| Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Nightfang
   |
Posted - 2004.04.05 10:09:00 -
[1]
I'd like to see a removal of the ability to fit two or more microwarpdrives.
The reason is very simple, they are what makes it completely impossible to catch someone who doesn't want to be caught.
I can bear that some people fill their low slots with warp core stabilizers and escape that way - because that situation will change when they revamp EW.
I can also bear that some people have instajumpbookmarks for the entire galaxy, because with the new interceptors and some teamwork they ain't impossible to catch. It justs requires some luck and effort.
What IS impossible though, is when every player in the galaxy uses a travel setup of two (or more) MWDs). They are absolutely impossible to catch in any way.
Example and proof: I used a Stiletto with 3 webs. I locked a guy and had him triplewebbed within the first second from where he dropped at our gate. Result; he jumped through without trouble just as our battleships had acquired their target locks (they even had sensor boosters and I clocked the guy moving at 2km/s before jumping).
This needs to be changed. It makes catching prey impossible (from a pirate's point of view), and it makes catching a pirate impossible (from the bountyhunter's point of view).
Gotta go now, though I would love to argue some more about this :)
/Nightfang
|
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 10:12:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 05/04/2004 10:13:32
Nope they are not. Impossible to catch that is.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 10:23:00 -
[3]
What you do is warp after him in your triple-web Interceptor and catch him at the next gate.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 10:47:00 -
[4]
What I mean is this; it doesn't matter if I use three webs on a guy and use them almost instantly after he has dropped out of warp at a gate - the effect of multiple MWD's is so powerful not even three webs affecting him before he has gained momentum is enough.
Multiple MWD makes is what makes it impossible to catch people in this game. Bookmarks can be countered, warp core stabilizers can be countered. Multiple MWD's can not.
I welcome you to try it :)
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 10:58:00 -
[5]
Hey, I'm all for removing the ability to use double-MWD.
I think just putting that into effect would've been preferable to the MWD-hell we currently face (re: cap usage/fitting reqs).
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Odet
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 10:58:00 -
[6]
Agreed... impossibel to try and stop those dual MWD frigs... alwayz get away from me. And i use 2 webs sometimes 3 Seriously ridiculous.
=This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry.= |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 11:07:00 -
[7]
I agree with the double mwd thing. ( And not just cause my favorite pirate started the latest thread about it ;) )
Althought I'd rather see a solution like a new skill along the lines of:
Rank 5; Advanced warp field control ( you get the idea )
Skill at alligning stacked warp fields allows usage of a second mwd at a -100% effect penalty 10% effect of a 2nd mwd per level.
Requirements:
lvl 4 acceleration control
lvl 4 high speed maneuvering
So at lvl 1 that 2nd mwd would give a 50% speed boost and at most at lvl 5 250%. That would still give people the option to use it, but it would come much less easily, and only those really dedicated to getting away would use a 2nd mwd and train to get a serious effect from it. And 3 mwds would be impossible.
Didn't spend to much time thinking about it but I would like something like this a lot better then saying you can't use more then 1 mwd period.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 11:08:00 -
[8]
A possible, and somewhat balanced solution (as I see it) would be to maybe allow multiple MWD as it is now, but greatly reduce the momentum gained by firing two at once.
This way it would be a viable option if you were desperate to run a blockade, but well outfitted campers with interceptors and so would be able to multiple-web you before you had gained enough momentum for it to be an invincible tactic.
As it is now you jump to an instant 2km/s the same time you click your two microwarpdrives - that really has to be changed. Really.
Possible solution in game-mechanic terms; Make it so that every MWD gives speedboost calculated from base speed. Two MWD's would then give 400% + 400% bonus (800%) instead of 400% * 400% (1600% from base speed)
Correct me if my math is wrong, but I'm quite sure this is how it works now :/
/Nightfang
|
Silverlancer
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 11:12:00 -
[9]
NO. Reasons:
1. It takes AGES to find hidden roid belts (the only way to mine solo in 0.0, and no they're not safe from rats either... they're just slightly safer than a normal belt). Using 2 MWDs is the ONLY decent way to find them fast enough.
2. People with multiple MWDs are sacrificing a LOT. If they have 4 MWDs on (enough to have 3 webbers on them and still be moving at 2000m/s), that means they have FAR less shield/cap--when they gate, they'll be basically out of cap--you can catch them.
3. MWDs are just like ECCM in many ways. They're the counter to webifiers. If CCP limits the number of MWDs to say, two... whats to stop pirates from having 3 interceptors a gate with 2 webifiers each? No way to escape, no matter what. Even if they had 6 MWDs, there would be no way to escape.
4. See above. Even if each pirate ship was limited to 2 webifiers, there could be multiple ships. So this really isn't fair--its like limiting the number of warp core stabs.
|
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 11:17:00 -
[10]
Catching him before he jumps or bringing HIS speed down isn't the only possible way to get someone.
Come on Nightfang you can do better than that :P.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 11:19:00 -
[11]
 Quote:
NO. Reasons:
1. It takes AGES to find hidden roid belts (the only way to mine solo in 0.0, and no they're not safe from rats either... they're just slightly safer than a normal belt). Using 2 MWDs is the ONLY decent way to find them fast enough.
2. People with multiple MWDs are sacrificing a LOT. If they have 4 MWDs on (enough to have 3 webbers on them and still be moving at 2000m/s), that means they have FAR less shield/cap--when they gate, they'll be basically out of cap--you can catch them.
3. MWDs are just like ECCM in many ways. They're the counter to webifiers. If CCP limits the number of MWDs to say, two... whats to stop pirates from having 3 interceptors a gate with 2 webifiers each? No way to escape, no matter what. Even if they had 6 MWDs, there would be no way to escape.
4. See above. Even if each pirate ship was limited to 2 webifiers, there could be multiple ships. So this really isn't fair--its like limiting the number of warp core stabs.
Can't comment on Nr 1), since I'm trying to enhance the PvP field here and not the roid seeking life. Use frigates with nanofibres and a single MWD to achieve the same result and then BM the location?
Nr 2) Those sacrifices mean *nothing* since they are perfectly safe from any situation where they will need cap/shields. They don't need to have 4 MWD's fitted - all they need is two. That way they can achieve enough speed before all the interceptors in the world can target and web them. This is so because two MWDs have the effect of giving godlike speed instantaneously.
Nr 3) and 4). If a gatecamping party has taken such massive steps to stop people at a gate - they should be able to stop people at a gate. Pirates, anti-pirates and privateers alike.
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 11:21:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Catching him before he jumps or bringing HIS speed down isn't the only possible way to get someone.
Come on Nightfang you can do better than that :P.
I don't see you contributing anything useful to the discussion other than "Haha, I have a secret I won't tell you." Until you actually have something to say your words and "arguments" mean nill. Mostly because there is no argument.
|
Peek Aboo
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 11:24:00 -
[13]
Another gate-camper complaining about how it's soooo difficult... I don't have 100% successs...  wwwaaaa!!!
I thought this game was supposed to be a challenge? Is sitting in a battleship podding frigate pilots really a challenge?
Double MWDs are a real handicap for anything other than going fast. That's penalty enough.
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 11:29:00 -
[14]
Quote:
Another gate-camper complaining about how it's soooo difficult... I don't have 100% successs... wwwaaaa!!!
I thought this game was supposed to be a challenge? Is sitting in a battleship podding frigate pilots really a challenge?
Double MWDs are a real handicap for anything other than going fast. That's penalty enough.
Get a clue and learn to read. Or get a clue and get in touch with our group of people. But most importantly; get a clue...
|
1FSTCAT
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 11:33:00 -
[15]
Edited by: 1FSTCAT on 05/04/2004 11:34:29
sorry I say tough to you If the pilot chooses a multi MWD frigate to run the blockade good on him sounds like he has gone to a lot of trouble to avoid you
Just nail the indy pilot behind him like every one else does or the cruiser or the battle ship or the shuttle anyway just use a smart bomb or maybe a mine field
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 11:36:00 -
[16]
I'm not talking about dual MWD frigates here - I just saw a Thorax whip by us without even having issues with it. I've seen several BS do the same...
|
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 11:39:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Quote:
Another gate-camper complaining about how it's soooo difficult... I don't have 100% successs... wwwaaaa!!!
I thought this game was supposed to be a challenge? Is sitting in a battleship podding frigate pilots really a challenge?
Double MWDs are a real handicap for anything other than going fast. That's penalty enough.
Get a clue and learn to read. Or get a clue and get in touch with our group of people. But most importantly; get a clue...
That's like asking a rock to grow a brain.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 11:50:00 -
[18]
Doing some gate campping - Eh, Nightfang? 
hehehheh i thot so 
-------------------------------------------
|
Zonia
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 11:59:00 -
[19]
As I see it if you fit your ship to run blockades and get from point A to point B you SHOULD be very difficult to kill, it¦s not like your going to do anything else on your 3MWD Vigil than run like hell. A multi-MWD ship is utterly useless in anything but running, so it should be quite good at it.
|
Cleric
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 12:00:00 -
[20]
You might as well just tell everyone to never venture out into 0.0 space without a fleet of ships as escort
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 12:03:00 -
[21]
I agree that someone set up for running should be hard to catch, but not impossible.
Multiple MWD frigates are easy to catch, it's just a matter of how many slots on a battleship you dedicate for smartbombs.
As it is now EVE might as well have a consentual PvP-system, because you cannot catch someone not wanting to. This goes both ways and dual MWD is one of the problems in why this is so...
|
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 12:18:00 -
[22]
Use 2 Interceptors / Frigs, camp for warpers not jumpers.
With decent skills you can run 1 MWD indefinately so keep it always on even while waiting, that way you can pounce on the target as soon as he decloacks.
Immediately hit him with a total of +4 warp scramble. That should be 1 med slot for each Frig. You have just secured 25 secs. Slap a web on him just in case he didn't ingite his mwds immediately. Now Mwd lasts for 10 secs. Thats roughly 2 bursts every scramble. Most Double MWDers will run out of cap after 2 bursts. You could also opt for +2 warp jam and more webbing str.
Now in most cases the Double Mwder will probably have started aligning for warp, if he is not experienced and the warp jamming is enough he'll probably be on auto and his ship will start to stop, in this case his is snared. The designated hitter/s starts hitting, even one web prevents him from accelerating fast enough (compared to the frigs) and even if he does try the frigs / intercepts can stay close enough for him to get another scramble in.
You could forgoe webbing entirely and simply jam and match speed until his cap gives in. But i believe web also creates more panic. Stiletto's are the best ship for this role. 4 slots could be used for 2 MWD, 1 web, 1 +2 warp scrambler (Needs Micro Aux Power Core). Or 1 Mwd 2 web 1 scrambler.
If he is smart he 'll run back to the gate and try to head back. Unfortunately there isn't much you can do about this except from jumping back as well and trying to do the same thing. Bad thing is he can rinse and repeat for as long as he likes cause of the 1 minute cloak.... gives him time to recharge cap. Alternatively your target can try and kill the frigs.
Of course this is involves much more work that the simple LOCK TARGET , F1-6 , ALT-F1, scoop cargo can, but you wanted a counter and here it is.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 12:23:00 -
[23]
No offense, juan, but please READ the points I've been trying to make.
You're all right about your gatecamping tactics, but I already know them. This wasn't a "how do I catch people at a gate"-post, this was a post adressing the issue of people being able to travel from point A to point B 20 kms further away *before* an indefinate amounts of webs can do anything about it.
If we catch them jumping in they can MWD back to safety from where they came. If they come warping in, they MWD to safety.
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 12:25:00 -
[24]
How about this for a simple trick:
Park a couple of derelict industrials at the point where ships come out of warp at the next gate. Indies are sticky and stop battleships dead
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 12:36:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 05/04/2004 12:38:53
Quote:
If we catch them jumping in they can MWD back to safety from where they came.
If the target is cautious, smart and fast enough to react like this and get away then he deserves to. Honestly how many actually turn back?
You still have the upper hand though cause obviously his goal of passing through your system has not been achieved, and apparently he is aware that he can't pass. So you can spend a 100 isk and offer him a nice "pay me and you pass" deal.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Alowishus
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 12:42:00 -
[26]
First, just because you can't catch them doesn't mean it's impossible.
Second, are you asking CCP to make it so that nobody can get away from you ever? What makes you think you are so special?
Going back to the first thought, if you chase them long enough they won't have any cap left and they will be a sitting duck. But, damn, that might require some effort!
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Valeria
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 13:24:00 -
[27]
LOL Juan, and then he releases drones and fires a volley of FoF at you. Get a clue please.
I would write a long post here explaining why more than one MWD needs to go and you can use AB if you really need to go faster, and why warp core stabilizers need to be made activated modules again, and why warp distruption range needs to be increased to 30km in order to compensate for EVERYONE using instajump bookmarks. But I won't because i've already cancelled my accounts. 
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 13:30:00 -
[28]
Quote:
First, just because you can't catch them doesn't mean it's impossible.
Second, are you asking CCP to make it so that nobody can get away from you ever? What makes you think you are so special?
Going back to the first thought, if you chase them long enough they won't have any cap left and they will be a sitting duck. But, damn, that might require some effort!
Let me explain something to you - which, I supposed till now, was basic knowledge.
IF I web them and they dual-MWD away, I CANNOT follow them because gate won't allow me. By then they will have replenished their cap threefold.
If I DON'T web them, we're not really doing anything, are we?
You're better than most, because you - at least - could read. But think twice before writing...
|
SKiNNiEH
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 13:31:00 -
[29]
First let 'em fix the whole "why pirates always win" thing, and then we can talk about the fitting of MWD's.
Multiple MWD's is for going from station to station, if you insist on camping choke points then you have to live with people using more MWD's. Else, might i suggest going deeper into 0.0 for a change and search around in belts... Oops i forgot, pirates are lazy.
-------
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 13:44:00 -
[30]
Petty people turn this into a "pirates are lazy" thread. Others realise this does not only affect pirates but also pirate hunters and corp warfare mercenaries...
As well as regular corps doing warfare in other alliance's space.
Look beyond the fact that *I* am a pirate and observe the whole picture, please?
|
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 13:50:00 -
[31]
Quote:
LOL Juan, and then he releases drones and fires a volley of FoF at you. Get a clue please.
Where did you see me say that the target has no way of countering or responding to the threat? I merely stated that he is snared.
If you are so cluefull you would have realised that most MWD frigs used for such purposes go faster than FoF's which are the slowest of missiles, of course you might need to manually navigate just a bit but i can see how this can be beyong you.
Nor did i suggest you can camp with 2 frigs only.
If you have a good hitter/s you can take down a Gal cruisers (The ones that have enough drones) before the first cycle of warp scrambler ends.
In the case of a BS you can still opt to stay and warp jam for another cycle and try to warp afterwards or sacrifice the frig. Depends on how efficient your hitters are, if you think you can buy em enough time by staying. After all you are trying to hold down a BS with a Frig what did you expect a walk in the f*cking park?
The only thing you are right about are the BMs.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
SKiNNiEH
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 14:04:00 -
[32]
Quote:
Petty people turn this into a "pirates are lazy" thread. Others realise this does not only affect pirates but also pirate hunters and corp warfare mercenaries...
As well as regular corps doing warfare in other alliance's space.
Look beyond the fact that *I* am a pirate and observe the whole picture, please?
This is where you are wrong.. I want everyone to have the same oppertunities as the next man/woman. This post about MWD's is just something that needs to be addressed when they balance out everything you describe in your "why pirates always win" post.
You might call me a petty person, but your timing to nerf MWD's is way off.
-------
|
Czekiit Layduur
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 14:30:00 -
[33]
You could always go to an EnB style of fittings for the med slots. Only allowing one of a particular "class" of item to be installed.
i.e. Only 1 MWD, 1 AB, 1 Shield Booster, etc.
Oh wait!
Then you couldn't use multiple webs/disruptors!
|
Amira
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 14:41:00 -
[34]
Quote:
Petty people turn this into a "pirates are lazy" thread. Others realise this does not only affect pirates but also pirate hunters and corp warfare mercenaries...
As well as regular corps doing warfare in other alliance's space.
Look beyond the fact that *I* am a pirate and observe the whole picture, please?
Your problem, Nightfang, may be that you respond to every criticism with defensive counterbatteries. You have effectively hijacked your own post by your constant hostility towards everyone disagreeing with you.
I, for instance, am not posting here because I care whether one can use 2 MWDs or not. As long as rules are evenly applied to everyone, they become a neutral adversary. I am posting here because I think your tendency to personally insult everyone who disagrees with you is patently rediculous, and it's worth two minutes of my workday to tell you so.
-----------------------------------------------
"The Spartans ask not how many, but where they are." -Agis II of Sparta
'Valor is the contempt of death and pain.' -Tacitus |
khainestar
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 14:50:00 -
[35]
Edited by: khainestar on 05/04/2004 14:53:17
Edited by: khainestar on 05/04/2004 14:51:55
Before this thread get locked for turning into a flame fest I would like to say that the skill idea for multi-mwd is a good idea.
Quote:
Althought I'd rather see a solution like a new skill along the lines of:
Rank 5; Advanced warp field control ( you get the idea )
Skill at alligning stacked warp fields allows usage of a second mwd at a -100% effect penalty 10% effect of a 2nd mwd per level.
Requirements:
lvl 4 acceleration control
lvl 4 high speed maneuvering
So at lvl 1 that 2nd mwd would give a 50% speed boost and at most at lvl 5 250%. That would still give people the option to use it, but it would come much less easily, and only those really dedicated to getting away would use a 2nd mwd and train to get a serious effect from it. And 3 mwds would be impossible.
It wouldn't stop the genuine run like hell players and people that really don't want to be caught. But it would stop the casual player from dropping multi mwd on a cruiser and running rings around pirates at the gates.
Yes I know that bounty hunters use multi mwd too and so do other people. I use 2 mwd on a blackbird just for fast travel.
By the way I am not a pirate. I just think its a good idea.
/me grabs flameproof undies and dives under the table
edit: pwnd by bbcode
edit : spelling mistkaes
-----------------------------------------------------
Pain. Looks great on other people. Its what there for. |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 15:09:00 -
[36]
Quote:
Your problem, Nightfang, may be that you respond to every criticism with defensive counterbatteries. You have effectively hijacked your own post by your constant hostility towards everyone disagreeing with you.
I, for instance, am not posting here because I care whether one can use 2 MWDs or not. As long as rules are evenly applied to everyone, they become a neutral adversary. I am posting here because I think your tendency to personally insult everyone who disagrees with you is patently rediculous, and it's worth two minutes of my workday to tell you so.
Read the whole thread again, amira, then please quote me one instance of constructive criticism to my complaint which I have replied to in a hostile manner.
Unconstructive comments, ignorance and pure trolling/downgrading because of my in-game character I respond to in the most hostile manner I can. It's the best way to get rid of the trolls, really...
It's still an important issue, because it's one of the cornerstones in the ruined PvP climate in EVE. The two others are, in my opinion instajump bookmarks and safespots. One of which will be adressed when Black Ops frigates come, the other which can be circumvented with some effort...
|
SLIM
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 15:28:00 -
[37]
Seems like whining to me. If he can't stack 2x mwd, why should you be allowed to stack two webs?
Furthermore, I don't buy this 2km/s thing if he only had 2x mwds on. If you had any sort of decent webbers on, they'd web for at least 85%. So .15x.15x.15=.3375 PERCENT top speed. A cruiser can reasonably go 5km/s with one burst of dual mwds. Guess what, that's 16m/s. Even counting that he accelerated to a decent speed before you webbed him, he shouldnt have been going 2km/s when he hit the gate. With three MWDs, its very possible (still speculative) that he got up to a good speed before you webbed him. However, 3 MWDs cuts your cap more than in half (42%), that's a huge penalty.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is, get another interceptor and more webs, or be more creative. Just because you have one ship with 3 webs doesnt mean you should get guaranteed kills
---------------------------
|
Ithildin
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 15:29:00 -
[38]
No, you don't respond to trolls and flamers. Eventually they'll tire and go away. Don't feed the troll.
Now, to the point.
Nightfang, the way I see it you have but one thing you can seriously ask of the Micro Warp Drives: that they boost to the ships basic speed, and not to the ships current speed.
This would make MWDs much less a speed trip, and could allow us to do away with most of the cap and shield killing drawback.
Why your post hit such fierce opposition:
I tried cramming 3 MWD and 2 AB into a dominix. This killed my capa. I managed to barely get everything going, and after slightly less than 10 seconds I had hit 21000 meters per second. My capa was dead, and my shield was FUBAR.
Fitting MWD makes you loose 25% shield and capa. That's not healthy. You sacrifice a lot.
On a different note: how are blaster/autocannon boats supposed to close in on prey fast enough? A Megathron with only one MWD is about as fast as an interceptor without Navigation skill.
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 15:33:00 -
[39]
Quote:
No, you don't respond to trolls and flamers. Eventually they'll tire and go away. Don't feed the troll.
Now, to the point.
Nightfang, the way I see it you have but one thing you can seriously ask of the Micro Warp Drives: that they boost to the ships basic speed, and not to the ships current speed.
This would make MWDs much less a speed trip, and could allow us to do away with most of the cap and shield killing drawback.
Why your post hit such fierce opposition:
I tried cramming 3 MWD and 2 AB into a dominix. This killed my capa. I managed to barely get everything going, and after slightly less than 10 seconds I had hit 21000 meters per second. My capa was dead, and my shield was FUBAR.
Fitting MWD makes you loose 25% shield and capa. That's not healthy. You sacrifice a lot.
On a different note: how are blaster/autocannon boats supposed to close in on prey fast enough? A Megathron with only one MWD is about as fast as an interceptor without Navigation skill.
Shows what you know my blasterthron is quite speedy on a single mwd. And I really really really don't want to see a mwd on every combat ship, that would be the end of close range combat, period.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 15:52:00 -
[40]
---> Slim, you yourself pointed out he probably hit the MWD's just prior to me hitting the webs. The problem, which will always remain in this situation, is that he will always be able to hit those MWD's no matter how fast or how many interceptors you got out there. This is because of the delay the agressor faces as he needs to target his prey and hit the webs, so even if targetting time is only half a second - that's still half a second the other guy has to fire his MWD's and WILL fire his MWDs.
The next problem is that no matter how many webs the guy has on him, his speed will lower itself in a fixed deceleration. Even if we have ten or twenty webs on him - he will get away as long as he's gotten that initial momentum. And as it is now, he always gets it.
---> Ithildin, a Blasterthron with a dual MWD was dead before he even warped into the fight. Two MWD bursts kills the capacitor completely, granted, but the problem is that it's a foolproof way to successfully escape any blockade without the need for either bookmarks or anything else.
It's too easy. As long as it is this way, there is no way there are gonna be any succesful territorial claims for any alliances. Every enemy BS can just strap on two MWD's, zoom past the defenders' blockade without any trouble, and then refit for combat in the heart of the enemy's region.
It really needs to go - for pirates/alliance fighters/pirate hunters alike...
|
SKiNNiEH
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 16:06:00 -
[41]
Nightfang, in your example of your initial post, what was the guy you triplewebbed flying?
-------
|
Tribunal
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 16:07:00 -
[42]
Quote:
I'd like to see a removal of the ability to fit two or more microwarpdrives.
As others have said, people sacrifice large amounts of shield and cap to fit two MWDs. Do you sacrifice cap and shield to use the webers? Didn't think so. Things are balanced just fine, maybe one of these days you will get an Eve where the "pirates always win".
|
Sphalerite
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 16:15:00 -
[43]
I agree that multiMWD setups are a pain, but I don't think that a 1 module only rule or a stacking nerf beyond the standard one is the way to go.
Some other solutions would be...
1. Tweak with inertia for webs, MWDs and ship sizes. I always thought that webs should be like driving into a lake. Big or small, its going to stop your car pretty quick.
2. An anti MWD module. as opposed to a web, it would turn off the MWD totally. give it a longer range than webs. this might cause problems with blaster setups and the like... maybe make it class specific i.e. 100MN anti-MWD.
3. Longer range warps and webs. to balance them, make the webs less effective, and the warp jammers less points. I suppose we'd have to up the points on the other ones, and up the points on the stabs to do this. should be done anyway.
Any of these could help with multiMWD ships without adding specific rules for specific modules that confuse the hell out of newbies and make things a pain to keep straight.
|
Ronyo Dae'Loki
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 16:21:00 -
[44]
Quote:
Nightfang, in your example of your initial post, what was the guy you triplewebbed flying?
I'd like to know that too... Someone told me it was one of my guys, and if it was then it made my day. I find it kinda funny.
-------------
My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants.
I <3 ( . Y . ) |
Shatza
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 16:41:00 -
[45]
yes it was me, nice try nightfang... ill c u soon :)
|
Alowishus
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 17:34:00 -
[46]
Quote:
IF I web them and they dual-MWD away, I CANNOT follow them because gate won't allow me.
So don't web them right away. Hey just because you want to camp gates, without ever leaving a system doesn't mean CCP should do whatever you want. You're not a professional killer, you're a simple gate camper, stop acting special.
This is just another "ME ME ME CCP make my life easier ME ME ME" thread. Save it.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
ZzeusS
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 18:10:00 -
[47]
Well, I bought my first 10MN MWD last night, and have yet to go pick it up. Thanks for the tip that I need two :)
|
Dust Puppy
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 19:23:00 -
[48]
I don't like to see any restrictions on what modules and how many of them you can fit but I also think it's stupid that you can make your ship untouchable, other then frigates of course (I fly frigates  ). Isn't the acceleration the biggist problem. That is when you equip multiple mwd you have insane acceleration so when you have targetted the ship it's already at some insane speed?
__________
Capacitor research |
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 19:27:00 -
[49]
Quote:
Quote:
IF I web them and they dual-MWD away, I CANNOT follow them because gate won't allow me.
So don't web them right away. Hey just because you want to camp gates, without ever leaving a system doesn't mean CCP should do whatever you want. You're not a professional killer, you're a simple gate camper, stop acting special.
This is just another "ME ME ME CCP make my life easier ME ME ME" thread. Save it.
Lol I can personally testify Nightfang ain't a simple gate camper. You might not like his profession, but he's pretty damn good at what he does.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Alowishus
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 19:45:00 -
[50]
What he is asking for is that nobody have any chance of escape from him ever. That would be the same as if I asked to have an Indy that nobody could catch, ever.
Wish in one hand and **** in the other, see which one fills up first.
Even with two MWD the person is catchable, catch them when they enter a system and not when they are leaving. Use your Interceptor to lock them fast, use missiles to missalign their ship so they can't go to warp, then scramble and web them. If you have the firepower you can destroy them in less than two minutes. When they are leaving a system, well that's a different story. So one gets away. Who cares? Getting ****ed and asking CCP to change something to make your life easier is pretty lame.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Cao Cao
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 19:48:00 -
[51]
I agree with this. If MWD is such a power-hungry and fitting-hungry module, how is it possible to fit two? Also it imbalances what is supposed to be a limit on what top speeds you can reach . . . battleships accelerating to 4km/sec within 5 seconds is kinda ridiculous.
|
Cirle
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 20:14:00 -
[52]
Quote:
I agree with this. If MWD is such a power-hungry and fitting-hungry module, how is it possible to fit two? Also it imbalances what is supposed to be a limit on what top speeds you can reach . . . battleships accelerating to 4km/sec within 5 seconds is kinda ridiculous.
... as is a frigate having enough power output to stop the engines of a battleship. So actually, people should be arguing for battleships to not actually be altered by webs if you remove the second mwd, as they can just plow straight through you...
Cirle |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 20:29:00 -
[53]
SkinnieH - the guy in question was piloting a Thorax. And no, Shatza, it was not you - you passed us with a single MWD (at least I think) when no one was even there to try and web you - just a Scorpion following you in your warptrail and me in an indy at the gate you arrived picking up a secure container a Dreamscape ship had dropped...
I see alot of arguments referring to that it's balanced because you can fit multiple webs and that the MWD give serious cap/shield penalties.
Any ship fitting a single web takes a great risk - for the pilot does so sacrificing a medslot which can be used for a hardener (or other hardcore combat module). Any ship fitting two or more webs is greatly hampered combat-wise. Therein lies the balance and penalty with multiple webs.
Any ship fitting multiple MWD's faces shield and cap problems. Shields won't be an issue since the pilot isn't aiming for combat anyhow - and if he does get shot (at a gate, since we're assuming one fits dual MWD for travel) he won't get shot at long enough to sustain any real damage to speak of. The cap isn't a problem either - fit a few cap relays and your recharge is all back to normal. Fit a few cap batteries or a cap booster and you are back to full capacity.
Hence you have a module which, when used in dual mode, renders you in travel godmode. The only penalties you suffer are related to a completely different situation in the EVE universe.
And that's a cheap price to pay for immortality, isn't it? If it really ain't, as so many people claim, how come most people use it?
|
Meridius
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 20:32:00 -
[54]
Quote:
I agree with this. If MWD is such a power-hungry and fitting-hungry module, how is it possible to fit two? Also it imbalances what is supposed to be a limit on what top speeds you can reach . . . battleships accelerating to 4km/sec within 5 seconds is kinda ridiculous.
It's less ridiculous when you notice that they have given up 50% of there shield an capacity to get to those speeds.
Putting on 2MWD's comes with a huge penalty, i think its fair as is. I travel a lot in 0.0 with 2mwds, but its just for travelling. Getting to a gate with 1x mwd takes around 10-12sec, with 2mwd it takes around 3.
It would be utter **** if they disabled the use of 2x mwd. If you are a good respectable pirate then quit your *****ing if a frigy gets away, go after some cruisers or bs's. I don't mean to insult you but maybe you need to be a little less self-centered. Travelling is boring as hell, what you are proposing will make it even worse 
You say that instajumps are no problem for you. There is no way you can get me if i land right at the gate and if you meant you chase them to the exit point then maybe you should start camping there instead.
I dunno, i just think this whole idea is ****.
________________________________________________________
|
Tribunal
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 20:45:00 -
[55]
Quote:
Any ship fitting a single web takes a great risk - for the pilot does so sacrificing a medslot which can be used for a hardener (or other hardcore combat module). Any ship fitting two or more webs is greatly hampered combat-wise. Therein lies the balance and penalty with multiple webs.
Last time I checked a MWD uses a medium slot as well. So, your point is moot.
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 20:54:00 -
[56]
No, since that ship has no intention of going into combat. The one with a web does. He also risks facing opponents where that/those webs are a waste.
|
Ithildin
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 21:00:00 -
[57]
Quote:
No, since that ship has no intention of going into combat. The one with a web does. He also risks facing opponents where that/those webs are a waste.
Exactly, but the one with the MWD is trying to make a 59 jump journey in very unsecure space something less than a boring baby-sitting exercise or a go-to-church-and-pray and then turn on the AP to do something else.
You cannot look at it from your way ONLY. There is a guy on the other end, too. Might even be a woman. He or she might have reasons OTHER than avoiding PvP situations to fit MWD. Believe me, 59 jumps take a LONG time. I don't do it without double MWDs, no way!
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 21:06:00 -
[58]
I really can't see "it's boring" as a legit reason, I'm sorry. Especially not since it has such a great impact on other aspects of the game.
Mining is boring too. Agent missions are boring too. That doesn't mean we need insta-buttons which fills your ship with refined rare minerals, and as a side-effect, gives you +400% extra cargohold.
Generally I agree - one should make the game as little tedious as possible. But there HAS to be other ways...
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 21:21:00 -
[59]
Sorry, Nightfang, but all of your comments re: "I'm sacrificing my safety by equipping 2 webbers in order to cath someone who is setup to run (paraphrased)" are very strange.
If someone is setup to run with 2 mwd's you're not going to be in much danger, are you?
Link this with your recent post about "Pirates always winning" and it just sounds like you want your cake and you want to eat it.
I dislike double-MWD'ers as much as anyone but I think you need to try harder and be more innovative.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 21:29:00 -
[60]
Difference in my particular case if I'm gate camping is that if I have two webs equipped I face the threat of being jumped by someone all-boosted for combat, in which case I will die.
BUT, that's not the point. That was merely an example of why it wouldn't be all imbalanced to allow ships to still carry multiple webs yet disallow multiple MWD/nerf acceleration by having them dual.
If it's purely a balance question of MWD/webs - then by all means, impose a one-web-per-ship-limit as well. It would be alot better than the way it is now.
/Nightfang
|
Tribunal
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 21:33:00 -
[61]
Quote:
No, since that ship has no intention of going into combat. The one with a web does. He also risks facing opponents where that/those webs are a waste.
There is more to combat then webing and shooting the enemy. I know a few people who scout with more then one MWD for gangs/fleets. Not everyone is fitted for speed just to evade blockades.
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 21:35:00 -
[62]
Quote:
Quote:
No, since that ship has no intention of going into combat. The one with a web does. He also risks facing opponents where that/those webs are a waste.
There is more to combat then webing and shooting the enemy. I know a few people who scout with more then one MWD for gangs/fleets. Not everyone is fitted for speed just to evade blockades.
Frigates fit this role perfectly without the need for a feature posing this much of a problem.
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 21:36:00 -
[63]
Quote:
Difference in my particular case if I'm gate camping is that if I have two webs equipped I face the threat of being jumped by someone all-boosted for combat, in which case I will die.
How terrible it is that you could possibly face a slight risk when you're out a-gankin'
Anyway, if someone who is all boosted for combat uncloaks he'll generally target you and open fire. You still have the option of jumping through the gate (assuming, of course, that you sit right at the gate so that all ships appear within 15km of you, like most campers do) and get away.
2 MWD's carries a much greater penalty than 2 webbers, that is a fact.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 21:39:00 -
[64]
Quote:
2 MWD's carries a much greater penalty than 2 webbers, that is a fact.
Agreed. But the issue of balance between webs/MWD's is still not the main point. The issue of webs being totally uneffective against duals are...
As someone said, it's due to acceleration. Make acceleration sensible and we have a perfect solution. That way it would be hard to accomplish enough webbing, but doable.
|
Dust Puppy
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 21:49:00 -
[65]
oooh am I that someone?
I don¦t really know how the acceleration to top speed works. Do you just have some fixed time like 10 seconds to reach top speed.
If that¦s the case then a ship with 100 max velocity fitting a mwd giving 500% acceleration would have the acceleration.
100x5/10 = 50m/s2
but a ship with dual mwd¦s would have
100x5x5/10 = 250m/s2
If that is the case then the acceleration is 5 times more and I¦m just thinking that maybe the acceleration should add but not multiply.
Ah well just a thought flame me at will 
__________
Capacitor research |
Turin
|
Posted - 2004.04.05 22:47:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Turin on 05/04/2004 23:00:16
Quote:
Quote:
NO. Reasons:
Nr 3) and 4). If a gatecamping party has taken such massive steps to stop people at a gate - they should be able to stop people at a gate. Pirates, anti-pirates and privateers alike.
So, by that line of thinking, those people who take massive efforts to NOT get stopped... shouldnt.
Cant look at it both ways, sorry. All I see here is a bunch of whining.
|
Alowishus
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 05:45:00 -
[67]
The ironic thing is that I have seen a gate camper use dual MWD. You sit 60km+ off and when the battleships come through you ignore them, they ignore you, but when an indy uncloaks you lock, MWD over, scramble and let the missiles fly.
This isn't about a profession. This is about one person whining about a bad experience they had.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Kendo Nagis
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 06:16:00 -
[68]
I can see what you're on about, to a degree Nightfang, but that is the idea of a Micro Warp Drive.
It is designed to give an Imense boost of speed for a short time.
Admitadly, it should take a bit longer to get upto max speed, cap alowing.
If they now do as you want and make it so you can only fit 1, and then stop you from fitting more than 1 web, it's still not going to stop them getting bye.
The way you're describing it, you where sat there trying to slow them down on your own. In that case, no you won't stop them, that's the idea.
No one wants to loose a ship or valuable cargo, so they will try anything to keep it!
If you had 2 or even 3 frigates fitted with 2 webs each, all targeted at that ship, chasing it, then I'm sure 6 webs would have brought it to a speed that the gunship could cope with?
Hell they should be able to make it stop almost dead in it's tracks no?
__________________________
"Death before dishonour, so long as it doesnÆt cost too much." |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 06:43:00 -
[69]
Quote:
So, by that line of thinking, those people who take massive efforts to NOT get stopped... shouldnt.
Agreed. Problem now is people who want to to that, does not have to take on massive steps. They just smack on a dual MWD. There's more people doing this than not doing it, which proves how "massive" this way is...
Quote:
The ironic thing is that I have seen a gate camper use dual MWD. You sit 60km+ off and when the battleships come through you ignore them, they ignore you, but when an indy uncloaks you lock, MWD over, scramble and let the missiles fly.
This isn't about a profession. This is about one person whining about a bad experience they had.
I've stated several times this isn't about profession. Thank you for your example which proves why all PvP parties would be better off without this.
Quote:
The way you're describing it, you where sat there trying to slow them down on your own. In that case, no you won't stop them, that's the idea.
No one wants to loose a ship or valuable cargo, so they will try anything to keep it!
I was in a Stiletto fitted with three webs/MWD. Which means I was not alone - I was doing what you described should work, but the thing is as it is now, it doesn't and never will.
This is because people accelerate too damn fast before any number of webs can kick in.
|
Drogon
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 08:00:00 -
[70]
omg why not just have everyone give all their stuff to you ... here's a concept: SOME PEOPLE DONT WANT TO FIGHT!!!
if they out smart you and keep you from shooting them then get smarter ... i mean ive read your posts about how pirates always win and you think that people that use WCS are sissy and shouldnt ... some people dont like to fight and would perfer not to lose all the stuff they have ... this game is not just about PvP ... im sick of hearing pirates gripping about how hard they have especially those ones that say they want to fight but run the second a force that is equal to theirs enters system. if you want to fight then fight
if you want to pirate then learn how to ... until then STFU!!!
Director, Divine Retribution
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 08:14:00 -
[71]
Quote:
omg why not just have everyone give all their stuff to you ... here's a concept: SOME PEOPLE DONT WANT TO FIGHT!!!
if they out smart you and keep you from shooting them then get smarter ... i mean ive read your posts about how pirates always win and you think that people that use WCS are sissy and shouldnt ... some people dont like to fight and would perfer not to lose all the stuff they have ... this game is not just about PvP ... im sick of hearing pirates gripping about how hard they have especially those ones that say they want to fight but run the second a force that is equal to theirs enters system. if you want to fight then fight
if you want to pirate then learn how to ... until then STFU!!!
You need to calm down and get a grip
|
SKiNNiEH
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 08:19:00 -
[72]
Maybe the only way to defeat a double MWD'er is to be in its path with interceptors and blast him/her when the ship rumbles past. Gatecampers that (has to) utilize something other than a Battleship sounds like a good development to me.
-------
|
Gher
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 08:26:00 -
[73]
Want my honest opinion? quit killing people in frigs just trying to get around. What is honestly the point of killing frigates? are they gonna mine your ore or destroy your battleships? No some people would just LIKE to see 0.0 space go deep and explore, they couldn't dream of taking their cruisers or bs there though because lamers like you so they use frigates, so leave the frigs alone you get nothing from killing a frig at all, no ransom, no great modules.. nothing but another ****ed off player who hates you and possibly the game now, thanks! |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 08:31:00 -
[74]
I agree with you that gatecamping should be forced into a more tactical thing, SkinnieH.
The example I am referring to happened like this. Me (Stiletto) and two corpmates (Scorpion/Megathron respectively) were camping a gate. The Megathron was set out for all firepower, the Scorpion for moderate tanking but also with two webs and a few warp scramblers. My Stiletto had three webs + mandatory MWD.
A Thorax warps in - the second I can I have it targetted and hit all three webs. This happened without any delay other than those imposed by game mechanics (short invul timer + lock time).
Nonetheless the Thorax had already gained enough momentum to safely zoom past at a clocked 2km/s at one instance. His speed was dropping from the several webs, but the momentum he had gained was enough and always is enough, even with an indefinate amount of webs.
This has happened on several other occasions under similar circumstances, give or take some instances.
The only plausible way of stopping that acceleration is that of exploit. Even if I position a battleship in the other ships flight path he will, by the momentum gained, bounce slightly off course and continue to the gate.
The plausible way I'm speaking off is that of anchoring a few cans in the flight path. That would probably stop the ships in their tracks, MWD, dual MWD or no MWD.
But we don't exploit nor will we to. That's why I'm arguing about it here instead... and will continue to do so till I enough sensible arguments other than "You're a frikkin pirate" or "People get bored without dual MWD".
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 08:33:00 -
[75]
Quote:
Want my honest opinion? quit killing people in frigs just trying to get around. What is honestly the point of killing frigates? are they gonna mine your ore or destroy your battleships? No some people would just LIKE to see 0.0 space go deep and explore, they couldn't dream of taking their cruisers or bs there though because lamers like you so they use frigates, so leave the frigs alone you get nothing from killing a frig at all, no ransom, no great modules.. nothing but another ****ed off player who hates you and possibly the game now, thanks!
This post isnt' about frigates, as I've stated somewhere among the rants. I have nothing at all against frigates fast speeds, in fact I welcomed that change and still do very warmly. Personally I'm in love with frigates and feel they've finally gotten the balance they deserve, but that's not the matter of discussion.
|
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 08:52:00 -
[76]
Quote:
That's why I'm arguing about it here instead... and will continue to do so till I enough sensible arguments other than "You're a frikkin pirate" or "People get bored without dual MWD".
You got some sensible arguments, yet you completely ingored them. You seem eager to reply to every flame but to my suggestion on how to "BLOCKADE DUAL MWDers" your only reply , apart from an minor insult, was "i was talking about being able to stop a ship dead in it's tracks without it moving for 15km".
You keep talking about Warp-in incidents, when it's easier to grab a dual mwder on the decloak phase. Sure it's not a 100% fail safe procedure but the success % is far greater than trying to get them prior to jump.
Yet you discussed none of my points... offered a glib retort in the lines of "he can mwd back to the gate he came from", and when i answered back with my argument on that responce you completely ignored it.
Of course it's harder more frustrating work to effectively blockade against dual MWDers but how would you expect it to be against people who purposely fit their ships in order to have a chance to run a blockade.
As for your comment that PvP usage of dual mwd is only for AVOIDING PvP, that is also wrong.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Ithildin
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 09:19:00 -
[77]
Do you know what it takes to fit a Thorax properly with two MWD?
Well, to have the MWD running one burst at each gate, you need full compliment of capacitor relays and the last med slot taken by a medium capa battery. You can hardly fit guns that way.
Your one and only defence is speed. You don't have guns, you don't have shields, and you don't have WCS.
Oh my. Smarten up and stop whining. Adapt to the game and use those tactical things given to you. You were sitting at a gate with a stilletto, which means minimum risk for you basically. You had two mates in battlships. Would it be too much to ask if you didn't go on the boards and whine about it and instead got a Warp Inhibitor so that the poor fellow would have to travel 60km instead of 12.5 km to jump?
The guy, in this case, on the recieving end had the only possible setup he could have in a cruiser to run through your blockade. Had it been a battleship, the acceleration would not have been great enough.
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 09:30:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Nightfang on 06/04/2004 09:37:37
Quote:
Do you know what it takes to fit a Thorax properly with two MWD?
Well, to have the MWD running one burst at each gate, you need full compliment of capacitor relays and the last med slot taken by a medium capa battery. You can hardly fit guns that way.
Your one and only defence is speed. You don't have guns, you don't have shields, and you don't have WCS.
Oh my. Smarten up and stop whining. Adapt to the game and use those tactical things given to you. You were sitting at a gate with a stilletto, which means minimum risk for you basically. You had two mates in battlships. Would it be too much to ask if you didn't go on the boards and whine about it and instead got a Warp Inhibitor so that the poor fellow would have to travel 60km instead of 12.5 km to jump?
The guy, in this case, on the recieving end had the only possible setup he could have in a cruiser to run through your blockade. Had it been a battleship, the acceleration would not have been great enough.
Yeah, that would have been a good solution (the warp inhibitor thing) if the warp inhibitors would have actually pulled the ships out of warp. Defacto, they don't.
As to the other point; it ain't hard to strap on a few modules. Risk vs Reward is Sacrificing firepower vs being untouchable. Hardly a tough choice considering you never intended to fight anyhow, is it?
Edit: Battleships are using this method too - and the acceleration *is* fast enough. They sometimes use three MWDs as well, since they usually have the low and medium slots to compensate for the cap problems two, let alone three, would cause...
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 09:35:00 -
[79]
Juan; in your initial serious post you had a few points. Though you yourself stated that:
"If he is smart he 'll run back to the gate and try to head back. Unfortunately there isn't much you can do about this except from jumping back as well and trying to do the same thing. Bad thing is he can rinse and repeat for as long as he likes cause of the 1 minute cloak.... gives him time to recharge cap."
Hence my brief response to that "he can always just run back" was all that was needed, it just repeated what you had said yourself.
You make a few other points, granted, and I can see that you unlike others here actually have experience in the field (or at least imagination enough to picture the situation), BUT the most of your arguments, ie. him trying to warp away/him not hitting the MWD's fast enough, all rely on one thing; that he makes a fatal and deadly mistake.
Combat shouldn't rely solely on the opponent making a fatal mistake, that means it's imbalanced. It's like saying the stacking of damage mods eight months ago isn't imbalanced because sometimes people forgot to fit multiple...
Well, not exactly the same thing, but in the same league
|
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 10:04:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 06/04/2004 10:05:15
You are right, an experienced pilot who uses dual mwds for his travelling loadout can in most cases be caught only after he makes a mistake.
You can play all your cards properly and still lose him.
However i'd rather have this system, in which the Blockader has to take the appropriate measures, loadouts and actions in order to be effective against most types and loadouts coming his ways and the victims must take the nessesary modules and reactions to escape.
Should players be able to fit more than one MWD? Yes. There are other aspects of PvP and other fields that make use of this and it is important imho.
Should webifiers been more effective? Yes. Perhaps not as 100% effective as some of your posts described, or so i perceived it, but they should be beefed to the point where simple hitting ALT-F1+F2 isn't the only reaction required to escape.
Should insta-jump BMs be removed? don't know really. It's always easy to jump ahead of the instajumper once you see him warp in and have a proper go at him. Yet then again the other end of the gate can be 0.5 sec...
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 10:10:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Nightfang on 06/04/2004 10:13:48
We seem to be in agreement, at least in general, Juan. I don't know if I've come off as if though I believe webbers should be more effective, because that has not been my intention. I like webbers the way they are.
The only thing I'm having a real issue with when it comes to the dual MWD issue is that godlike acceleration achieved by them. And that's because it can't be countered even by a huge battlefleet with 15 interceptors all outfitted with the rarest meta loot webbers.
I don't know what uses it has outside of running, for I have never seen them in use for dombat PvP and I can't really imagine they'd do much else than kill their pilot in a setup relying on it. It might have non-PvP roles, granted, but if the issue there is only finding a hidden belt X km from an object, then surely we could do with a more balanced playing field and a lessened acceleration?
Edit: Contrary to what the general populace will have prejudice about, I have nothing about bookmarks. Bookmarks can always be countered by the method you described - catching them on the other side and webbing/scrambling before they can even utilize their next bookmark.
Then again this community is filled with prejudice as soon as a pirate is recognized as a pirate. Take the guy who said he'd read somewhere I despised people using warp core stabilizers. I love that module and use them myself quite often
|
dreddish
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 10:20:00 -
[82]
battleships with 2 x mwd used to fly at 20,000m/s with no cap problems. ccp changed it drastically to around 4-6000 m/s with total cap drain in seconds - it took a massive beat from the nerf bat. Please do not allow our space ships to fly any slower - currently they are slightly better than earth flight speeds.
f16 jet plane = 1500mph
raven = 319 mph
Star trek ships full impulse = 167 million mph !!!!
with 2 x mwd raven gets - 9000mph for a few seconds - any slower and we will need fu*&%^g pedals on these ships!
So i pose the question - why are we flying these sheds!!! yer call this the future - bah
hurry up with tech 5.....
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 10:28:00 -
[83]
Quote:
battleships with 2 x mwd used to fly at 20,000m/s with no cap problems. ccp changed it drastically to around 4-6000 m/s with total cap drain in seconds - it took a massive beat from the nerf bat. Please do not allow our space ships to fly any slower - currently they are slightly better than earth flight speeds.
f16 jet plane = 1500mph
raven = 319 mph
Star trek ships full impulse = 167 million mph !!!!
with 2 x mwd raven gets - 9000mph for a few seconds - any slower and we will need fu*&%^g pedals on these ships!
So i pose the question - why are we flying these sheds!!! yer call this the future - bah
hurry up with tech 5.....
Gameplay balance and in the prolonging enjoyment must come before realism
Agreed, things got a lot better with Castor and the introduction of class-based MWDs. But it's still an issue, just taking a different form. Travelling half way across the galaxy in your bulky battleship should take a long time, in my opinion. Frigates are still the fastest means of travel there is...
|
Xraal I
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 11:07:00 -
[84]
I think of this as a purely political discussion..
Should everyone be able to go everywhere, if they really want to.
Yes or No.
I favor the Yes reply.
As mentioned on the former page, setting up with multiple MWD's cripples most ships ability to do anything else effectively. - I do not like the idea that any one person has the complete power to stop any one other person from going from A to B.
Make it hard, sure, but impossible, no.
CEO - Clan Chief - Diplomat - Trader |
Shirei
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 11:10:00 -
[85]
Quote:
Edited by: Nightfang on 06/04/2004 10:13:48
The only thing I'm having a real issue with when it comes to the dual MWD issue is that godlike acceleration achieved by them. And that's because it can't be countered even by a huge battlefleet with 15 interceptors all outfitted with the rarest meta loot webbers.
Why not just follow your target where he is going? If your target is MWDing towards the gate too fast and you can't stop him in time.. why not just have a few of your ships NOT shoot at him, so they can follow through the gate and lock him down on the other side? His cap should be rather low from 1-2 bursts of 2 MWDs so he should be a sitting duck there, if you bring enough scramblers.
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 11:15:00 -
[86]
Quote:
Why not just follow your target where he is going? If your target is MWDing towards the gate too fast and you can't stop him in time.. why not just have a few of your ships NOT shoot at him, so they can follow through the gate and lock him down on the other side? His cap should be rather low from 1-2 bursts of 2 MWDs so he should be a sitting duck there, if you bring enough scramblers.
I theory, yes, in practice; no. Cap penalties are harsh, but evidently not harsh enough. We've seen ships dual-MWD through at least two systems before he eventually made it to a safespot at the third. There he has all the time in the world recouping his cap...
|
Alex Wolfmain
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 12:35:00 -
[87]
I think some changes need to be made to mwds and the instante accelation but as a whole the setup you are talking about even a bs setup is looking more a blockade runner. in all stages of history and future (sci fi) there is blockade runners i feel here is a time for a new opening for a new ship like in star wars you have an interdictor cruisre creates a cone of warp disapated space. this could be and anser for larger vessels but then frigs and interceptors are desigened for speed.
but in argument agains you nightfang you say that your setup leaves u open for attack bit hard to believe if you are flying an interceptor with mwd you have the req skills for get away quickly and you have the back up of 2 heavys you i doubt would setup with the same rig if you were on your own.
I except both sides of this argument and see both pos and neg and there is a reason for the multi mwd setup and most of the time it is prob blockade running for mission mining which alot of people do so gee every one has a part to play
flame me all you want im new and wont take offence just think there are things that need to be balanced and the game is still young so there is alot of possible things that will be sorted in patches
|
Alowishus
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 15:31:00 -
[88]
My solution would be to introduce a module that breaks the MWD cycle or prevents it from turning on. It would be similar to a warp scrambler (afterall an MWD works in the principals of a warp drive, right?). Then once the cycle is broken the webifier will work better. But this module must come at a heavy cost to the user, morseso than using two MWDs does to the target. I'd like to see the module barely mountable on an Interceptor, thus rendering it useless other than to stop the target ship in it's tracks. Same as how a dual MWD ship is useless for anything other than running blockades.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Kendo Nagis
|
Posted - 2004.04.06 20:58:00 -
[89]
Once they fix those warp disruption field generators, I think you'll find things a little easyer.
They can't pull you out of full warp, but they do create an area wide effect that should prevent someone going to warp while still in the vacinity.
For the incoming pilot, and this does work atm, if he/she warps to 15km point, your disruption field will make them drop out of warp a full 45k+ from the object.
This is depending on the lvl used, but trust me these do work, I've lost a couple of frigs to them :/
__________________________
"Death before dishonour, so long as it doesnÆt cost too much." |
Agent Shield
|
Posted - 2004.04.08 15:23:00 -
[90]
Quote:
battleships with 2 x mwd used to fly at 20,000m/s with no cap problems. ccp changed it drastically to around 4-6000 m/s with total cap drain in seconds - it took a massive beat from the nerf bat. Please do not allow our space ships to fly any slower - currently they are slightly better than earth flight speeds.
Exactly. Talk when the nerf bat swung was to introduce mass to ABs and MWDs so that you only fit one MWD on your ship. But in only using one MWD; you go nowhere very slowly. I remember TomB or someone mention how they were trying to keep the dual MWD setup from running indefinetly, but the change actually forces you to run 2 MWDs if you have lots of travel to do.
I had to reconfigure my cruiser class ships for travel now between all the stations I visit. I now run dual MWD on some and run a battle ship class mwd on one of my main traveler cruisers. Were we supposed to be allowed to run 100mwd on a cruiser? I don't know, but if I have to travel 40 jumps to visit all my stations to see my research guys; I don't want to do it in a slow ship; I need the fast ship to visit them, do the missions, and head back to base. Without it, I don't know if I have time each day to visit those research guys during normal play with my time I have available.
I figure it like this, if someone wants to run 2 MWDs, they already know the penalty imposed for doing so; so let them.
Travel without a dual MWD setup, just plain sucks.
If you don't travel anywhere, then maybe an AB or nothing is fine, but if you do have to travel many jumps daily; you don't want to do it in a slow ship.
Agent Shield |
Neko Makai
|
Posted - 2004.04.09 02:26:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Neko Makai on 09/04/2004 02:28:11
Quote:
What I mean is this; it doesn't matter if I use three webs on a guy and use them almost instantly after he has dropped out of warp at a gate - the effect of multiple MWD's is so powerful not even three webs affecting him before he has gained momentum is enough.
Multiple MWD makes is what makes it impossible to catch people in this game. Bookmarks can be countered, warp core stabilizers can be countered. Multiple MWD's can not.
I welcome you to try it :)
Well ever though of using triple scramblers, where dat Frig gunna run to then XD. i mean really, if u had time to triple web him, u could at least warp scramble him. ALSO, WEBBYS do not do SQUAT against warp times. They reduce speed, yes. But thats it, it doesnt reduce inertia or anything like that. All ship has to do is get up to 50+% his max speed and he is allowed to warp, no matter how slow his max speed is. Webbys are used so frigs dont MWD out of range of ur BS buddies, thats it.
Also u are asking to gank the only thing Frigs have to keep em alive. Thats pretty much the only reason to use a frig is cuz the crazy speed u can get with em, else why not just get a cruiser.
|
Richard Gee
|
Posted - 2004.04.09 02:57:00 -
[92]
Personally I'm looking forward to making a "speed freak" set-up. (I'm almost LVL 4 Nav and AB) It'd stink to have that option removed entirely.
I like what one of the guys said earlier. Making it a skill to have multiple MWD's on a ship. Thereby making it so that those who specialize in speed/running can do so, just like someone who specializes in blockades can do so as well.
Make it more difficult, but not impossible, that's all I'm saying.
Never forget, a Jack-of-all-trades is master of none. |
Drutort
|
Posted - 2004.04.09 07:36:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Drutort on 09/04/2004 07:55:39
so what i hear is that you want it to be that only 1 mwd works or he web's to be as strong... if the web's have to be as strong then in your theory the web's should take away 50% of your cap and eat so much cap that you can only run them for 2-3 cycles...
yes that would be fair balance? i mean 1 web vs 1 mwd? and same penalties on both sides? ah lets see how you like to fit the web on your ship when you know that if you use it and another fleet jumps in you will have no cap to do jack
if you want things == then please at least put some time into some math or so...
you are a gate camper... what does it matter to you what med slots you got? i mean all you need is to stop some poor guy from running and have your friends blast him into million peaces... big deal you take 3 or so mid slots oh but that is all that you take up and no other penalties at all while mwd has insane fitting req and penalties as well as cap usage...
i say at least the weber to stop 1x mwd it should be same class i mean like the 1x 10x 100x meaning that they have that type of fitting req so that you cant use your 1x to stop a 10x mwd
no you want to use 1 type of weber for EVERY MWD TYPE vs ANY SHIP!!!
PLEASE GET A CLUE before posting such threads
The only thing I would agree is that Webbers and mwdÆs need to be balanced but not with the approaches or ways that you have, they are all about ôme me meö
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Drutort
|
Posted - 2004.04.09 07:45:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Drutort on 09/04/2004 07:56:16
AS I already said, the only solution here that would work, IF you wish the webers to be equal to mwdÆs is that you have the class weber sizes just like the mwds
They will come with similar penalties as the mwds.
Its only fair remember some of the lawsà simple ones, and that should be that if someone is using X amount of energy you need simpler Y amount of energy to cancel out
That is the only fair way, to say that if you want to stop someone from escaping that fast and stop them dead in there tracks almost that you need the same energy that they used to counter them, its only logical and many things fallow like this in our universe.
Btw I know that it shouldnÆt be exactly same as a mwd but it should be similar % and they plan to change how ew and other modules work all together so, things would have to be changed later on again.
I do like that idea that if you really want to stop someone it should be like a car driving into a river or something along those lines, that a weber with same matched power should stop a mwd dead in 1-2sec you could use a lesser or 1 step down and have that be of a factor of say 10 so it would take 10-20 sec to stop say a 100mn mwd with a 10 weber.
You know you wouldnÆt like this balance you will say that frigs are completely useless well I say BAH if you want to stop someone you have to pay the price for it as well!! Its not fair I donÆt get to pick my mwd penalties and options either what I fit it is what I get, if you fit a 10mn and someone is in a BS with a 100mn well TOO BAD thatÆs life, get a few ppl with all the 3 types
Only argument is that a weber should be a little bit more efficient and maybe have 25% better efficiency over a mwd in same scale/power.
This solution will work why? Because those who wish to sacrifice and stop ppl in there tracks from escaping will be able to do so just like those who already sacrifice using 2x mwds to avoid combat.
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Drutort
|
Posted - 2004.04.09 07:50:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Drutort on 12/04/2004 07:06:07
To be honest I doubt that pirates would sacrifice something what the travelers sacrifice to stop ppl at gatesà they enjoy the easy road even if a lot of people can escape, they seem to be happy enough to get those ôweakö sheepÆs so to speak.
I only see it to be fair, that they must sacrifice same what the travelers do with there setups, and I think this type of change is long over due, maybe the real pirates will take on this challenge and also take a risk that a fleet could come and pond them to the ground
BTW im sorry but frigÆs to stop a hole battleship is something out of some crazy fantasy role playing game, and in eve it shouldnÆt be, for true pvp things should be balanced out and proper modules as well as ship classes should be used for there advantages and disadvantages.
FrigÆs will still have lots of benefits because a lot of the other modules would be unaffected at all, I know a few that work because there counter parts are just the same in the bonusÆs as the counter parts take away.
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Drutort
|
Posted - 2004.04.12 07:06:00 -
[96]
nobody has anything to say to my suggestions? 
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.12 07:51:00 -
[97]
I think most people did as I did and ignored your last two posts since the first one started off with nothing but heavy ranting...
Cheers!
|
Luc Boye
|
Posted - 2004.04.12 08:09:00 -
[98]
I agree. Remove dual mwd's.
Also remove dual sensor boosters, tac shields, more then 1 gun, drone, launcher, whatever. While at it, remove everything except shuttles.
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
cashman
|
Posted - 2004.04.12 13:00:00 -
[99]
What about frigates with 1x MWD? Remove those too, they are like instant-jump too?
Pirates whining
____________________________________
»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.12 13:25:00 -
[100]
Learn to read, you illiterate numbwit. Then come back and post...
|
Lavrine
|
Posted - 2004.04.12 15:48:00 -
[101]
Quote:
It makes catching prey impossible (from a pirate's point of view)
Seems to me another case of "I want my way of playing EVE made easy!" It's this noisy minority that ruins the game!
So you can't stop dual mwd frigs.. SO WHAT??
You still got: bs, cruisers, indies, shuttles and yes.. frigs with no mwd. You wanna completely blockade a empire space gate? Dream on, buddy.
Don't forget you have an enormous penalty for fitting 2 mwd. Shields are almost inexistant, and cap goes the same way unless you use a cap battery, which not all frigs - and not all players if they dont have skills - can fit.
So don't tell me that you can't stop dual mwd frigs... use your head a bit a you'll see you can stop them
Stop being lazy please, and think.
Your idea to eliminating 2 mwd frigs is none other than your wish to make it possible to kill everything in site trying to pass your camped gate with no chance of escape/passing through. Then you call that pvp and worse, you try to impose it on others. Basically your trying to farm players as players farm npc. lol That's not pvp man, its the same as minning or npc farming.
You want pvp? Then take your cute butt and stroll over to allied protected territories and you'll get all the pvp you want
Now if you talk about the need for skills.. that's already a prerequisite. If the MAJORITY of players think that it's worth making more skills needed to fit more mwd then CCP could go for it. Meanwhile, you should learn to adapt to the game instead of trying to do the other way around.
Thank you
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.12 16:06:00 -
[102]
Now let's talk about where you have mistaken yourself.
Quote:
Quote:
It makes catching prey impossible (from a pirate's point of view)
Seems to me another case of "I want my way of playing EVE made easy!" It's this noisy minority that ruins the game!
So you can't stop dual mwd frigs.. SO WHAT??
I never ever said frigates was an issue. In fact, I said that frigate's ISN'T an issue since there are ways to stop them anyhow.
You still got: bs, cruisers, indies, shuttles and yes.. frigs with no mwd. You wanna completely blockade a empire space gate? Dream on, buddy.
The entire post is about everything being invulnerable due to godlike acceleration when having multiple MWD's, EVEN BS and cruisers. Shuttles and indies have not once been mentioned here, except by you.
Don't forget you have an enormous penalty for fitting 2 mwd. Shields are almost inexistant, and cap goes the same way unless you use a cap battery, which not all frigs - and not all players if they dont have skills - can fit.
No sane person fits dual MWD's to fight, hence shield penalty isn't really a penalty. You get some cap problems, granted, but in comparison you gain utter invulerability from any situation involving you at a gate (which is where you probably are if you are travelling)
So don't tell me that you can't stop dual mwd frigs... use your head a bit a you'll see you can stop them
Stop being lazy please, and think.
Already answered this, no more needed.
Your idea to eliminating 2 mwd frigs is none other than your wish to make it possible to kill everything in site trying to pass your camped gate with no chance of escape/passing through. Then you call that pvp and worse, you try to impose it on others. Basically your trying to farm players as players farm npc. lol That's not pvp man, its the same as minning or npc farming.
This is an issue for both pirate hunters/corp warfare persons or alliances trying to protect their territory alike. I usually don't camp gates, I roam, so I will disregard your ignorance.
You want pvp? Then take your cute butt and stroll over to allied protected territories and you'll get all the pvp you want
Hey! Guess what? I'm not an alliance fleet!
Now if you talk about the need for skills.. that's already a prerequisite. If the MAJORITY of players think that it's worth making more skills needed to fit more mwd then CCP could go for it. Meanwhile, you should learn to adapt to the game instead of trying to do the other way around.
Once again, this is a problem for all. And it only required a few days of training to render you completely invulnerable. Like I want a way to catch people at a gate you people only want a definite way to escape. Read the whole thread and you will agree with me...
Thank you
|
ZzeusS
|
Posted - 2004.04.12 16:11:00 -
[103]
So I give up combat for speed.. you give up speed for combat. What's the problem, again?
You should never be able to catch someone who is fully kitted out for speed and properly prepared. Not miners afk. Not newb frigs. A smart player who does it on purpose. Never.
|
cashman
|
Posted - 2004.04.12 16:21:00 -
[104]
Quote:
Learn to read, you illiterate numbwit. Then come back and post...
Awww, cute. Baby sense that people don't agree, baby go insult. Grow up. Besides, you didn't mention (in your org post) anything about how hard it is to catch a frigate with 1x MWD. Just as hard as catching a cruiser/bs with 2x MWD.
Now talk nice or I'll have to report you.
____________________________________
»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
|
Nightfang
|
Posted - 2004.04.12 16:54:00 -
[105]
Quote:
Quote:
Learn to read, you illiterate numbwit. Then come back and post...
Awww, cute. Baby sense that people don't agree, baby go insult. Grow up. Besides, you didn't mention (in your org post) anything about how hard it is to catch a frigate with 1x MWD. Just as hard as catching a cruiser/bs with 2x MWD.
Now talk nice or I'll have to report you.
Report me all you want. If you would have continued reading the whole post you would have seen that I have absolutely no issues with frigate speeds. Why? Because it's perfectly balanced, numbwit, and because they ain't impossible to catch no matter how many MWD's they fit.
So please stick to the discussion, read the whole thread, make your input or go away. That is, if you can read...
|
cashman
|
Posted - 2004.04.12 17:02:00 -
[106]
1: Please drop the insults.
2: A frigate with 1 MWD can easily go 2000-3000m/s
3: Thats about how fast a BS with 2x MWD goes
4: Frigates take longer to lock than a BS.
How the hell can it then be impossible to catch a BS, when its possible to catch a frigate?
Besides, there must be counters for EW. Scramblers have WCS, 1 for each. Webbers have MWD, 1 for each webber. Right?
ps: reported
____________________________________
»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
|
Drutort
|
Posted - 2004.04.12 17:23:00 -
[107]
Hmm you ppl suck at reading threads, so ill simply my 3 relies in few linesà
Instead of taking away 2x mwd, there is a much simpler solution that is already the popular way to go with class size modules items.
Its simple, make webers to act like mwdÆs but the reverse of them, 1mn web 10 mn web 100 mn webà. They would stop you pretty fast in few sec so that you wouldnÆt be able to get very far, and the same way as you could put a 10mn mwd on your BS but it would do you almost no good the same way it would be for you to try and web a BS with a 10mn weber.
So simple, then ppl cant cry about it because you have to sacrifice almost the same things as a mwd user to stop them, the only acception to the rule I would say make the weber 15% less in requirements and cap usage then a mwd of that class IE 1mn 10mn 100mn
Its logical, if there is a class size item, the counter item must be also a class size counter item, that simple though the counter item cant be 100% effective as the item you are trying to counter THUS counter webers would have say 75-85% efficiency meaning they would req 85% or less of the mwd requirements.
Ok so it was more then just a few lines
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Lavrine
|
Posted - 2004.04.13 11:55:00 -
[108]
Hmmm, you didn't understand what i said, Nightfang...
There is no definate way to "escape",and definately not "god like" or "invulnerable" as you put it. When someone fits for travelling its obvious they will do anything to make it to their destination alive and safe. In this case it means using dual mwd (or more). As i said, i'll agree with you as far as skills are concerned. Some more skills (but not too much) to make players able to fit more than 1 mwd. But that's as far as i'll go.
It's obvious noone will fit 2 mwd for combat. Any setup with more than 1 mwd is very hard (if not impossible) to fight in. Its a travel setup and no more. If they wanted to fight they would fit to fight... But you can't force ppl to fight when they don't want to. They will avoid you with all available means.
And if you were paying attention you would notice that i never said you were part of any alliance. I said go over to allied control space and fight the ppl controlling the territory. You'll gain more from that.
Of course its hard to catch people in a travel setup.. that's what they are trying to do! But it's not full proof. Just a day ago a friend of mine in a dual mwd frig was caught at a gate by a well known pirate corp. It's very possible, so having multiple mwd isn't really an issue as you state in your post. And if u can catch mwd frigs, then you surely can catch BS and cruisers.
But somehow i find it extremely hard to fit more than 2 mwd on a ship. Not everyone can do it.
|
Bozl1n
|
Posted - 2004.04.13 12:34:00 -
[109]
3 Megatrons, all with twin mwd jumped into the system- result 1 pilot in the clone centre, 1 pilot in a pod, 1 pilot left with 31% structure. FE Blockade.
Ur eiather sat the wrong side of the gate
Or ur not very good
http:/eve-coldfusion.com
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |