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Jonny MoJo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.28 07:32:00 - [1] Edited by: Jonny MoJo on 28/02/2008 07:37:48 Seriously, Remove it from LP store. If Navy Apoc is not getting a boost like the normal apoc, then the normal apoc will outclass it. We all know this. Navy apoc is useless to be honest, given ships like the "fixed" new t1 apoc or Nightmare being far superior! So rather than destroy players trust and refund players lp/isk/items that they use to purchase a Navy apoc, either fix it or remove it from LP store. If you wont remove it from LP store, then offer a LP/isk/item refund to the 90% of the eve community who do not read the forums and mistakenly spends hundreds of thousands of LP on this ship etc only to relise their ship got worse unlike any other racial faction ship in game. We all know that if Navy apoc is not fixed now, it will be 1-2 years (with the realease of factional warfare) before ingame players can fly a fixed navy apoc. So please fix navy apoc or remove it from LP store. The handeling of this situation can either make CCP look good, or look like they could not care about why their players play this game to get faction ships. Refresh for next Real life CCP Sig(21 Total)
Pumpkin Bread Caldari Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.02.28 08:35:00 - [2] Edited by: Pumpkin Bread on 28/02/2008 08:40:17 You deserve the navy apoc to remain unchanged, the way you keep whining. But seriously, who cares? Waaaaa! CCP lied to me! No they did not lie to you. Its called show info. LOOK at what you are buying. Don't be a feeble minded sheep. Also, you do not know that factional warfare will be out in a year or two. What if it is a month after the boost patch? I do doubt it will be that soon, but clearly the devs think that it is soon enough to warrant waiting until factional warfare to change it. Simmer. Edit: clarification of statements.
Law Enforcer Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.02.28 09:07:00 - [3] the navy apocalypse seriously does suck the big one. it could never really do anything better then a normal apocalypse and now it's just going to be silly when a normal t1 apocalypse outclasses it. I'd rather not wait half a year for CCP to make a ship "not suck". give it more grid so it can mount 8x T2 tachyons with out fitting mods or re-class the ship as a PVE ship like the nightmare and give it 4x turrets with a 100 percent damage bonus and an extra low compared to a paladin.
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.28 09:14:00 - [4] Odd why this is a problem, is not navy just a template put onto the old ship? Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions! I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them.
Jonny MoJo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.28 10:15:00 - [5] Edited by: Jonny MoJo on 28/02/2008 10:16:07 Originally by: Dristra Odd why this is a problem, is not navy just a template put onto the old ship? The Apoc is being fixed so it is no longer the worst battleship. Navy apoc will remain unchanged. This creats a bug because if a player upgrades a Apoc into a Navy Apoc via LP store, then the ship gets worse insted of better since CCP are not planning to upgrade Navy apoc. Thus, the player wastes hundreds of thosands of Lp and isk on making a ship worse. This is first time in mmo history that soneone upgrades into something worse So CCP should remove Navy apoc from LP store and admit their mistake, or do what is right for the customer and give navy apoc the new apoc bonus's. Refresh for next Real life CCP Sig(21 Total)
Empero Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.28 10:34:00 - [6] Originally by: Jonny MoJo Lot of whining... Hey Tool! I'll quote something for you. Originally by: CCP Fendahl Unfortunately the faction Apocalypse variants will not be changed in the same patch as the T1 Apocalypse. The reason is that we'll be looking at faction ships in general for the Factional Warfare patch and don't want to risk having to change the faction Apocalypses again after such a short time. Nothing has been decided yet, though, and my guess would be that we decide to let the changes carry over to the faction variants. The Paladin has little in common with the Apocalypse and giving it an optimal range bonus would make it overpowered in my opinion. As you can see, they have a good reason for not changing it. So, be patient. STFU and back in your hole. ---------------
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.28 10:49:00 - [7] Lol! Oh no, Johnny found his way into the Game and Development forum!!!! As a side note...why on earth does it NEED to be removed? If the ******s who get one dont click 'info' before they purchase it, then its their own fault. Honestly, do you whine for the sake of it, or are you just deformed in the mind?
Jonny MoJo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.28 11:11:00 - [8] Originally by: Empero Originally by: Jonny MoJo Lot of whining... Hey Tool! I'll quote something for you. Originally by: CCP Fendahl Unfortunately the faction Apocalypse variants will not be changed in the same patch as the T1 Apocalypse. The reason is that we'll be looking at faction ships in general for the Factional Warfare patch and don't want to risk having to change the faction Apocalypses again after such a short time. Nothing has been decided yet, though, and my guess would be that we decide to let the changes carry over to the faction variants. The Paladin has little in common with the Apocalypse and giving it an optimal range bonus would make it overpowered in my opinion. As you can see, they have a good reason for not changing it. So, be patient. STFU and back in your hole. Faction warfare is slated for end of 2008, so realistically, it will be mid 2009 before a player is able to undock in a fixed navy apoc. Thats 1-2 years away. And you know that if they dont fit it now, they wont fix it ever. Refresh for next Real life CCP Sig(21 Total)
Jonny MoJo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.28 11:16:00 - [9] Originally by: Waxau Lol! Oh no, Johnny found his way into the Game and Development forum!!!! As a side note...why on earth does it NEED to be removed? If the ******s who get one dont click 'info' before they purchase it, then its their own fault. Honestly, do you whine for the sake of it, or are you just deformed in the mind? Why have a useless facility like spending hundreds of thousands of LP to make a ship worse? Oh I see. Trust show info. And when a guy use's show info for his crystal set, its a case of "use the Forums". And when someone uses forms, he finds half the stuff inaccurate. 90% of eve population do not use forums, and are thus unaware that the Navy apoc is going to be worse than the t1 original. Nobody shows info every day on every single module they buy, nor is it valid to assume everybody would since show info has a reputation for incorrect descriptions. Most players will think "pah, they must have forgotten to change ship description". You know, like they did with half the ships in eve (even the drake used to have wrong description to name but a few) Then the players will waste lp and isk and relise the ship is useless and worse than t1. So I suggest removing it from LP store untill it is fixed in a year or two it takes for facitonal warfare to be released. Refresh for next Real life CCP Sig(21 Total)
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.28 11:57:00 - [10] I have already analyzed the Navy Apoc situation. The most reasonable logical explanation is that the devs secretly enjoy hurting people. Removing the Navy Apoc would also hurt people, but not in a sweet subtle backstabbing way that current situation provides. There is a chance the devs involved are in complete denial of what they are doing.

Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.02.28 12:50:00 - [11] Jojo, you got such a great logic. Saying "Hey, I ****** up, so you better pay me some money" really makes sense. No, Apoc should not be touched this time, it will be when they look at all navy ships for FW. Yes, FW is slated for release late in the future, but they might make the ship change before they release FW. FW is not just a rework of navy ships, you know... So, jump off the nail bed you are lying on and take a cold shower. The world isn't all bad, especially when you don't have 274 nails sticking into your back .
Red Drako	Posted - 2008.02.28 13:11:00 - [12] Well I think the ammar race does not need any more bonuses, it is bad as it is being a so called spiratly superior race forcing there belifes on all they come acrosed, there ships should be slow and technicly inferior. goes to show how religon worms its way into everything. It is crap.
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.28 14:38:00 - [13] Originally by: Jonny MoJo Edited by: Jonny MoJo on 28/02/2008 11:17:57 Originally by: Waxau Lol! Oh no, Johnny found his way into the Game and Development forum!!!! As a side note...why on earth does it NEED to be removed? If the ******s who get one dont click 'info' before they purchase it, then its their own fault. Honestly, do you whine for the sake of it, or are you just deformed in the mind? Why have a useless facility like spending hundreds of thousands of LP to make a ship worse? Oh I see. Trust show info. And when a guy use's show info for his crystal set, its a case of "use the Forums". And when someone uses forms, he finds half the stuff inaccurate. 90% of eve population do not use forums, and are thus unaware that the Navy apoc is going to be worse than the t1 original. Nobody shows info every day on every single module they buy, nor is it valid to assume everybody would since show info has a reputation for incorrect descriptions. Most players will think "pah, they must have forgotten to change ship description". You know, like they did with half the ships in eve. Even the drake used to have wrong description about bonus's to incorreft missles. The raven used to also have a incorrect show info description for almost 3 years (description used to state all missiles insted of just cruise/torps). Most players will assume description has not been updated due to common sense. Then the players will waste lp and isk and relise the ship is useless and worse than t1. So I suggest removing it from LP store untill it is fixed in a year or two it takes for facitonal warfare to be released. Lol...a little thing called PATCH NOTES. And if nubs dont read that, then they have a problem, not CCP. And not me. When you die in a gatecamp, cos you forgot to scout etc, do you whine to ccp? No. Well..you may, but normal people dont. Its not their problem. Its yours.
Red Drako	Posted - 2008.02.28 14:44:00 - [14] Well I agree with you on that, but things do need to be changed, and my continuing gamming experance will give me better insights to thouse things.
Donna Heywood Amarr Tribal Trust of Pator Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.28 15:50:00 - [15] I don`t have issues with my Navy Apoc. I like it :) nice with a centum tank. Though nice to get a boost.
Jonny MoJo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.28 16:20:00 - [16] Edited by: Jonny MoJo on 28/02/2008 16:22:09 Edited by: Jonny MoJo on 28/02/2008 16:21:04 Originally by: Waxau Lol...a little thing called PATCH NOTES. And if nubs dont read that, then they have a problem, not CCP. And not me. When you die in a gatecamp, cos you forgot to scout etc, do you whine to ccp? No. Well..you may, but normal people dont. Its not their problem. Its yours. Hey Fanboy, if you started playing a game of your logic level and you upgraded your mage from lvl1 to lvl2, you would expect the lvl2 mage to be better than the lvl1 mage. But what this does is make lvl2 mage worse than lvl1. Thats the wow logic for you, since you fanboys are all the same. 90% of eve population are normal sensible people. Seneible people do not read thousands of pages of patch notes. They just put the game on and use common sense. You are just like all the other fanboys that were saying the boot.ini issue was the customers fault. Your sense of logic astounds me. The Devs admit the Navy apoc needs to get fixed. But they cannot be bothered to fix it now. Thats the message they give the customer. In that case, rather than have their customers waste hundreds of thousands of lp, thus dresroying trust in CCP, I reccomend that CCP remove navy apoc from LP store, or fix navy apoc. How would you like to have a CNR having 1 less launcher than normal raven and be told "its ok, CCP will fix it 1-2 years later when faction warfare comes in"? You would be like, "wtf is such a bugged ship doing for sale in LP store then"? Refresh for next Real life CCP Sig(21 Total)
Nariana Verex Amarr Foundation of Extropian Independents	Posted - 2008.02.28 16:44:00 - [17] What we should be asking is why -not- change it to be in line with the standard Apoc, then change it down the road? It would make Navypocs actually usable [Not useful, mind you. USABLE.]. So change it, then a few months or a year down the road change it again. What is the problem? They're doing the same thing with Tracking Disrupters, aren't they? Those were just changed recently, and are being changed again. Do the right thing. Don't leave shuttles in space.
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.28 18:01:00 - [18] Originally by: Jonny MoJo Edited by: Jonny MoJo on 28/02/2008 16:22:09 Edited by: Jonny MoJo on 28/02/2008 16:21:04 Originally by: Waxau Lol...a little thing called PATCH NOTES. And if nubs dont read that, then they have a problem, not CCP. And not me. When you die in a gatecamp, cos you forgot to scout etc, do you whine to ccp? No. Well..you may, but normal people dont. Its not their problem. Its yours. Hey Fanboy, if you started playing a game of your logic level and you upgraded your mage from lvl1 to lvl2, you would expect the lvl2 mage to be better than the lvl1 mage. But what this does is make lvl2 mage worse than lvl1. Thats the wow logic for you, since you fanboys are all the same. 90% of eve population are normal sensible people. Seneible people do not read thousands of pages of patch notes. They just put the game on and use common sense. You are just like all the other fanboys that were saying the boot.ini issue was the customers fault. Your sense of logic astounds me. The Devs admit the Navy apoc needs to get fixed. But they cannot be bothered to fix it now. Thats the message they give the customer. In that case, rather than have their customers waste hundreds of thousands of lp, thus dresroying trust in CCP, I reccomend that CCP remove navy apoc from LP store, or fix navy apoc. How would you like to have a CNR having 1 less launcher than normal raven and be told "its ok, CCP will fix it 1-2 years later when faction warfare comes in"? You would be like, "wtf is such a bugged ship doing for sale in LP store then"? Lol. So you expect that because a ship is 'faction', that its better? Hmm...nice. So what about my worm? Why is it not any better than a Merlin in all honesty? My logic is fine. If people dont read patch notes, theyre the nubs who go 'WHY ARENT MAI TORPZ GETTIN PAST 20 KMZORS! Stupidity IS the persons fault. Downloading the client wasnt avoidable for those who had the ability to. But not checking info? Not checking patch notes? Their mistake, and their problem. And it has nothing to do with being a 'fanboi'. Its simple logic. Not WoW logic (whatever that is...). But this WoW logic...sounds like an upgrade to whatever you're using, thats for sure.
Lt Angus Caldari the united Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.02.28 18:32:00 - [19] For once hes right, navy apoc should be changed with the apoc Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.28 18:36:00 - [20] Originally by: Lt Angus For once hes right, navy apoc should be changed with the apoc Hes not arguing that. Hes wanting it removed from game

Jonny MoJo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.28 19:19:00 - [21] Edited by: Jonny MoJo on 28/02/2008 19:24:01 Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Lt Angus For once hes right, navy apoc should be changed with the apoc Hes not arguing that. Hes wanting it removed from game Oh its the Fanboy posting again. Please train reading to lvl1. I dont want it removed from the game. Insted, I want CCP to remove it from LP store if they are not going to fix this broken obsolete useless ship that is worse than the t1 version. Or refund players who WILL end up buying this ship from LP store and get annoyed with CCP when they relise they wasted everthing. I am saying FIX IT with Apoc patch or provide players with alternatives while they wait 1-2 years for factional warfare. You are arguing for no real reason. What do you want CCP to do to navy apoc? You want them to NOT fix it? To NOT give good customer service to their customers who buy one only to find it worse than original? Begone Fanboy! Refresh for next Real life CCP Sig(21 Total)
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.28 21:17:00 - [22] Originally by: Jonny MoJo Edited by: Jonny MoJo on 28/02/2008 19:24:01 Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Lt Angus For once hes right, navy apoc should be changed with the apoc Hes not arguing that. Hes wanting it removed from game Oh its the Fanboy posting again. Please train reading to lvl1. I dont want it removed from the game. Insted, I want CCP to remove it from LP store if they are not going to fix this broken obsolete useless ship that is worse than the t1 version. Or refund players who WILL end up buying this ship from LP store and get annoyed with CCP when they relise they wasted everthing. I am saying FIX IT with Apoc patch or provide players with alternatives while they wait 1-2 years for factional warfare. You are arguing for no real reason. What do you want CCP to do to navy apoc? You want them to NOT fix it? To NOT give good customer service to their customers who buy one only to find it worse than original? Begone Fanboy! Train up reading eh? So your threads subject being " Remove Navy Apoc "....is that me not reading eh? And what im arguing against, is your insessant, lack of intellectual posting, that comes accross as a 5 year old who just got a toy taken away. Fix it by all means, but all you do is whine and *****. I wonder if you even have time to play eve, let alone have the experience to make comprehensive reasons for your whines. But yes, keep calling me fanboy. It only further proves your lack of skill when it comes to evolving your arguements.
Jonny MoJo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.28 22:06:00 - [23] Originally by: Waxau So your threads subject being " Remove Navy Apoc "....is that me not reading eh? And what im arguing against, is your insessant, lack of intellectual posting, that comes accross as a 5 year old who just got a toy taken away. . Please stop posting. Read the first post. It quite clearly says LP store to prevent unaware players from wasting unknowing hundreds of thousands of LP until CCP fix it. You are not attacking my argument. None of your posts are against my arguments of fixing the Navy apoc. They are all attack me and not my argument. Nice Ad hominem attack Fanboy. Refresh for next Real life CCP Sig(21 Total)
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.29 01:17:00 - [24] Originally by: Jonny MoJo Originally by: Waxau So your threads subject being " Remove Navy Apoc "....is that me not reading eh? And what im arguing against, is your insessant, lack of intellectual posting, that comes accross as a 5 year old who just got a toy taken away. . Please stop posting. Read the first post. It quite clearly says LP store to prevent unaware players from wasting unknowing hundreds of thousands of LP until CCP fix it. You are not attacking my argument. None of your posts are against my arguments of fixing the Navy apoc. They are all attack me and not my argument. Nice Ad hominem attack Fanboy. Oh youre right its against you. As all of your posts are rather um....********? But hey, you're the one getting worked up about it :) toodles o/
Jonny MoJo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.29 07:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Jonny MoJo Please stop posting. Read the first post. It quite clearly says LP store to prevent unaware players from wasting unknowing hundreds of thousands of LP until CCP fix it. You are not attacking my argument. None of your posts are against my arguments of fixing the Navy apoc. They are all attack me and not my argument. Nice Ad hominem attack Fanboy. Oh youre right its against you. As all of your posts are rather um....********? But hey, you're the one getting worked up about it :) toodles o/ Thanks for confirming that you are trolling this thread. You even admit personal attacks against me, since you lack anything to go against my argument. Therefore begone troll, and I hope a mod removes your posts from this thread. Refresh for next Real life CCP Sig(21 Total)
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.29 09:02:00 - [26] oh...um :( Ok might man. Ill go now. Oh no, wait. Thats right. Why would i listen to a moron? Simple fact mate, is you're whining to high heaven, about PLAYERS lackings and failings. Not CCPs. Thus, im rather sure its not on their 'top-things-to-do' list.
Red Drako	Posted - 2008.02.29 09:11:00 - [27] I don't know about everyone else, but when I look to buying a new ship I have it setup in Eve Fitting Tool and compair it to its sister ships, if I see that it is not worth the millions of ISK then I don't buy it, for example, The navy Caracal is only slightly better than it's T1 predicesor, so I prefeer to get the cerebrus insted. I do understand that this navy apoc should be a bit better at one thing, but having circular petty arguments and senceless bashing does not get anyone anywere.
Sorien Marutor The Last Samurais	Posted - 2008.02.29 18:27:00 - [28] Originally by: Jonny MoJo This is first time in mmo history that soneone upgrades into something worse No, it's not... Hellgate London was first :p But the rest is correct, a Faction Ship worse then the Stack one should not be.
El Mauru Amarr Nexus Analytics Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.29 22:00:00 - [29] Edited by: El Mauru on 29/02/2008 22:00:55 Eve-search will amazingly enough reveal a dev-comment where they stated that they are keeping re-balancing faction-ships for the factional warfare thing- (at least i read it somewhere earlier but am too lazy to find the link for this op) That being said- OP is sissy :-P -
Jonny MoJo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.29 22:34:00 - [30] Originally by: El Mauru Edited by: El Mauru on 29/02/2008 22:00:55 Eve-search will amazingly enough reveal a dev-comment where they stated that they are keeping re-balancing faction-ships for the factional warfare thing- (at least i read it somewhere earlier but am too lazy to find the link for this op) That being said- OP is sissy :-P Have you read this post? The whole point of my Original Post is because the Devs plan is exactly that. That is why they Should remove Navy Apoc from LP store as it will take 1-2 years to fix it as factional warfare is coming in 1-2 years later. Why screw players around for 1-2 years Refresh for next Real life CCP Sig(21 Total)



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