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Robert0288 Caldari g guild Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.02.25 08:46:00 - [31] Originally by: Rawr Cristina EVE PvE needs to be a LOT more unpredictable, imo, and NPCs need to not be stupid and actually try to act as if they're not mindless drones unpredicatablity makes carebears cry, as they might loose their billion isk mods when they shoot the wrong ship and bring down the entire mission on their heads
Vitelius Decorum Inc	Posted - 2008.02.25 10:46:00 - [32] Originally by: Robert0288 Originally by: Rawr Cristina EVE PvE needs to be a LOT more unpredictable, imo, and NPCs need to not be stupid and actually try to act as if they're not mindless drones unpredicatablity makes carebears cry, as they might loose their billion isk mods when they shoot the wrong ship and bring down the entire mission on their heads My thoughts exactly. They already cry in a chorus because apparently some people salvage their wrecks in their missions (never happened to me) or because they can get ganked in "safe" high sec. Making NPC aggro unpredictable or intelligent would just make them cry more... As far as I'm concerned, missions are just for grinding isk & standing to get moar isk & standing. When I want to play this game I go blow up player ships (or get blown up by them...) ---
Mr Reeth Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.02.25 11:06:00 - [33] I want a mission difficulty sliderà more risk more rewards. Perhaps the most difficult missions would drop faction loot. I want to be able to choose the type of missionà no more courier missions if I donÆt want them. I want to be able to choose what enemy I fightà no more guristas. Guristas are murder for young Amarrians and I found them more common than blood raider and Sansha missions combined at lvls 1-3. And I can get some Republic tags for faction gear. I want variety in ratting spawns. LetÆs see some freedom fighter spawns or have EoM suddenly show up. I want to not jump at all for missions. It just seems a bit odd that an agent in one system has jurisdiction over another. I want every system to have at least 5 agents, one for each level plus a storyline agent. I want to get storyline missions from the corp IÆm working for only. I want the low sec threat to be removed from the COSMOS missions. I know this sounds really carebear but these missions are one time only and it would suck so hard to lose the mission to a ganker. Kill me later. I donÆt care. Just let me finish the damn mission!
Rexthor Hammerfists Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.25 11:08:00 - [34] It would be nice if in missions plexes or belts the rats would changed from the current masses to a few, which have random pvp fittings - maybe even warp out ;) id love that and might even get me to grind missions again one day. Ah and we need way more different exploration sites, 3 of each kind gets boring so damn fast. -
Zaerlorth Maelkor	Posted - 2008.02.25 11:21:00 - [35] There are lots of options for missions in EVE that isn't implemented. Why aren't there any probing missions? Tackling missions? protection missions? Giving these options would be an easy way of adding a bit of variety. ================================================== I should really get a sig.
Sul Condbax Open Season	Posted - 2008.02.25 11:43:00 - [36] The fact that there are people who play EVE primarily for the pve aspect boggles the mind.
Mr Reeth Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.02.25 12:03:00 - [37] Originally by: Sul Condbax The fact that there are people who play EVE primarily for the pve aspect boggles the mind. I think there are pretty few people who are only NPCing but its a pretty good way to make isk. And if it's in the game at all shouldn't it be fun?
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.02.25 12:04:00 - [38] Originally by: Sul Condbax The fact that there are people who play EVE primarily for the pve aspect boggles the mind. As long as you understand that EVE's current success and user count is thanks to these people (and CCPs coddling of them) then everything will be alright.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Karjala Inc. Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.02.25 12:05:00 - [39] EVE NPC'ing is like in every other mmo except that it's not medieval fantasy. Mob after mob, stupid npc's. etc.
Navtiqes Mute Troop	Posted - 2008.02.25 12:46:00 - [40] I don't claim to know much of anything, but I think the whole idea with Eve is that it's supposed to be populated by players and not NPCs, which is why NPCs already play such a small part and are unlikely to be expanded on.
Xanos Blackpaw Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.02.25 12:47:00 - [41] i dont realy care if the missions are repetative....i actuly think thats a good thing because that make them predictable. and that make it easier for me to make isk for the fun stuff. like shooting other players Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi".
Brumin Rush Minmatar	Posted - 2008.02.25 13:06:00 - [42] Originally by: Sul Condbax The fact that there are people who play EVE primarily for the pve aspect boggles the mind. Why? PvP although a big part of EvE is really just 1/10 th of the game. Manufaturing, Mining, research, trade, courier on and on. This is truely a brilliant game. It;s the best MMO because it offers so much diversity and so much to do. You;re not pigon holed in doing just 1 thing ie grind dungons and gold.
Larno Gallente Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.02.25 13:10:00 - [43] Originally by: Kyra Felann As CCP has said, this is a PvP game. NPCs give you something to do when corp mates aren't on, or you feel like killing time without expending much effort. Note that PvP doesn't necessarily mean combat. There are many forms of PvP, such as trading and even mining can be competitive. Did you read the latest economic report thing? CCP said that something like 70% of players stay in high-sec. ---------- "Whining gets you stuff, that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.25 13:15:00 - [44] Originally by: Buchatar Why is there always a link between WoW and EVE, they are completly different games each with there own high points and low points. One thing I've noticed about both games, for myself anyway. (played WoW for yonks, now an EVE'er.) 1)In WoW you can be solitary... in WoW you can pretty much go solo and have no communication with anyone and still be able to experience 80 - 90% of the game (instances with groups make the last section.) However, In EVE you need to be in a community no matter how big or small, you can't go at it alone for very long at all before the game turns into death itself. 2)WoW is more PvE with some PvP elements (not many, just the battleground stuff), while EVE is a PvP game with some PvE elements (missioning). Yeah you can say that one game could learn from the other, but why? They are both different games in there own right. becuase in wow you can't solo anything important. in eve you can, you can solo level 5 missions with the right gear. not that it's pro***ble but you can. then again the guy above you has a good point, in WoW you die A LOT, so I guess if you died a lot people would be **ed. like if a logtisics pilot actually got shot at while doing a mission god forbid.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.25 13:19:00 - [45] Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn EVE NPC'ing is like in every other mmo except that it's not medieval fantasy. Mob after mob, stupid npc's. etc. you've never played another mmo have you? sure ratting is the same, go to belt kill go to next. but deadspace? complexes? have you ever play another mmorpg? yo have rooms, each roomtakes a different aproach, the healers have to be protected, sometimes there is a button or a goal that will end the room, some enemies need to be hit with fire (EXP) or wind attacks! (kin) or whatever damage type, so you need different types of casters. and most of all having less than 5 people is suicide.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.02.25 13:30:00 - [46] Originally by: Vitelius Originally by: Robert0288 Originally by: Rawr Cristina EVE PvE needs to be a LOT more unpredictable, imo, and NPCs need to not be stupid and actually try to act as if they're not mindless drones unpredicatablity makes carebears cry, as they might loose their billion isk mods when they shoot the wrong ship and bring down the entire mission on their heads My thoughts exactly. They already cry in a chorus because apparently some people salvage their wrecks in their missions (never happened to me) or because they can get ganked in "safe" high sec. Making NPC aggro unpredictable or intelligent would just make them cry more... As far as I'm concerned, missions are just for grinding isk & standing to get moar isk & standing. When I want to play this game I go blow up player ships (or get blown up by them...) so why do missions HAVE to be a boring, riskless grind for ISK? having to put a little effort into it would go a LONG way. ATM it's not much more interesting than Mining, only with much less risk from can flippers / loot stealers. I can solo all the hardest level 4 missions (even Enemies Abound 5/5) in a lowly Drake. IMO that's quite broken.
Exelon Bei The Scope	Posted - 2008.02.25 13:43:00 - [47] Edited by: Exelon Bei on 25/02/2008 13:43:07 ------------ I HATE scrambling npcs!
Tai K'ho	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:30:00 - [48] Allow me to be part of the whole damn thing. Make missioning complete campaigns we subscribe to which can bring world changing results to the galaxy. I want intricate and dynamic developments, not fortune cookie rolls, every single last one of them being worthy of an actual movie! Just that. For now. --Sphit Ker. Trapped in a Trial Account. Send Help!
ChironV Caldari VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:36:00 - [49] Simple. Hire some players to be "Rats". When the Eve system sees someone who has been Ratting the same spawns for 2 hours. These players are substituted for the NPC rats. That should add to the excitement both for the hired pirates and ratters when all of a sudden they are facing real people in pirate ships. Lets face it, skilled players are much tougher than predictable NPC ships. ________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:39:00 - [50] Edited by: Alz Shado on 25/02/2008 16:39:10 How to make missions and NPC fights more enjoyable.
Lord Zoran Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2008.02.25 17:10:00 - [51] exploration can be very interesting.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2008.02.25 17:39:00 - [52] Edited by: Kyra Felann on 25/02/2008 17:39:13 Originally by: Brumin Rush Why? PvP although a big part of EvE is really just 1/10 th of the game. Manufaturing, Mining, research, trade, courier on and on. No, it's mainly about PvP, but the other things you mentioned are PvP. They are competitive activities between players. Not all PvP is combat. The only real PvE in Eve is content associated with NPCs--missions and the like. Pretty much the whole rest of the game is about competition between players.
UGWidowmaker Caldari Setenta Corp INVICTUS.	Posted - 2008.02.25 17:44:00 - [53] eve agents SUCKS... theres no real story, no plot no nothing... i tried so many time to do agents, but end up quitting every time... OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
Zun Szu Amarr CounterMand Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.02.25 18:26:00 - [54] Now come on people... we know what he is talking about so why would everybody automatically say "WoW? Who gives a $%#@ about WoW?" It may not have been worded right but you surely got the idea. Go ahead and search the word "boring" in the top right search field and see what comes up. Stuff about npc play back from 2003 is what comes up. When I ran missions I wanted to gouge my eyes out on how boring it really was. Every now and then you might get a fun mission but it is all forgotten with the billion other filler missions that reward you with something that is like a slap in the face. Then I started to see missions were repeating themselves over and over. The entire mission running system needs such an overhaul it isn't even funny. Why even have low quality level agents? Why on earth would you ever want to start a mission with lower quality agents? The entire npc system feels like I'm taking a walk on a beach of broken bottles of lemon juice and hot suace... freakin' painful. Instead of tweaking the ships they need to take a look at this boring system. And instead of flaming the sorry saps that actually go through this painful mission system why not see it for what it really is and make a voice about it so the game can get better instead of feeding the PvP only tweaks that took place for so long. And for the love of all mighty above... can somebody at CCP get us a better flippin' search engine already? Why on earth am I always finding forum posts 6 years old that don't even remotely relate to this game anymore? As Napoleon Dynamite would say... "It's a piece of crap it doesn't work! Gosh!" ------------------------------ Poncho: You're bleeding, man. Blain: I ain't got time to bleed. [Poncho shoots a bunch of grenades up to the top of the cliff] Poncho: You got time to duck?
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.02.25 18:34:00 - [55] As a game designed around PvE, I would say wow has much better PvE content. But PvE isn't something I've ever heard billed as one of eve's strengths, it supposed to be a PvP game and as such has way more PvP content than wow. I saw early on that the PvE side of eve is pretty borring and PvP is what eve's know for. So it seems me, if you're looking for a great PvE game, eve probably isn't the game for you... just what this nub things anyway.
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2008.02.25 18:44:00 - [56] EVE PVE has one big disadvantage over WoW PVE: the lack of visuals. In WoW, most people raid to get the loot, sure, but also to see that giant dragon or the fire bird or that oversized fish, etc. In EVE, because of the distances involved, and because of the peculiar way in which camera zoom depends on ship size, your enemies are dots or crosses. Now, other space games have also had this problem, and most of them have tried to solve it by forcing combat into the point-blank range and forcing players into small ships, so that the big NPC ships would appear... big. EVE isn't going to do that. Otherwise, they can certainly improve the PVE by improving the AI and the scenarios, and as far as I can see, they've been doing this as much as possible ever since the game was released. They can see as well as we can that 80% of the players are in Empire and seem interested in PvE, and they aren't going to ignore that aspect of the game.
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.02.25 19:25:00 - [57] 1) Make PVE more like PVP. Fewer ships, but better fit. Make NPCs abide by player rules (no infinite capacitor bull****), and improve the AI. Make the fight more unpredictable, although the overall difficulty should remain the same. 2) Make it more group oriented. Everything, including PVE, is much more fun in a fleet. I'm not completely sure how to do this without simply handing extra money over to people with alts... How about when you take a mission while in a fleet, you can take it "solo" (kind of like it is now), or the "Fleet" version of the mission (Difficulty and reward depend on # of people in the group).
Manfred Rickenbocker	Posted - 2008.02.25 19:44:00 - [58] Edited by: Manfred Rickenbocker on 25/02/2008 19:44:27 Originally by: Zun Szu ... The entire mission running system needs such an overhaul it isn't even funny. Why even have low quality level agents? Why on earth would you ever want to start a mission with lower quality agents? ... Originally by: Letouk Mernel EVE PVE has one big disadvantage over WoW PVE: the lack of visuals. In WoW, most people raid to get the loot, sure, but also to see that giant dragon or the fire bird or that oversized fish, etc. In EVE, because of the distances involved, and because of the peculiar way in which camera zoom depends on ship size, your enemies are dots or crosses. Now, other space games have also had this problem, and most of them have tried to solve it by forcing combat into the point-blank range and forcing players into small ships, so that the big NPC ships would appear... big. EVE isn't going to do that. Otherwise, they can certainly improve the PVE by improving the AI and the scenarios, and as far as I can see, they've been doing this as much as possible ever since the game was released. They can see as well as we can that 80% of the players are in Empire and seem interested in PvE, and they aren't going to ignore that aspect of the game. /Signed for both, edited the first one for harsh words. The LP store was the greatest mission overhaul that Ive seen, and it was completely necessary unlike getting random offers for stuff that was completely useless. If they can do a mission offers 'store' in a similar fashion, that'd be great too. Have it stocked with around 5 or so offers for missions and have it refresh every 4 hours (same as rejection cool-down) to prevent mission spamming and it getting filled with useless stuff. Agents probably need an overhaul too. Scatter them around the universe in a more useful fashion, give a more realistic meaning to "quality", mission "store" can offer missions of different levels, changing the need for agent levels or removing them. This will also help break up mission hubs, and you gain standing with a corp to get better "quality" agents, not better "level" agents, and can start doing Lv 4 agents right from the start for a corp, even if the rewards will be terrible due to a low quality agent. Storyline agents probably needs to revert to the old old method: agent you are taking missions from offers the storyline, not some random agent from another corp in the same faction (and no crappy storyline couriers). Just make the storyline appear in the mission market like a regular one. Visuals should be updated too, but thats a long process. They already stated that they are working on updating to Trinity graphics for the clutter. Only thing I can say to that is there should be MORE clutter in mission spaces. Make them unique by randomizing placements, orientations, and probabilities of spawning objects. That'll help keep the experience fresh. Even searching for the cool dragon gets boring to look at sometimes without a little variety. (seen rogue drone BSes? neatest looking ships in Eve. Kudos to CCP~) ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.02.25 20:08:00 - [59] Edited by: Wet Ferret on 25/02/2008 20:10:12 Edited by: Wet Ferret on 25/02/2008 20:08:55 Originally by: Zun Szu Now come on people... we know what he is talking about so why would everybody automatically say "WoW? Who gives a $%#@ about WoW?" It may not have been worded right but you surely got the idea. Go ahead and search the word "boring" in the top right search field and see what comes up. Stuff about npc play back from 2003 is what comes up. When I ran missions I wanted to gouge my eyes out on how boring it really was. Every now and then you might get a fun mission but it is all forgotten with the billion other filler missions that reward you with something that is like a slap in the face. Then I started to see missions were repeating themselves over and over. The entire mission running system needs such an overhaul it isn't even funny. Why even have low quality level agents? Why on earth would you ever want to start a mission with lower quality agents? The entire npc system feels like I'm taking a walk on a beach of broken bottles of lemon juice and hot suace... freakin' painful. Instead of tweaking the ships they need to take a look at this boring system. And instead of flaming the sorry saps that actually go through this painful mission system why not see it for what it really is and make a voice about it so the game can get better instead of feeding the PvP only tweaks that took place for so long. If you think it's so boring, you just don't understand it. Mission running isn't about finding compelling combat, it's a game of efficiency, to see how fast you clear missions while still being able to tank all of the damage. Most missions are easy once you have decent skills, but with only "decent" skills you are going to complete them slowly. It's working exactly how it should. This is why people who think being that able to complete level 4s in their 250 DPS Drakes is "broken" are ignorant. A properly fit Assault Frigate, given enough time, can probably complete them too. The fact that it is not a "fun" activity isn't really important. You don't see miners and traders getting thrills of of their professions, either... in fact I'd say about the only profession in this game that is the slightest bit exciting is piracy (imagine that). Quote: EVE PVE has one big disadvantage over WoW PVE: the lack of visuals. In WoW, most people raid to get the loot, sure, but also to see that giant dragon or the fire bird or that oversized fish, etc. In EVE, because of the distances involved, and because of the peculiar way in which camera zoom depends on ship size, your enemies are dots or crosses. Now, other space games have also had this problem, and most of them have tried to solve it by forcing combat into the point-blank range and forcing players into small ships, so that the big NPC ships would appear... big. EVE isn't going to do that. Otherwise, they can certainly improve the PVE by improving the AI and the scenarios, and as far as I can see, they've been doing this as much as possible ever since the game was released. They can see as well as we can that 80% of the players are in Empire and seem interested in PvE, and they aren't going to ignore that aspect of the game. That's a good point, too. I always stay zoomed in on whatever I'm shooting.. it just makes NPC'ing that much more interesting. The whole visual problem can be solved one simple way. Having a virtual "monitor" (a new, small window) that shows a close-up of whatever you have targeted. I'm sure you've seen this in many other games. This would eliminate the need to have the camera zoomed out to lower the sound effects volume too (well, rather, it would at least allow you to see a closeup without having your eardrums blasted out).
Zephyr Rengate Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2008.02.25 20:17:00 - [60] EvE NPCing is fine as it is. When you say NPCing i guess you mean killing rats via missions not ratting (which is fine as it is) To get things straight in WoW every quest involves you killing x amount of mobs, getting x amounts of items or talking to x guy. The only difference is you have a different backstory to each quest plus a slightly different enviroment but it remains basicly the same till lvl 70 (funfun)its still just the same old grind whateva lvl. Same applies to EvE but i dont think the devs bothered to waste time writting a whole lot of crap about some dumb orcs ****ing people off for each quest. In EvE the focus is cleary on PvP with a some what lesser grind. Though WoW does have raiding EvE has epic PvP fleet engagements ( f off lag whiners).

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