 19:00:00 - [9] Originally by: Miko Lee I read somewhere that a few of BoB corps are communists. I am curious about how this works. I understand the underlying principle of communism in the real world but wondered how it worked in EvE. I mean if I joined a communist corp in EvE, would I have to hand over all my stuff into a common pot. I presume all tax is 100% with trading, mining and other ops for the greater good of all. I can see advantages and disadvantages but since I never been in a communist corp I am sure there must be situation unique to there members. Please enlighten me. How many famous corps are communists The idea is all members are paying all their income to the corporation, who again shares these resources to its members on need basis. A drawback with this is if the corp have a members who are not up to peer with the rest of the corp these will have a larger payout because of their losses and such be a larger "burden" then the rest. So its important that the people in the corp are all balanced when it comes to skill and ability as far as I know. At least when it comes to corporations like Evolution in BoB. Another great thing about 100% tax is, the corp can buy larger and special ships easier then one single person. So a Titan will be easier achieveable then without this 100%. There are bonuses and drawbacks with it. If there are someone in the corp who turns rogue, they can also get away with lots of the corp treasury and as such rob its memebers pretty badly. Its a good way running a corp, but by dam.. it requires a very solid leadership and loyal members! Originally by: CCP Whisper I got your ambulation right here... <walks off to get more wine>
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.02.24 19:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Duke Grail Originally by: Miko Lee Edited by: Miko Lee on 24/02/2008 18:17:49 [...] I honestly don't think it works well on the internet, the trust that's involved is more than i would trust anyone i don't know personally. I think it works pretty well for Evolution in BoB, from what I have heard. It would be cool to hear from anyone in Evolution - or any other large communist corp - how they find it. Originally by: CCP Whisper I got your ambulation right here... <walks off to get more wine>
Sanka Cofie Amarr Vena Sera Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.24 19:40:00 - [11] Signs indicate the OP is not being serious. Kudos to you who have not picked up on this. ~-~-~-~-~ -[WillChat4ISK]- I can be the handsome Amarr space captain. You can be the helpless Minmatar slave girl.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.24 19:49:00 - [12] Its worth pointing out that ALL good 0.0 corps work on that basis to a lesser extent. That is to say, all members are expected to contribute for the "greater good", and should expect the corp to provide nice things to them in return. Be it in the form of physical taxes or fees, mandatory ops, or active participation in certain things, you're always required to contribute. There are practically no corporations in 0.0 that will just let you sit there and do your own thing for your own profit 100% of the time- and if there are, they certainly wouldn't be able to provide you with any nice things (discounted building jobs, outposts, POS networks, jump bridges, whatever) in return. I suppose the logical alternative is a "fully" capitalist corp. That is to say, a corp that sets up and runs lots of nice things for it's members, but expects them to pay in full for the services (fees for jump bridge access, massive outpost docking/refining fees, etc). Would be interested to know how many (if any) corps are pulling that off successfully. ------ Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.
kublai Art of War	Posted - 2008.02.24 19:52:00 - [13] Edited by: kublai on 24/02/2008 19:53:29 A corp doesn't need to be 100% communist, Art of War has a 10% tax (not that anyone rats or whatever but), you do what you want with your loot and there are no mandatory ops. Despite this members donate billions upon billions of isk and items to the corps industrial section. BPO's and other industrial assets arent given, but loaned to the corporation, myself I am lending the corporation several billion isk worth of bpo's, should I leave this will be returned to me, but for now any profit gained from them belongs to the corp. Basically, communism can only work corporations where the members are close knit and can trust each other, it also takes a lot of wealth and a stringet recruitment policy to avoid leechers. We donate what we don't need, what we don't need is then turned into things that are needed by all at some point. This is a system which gives a large amount of the communist benefits with non of the disadvantages, there is no pressure to donate what so ever. Personally, I think these systems are reserved for a rather special breed of corporations, Evolution is most definately among the corporations in eve have that has pulled this off the best, but to think that evolution members don't have personal wealth as a result of their communism, would be foolish, they simply don't have much need for it is all. ------ Art of War is recruiting - Think you got what it takes? Buying sig - eve-mail "Jonny 101"
Soyemia Minmatar Art of War	Posted - 2008.02.24 19:58:00 - [14] Originally by: kublai Edited by: kublai on 24/02/2008 19:53:29 A corp doesn't need to be 100% communist, Art of War has a 10% tax (not that anyone rats or whatever but), you do what you want with your loot and there are no mandatory ops. Despite this members donate billions upon billions of isk and items to the corps industrial section. BPO's and other industrial assets arent given, but loaned to the corporation, myself I am lending the corporation several billion isk worth of bpo's, should I leave this will be returned to me, but for now any profit gained from them belongs to the corp. Basically, communism can only work corporations where the members are close knit and can trust each other, it also takes a lot of wealth and a stringet recruitment policy to avoid leechers. We donate what we don't need, what we don't need is then turned into things that are needed by all at some point. This is a system which gives a large amount of the communist benefits with non of the disadvantages, there is no pressure to donate what so ever. Personally, I think these systems are reserved for a rather special breed of corporations, Evolution is most definately among the corporations in eve have that has pulled this off the best, but to think that evolution members don't have personal wealth as a result of their communism, would be foolish, they simply don't have much need for it is all. In AWAR we have free BSs
Hymerus The Andromeda Directorate	Posted - 2008.02.24 20:06:00 - [15] Originally by: 'Miko Lee' I mean if I joined a communist corp in EvE, would I have to hand over all my stuff into a common pot. I presume all tax is 100% with trading, mining and other ops for the greater good of all. Is GM "communist"? Ford? Microsoft? They produce a product. They have a labour force. They trade goods and services between business divisions without cost, or at least with fixed costs. That doesn't make them communist. That's the first thing people need to get through their thick skulls. The next thing is, too many of you living out there in 0.0 space are in Corporations and Alliances that abuse you and your labour. You rat or mine and make some isk. You get taxed at like 10% to 25% on your refines, then you're taxed again by the corp. Chances are your corp is poor, or close to it, because your CEO is taking a few bucks here and there or at least buying things "for the good of the corp" that he wants. Most of your Alliance leaders are off running POSes and doing reactions and stuff without telling you, bringing in billions of isk. You never see it. You never hear about it. And you never ask. POSes are just strange pulsatings things at moons. RKK, and most communist corps, are set-up in such a way that the labour expended doing something like running a POS, collecting the minerals, running reactions, and building components for sale goes to the corp instead of getting routed straight into the CEOs or Alliance leader's pocket. Yes, I know, not every alliance is run by corrupt mofos, but most of you are in alliances run by people who are taking all that isk from moon mining and putting it into their own pockets instead of using it to buy stuff that you can use to play with, either making it dirty cheap or free. Do that for a few years, and you too can be a stupidly rich corporation, just like RKK. RKK aren't communist. They're just an actual corporation rather than a collection of independent businessmen who pay for access to space and participate in collective defense.
DrSeuss Gallente Phoenix Propulsion Labs Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2008.02.24 20:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Duke Grail I believe it is more of a situation that when you join said communist corp, you join for life. Anything you gave to corp, is the corps. If you decide to leave, you are not entitled to anything you gave to the corp, however you may recieve a parting gift if it is under good terms. The only way it works is through trust. Find a Communistic corp that has been around for awhile and has the same goals you do. If you are after 'personal gain or glory', then this is not for you. Corp is Mother . Everyone knows the only true wisdom is on T-Shirts
funky mrD Caldari G.R.U.N.T	Posted - 2008.02.25 07:14:00 - [17] also a overlooked fact, communist corps makea good place for eastern european hairy women to live their lives pretending to be men
Lowanaera Amarr Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.25 07:47:00 - [18] Originally by: Patch86 I suppose the logical alternative is a "fully" capitalist corp. That is to say, a corp that sets up and runs lots of nice things for it's members, but expects them to pay in full for the services (fees for jump bridge access, massive outpost docking/refining fees, etc). Would be interested to know how many (if any) corps are pulling that off successfully. A capitalistic corp doesn't necessarily mean it charges members for services, rather it may mean that members are paid for performing services rather than being expected to contribute. For example, paying people to manage corp POS reactions, paying people to haul, buying minerals/ice from miners at Jita or better prices, etc. The end result is the same: the corp wallet grows, the corp is able to provide services to its members, but at the same time contribution is incentive-based rather than being "all for the greater good, comrade". Now, which method is more efficient is highly dependent on the individual corp. Can you motivate your members enough without tangible payment to get them to give their all, or does offering direct returns encourage greater participation and therefore greater corporate profit despite the costs? At least in my opinion, this capitalistic way (which is the way CJ operates) is a bit better in most cases as it makes members feel more valued in their contributions.
RogerWilco Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.25 08:16:00 - [19] Edited by: RogerWilco on 25/02/2008 08:17:21 I never played eve to collect isk, if i wanted to collect stuff i probably played wow or some other hoarder game, i play to get a social experience, and make new friends. Evolution are about goals, setting new standards, moving the bar - not collecting isk, they are a evil that are needed to achieve some goals thats all. Evolution 4 life baby..
Proxay Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2008.02.25 08:51:00 - [20] Originally by: Hymerus RKK aren't communist. They're just an actual corporation rather than a collection of independent businessmen who pay for access to space and participate in collective defense. They have made their money through Dian's shuttle schemes, communism was a side dish compared to the money pulled in through that. <3 1,000,000 isk shuttles. If you're going to remove a signature, at least make sure it's got something that breaks the EULA, k-ta.
flexd Blue.	Posted - 2008.02.25 09:37:00 - [21] Red is Communists! Red must die!
Siddy Minmatar Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.25 10:00:00 - [22] it work this way: You give you stuff to corp and then you shut up and do what the ol' man say. workking good so far
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.25 10:25:00 - [23] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 25/02/2008 10:25:09 Originally by: Hymerus blah blah blah You sir are an idiot. Try running a large corp before randomly commenting. -----
Miko Lee Care Bear Exterminaters	Posted - 2008.02.25 12:27:00 - [24] I can see that attraction of a communist corp and I think trust is the key to its success. Many people have billions sitting in there wallets doing nothing. If all that isk was pooled together into a corp wallet so that they could concentrate on pvp, nice. Even making isk together as a corp must be more fun that soloing lvl4 mission for personal gain. Doing stuff together is what an MMORPG is all about. I appreciate that the word "communism" seems bad due to the cold war between the US and USSR, but China did not do too badly under communism. But I donÆt think I am trusting enough at the moment to hand over all my billions of isk to a communist corp simply because, my human nature is to distrust people and be greedy, even though it might be for the best for all.
kublai Art of War	Posted - 2008.02.25 12:37:00 - [25] Originally by: Miko Lee I can see that attraction of a communist corp and I think trust is the key to its success. Many people have billions sitting in there wallets doing nothing. If all that isk was pooled together into a corp wallet so that they could concentrate on pvp, nice. Even making isk together as a corp must be more fun that soloing lvl4 mission for personal gain. Doing stuff together is what an MMORPG is all about. I appreciate that the word "communism" seems bad due to the cold war between the US and USSR, but China did not do too badly under communism. But I donÆt think I am trusting enough at the moment to hand over all my billions of isk to a communist corp simply because, my human nature is to distrust people and be greedy, even though it might be for the best for all. China is a capitalist nation which uses economic slavery to create a income from production and export. Basicly, the world still relies on slave labour and capitalism, there is -no- communist success story, every great nation in this earth dabbles in capitalism and slavery, though these days we export the products of slave labour rather than the slaves themselves. This applies to my social-democratic nation of Norway just like your nations. PS. I have nothing against slavery, it's how the world always has worked and will keep working until we solve the over population issue and make some major boosts in production technology, so no bleeding heart emo **** eh? ------ Art of War is recruiting - Think you got what it takes? Buying sig - eve-mail "Jonny 101"
Spoon Thumb Caldari Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.25 13:36:00 - [26] One way is to have little or no tax etc, but to sometimes just voluntarily work for corp rather than one's self. Then CEO and directors can choose to volunatarily give stuff back to members. Kinda similar to communistic system but with a more informal contract between corp and members about what they are expected to give and might be reasonable to recieve Khaldari khanidpublic: RP channel for Kingdom loyalists Recruiting
RichThugster Gallente Invicta.	Posted - 2008.02.25 14:23:00 - [27] I was in a communist corp, back end of 2004. However we were only about 10-15 active players, based in a very rich part of space. It was good, although i often skimped on things because i didnt want to take too much of the pot (i had put little in, and not long joined) It worked well tho for quite a while. From my perspective there was one guy who was arguably the best ceptor pilot in the game in our corp. He was simply amazing in a malediction, but after time he decided he wanted to fly a tempest (which he failed epicly in, and lost like 4 in one week) This annoyed me a little as he seemed to be taking an unfair preportion to gorge his urge to fly a tempest, when he was so awesome at something else. This is always the problem with a communist run scheeme, in theory its the best thing since sliced bread, much the same as a communist gov't, great in theory, always crap in practice as someone skims more than they need, or someone else puts more effort in than someone else. If we were all emotionless it would own, however in a game where people have different reasons for playing, and different play amounts and skills, it makes it very hard to run something which is supposed to be totally fair, fairly. Thats often the big problem with it, whether there is or not, someone will see inequality
Hymerus The Andromeda Directorate	Posted - 2008.02.26 15:20:00 - [28] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 25/02/2008 10:25:09 Originally by: Hymerus blah blah blah You sir are an idiot. Try running a large corp before randomly commenting. That, sir, was an awesome counter argument. Srsly, the way you dismantled my argument is truly impressive. You, and folks like you, are what made this forum what it is.

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