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Chen Chura
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Posted - 2008.02.26 22:30:00 -
[1]
Short Version:
Insurance is balanced against minerals lost in ship destruction
Better insurance grades give better isk to mineral ratio
Long Version:
Lets say we have a omnipotent HULK miner with infinite targeting range and mining laser range. For the sake of being too lazy to factor in travel times and miscellaneous logistics of moving minerals and ore from null, low, and high sec belts into a common production system.
With three strip miners mining 1712 m^3 volume per three minute cycle this mythical miner of legend could mine all the minerals necessary to manufacture one Dominix every 250 minutes. ( did I mention mythical miner man has perfect tax-free refine?)
In this 250 minutes he has made absolutely no isk at all but has essentially created 58k m^3 of minerals from the vacuum of space.
Lets say he decides to build a Dominix, it will take him 250 minutes and cost him 3,500 isk assuming a 1,000 isk installation fee and a 500 isk per hour rent. This is a mineral and isk sinkà. Factory rent is isk gone to an NPC (assuming npc station factory line) and there is a 1% mineral loss assuming skill PE5 and bpc ME9.
He sells the ship by direct trade (avoiding isk sink of taxes and broker fees). [Note: no isk is made or lost here, isk just trades hands] {ps: note: from the miner's perspective he has just traded in a load time for minerals then traded thoes in for isk}
At this point a few things can happen depending on the owner of the shinny new Dominix.
He can reprocess his brand new ship for mineralsà. Net effect is nothing the ship is just minerals anyway. Maybe the mythic hulk miner cries but he is too busy mining/building the next dominix to notice.
He gets the dominix blown up with no insurance! à this creates a default 40% insurance pay out at the loss of the minerals he could have gotten had he reprocessed his ship. ( isk faucet, mineral sink) oooh and shinny or not so shinny salvage parts.
He gets dominix platinum insurance and then gets blown upà well first the insurance cost him 30% of the payout then he gets 100% payout so he NETs a 70% insurance pay out Plus the chance that someone gets salvage all for the cost of the minerals he could have gotten from reprocessingà. ( greater volume isk faucet, same mineral sink )
He insures the dominix and the insurance is voided by trade/repackaging or simply expiresà well this guy is just out 30% of the payout if he went platinum ( Isk SINK )
At least now you know why you donÆt get insurance for reprocessing your shipà you would get payout + mineralsà. Rebuild/reinsure ship rinse and repeatàà.
So YES insurance does print isk out of nothingnessà only CCP economists know if this is adequately offset by the isk sink of voided and expired insurance policies.
But on the bright side ships blowing up are removing minerals from the mineral economy.
And mining although creating minerals from nothingness is removing precious minutes and hours from the lives of industrialists.
Unless the industrialist is being operated by a macroà then it really is nothingness -> time -> minerals -> isk -> ??? -> profit!!!
Well there is the electricity that runs the machine the macro client is on but now you are outside the Eve Economy. |
anti disestablishment
Caldari
Erectile Disfunction
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Posted - 2008.02.26 22:38:00 -
[2]
The game has boundaries, hence certain things going nowhere and coming from nowhere.
 Originally by: Derek Sigres
The Manticore - the things are built out of dreams and soggy newsprint to make room for the launchers.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.02.26 22:42:00 -
[3]
How 'bout those NPC bounties. Where do they come from?
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Chen Chura
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Posted - 2008.02.26 22:46:00 -
[4]
time and ammo.... unless you use t1 lasers or drones. then just time
just like mining ore comes from nowhere. |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.02.26 23:03:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Pohbis
How 'bout those NPC bounties. Where do they come from?
They come from the LP store, where billions of ISK magically disappear every day. Yeah, that's where it goes. Right back into brand new NPC pirate ships.
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Archomis
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Posted - 2008.02.27 01:33:00 -
[6]
Just like 90% real-life money, it comes from thin-air!
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Dai Nau
Mothership Connection Inc.
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.27 01:48:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Archomis
Just like 90% real-life money, it comes from thin-air!
ron paul supporters should be gassed
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F'nog
Amarr
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Valainaloce
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Posted - 2008.02.27 06:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Dai Nau
Originally by: Archomis
Just like 90% real-life money, it comes from thin-air!
ron paul supporters should be gassed
It's true though. Real money only has a value because it says it does on it (at least in the US), or your government says that it does. The days of all money being backed by gold, silver, or what have you are long gone.
So Eve isn't that different from the real world after all.
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
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Letias
Caldari
Teikoku Trade Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.27 07:22:00 -
[9]
Its not free at all.
The cost of the minerals is how ever much else you could have gotten in the 250 minutes you spent mining/manufacturing. Just because you mined the ores doesn't make it free at all if you could have made 80 mill from running level fours in that time then the ore is worth 80 mill, simple as that.
_____________________________
Originally by: Damini Frostmane
Sex isn't sex unless one of you is crying afterwards :-)
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.02.27 09:52:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Letias
Its not free at all.
The cost of the minerals is how ever much else you could have gotten in the 250 minutes you spent mining/manufacturing. Just because you mined the ores doesn't make it free at all if you could have made 80 mill from running level fours in that time then the ore is worth 80 mill, simple as that.
That's a good point. If you think of it in terms of minerals = ISK then it's just converting the minerals into usable ISK. By extension, ship loss is an ISK sink in that sense since any modules lost in the explosion aren't compensated for in any way.
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N1fty
Amarr
Galactic Shipyards Inc
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.02.27 10:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Chen Chura
mythical miner of legend
Chribba!
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
I usually close my eyes and just beg, out loud added with a lot of squealing.
I swear it helps.
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Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.02.27 11:25:00 -
[12]
Originally by: N1fty
Originally by: Chen Chura
mythical miner of legend
Chribba!
Chribba also crossed my mind as I read that.
Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
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Culmen
Caldari
HeartVenom Inc.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.02.27 13:30:00 -
[13]
IN BEFORE CRIBBA!
i dont care if he's distracted
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Why do i even need a sig? |
Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2008.02.27 13:44:00 -
[14]
Recently the British government did stuff that created about 50 billion quids. Just took a couple of lines in the Bank of England's ledger.
Robert Peston's blog on the BBC news website will give you a sore head trying to understand how.
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brainball
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.27 14:16:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Letias
Its not free at all.
The cost of the minerals is how ever much else you could have gotten in the 250 minutes you spent mining/manufacturing. Just because you mined the ores doesn't make it free at all if you could have made 80 mill from running level fours in that time then the ore is worth 80 mill, simple as that.
The net worth of the minerals is what silly john the producer is willing to pay for them. What else you could have done in the timespan you spent mining has absolutely nothing to do with it.
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Falkus Widowmaker
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Posted - 2008.02.27 14:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dai Nau
Originally by: Archomis
Just like 90% real-life money, it comes from thin-air!
ron paul supporters should be gassed
Diaf.
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Maxpie
Cross Roads
Ouroboros Cross Combine
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Posted - 2008.02.27 16:23:00 -
[17]
What I would really like to know is why is there insurance at all? Particularly for combat ships. If anything, insurance rates should be based upon the risk. CCP knows how many of what ship gets blown up, so they could actually implement this.
As it stands no, the insurance company must be operating at a tremendous loss. My auto insurance policy specifically excludes damage to my car due to acts of war or for criminal acts, why wouldn't it be like that in Eve where the risk is so much higher.
He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things. |
Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2008.02.27 16:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Maxpie
What I would really like to know is why is there insurance at all?
It is a game balance thing. It reduces the death penalty. The devs could up the payout, so reducing the death penalty or they could reduce the payout so increasing the death penalty.
By allowing the player to choose, between limits, the death penalty you allow more people to play the game.
Which allows CCP to buy better hardware and so on...
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.02.27 16:58:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Maxpie
What I would really like to know is why is there insurance at all?
Jenny Spitfire 3.0 said it best... it's so you can buy a ship, go have some fun, get blown up, then buy a new ship and do it again. What's wrong with having fun? (Not an exact quote, btw, but I support it fully.) If there was no insurance it would discourage PvP in a drastic way.
And besides, there are plenty of ISK sinks in the game. There's really nothing imbalancing about it.
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Joker Kaaos
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.02.27 18:15:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Joker Kaaos on 27/02/2008 18:15:44
Originally by: Maxpie
What I would really like to know is why is there insurance at all?
Seems to me that ship insurance is really a way of establishing price controls.
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Susa Ou
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Posted - 2008.02.27 18:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Archomis
Just like 90% real-life money, it comes from thin-air!
not 90, 100% of all money has no real 'use-value' - and its not Ron Paul, its Marx. He is right about that, perhapss other things people dissagree with, but on the issue of money and use-value, he is right on the money 
Section 1, Das Kapital - you will see the argument in the first 25 pages.
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