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EU fines Microsoft Ç899million.

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Doctor Fruitloop	Posted - 2008.02.27 14:28:00 - [1] Edited by: Doctor Fruitloop on 27/02/2008 14:28:53 See here, interesting happenings, first time they had to actualy fine someone to enforce the law.... Originally by: me bored The only bad thing about pokemon is what a frustratingly terrible trainer ash is. Can you believe that he actually tried to use a caterpie to catch a flying type pokemon? What a noob.
Maltitol Gallente Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.27 14:31:00 - [2] Microsoft is the new BORG. its about time somebody f*s them up Originally by:** CCP Wrangler Well boohoo
Kappas. Galaxy Punks Black Core Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.27 15:02:00 - [3] They got fined for the same sort of thing a while back, didn't they? __________________
Glassback Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.27 17:35:00 - [4] I'm sure they can afford it. They prolly made 3x that just by delaying. I'm sure this will get me killed, but if I had built my own company up from nothing into a world leader I would be a bit ****ed if a government came along and told me "not to do so well cause it's not fair on others". Love the or hate them, we are probably having fun on an internet spacship game becasue of MS in some way. G. BH Kharnubis > Need more people against the MC meanies
Kyanzes Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2008.02.27 17:41:00 - [5] Edited by: Kyanzes on 27/02/2008 17:41:41 Originally by: Kappas. They got fined for the same sort of thing a while back, didn't they? They wouldn't cease the unlawful activity. $1.2B bribe! Nice! --------------------------------------------- GET TO THE CHOPPA!!! The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.27 17:48:00 - [6] If microsoft was smart they'd just stop selling or supporting their products in Europe for a month or two. EU wouldn't have much of a choice but to bugger off when threatened with the sudden cutoff of any sort of customer support. ___________ Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up. Zaqar> CCP
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.27 18:06:00 - [7] Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 27/02/2008 17:52:06 If microsoft was smart they'd just stop selling or supporting their products in Europe for a month or two. EU wouldn't have much of a choice but to bugger off when threatened with the sudden cutoff of any sort of customer support "EI critical Windows patches". That or the European market would just realise that - shock horror - there are other software vendors than MS out there. The biggest reason MS have so much of a monopoly is technophobic company directors don't feel safe buying anything other than MS. If they were forced to change, they'd see its all much of a muchness in the end. MS need the European market more than the European market needs MS. ------ Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.27 18:11:00 - [8] trust laws for the most part are bs really. Like suing microsoft cause it packaged IE with Windows. OMG god forbid a company packages it's own software. It's the end of the world as we know it. So what's this EU Law? you have to give code to rivals? wth? ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Anna Sofia Lagavullin	Posted - 2008.02.27 18:13:00 - [9] Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 27/02/2008 17:52:06 If microsoft was smart they'd just stop selling or supporting their products in Europe for a month or two. EU wouldn't have much of a choice but to bugger off when threatened with the sudden cutoff of any sort of customer support "EI critical Windows patches". tbh I don't think you'd quite make it as their chief strategy officer :)
Mark Lucius Kinetic Vector Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.27 18:48:00 - [10] Edited by: Mark Lucius on 27/02/2008 18:49:31 Originally by: Rialtor Edited by: Rialtor on 27/02/2008 18:23:37 trust laws for the most part are bs really. Like suing microsoft cause it packaged/integrated IE with Windows. OMG god forbid a company packages it's own software. It's the end of the world as we know it. So what's this EU Law? you have to give code to rivals? wth? It's called 'monopoly' in politics. It happens when a company gets such a large market share that both consumers and trade (in that area) suffer from the unfair competition that arises. While the actions of Microsoft are logical considering the situation they are in, it is better for the consumer if they aren't allowed to do it. Hence the laws and fines. ---
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.27 18:57:00 - [11] Edited by: DubanFP on 27/02/2008 18:57:17 Originally by: Anna Sofia Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 27/02/2008 17:52:06 If microsoft was smart they'd just stop selling or supporting their products in Europe for a month or two. EU wouldn't have much of a choice but to bugger off when threatened with the sudden cutoff of any sort of customer support "IE critical Windows patches". tbh I don't think you'd quite make it as their chief strategy officer :) I'm not stupid enough to think they'd do it.. Though it would be amuzing to see Microsoft & the EU duke it out in such a manner. ___________ Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up. Zaqar> CCP
Lord Zoran Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2008.02.27 19:05:00 - [12] ms should tell the eu to sod off tbh
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.27 19:25:00 - [13] Incidentally, both the US and UK also have anti-monopoly laws extremely similar to the one the EU is charging Microsoft over. The difference is that the EU has both the motivation and clout to actually enforce it, while other countries don't. This is not some special and particularly stupid law that the EU is enforcing on some poor company- its a law that many other countries have a version of, and many other countries (US included) should have been enforcing. And indeed they have in plenty of other cases. Much of the Microsoft monopoly debate is that MS appear to be getting special treatment from the US and other countries, while the laws are happily enforced on other companies. ------ Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.
Natsuki Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.27 20:34:00 - [14] Edited by: Natsuki on 27/02/2008 20:34:35 How is better for the consumer? if the EU keeps fining all the top companies in the name of "fairness" (they're really just pro extortionists) this will only raise costs for the consumer. ----------------------------------- btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.02.27 20:53:00 - [15] [02:28] EU strikes your proffits, wrecking for ÇÇÇÇÇ damage. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Mark Lucius Kinetic Vector Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.27 21:06:00 - [16] Edited by: Mark Lucius on 27/02/2008 21:08:29 Originally by: Natsuki Edited by: Natsuki on 27/02/2008 20:34:35 How is better for the consumer? if the EU keeps fining all the top companies in the name of "fairness" (they're really just pro extortionists) this will only raise costs for the consumer. Honest competition will either increase quality or lower costs in an attempt for companies to gain the favour of the customers. If Microsoft pushes all competitors out of the market they can basically 'fix' the price in their favour. [edit: Yes, I know there is more to it, but it generally holds true.] ---
Isiskhan Gnostic Misanthropy	Posted - 2008.02.27 21:08:00 - [17] Originally by: Rialtor So what's this EU Law? you have to give code to rivals? wth? Cheap demagoguery must be on sale today. Of course it is not about giving your code to rivals. It's about not making your file formats, protocols and APIs closed and propietary, simple as that. Allowing other companies' software to inter-operate with Microsoft's solutions, not locking their customers into them forever. Letting competitors, well, compete. Microsoft has been either deliberately closing off other software from their own by not making those public, or making vague threats about IP lawsuits to anyone who tries (see their bogus claims about Linux / Samba) for far too long.
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.27 21:27:00 - [18] Edited by: Rialtor on 27/02/2008 21:29:14 Originally by: Mark Lucius Edited by: Mark Lucius on 27/02/2008 18:49:31 Originally by: Rialtor Edited by: Rialtor on 27/02/2008 18:23:37 trust laws for the most part are bs really. Like suing microsoft cause it packaged/integrated IE with Windows. OMG god forbid a company packages it's own software. It's the end of the world as we know it. So what's this EU Law? you have to give code to rivals? wth? It's called 'monopoly' in politics. It happens when a company gets such a large market share that both consumers and trade (in that area) suffer from the unfair competition that arises. While the actions of Microsoft are logical considering the situation they are in, it is better for the consumer if they aren't allowed to do it. Hence the laws and fines. That's what the status quo wishes you to believe, that's not currently how trust laws operate in the real world. Trust laws are a failure. Take this criticism for example ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.02.27 21:28:00 - [19] The US has been promising things like this for years, they just keep putting the penalty on hold while Microsoft appeals again and again. If Microsoft closed down tomorrow and refused to allow anyone to use their file formats then a billion businesses worldwide would be screwed when their old archives became paperweights. Microsoft knows this and does it deliberately because it also stifles the competition. ---- Anything less is wasted effort
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.02.27 21:31:00 - [20] Well, the EU is actually doing something about it, won't the Americans follow suit when they realise that they actually can? And the rest of the world has Linux to fall back on, how long would it be before there are linux to windows ports of everything that shut down? Regardless of copy write people would still make the patches and people would use them. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.02.27 21:40:00 - [21] The natural conclusion of all competition is a monopoly. We compete. Why? To win. And as importantly, to make someone else lose. The problem is, neither technological progress nor the interests of the consumer continue to be served once this point is reached. It is rare for it to happen, but it does. Free markets have an end-game. Someone has to press the Reset button from time to time when it happens, or innovation dies. For some things, there is random mutation. For everything else, there is Mas- ahem regulators. We could beat on the EU, but if US regulators had any teeth, they would have succeeded in this area in 2000 or 2001, before the first Euro banknote even entered circulation. As things stand, we can thank the free market for Vista. EVE CCG Trinity Booster
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.27 21:48:00 - [22] Originally by: Cmdr Sy The natural conclusion of all competition is a monopoly. We compete. Why? To win. And as importantly, to make someone else lose. The problem is, neither technological progress nor the interests of the consumer continue to be served once this point is reached. It is rare for it to happen, but it does. Free markets have an end-game. Someone has to press the Reset button from time to time when it happens, or innovation dies. For some things, there is random mutation. For everything else, there is Mas- ahem regulators. We could beat on the EU, but if US regulators had any teeth, they would have succeeded in this area in 2000 or 2001, before the first Euro banknote even entered circulation. As things stand, we can thank the free market for Vista. Such a case can't really happen, if a company gains a monopoly, it will eventually lose it. This is due to many factors, disdain of the customer itself could arise if allegations of price fixing were established. In any case, another competitor would arise since the market would be wide open. The margins for profit would be too high for others to stay out of the market. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.02.27 22:02:00 - [23] Originally by: Rialtor Such a case can't really happen, if a company gains a monopoly, it will eventually lose it. This is due to many factors, disdain of the customer itself could arise if allegations of price fixing were established. In any case, another competitor would arise since the market would be wide open. The margins for profit would be too high for others to stay out of the market. In any case the consumer has it's own mechanisms for dealing with companies. Boycotting for one. Well, it has. Exhibit 1: Microsoft Corporation. Price fixing is a moot point. It has the potential to happen in any market. It is not relevant in this case unless under the more general heading of "uncompetitive practices" such as using own economies of scale to bundle generic versions of software for less than specialists' cost price. Rise of competitors and incentives of profit margins, see barriers to entry. Boycotts, see standards and compatibility. No, I don't really see a solution that does not involve a nerf. EVE CCG Trinity Booster
Calderio Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:23:00 - [24] Isnt Microsoft older than the EU? Couldn't they just say that since they have been using such business practices since before the formation of the EU that they should be grandfathered in? Click The Power Of BOB Compells you
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:34:00 - [25] Edited by: Rialtor on 27/02/2008 23:34:31 Originally by: Cmdr Sy Well, it has. Exhibit 1: Microsoft Corporation. Price fixing is a moot point. It has the potential to happen in any market. It is not relevant in this case unless under the more general heading of "uncompetitive practices" such as using own economies of scale to bundle generic versions of software for less than specialists' cost price. Rise of competitors and incentives of profit margins, see barriers to entry. Boycotts, see standards and compatibility. No, I don't really see a solution that does not involve a nerf. I don't see any real fault with Microsoft. I'm not anti big business, so I don't grant that as a real exhibit. There are many competitors to Microsoft. Google in some areas, RedHat in others, Apple in Others. I could go on and list the various industries, with fairly large entities on the other side of microsoft, so I don't see why Microsoft being both big and successful is such a bad thing for the market as it's competitors are obvious. I'm also not some kind of Microsoft fanboy, I'm speaking from an ideological standpoint. Are Microsoft perfect angels in the marketplace? Of course not, but I think many are too quick to crucify them for Market Blunders (Yes all companies make them). How is packaging software an unfair business practice? It's things like that, that makes me hate antitrust laws as they exist today. You're basically telling a company not to provide a service that most Users are looking for. It's a case of government intervention gone haywire. And telling a company not to integrate their own software with one another. Who is a government to tell me what my OS can and can't provide for my customer that wants it? ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:34:00 - [26] Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 27/02/2008 23:35:15 I don't think antiquity comes into it. US authorities tried to go down this route years ago and lost on appeal, so the EU had little choice but to seek local solutions. In fact, the action in the US was far more extreme, the goal was break-up of the company not just securing interoperability. At least the EU has modest realistic goals and is doing it the legal way, I doubt there is a single licensed copy of Windows at local government level in Russia, China and many FSU states for example. Attitudes to intellectual property do indeed vary. EVE CCG Trinity Booster
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:42:00 - [27] Originally by: Rialtor I'm speaking from an ideological standpoint. I am speaking from a market functioning correctly standpoint. Microsoft has been a distortion in the landscape for so long, it is accepted as natural. Yet were this situation to be replicated in any other market, eg autos, regulatory action would not be long in coming. I wonder what makes them different. EVE CCG Trinity Booster
mama guru Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.27 23:47:00 - [28] Edited by: mama guru on 27/02/2008 23:48:05 Edited by: mama guru on 27/02/2008 23:46:55 [Quote=Microsoft]An investigation concluded in 2004 that Microsoft was guilty of freezing out rivals in products such as media players, while unfairly linking its Explorer internet browser to its Windows operating system at the expense of rival servers. IF you dont like other people making their own superior media players microsoft, make your own superior product. Thats what healthy competition is all about, striving to please the consumer. Dont resort to cheap shots like using your secret and rather poor source code to freeze rivaling comapines out of the market. There is a good reason as to why nearly all malware/viruses are only effective VS the Windows operation system, mainly because its not open source and will always have the same old loopholes no matter how many years go by. Its because microsoft does not understand the above that they get fined. Doing stuff like that is not healthy liberal market competition, its abusive use of a dominant position. Dont like it? Go home, we dont need you anyway. To all the yanks defending microsoft: get a grip(read the above). If you dont: well lets just say that there is a damn good reason as to why you fail at market economy. EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising	Posted - 2008.02.28 00:21:00 - [29] Edited by: Elmicker on 28/02/2008 00:21:31 Originally by: Calderio Isnt Microsoft older than the EU? Not by a long shot. Originally by: mama guru stuff This.
Coconut Joe VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:25:00 - [30] Originally by: Calderio Isnt Microsoft older than the EU? Quote: Oh god, thats the funniest thing I've read all week, thanks for that. - Eve IGB Store Template - The complete eve retail solution.

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