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Covetor vs Hulk

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Rankin DePuy	Posted - 2008.02.25 10:48:00 - [1] Probably an old saw, but I think it still has a few teeth left, so here goes. Flame as you will. There is a huge inequity in the requirements for the Covetor vs it's T-2 counterpart, the Hulk. Currently you train forever to get to the Covetor ( a good 2 months ) yet once completed, in less than a day, you can be driving a Hulk. Seems to me the T-2 model should be alot harder to get. I propose the following: Hulk - keep the requirements as they are, Mining Barge lvl 5, Astrogeology lvl 5, Exhumers lvl 3. Covetor - reduce requirements to Mining Barge lvl 4 and Astrogeology lvl 4. This gives a miner a chance to mine with a Covetor for awhile and get the ISK to buy a Hulk when he can afford it and when he has the skill set to drive it. That's all I got to say - back to the Salt mine....so to speak.
Myadra Amarr Cruoris Seraphim	Posted - 2008.02.25 12:17:00 - [2] Edited by: Myadra on 25/02/2008 12:17:39 I agree, the covetor should need barge 4 & astrology 5, which will still take some good time skilling for it. only elite counterparts should require barge 5 BoB - Grey Skies
Rankin DePuy	Posted - 2008.02.25 21:30:00 - [3] I dunno of any ship that requires such a high degree of skill and it's T-2 variant such an easy transition. Definite game imbalance on that one. Hopefully, someone will read this and at least respond.
Verys The Black Ops Black Core Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.25 23:07:00 - [4] I think this is a real game inbalance why would one fly a covetor if they could also almost directly fly the hulk. Yes the price tag is a good one but far from that they differ too much. Set it to mining barge lvl 4 and make barge lvl 5 a neccesary skill for the exhumers. Moon Colonisation
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.	Posted - 2008.02.25 23:56:00 - [5] Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 25/02/2008 23:56:26 In the grand olde days of yore when hulks could not be invented, they sold for 600 mill a pop. That was the real gulf which has since filled up with invented Hulk BPCs. Btw, signed. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Chruker	Posted - 2008.02.26 02:47:00 - [6] super duber signed ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.02.26 06:18:00 - [7] I agree as well though one should also take note of the number of skills and ISK required to make a Hulk worthwhile to use. Granted its inital boost over the covertor is obivously better, it can still take nearly a month to two months to properly make full use of a Hulks potental. Things like T2 strip miners, T2 mining crystals, T2 MLU's, T2 drones and so on all add to the training time one has to put into before a hulk really can shine. This is of course not to mention that a hulk is roughly 150 million these days vs a covertors 20 million so there is an ISK gap there that helps to balance the realitive ease of going from a covertor to a hulk.
Myshella Drake Caldari Eishie	Posted - 2008.02.26 06:20:00 - [8] Signed x2... for the mining alt ------------------ Proud to stand up for my Profession
Lougra Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.26 06:33:00 - [9] TBH i mostly expected to see a post like, "hey, covetor takes ore equal to a BC to build but is has 1/6 shield of it, 1/4 armor of it and the 1/4 of hull. It has pathetic cpu/power, tanking ability even in empire. Is this normal or or devs forgot the word balance?" Carebear is the surname that others gives you, if you enjoy to play eve, in other way than the rest want YOU to play it.
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.02.26 12:46:00 - [10] well the hulk isn't that much better for high sec mining. actually i think that it is the skill set for the hulk that are too low and not the other way around. I declare war on stupidity

libel brian	Posted - 2008.02.29 17:42:00 - [11] Edited by: libel brian on 29/02/2008 17:42:28 /signed I have to agree. I started training to fly a covetor, however I soon saw the hulk took only 1 more days training. I agree the T2 hulk should be harder to get than it t1 covetor. Most other T1 vs. T2 ships are far easier to train for the t1 than the t2. I think this should be looked at.
Libel Nabri	Posted - 2008.02.29 18:27:00 - [12] /signed not an alt. a wife of a miner.
Small Impact	Posted - 2008.02.29 18:28:00 - [13] /signed
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.29 18:41:00 - [14] Well, there is the advantage that flying a Covetor makes you less likely to be suicide ganked.
Rob Buie	Posted - 2008.02.29 20:00:00 - [15] Edited by: Rob Buie on 29/02/2008 20:00:51 THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN! heh not being rude just wanted to catch your attention. The point to the covetor is having 3 strip miners on it, the only benefit the hulk gives is more cargo space and 15% more yield if you train exhumers 5. I had the same concern but after realising this I know this will never happen. Going from retriever to covetor basically increases your total yield by 50% and getting in a hulk doesnt increase that by much more.
Thenoran Caldari Frontier Economics	Posted - 2008.02.29 22:20:00 - [16] Originally by: Rob Buie Edited by: Rob Buie on 29/02/2008 20:00:51 THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN! heh not being rude just wanted to catch your attention. The point to the covetor is having 3 strip miners on it, the only benefit the hulk gives is more cargo space and 15% more yield if you train exhumers 5. I had the same concern but after realising this I know this will never happen. Going from retriever to covetor basically increases your total yield by 50% and getting in a hulk doesnt increase that by much more. Hulk can tank better then a Covetor though ------------------------ Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh
Aprudena Gist Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.29 23:21:00 - [17] covetor is fully insurable and a hulk isn't if you dont want to lose piles of money fly a covtor.
Sir Digtillwedrop	Posted - 2008.03.01 04:37:00 - [18] yes
Torothanax	Posted - 2008.03.01 08:25:00 - [19] Originally by: Verys I think this is a real game inbalance why would one fly a covetor if they could also almost directly fly the hulk. Yes the price tag is a good one but far from that they differ too much. Set it to mining barge lvl 4 and make barge lvl 5 a neccesary skill for the exhumers. For a long time a hulk was 500-600 mil. T2 strip miners were 25 mil each. The skill requirement is probably still there either because they haven't bothered to revise it, or they don't want to make it easier for macro miners to get into.
Marmios	Posted - 2008.03.01 11:45:00 - [20] Yep the OP is right. The only real difference between Hulk and Covetor is money now...

Dr 0wnage	Posted - 2008.03.01 16:12:00 - [21] I think hulk should require Exhumers V tbh...
WGAnubis Marrith Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.01 23:08:00 - [22] Originally by: Rob Buie Edited by: Rob Buie on 29/02/2008 20:00:51 THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN! heh not being rude just wanted to catch your attention. The point to the covetor is having 3 strip miners on it, the only benefit the hulk gives is more cargo space and 15% more yield if you train exhumers 5. I had the same concern but after realising this I know this will never happen. Going from retriever to covetor basically increases your total yield by 50% and getting in a hulk doesnt increase that by much more. A hulk also serves as a status symbol. Quite a few people that I know who do the high sec pirate thing say they completely ignore Hulk pirates simply because they know its a vet player who wont fall for a can swap trick. Your math is "incorrect" if you will. Yes you get 15% extra from the Exhumer skill but you dont take into account the T2 MLU's you can fit. Each one increases the yeild by 9%, two increases by 18%. This adds up to a 33% increase by simply having a hulk as the ship has the CPU needed (provided you have the CPU implant) for two t2 MLU's. A hulk also has alot more cap which means you can fire off the mining beams more quickly which translates to more ore per hour coming in.
NightKhaos Gallente Khaos Wielders	Posted - 2008.03.01 23:20:00 - [23] Originally by: WGAnubis Marrith Originally by: Rob Buie Edited by: Rob Buie on 29/02/2008 20:00:51 THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN! heh not being rude just wanted to catch your attention. The point to the covetor is having 3 strip miners on it, the only benefit the hulk gives is more cargo space and 15% more yield if you train exhumers 5. I had the same concern but after realising this I know this will never happen. Going from retriever to covetor basically increases your total yield by 50% and getting in a hulk doesnt increase that by much more. A hulk also serves as a status symbol. Quite a few people that I know who do the high sec pirate thing say they completely ignore Hulk pirates simply because they know its a vet player who wont fall for a can swap trick. Your math is "incorrect" if you will. Yes you get 15% extra from the Exhumer skill but you dont take into account the T2 MLU's you can fit. Each one increases the yeild by 9%, two increases by 18%. This adds up to a 33% increase by simply having a hulk as the ship has the CPU needed (provided you have the CPU implant) for two t2 MLU's. A hulk also has alot more cap which means you can fire off the mining beams more quickly which translates to more ore per hour coming in. Quite a considerable amount of ore actually. A retriever takes just over an hour to full a jet can, a Coveter takes about 35-40 minutes, a hulk on the other hand takes 20 minutes. Reshape EVE for the future! Sell the 0.0 gates to player owned corps, and encourage an open ended universe.
WGAnubis Marrith Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.01 23:38:00 - [24] Originally by: NightKhaos Originally by: WGAnubis Marrith Originally by: Rob Buie Edited by: Rob Buie on 29/02/2008 20:00:51 THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN! heh not being rude just wanted to catch your attention. The point to the covetor is having 3 strip miners on it, the only benefit the hulk gives is more cargo space and 15% more yield if you train exhumers 5. I had the same concern but after realising this I know this will never happen. Going from retriever to covetor basically increases your total yield by 50% and getting in a hulk doesnt increase that by much more. A hulk also serves as a status symbol. Quite a few people that I know who do the high sec pirate thing say they completely ignore Hulk pirates simply because they know its a vet player who wont fall for a can swap trick. Your math is "incorrect" if you will. Yes you get 15% extra from the Exhumer skill but you dont take into account the T2 MLU's you can fit. Each one increases the yeild by 9%, two increases by 18%. This adds up to a 33% increase by simply having a hulk as the ship has the CPU needed (provided you have the CPU implant) for two t2 MLU's. A hulk also has alot more cap which means you can fire off the mining beams more quickly which translates to more ore per hour coming in. Quite a considerable amount of ore actually. A retriever takes just over an hour to full a jet can, a Coveter takes about 35-40 minutes, a hulk on the other hand takes 20 minutes. Ive done the math, 20 minutes with a properly rigged Hulk and skills (exhumer at 4, mining foreman at 5, t2 mining crystals). Potentally a hulk can fill 31,200 units of space (8 GSC's) in 15 minutes if one were to get all the mining implants and made use of t2 mining drones. The implants alone would add an additonal 20% to the total yeild (you would need another account though, otherwise its 15%). This translates to 124,800 m3 per hour as opposed to a retriever's 28,000 m3 per hour.
NightKhaos Gallente Khaos Wielders	Posted - 2008.03.01 23:42:00 - [25] Originally by: WGAnubis Marrith Originally by: NightKhaos Originally by: WGAnubis Marrith Originally by: Rob Buie Edited by: Rob Buie on 29/02/2008 20:00:51 THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN! heh not being rude just wanted to catch your attention. The point to the covetor is having 3 strip miners on it, the only benefit the hulk gives is more cargo space and 15% more yield if you train exhumers 5. I had the same concern but after realising this I know this will never happen. Going from retriever to covetor basically increases your total yield by 50% and getting in a hulk doesnt increase that by much more. A hulk also serves as a status symbol. Quite a few people that I know who do the high sec pirate thing say they completely ignore Hulk pirates simply because they know its a vet player who wont fall for a can swap trick. Your math is "incorrect" if you will. Yes you get 15% extra from the Exhumer skill but you dont take into account the T2 MLU's you can fit. Each one increases the yeild by 9%, two increases by 18%. This adds up to a 33% increase by simply having a hulk as the ship has the CPU needed (provided you have the CPU implant) for two t2 MLU's. A hulk also has alot more cap which means you can fire off the mining beams more quickly which translates to more ore per hour coming in. Quite a considerable amount of ore actually. A retriever takes just over an hour to full a jet can, a Coveter takes about 35-40 minutes, a hulk on the other hand takes 20 minutes. Ive done the math, 20 minutes with a properly rigged Hulk and skills (exhumer at 4, mining foreman at 5, t2 mining crystals). Potentally a hulk can fill 31,200 units of space (8 GSC's) in 15 minutes if one were to get all the mining implants and made use of t2 mining drones. The implants alone would add an additonal 20% to the total yeild (you would need another account though, otherwise its 15%). This translates to 124,800 m3 per hour as opposed to a retriever's 28,000 m3 per hour. Thanks I didn't want to get into the nitty girtty of actual figures, but there we are. There needs to be a wider gap, obviously. Reshape EVE for the future! Sell the 0.0 gates to player owned corps, and encourage an open ended universe.
WGAnubis Marrith Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.01 23:56:00 - [26] Originally by: NightKhaos Originally by: WGAnubis Marrith Originally by: NightKhaos Originally by: WGAnubis Marrith Originally by: Rob Buie Edited by: Rob Buie on 29/02/2008 20:00:51 Thanks I didn't want to get into the nitty girtty of actual figures, but there we are. There needs to be a wider gap, obviously. Yeah I agree. Though I can not be sure I am willing to bet that CCP reconized the sheer expense that the hulk was going to be when it first came out, which quickly rose to 500-600 million isk. However over time that price has lowered considerablly to the point that it costs about the same as a tier 2 or tier three battleship. Heck when I bought my Hulk it was only about 150 million, 200 million with all the equipment included.


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